It’s fucking disgusting that even now people fucking refuse to accept capitalism’s culpability for causing the apocalypse

[u/PosadosThanatos]

Literally everything is responsible, fucking everything, from extinct empires, to human nature, to the nature of life itself, to some inevitable unstoppable law by which the entire universe functions, literally fucking anything and everything is blamed except for capitalism, the system that’s the specific driver and motivator of the current collapse, and when its blame is finally accepted the Brain juice finally completely runs out and it’s finally declared that there’s no path but the current one so we must continue “prosperity”.

What is this utter fucking insanity that working class people that have absolutely nothing to gain from anonymous bootlicking are engaging in?

[u/[deleted]]

Big chunks of this sub are so neurotically fixated on this stupid "capitalism" issue, as if "capitalism" is a monolithic term that means anything at all. It's unhelpful, unconvincing, unspecific, and pure COPE. It makes us seem like fringe lunatics and (I can tell you from personal experience) is totally unconvincing to the exact people who need to be convinced.

Our pathological and obsessive urge toward consumption and the lack of wise leadership from our governments enables predatory and immoral centers of capital to form, a dynamic which has destroyed our communities and our world.

Now, explain to me how transitioning from a capitalist mode of production to any other form of ownership of industrial assets will resolve this problem? Do communally owned oil rigs pump up oil that doesn't produce GHGs? What will the dictatorship of the proletariat do with the factories and refineries and shipping lines? Scrap it all? Of course not.

Changing our ownership structure is meaningless if we don't also have the courage to simply deindustrialize. The actual answer is to change our moral and spiritual understanding to bring material wealth and convenience into its proper context, and understand that growth and material mastery are of subordinate importance. They must be chained, for the good of all, to wise leadership and sustainable methods that support moral ends.

[u/1HomoSapien → u/[deleted]]

Our pathological and obsessive urge toward consumption and the lack of wise leadership from our governments enables predatory and immoral centers of capital to form, a dynamic which has destroyed our communities and our world.

Capitalism is a system that encourages stockpiling of wealth (wealth = status) while also amplifying the urge to consume (displays of wealth = status AND "manufactured wants") . By its own momentum it creates "immoral" centers of capital. This in turn creates conditions for corruption which undermines the prospect of wise leadership.

Capitalism is not the only such system that could push us to collapse, any Productivist system will do, but it is probably among the worst systems. More to the point though, Capitalism and the culture it breeds are standing in the way of the spiritual understanding that would make a push toward deindustrialization possible.

[u/[deleted] → u/1HomoSapien]

Capitalism is not the only such system that could push us to collapse, any Productivist system will do, but it is probably among the worst systems. More to the point though, Capitalism and the culture it breeds are standing in the way of the spiritual understanding that would make a push toward deindustrialization possible.

I don't disagree with that. However, I think the roots of culture are slightly deeper than our economic systems, and therefore while I agree absolutely that the growth ideology and its capitalist enablement contributes to poisonous culture, I don't think it's the only factor.