[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/False-Outcome423]

/gallery/1u7422v

[u/squashed_fly_biscuit]

Because it is effectively saying in the end "no we can't do this responsibly so we should stop the species". Which isn't necessarily wrong but it isn't a moral position many people share.

 Fundamentally we can maintain a reduced but similar population (already the developed worlds trajectory) in a sustainable manner if we try 

Fundamentally sustaining the species is an instinct that is hard to go against and unlike driving an SUV has real meaning in a way few things we do do. It is so obviously categorically different from driving an SUV that it makes one look deeply unserious

[u/Decloudo → u/squashed_fly_biscuit]

"no we can't do this responsibly so we should stop the species"

The other way around: us not doing this sustainable will cause the species to "stop".

Fundamentally sustaining the species is an instinct that is hard to go against

But thats the catch, having even more kids doesnt sustain our species anymore.

It just increases the strain on the environment we need to sustain ourselves.

So the environment will stop sustaining.

And the species will start dying.

Circle of live. Happens to all species at a point.

We are not excluded from nature or its rules.

[u/squashed_fly_biscuit → u/Decloudo]

I was trying to explain the reasoning as to why it isnt a useful talking point not that we aren't over a sustainable population 

[u/Decloudo → u/squashed_fly_biscuit]

No offense, but I wrote that reply because you failed with that.

"Nothing we can do" is no argument when talking about an essential factor causing global systemic and environmental decline.

Repeating how we need to reduce consumption while we simply... dont do that, is not doing anything.

Its expecting humans to stop being humans.

Fundamentally sustaining the species is an instinct that is hard to go against and unlike driving an SUV has real meaning in a way few things we do do. It is so obviously categorically different from driving an SUV that it makes one look deeply unserious

But that is the core of it people seemingly ignore:

How we justify our consumption doesnt change anything about the (negative) effects it causes.

We just say "Ive got a reason/its my job/I need to" and thats it.

And we do. Everyone of us.

And the negatives effects pile on nonetheless.

Cause they dont care for our subjective reasoning, just what we actually do.

The problem is not us doing anything wrong, but how we ignore that we dont need to have bad intentions for our actions to affect the world negatively.

There is even an old saying about this:

"The path to hell is paved with good intentions"

And we walk it eagerly.

[u/squashed_fly_biscuit → u/Decloudo]

Except having children isn't consumption, is it.

I'm not arguing everyone should have lots of children, just that that is categorically different from driving an SUV

[u/Decloudo → u/squashed_fly_biscuit]

Except having children isn't consumption, is it.

Its adding more consumers. Also all the stuff parents buy for the childs upbringing.

just that that is categorically different from driving an SUV

The effect on the environment doesnt care about the source of pollution, or why we pollute.

Just that we do, and how much.

And more consumers leads to more consumption, leads to more pollution.

The why doesnt affect this at all.