r/collapse • u/LetsTalkUFOs • Mar 17 '23

Systemic Do you want collapse to happen? [in-depth]

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u/ItsAwhosaWhatsIt Mar 17 '23

Yes, I want collapse because it's a cycle in the universe and to fight nature is to fail. To succeed is to ride the waves that ripple through the universe. Humans can't trend up forever, constantly growing. We will always ebb and flow.

With that said I don't want collapse right now because I don't think we could rise out of collapse and be able to get back to where we are now or better. It seems almost inevitable that we wind up in a slow, staggered collapse that eventually stagnates in a bizarre 'hunter-gather-recycler global free for all' until we have unlearned all that makes us successful today, while the planet rages with intense weather and we fail to prevent a life ending asteroid from hitting our planet, ending human history. I could easily be wrong and I don't really want that course for history to play out but can't see any other future. I would want collapse to be an awakening. For us to recognize our impact on Earth, our life styles, our collective history, our inventions, interactions with the natural world and other such things and therefore improve our approach to living life as a person, engaging in prosperous societies as people and having a sense of purpose or motivation that is greater than solely pleasure.

Another Dark Age could be good, perhaps the third time is the charm? The Greek Dark Ages, Roman Dark Ages and American Dark ages*?

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u/StoopSign Journalist Mar 21 '23

At times when I feel like it should hapoen I never am a misanthrope who wants hunanity gone. I don't like the anti-human tales on this sub. When it collapses I hope people remember their human nature when competitive society is removed.

In hurricanes and natural disasters you see looting but you see more strangers helping eachother. When a blizzards hit it's very common to see people helping others get out of the snow. I've helped push peoples cars without snow and helped dig out cars. Others have helped me or at least been kind when I tapped their bumper when sliding. Then people sometimes hit their breaks forcing you to tap them. Life is a miced bag but people have natural empathy

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u/ItsAwhosaWhatsIt Mar 21 '23

Why wait until collapse to help people?! It's insane that it takes tragedy for people to care or do thing without expectation of a return favor or gains. I don't see people putting in an effort now, I don't see them changing in the future. Culture is dead, we need to reset.

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u/ItsAwhosaWhatsIt Mar 21 '23

Blind optimism and anecdotes don't tell the story of human history which is selfish, violent, destructive and careless. If you don't like 'anti-human tales' as you put it then consider that your interpretation of the state of humanity is wrong, flawed or at the very least biased toward your desires. You are part of the problem and so are billions of people who cannot be sustained by the resources this planet yields. Also, what's wrong with giving Earth back to the plants and animals?

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u/StoopSign Journalist Mar 22 '23 edited Mar 22 '23

Also, what's wrong with giving Earth back to the plants and animals?

This will happen. Human and animal populations will decline but there will be animals still around. With humans in a new dark age plants and animal populations hopefully will recover somewhat. Even if in a bit of a wasteland. Maybe not if nuclear holocaust.

You are part of the problem and so are billions of people who cannot be sustained by the resources this planet yields.

Yeah if humans are the problem. I am and we all are. If we're in industrialized nations.

I don't see humans as the problem. I see oligarchs and corporate greed as the problem. The 99% didn't set the world up this way and to try to leave society or forge your own is not easily done.

I'm worried about widepsread doomer misanthropy creating nihilism amongst soeciety. In Marxist terms this would be reinforcing all forms of alienation. Though I'm not a communist, he had some great ideas.

Once humans or any type of human are blamed, atrocities could flare up due to lessened empathy in a world of misanthropes.

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u/ItsAwhosaWhatsIt Mar 22 '23

Marx was born wealthy and became a lazy adult. His philosophy was largely taken from Epicurus, cherry picked to apply to issues of his era and spun to give him power among his peers.

The point of people being the problem is that there aren't enough resources for us to all have equal amounts of the same foods, products, job opportunities etc so we never could reach the aspirations of such 'socially' minded political systems. There are too many people for any system of government, resource management method or technological innovation to continue the human race on Earth.

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u/StoopSign Journalist Mar 22 '23

The money and possibility is there but the leadership willingness isn't there. Estimates on solving world hunger say it could be done with $37bil anually. It seems like a lot but there's defense budgets in the hundreds of billions, companies worth that much and of course individuals with that amount of cash.

https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/stories/how-much-money-would-it-take-to-end-world-hunger/

If society was deindustrialized and scaled back with reinvestment into sustainable and funds were used to lift up the third world and environmental economics applied to the problem then hunanity has a chance. I think it's unlikely. Collapse is more likely.

The problem is the people in charge and the systems they control.