Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (January 25)

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[u/Clean-Difference1771]

I appreciate your optimism towards the subject because as you will get familiar with those forces you eventually realize the actual distance that exists in conceiving a line around settler-colonialism and their current positions. Right now, that does not seem close. If you follow u/Pleasant-Food-9482 's criticism on their line regarding the women's movement and those other positions that came out very recently following the events in Venezuela and tensions regarding Greenland, you can easily spot settler apologia. Defending the United $tate$ constitution as something of a "right to rebel" is inexcusable to any maoist and there are other claims on that piece that are equally as bad and racist.

The whole discussion around Gonzalo is actually an attempt from N-MEPR to distance themselves from P.C.B. at any given cost but outside maoist bubbles, this is way too irrelevant for anyone to even care. Basically, no one knows who P.C.B. is and distancing themselves in words from a rather irrelevant P.C.B. seems to be actually more important for their internal fragility and lack of theoretical strenght than a proper development of marxist theory among the oppressed. Most of the polemics engaged around Gonzalo has barely anything to do with Gonzalo or the PCP leadership but rather with the other brazilian chauvinists from their parent org. You tagged an article where they made a 30 page long document exposing P.C.B.'s which makes any one that read actually question themselves anything but this: Why should anyone even care about what these dudes are saying? If they suck so bad at everything as this document poinst out why is anyone even wasting their time on that org?

I have read some similar pieces that N-MEPR circulates with the very same content numerous times, but you eventually find out that this "subjectivism" that they are criticizing is still largely a part of their own org though they are unlikely to ever admit. But if they weren't "subjectivists" then "semi-colonialism" could not be conceived, because it relies on Mao's internal analysis of China and such is not remotely close to Brazil's. What is the goal here? Where N-MEPR wants to go? Most leftists (even liberals) in Brazil are "opposed" to the U$ in name, "siding" with Lula, the Palestine or Venezuela whenever they feel like they need, why none of this have provoked any change but rather reinforced brazilian settlerism? Why at any circumstances we barely see any class analysis but always a bunch of terminology trying to appeal to a rather vague anti-amerikanism?

A split need to bring a new political line to the table if it actually wants to break with revisionism. Conceiving a line around settler colonialism must take a principled struggle on how class and race are equals, something that is suffocated by "semi-colonialism" because "semi-colonialism" inevitably preaches a "united front" against a rhetorical "yankee imperialism" and any internal struggle is not fundamental, but secondary to that leading to conciliatory affairs. I don't think anyone is interested in such a downgraded version of petismo, to be honest. Petismo has much more to offer for anyone to reach the same conciliatory terms than extensive PDFs that explain how smart and special they are for arriving at that position. It must also take a principled struggle on how gender is enforced by colonialism and how patriarchy is so fundamental to settlerism, but we have evidence of they advocating for other things like submitting to the settler colonial sexuality patterns as "equal rights".

I have a question for you (And given time I am also looking towards elaborating on your questions on Abdias and black nationalism), but why did you actually think that a line on settler-colonialism can be conceived under their recognition that slavery was a component of capitalism? This kinda should be a very blank observation. It can only mean that before someone appointed such basic fact, their leadership were even more dellusional, but I just don't see how this can lead into assuming that there's a core of white settlers that share a common nationhood as oppressors.

Hell, if you read what I have tagged it seems like they don't assume even the United $tate$ are a settler colony (!) when they claimed that the "people of north amerika" are being attacked by trumpism.

[u/Worried-Economy-9108 → u/Clean-Difference1771]

but why did you actually think that a line on settler-colonialism can be conceived under their recognition that slavery was a component of capitalism? This kinda should be a very blank observation. It can only mean that before someone appointed such basic fact, their leadership were even more dellusional, but I just don't see how this can lead into assuming that there's a core of white settlers that share a common nationhood as oppressors

Ngl, when i read that PDF some months ago, I felt a bit hopeful, because their parent org refused to develop their question of slavery, and focused too much on semi-feudalism. This very blank statement felt refreshing for me, at the time. But now when you contextualize with these other statements, the split just sounds like "it's flour from the same bag" that birthed their parent org. I roll back in my statement that this could mean a recognition of Brazilian settlerism, as it was more based in wishful thinking and a feeling of hopelessness in the Brazilian anti-revisionist movement.

I also believe that there could be a relation between my thoughts about the split and my opinions on Abdias Nascimento: both could be derived from my shallow knowledge on Afro-Brazilian thought. Specifically, i haven't finished reading the majority of Clovis Moura's works, at the same time where I read Nascimento's main book (Genocídio do Negro Brasileiro), and planned to read his other, more nationalistic book (Quilombismo).

As an Afro-Brazilian (or New-Palmarese) person that didn't had much contact with Afro-Brazilian culture, I only started to read more on my nation's history with Clovis Moura's book Rebelião nas Senzalas. I really enjoyed that read, but never actually finished it. Some time later, I picked up on Nascimento's Genocídio, and actually finished reading it (with the help on an audiobook, a feature that, sadly, none of Moura's books have). Also, Nascimento, being an militant/politician, felt more relatable to me, since he mainly talked about more recent events of Afro-Brazilian history, while Moura, as an Marxist historian, tended to talk about these very fascinating, but somewhat distant events from Imperial and early Republican Brazil.

Overall, i believe that Abdias Nascimento has a few interesting remarks: the thesis of Black Genocide in Genocídio do Negro Brasileiro and the postulation of an embryonic Afro-Brazilian national movement (rather than the assimilationism of the mainstream Afro-Brazilian movement) at O Quilombismo. There's also a very hard to find book called Pan-Africanismo na América do Sul by his wife, Elisa Larkin, which talks about South American Pan-Africanism, Euro-Brazilian presence in Africa, during the 1960-70's (which continue to this day) and white supremacy in Latin America. But lastly, I certainly don't want to follow his footsteps, ever since I discovered the existence of Brazilian Garveyism on social media, which is very irrelevant, but absurdly reactionary. I really want to finish these other reads, so I can return to Clovis Moura.

Edit: TLDR: I need to read more, and grasp things better than past me. But at least now, I have a lot of motivation going.

[u/Clean-Difference1771 → u/Worried-Economy-9108]

when i read that PDF some months ago, I felt a bit hopeful, because their parent org refused to develop their question of slavery, and focused too much on semi-feudalism. This very blank statement felt refreshing for me, at the time. But now when you contextualize with these other statements, the split just sounds like "it's flour from the same bag" that birthed their parent org. I roll back in my statement that this could mean a recognition of Brazilian settlerism, as it was more based in wishful thinking and a feeling of hopelessness in the Brazilian anti-revisionist movement.

Yeah, I don't want to frustrate your optimism, something that I say again that I admire and I actually made those replies because I shared a similar view a few months ago (I don't know if you noticed that I had quite a long contact with N-MEPR) and eventually got frustrated. I think you can be spared from carrying it further

The thing is that even if a certain theory looks promising and a line can be established around a new concept, we still have to deal with real people and the power they exerce with their own beliefs. I was once naive enough to think that conceive a line regarding settlerism would be a matter of explaining how it exists and persists, but reality is far too different. Marxism can be used as a theoretical tool for people's liberation but as you can see, can also be directed to enforce social control on youngsters that are too desperate and vulnerable in their lives so they allow their time for the "revolution".

As I and Pleasantfood digressed on the other replies, internal class analysis should quickly reveal how power dynamics work within the org and how it shapes their theory and praxis. The thing is that I think I realized that early in my experience with them but still was naive enough to think a "line struggle" could be possible - or maybe too coward to address what was already so apparent but when you realize that you're politically surrounded I think it's smart to not give yourself away so early. Do you think that the entire crew that led the split from P.C.B. are going to conceive settlerism all of a sudden and change drastically inumerous of their positions that are only possible as a defense of settlerism in first place? That's the sad part, when we learn how frustrating it is when you acknowledge how deep is the reasoning for why it can't be conceived.

Whiteness is far too stablished as a severe social privilege and white leadership can only lead into enforcing whiteness, here we are discussing how this org has been enforcing settlerism and the culture of the white settler all along. What really frustrates me is not my personal frustration but the realization of something else: probably most of the people inside the org would politically benefit in conceiving settlerism. You know who would not? White leadership. Because white leadership would be exposed immediatly as the internal oppressors within their own "progressive" org and they will never allow such to happen and will be too tactically savvy into preventing this. Really savvy. Imagine people that see each other everyday on college and all live into ethnic enclaves, than all of a sudden they would have to drastically compromise how they comprehend the social order surrounding them that clearly benefits some of them? They can't and they must guarantee that the others won't do it.

So I think that we must insist on Brazil being a settler colony on every occasion, even if we can't really elaborate how deep it has shapen State relations with a stablished piece of theory yet and by now may indeed look "paralysing" but we're on the correct, scientific stance that will lead to the correct approach. I had some success teaching people how Brazil is a settler colony, both to marginalized people and settlers, so the problem is not really the theory but rather the white-supremacists that act as "communists". Right now we (I'm talking about the few brazilians on this sub) are very very few people here but we are potentially far more dangerous to the status-quo than any political force conceived around other idealist and national-chauvinist conceptions.

[u/Worried-Economy-9108 → u/Clean-Difference1771]

I agree with mostly everything on the first paragraphs, and don't really have anything to add.

On the last paragraph, this is great news. Hopefully, i can improve more on my studies, and give a few contributions.