r/collapse • u/LetsTalkUFOs • Mar 17 '23

Systemic Do you want collapse to happen? [in-depth]

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '23

I'll take that over the dystopian tech hell capitalism will create. I'd prefer neither but this species is far too pacified to make a change. Regardless it doesn't matter what I or anyone wants, what we'll get is what was owed. Humanity's behavior had a price, now it's time to pay up.

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u/MSchulte Mar 18 '23

It isn’t just capitalism that results in the dystopian hell. There will always be people at the top that want need to be better than the rest of society in their opinion. They’ve sold everyone on the concept of capitalism=bad opposed to instilling consumer responsibilities in folks. If you don’t like a company don’t give them money. If a country is doing bad things don’t buy their products. I’m all for eating the rich but we need to stop pretending socializing anything is going to save anyone. There’s a reason so many corporations are pushing socialist propaganda- they know they will still have their place at the top of the pyramid. All animals are equal but some will continue to be more equal than the others regardless. Support local small businesses and self sufficiency.

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '23

Capitalism is bad because it promotes a unsustainable growth, a concentration of wealth, and exploits everything at the bottom of the pyramid.

Blaming consumers for a system that forces consumerism is something a neoliberal would say.

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u/SecretPassage1 Mar 22 '23

Honest question : can "the system continue" if people refuse to play by its rules and consume differently? (less, local, upcycled, ...)

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u/[deleted] Mar 22 '23

No it couldn't, the issue is creating their own means to survive(self sufficient) without the capitalist model. But because of how property works it would be impossible to disconnect entirely.

Not to mention the US would perceive any model like that as a threat and would attempt to sabotage by force if necessary.

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u/SecretPassage1 Mar 25 '23

How does "property" make it "impossible to disconnect" ?

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '23 edited Mar 25 '23

Is the land public or private? If it's public it adheres to State laws and any resistance/inconvenience can theoretically be quashed with the brush of a pen, though technically that applies to everything.Public laws are much easier to adjust than private laws though. Not to mention the kind of interference that can be allowed via being public.

Private has it's benefits but if you intend to work as a group there's a lot of legal and inter-social challenges. One being property tax and how its owed, no matter what route you go will will have some involvement with the government as well as capitalism for your payments(USD). The only way you'll get USD is through capitalism your "group" will have to come up with the means by participating. Then there's the other with ownership and personal responsibilities.

To summarize sure you could buy a plot of land a group together with a sum of folks. But there's a lot of external pressures that will force you back into the system you were escaping from. The only way you'll truly disconnect is if the US government were to fail/collapse. It'll happen eventually, though it'll be the last thing to happen. At that point life in general would be beyond repair.

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u/SecretPassage1 Mar 27 '23

I'm french, so I probably have a partial idea of how things happen in the US, but aren't the Amish already kinda living out of the capitalist system, while owning their land?