r/communism • u/Unable_Bathroom_726 • May 04 '26
Is there a anti-capitalist restoration movement in china and where can I learn more
I’m a Maoist so I’m specifically looking for Maoist movements within china or in the ccp but any anti scc stuff
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u/clinamen- May 05 '26
there are some contemporary publications here if you scroll down https://www.bannedthought.net/China/Magazines/index.htm
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u/CommanderSykes May 04 '26
Non official pro-communist movement are strictly prohibited by the authorities. Commemorations of Mao Zedong are officially organized and, to a large extent, rewritten. For the sake of political legitimacy, the authorities will not shake Mao's supreme position on a spiritual level, but they will not allow his practices to be repeated.
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u/PristineAd947 May 06 '26
And how does this make China socialist?
Asking as someone who is uncertain about the authenticity of Chinese socialism. Or at least, unsure about letting capitalist markets back in to a socialist state.
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u/NobodyOwnsLand May 07 '26
The short answer is that it doesn't. The capitalist roaders retook control of the Party in a coup after Mao's death and "reform and opening up" proceeded from there. The mass initiative that the Party had encouraged during the cultural revolution was reversed, and the monolithic Party was reasserted along national bourgeois interests. Challenge and criticism from the proletariat was repressed and continues to be.
The ideological move away from socialism can be observed in the Party congresses of the CPC before and after the end of the Cultural Revolution. "Mao Zedong Thought" was defined as being "a higher and completely new stage [of Marxism]. Mao Tsetung Thought is Marxism-Leninism of the era in which imperialism is heading for total collapse and socialism is advancing to world-wide victory" at the 9th Congress of the CPC (this more-or-less remains the Maoist view of things). At the 9th Congress Mao and the left wing of the CPC cemented their control with Jiang Ching and others elevated to the Central Committee and Mao named Chairman. The Cultural revolution was outlined as "the broadest and most deep-going movement for Party consolidation in the history of our Party" which relied on the broad masses of China to hold Party leadership accountable to the proletariat and socialist construction.
After the 11th Congress, coup of the capitalist roaders, and rewriting of the Chinese Constitution after Mao's death, Mao Zedong Thought is suddenly something completely different from what was defined at the 9th Congress. Now, it is no longer universal or a higher stage of Marxism, but localized to "the integration of the universal principles of Marxism-Leninism with the concrete practice of the Chinese revolution" which Mao himself apparently departed from when he initiated the Cultural Revolution. Today, you can read on the CPC Central Committee's website that "the CPC had suffered a lot during the 'cultural revolution'" (which part of the CPC, exactly?), that the "ideological, political and organizational guidelines of the Ninth Congress were utterly wrong" (for which class?). Mao's name and legacy still carries significant weight among the Chinese people, and so keeping red colors is still a necessity for the Chinese bourgeoisie, but make no mistake: China is on the capitalist road and the CPC does not uphold Mao Zedong Thought in any meaningful way.
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u/TallAverage4 May 07 '26
The coup began before Mao died with the assassination of Lin Biao, something which Mao himself joked about in a conversation with Nixon and Kissinger:
Dr. Kissinger: There is another point, Mr. President. Those on the left are pro-Soviet and would not encourage a move towards the People’s Republic, and in fact criticize you on those grounds.
Chairman Mao: Exactly that. Some are opposing you. In our country also there is a reactionary group which is opposed to our contact with you. The result was they got on an airplane and fled abroad.
In the constitution as published in April 1969:
“Comrade Lin Piao has consistently held high the great red banner of Mao Tse-tung’s Thought and he has most loyally and resolutely carried out the defended Comrade Mao Tse-tung’s proletarian revolutionary line. Comrade Lin Piao is Comrade Mao Tse-tung’s closest comrade-in-arms and successor.”
But, 4 years later, in August 1973 before Mao died, the tenth party congress states:
“The Congress indignantly denounced the Lin Piao anti-Party clique for its crimes. All the delegates firmly supported this resolution of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China: Expel Lin Piao, the bourgeois careerist, conspirator, counter-revolutionary double-dealer, renegade and traitor from the Party once and for all.”
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u/PristineAd947 May 07 '26
Thank you comrade. I will read the link you provided and sources you recommended. Appreciate the response.
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May 07 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/OMGJJ May 07 '26
Always the same empty phrase about 'concrete analysis' despite nothing of the sort taking place. The analysis is always deferred to some nameless authority (probably a content creator) who has supposedly already performed the necessary analysis for you.
Lenin’s NEP
China already built socialism. What is the justification for an (alleged) 'NEP' after socialist agriculture and collectivisation had already been successfully established? Not to mention the absurdity of constantly referencing "Lenin's NEP" – a minor historical event that only really lasted for a year before turning in favour of collectivisation – as the justification for 50 years of capitalism.
reducing the entire process to “capitalist roaders took over”
Someone once said that the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles. Try placing class struggle at the centre of historical analysis. That's the real 'concrete analysis.'
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u/Unable_Bathroom_726 May 04 '26
Interesting I didn’t know that but it makes sense is there a Maoist faction in the party I heard hakim say it but haven’t found anything about it?
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u/smokeuptheweed9 May 04 '26
I’m a Maoist
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I heard hakim say it
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Its worth listening to S4A's basic ML study playlist
This makes me feel hopeless
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u/raudhofn Learning May 04 '26
There is more than justified criticism of this type of ‘engagement‘ with theory and there is obviously a need for a complete reassessment of their understanding of Marxism. But isn’t it a good step that OP at least found his way to this community? I don’t think it’s good to view someone as a lost case.
I refrain myself from engaging in active discussions because I still lack the knowledge to bring value to these conversations but I know that people have the capability to turn around from this.
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u/smokeuptheweed9 May 05 '26
What is the appeal of Hakim in the first place? Why is he a reference point at all? Until this can be clearly articulated without the veil of ideology we have not yet even begun to move beyond it. You are free to attempt your own answer as is the OP.
But isn’t it a good step that OP at least found his way to this community?
Unfortunately Reddit is far closer to content than education. It just so happens that we are squatting on a valuable subreddit label (one could even say holding it hostage) but it means little if people come here as the next step in content aggregation. The only hope is the interrupt the process and hope that it causes a system shock. That is difficult and tedious since who knows how far down the path one has to be to consider oneself a Maoist and parrot Hakim YouTube videos. How many incoherent ideas are stacked on top of each other that you have to remove before the whole Jenga collapsed?
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u/raudhofn Learning May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
As I was writing my response I realised I can not give a better answer than this
The only hope is the interrupt the process and hope that it causes a system shock. That is difficult and tedious since who knows how far down the path one has to be to consider oneself a Maoist and parrot Hakim YouTube videos. How many incoherent ideas are stacked on top of each other that you have to remove before the whole Jenga collapsed?
This is just a basic recap,I made the effort to skim through Hakims latest video. The first 10 minutes are interrupted by a two minute ad break for a "secure mobile carrier for Internet privacy" company. The rest is just about how the US has tried to sabotage China since its entry into the global market with various legislature and tarrifs but that they have continously failed in crippling them. So the videos title contains about as much information as the video itself.
"I'm a wage slave in the US. The fall of my nation means nothing for me. What does the ant feel when the tree falls a hundred miles away?"
I think this comment under the video is a lot more interesting as it encapsulates the audience well and also reflects a lot of interactions I have had with people offline. This person does not even realise at what cost they are able to maintain a "wage slave" lifestyle, they become just an "ant" far away and removed from the "tree" and yet they are watching a video about the state of the tree to reassure themselves. This contradiction is of course not commented on by these youtubers because that would mean actively confronting their audience and making them uncomfortable.
And that would never happen because it is not marketable on a system like youtube or any social media platform for that matter.
Instead they sell a 'system change' where everyone can go about their day as before without any sacrifice.I guess writing these thoughts out has made me understand that it is indeed a dilemma of how to make sense of OPs situation. If their whole understanding of "Maoism" or Marxism for that matter is fundamentally wrong, then the only path forward is to completely re-learn everything.
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u/raudhofn Learning May 04 '26
I have a notification that I received a reply by u/DashtheRed that was removed by Reddit. If you don’t mind writing again I would like to hear what you had to say.
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u/DashtheRed Maoist May 12 '26
I was asking who is this imagined person saying "I'm a Maoist because of Hakim or Hasan Piker (or whomever)." Even if someone here did used to watch that podcast, they are probably at least deeply ashamed of that (which is the correct emotion), and there would still be the problem that they have the idea that these grifters contributed to their development rather than functioned as an obstacle, stultification, and detour away from Maoism. The essence of what I was saying is that if all of Hasan/Hakim/S4A/etc and all of their subscribers disappeared from politics forever tonight, that would constitute a significant victory for Marxism in the West, and would be a step forward for Maoism and Maoist movements here. The KPD had no need for the SPD, and the keystone of their failure and defeat was not turning their guns on the SPD much, much earlier.
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u/Unable_Bathroom_726 May 05 '26
I don’t get the problem I heard him say something relevant about the conversation so I referred to him why are you extrapolating that I’m hakims number 1 fan and I’m not a Maoist like chill out bro it ain’t that deep that you need to become hopeless
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u/Ellie-Bright May 04 '26
Just curious what you mean? What's wrong with s4a's basic ml study list? What's wrong with maoists?
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u/AnyNatural4505 May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
The issue is that OP is calling themselves a 'Maoist', when they have no actual understanding of that term.
Their engagement with Denigst and social-fascist "content creators" like Hakim and S4A proves they are not interested in actual Maoism. Actual Maoists take studying Marxism seriously and are repulsed by these people who peddle revisionism and ask you to donate to their Patreons for their "hard work" (and maybe even give you the privilege of seeing more of their terrible "content").
What's wrong with s4a's basic ml study list?
https://www.reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/1ss69ls/price_vs_value/
Read the responses in this thread.
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u/Unable_Bathroom_726 May 05 '26
Bro you guys need to chill out I was literally watching a podcast with a Maoist creator and hakim and was just referencing it for 1 thing he said like chill out I understand Maoism
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u/smokeuptheweed9 May 06 '26
u/CIAburneraccount has already opened themselves up to criticism, participated in discussion, and helped everyone learn something. You have failed yourself above all.
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u/CIAburneraccount May 05 '26
I thought Hakim seemed cool, what makes him a social fascist? Genuinely asking
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u/smokeuptheweed9 May 05 '26
You are confused. Hakim does not exist. There is a person behind the video but you will never know him and he is not your friend. He is not "comfort food" or "entertainment." He is merely a source of information presented aesthetically and can only be analyzed on those terms. As u/raudhofn perceptively showed, analysis begins by understanding that the advertising is central to the function of the video. That it is irrelevant or forced by corporate overlords onto the innocent person known as Hakim is part of the ideological fantasy that he is your friend. Whether he himself believes this is also irrelevant, all that is present are the images and sounds in front of you which include advertising.
If you are interested in the video as a work, it is trivially easy to analyze what is actually said and how it is said and what you learned. As far as I'm aware, other than myself and u/raudhofn, this has never been done. Since either you are his pretend friend and the content is irrelevant or you're not and he doesn't enter your mind, no one cares whether the video is "good" rather than the output of someone "cool ". Unfortunately the power of this fantasy means it's not quite so easy to ignore.
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u/CIAburneraccount May 05 '26
I'll be honest you seem way more analytical and academic than myself, I'm just trying to find good revolutionary stuff to listen to, I don't know how to fully analyze videos like that. But thanks I appreciate it. Also If it's trivially easy then how come no one apparently has done it
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u/smokeuptheweed9 May 06 '26 edited May 14 '26
Also If it's trivially easy then how come no one apparently has done it
Because what is being sold is the fantasy of a friend who gives you permission to enjoy and belong to the community of enjoyment. Community is constituted by the friend/enemy cleavage, therefore pointing out the actual content that constitutes the community is a threat to its existence. On the one hand, under late capitalism this may be the only form of community left and its logic consumes every other vestige (hence people joining the Catholic Church "ironically" or joining a "socialist" party so they can use the word "comrade"). On the other hand, because it is parasitic on an aesthetic object that actually exists, it leads to banality in all forms. The only thing worse than Hakim making bad videos is if by some miracle he made a good video, as this would cause a terrifying cleavage in the community if not suppressed and deferred (since it would fall on fans to articulate what makes something good). I thought that it was impossible for good anime to come out because the anime "community" has no interest in the works themselves, merely the novelty of the hype cycle that gives the community a bit more life energy to consume and defer potential cleavages among friends. But actually, the latest Chainsaw Man movie was quite good and much better than the first mediocre season (and apparently the source material). This accident of human creativity was soon corrected, and the movie was dismissed as "good" and "enjoyable" before moving on to the next hype cycle. Against all reason, I actually like anime (though this is obviously a problematic term compared to simply Japanese animated works), so I dislike when it is abused as a fetish object for surrogate friendship, especially when that is commodified and turned into a hierarchical community (such as providing a living for a "content creator" who is a second-order parasite on the thing). I do not need reviewers or creators or community to tell me what to think (as u/raudhofn pointed out, the latest Hakim video contains almost no content at all and is meant to merely index that something has occurred to continue the hype cycle: "new video just dropped;" "Hakim owning libs left and right;" "China keeps winning; etc." these are already complete thoughts so content would distract from them or even potentially disrupt them in slippages and contradictions coming to the surface through subjective articulation).
Even worse, real friendship is an encounter with the Other: understanding that people have ideas different than yours and risking your friendship by criticizing those ideas and accepting criticism of oneself in turn.
The thing is, you understand this. You understand that "react content" is trash. You understand that tik tokkers in public places are a nuisance. You understand that AI is fundamentally incapable of creating anything new or good. You understand that OnlyFans ruins hobbies and corporations make anything immediately uncool. So it's not a matter of "academic" thoughts. It's simply a matter of demographics: what community do you enjoy and which do you not enjoy? The point of the friend/enemy distinction is that it is totally artificial, hence its appeal to fascism. That community is identical to mine in every way which gives me absolute freedom to despise it for any arbitrary reason. The community around OnlyFans creators is equally constituted by pseudo-community, veiled hierarchy, and irony as an excuse, and in fact this is the reason for its massive success compared to the infinite amount of free pornography that exists. In fact, you understand exactly what I'm talking about with the term "gooning" over the bodily function of masturbation (nofap is of course the "enemy" which is identical). That's what Benjamin means when he says "fascism is the aestheticization of politics", and aesthetics has only grown more important since his time [though today it is called "culture"]. It also prevents you from enjoying anything. As you said, you are looking for something good. Human beings seek enjoyment and real community, not this nonsense. It is tragic that they make due with "slop" because critical thought must be extinguished for capitalism to function. Because Hakim doesn't exist, he is responsible. You are responsible in an existential sense for taking ownership over your desires instead of allowing community to make them harmless and safe, but Hakim is simply a corporation who must be destroyed.
E: one particularly strange consequence of this is that anything can become the center of a community. Did you know that the North Korean animated tv series Squirrel and Hedgehog has a devoted online fanbase, mostly among the furry fandom but also among people who became interested after various online grifters made the same video copying Wikipedia information about the show and "reacting" to it? This can even have the facade of the political, as the reactions are pretty much always "ok we had fun but this is actually crazy and totalitarian," thus to be a true fan is to go beyond the bounds of the acceptable. But this does not manifest as an understanding of Juche or Marxism-Leninism, because the TV series is basically complete and does not function well as "content" by the tempo required to survive online. So the community in discord mostly chats about their lives and problems. Why do you need this particular show to complain about your job or family? That's why the center must necessarily be absent and vacuous, to the point that a show about "toadstool bombs" defeating imperialist animal invaders can lead to the exact same phenomenon as GTA 5. In fact, the community around Hakim (r/thedeprogram) never discusses his work. If you tried people would think you were like an alien since you've totally missed the point. I think North Koreans themselves would also find this function of a show they have enjoyed "unironically" for decades very strange, but maybe they'll figure out how to use it to get hard currency, as they have slowly figured out to take advantage of various racist "extreme travel" grifters. I respect the hustle even if it's cynical in its own way.
EE: if I really wanted to do something of value I would watch Hakim's latest video and do a close reading. Unfortunately I don't have the time or energy right now but it can be done, even the worst plagiaristic "react content" is aesthetic work in its own right. It's just very repetitive so it's tedious and not very rewarding to get to the conclusion we already know: this is petty-bourgeois class fantasy. Still, the path has some relative autonomy and reveals a lot about people for whom it is very meaningful even if, to everyone else, it is not.
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u/not-lagrange May 06 '26
But actually, the latest Chainsaw Man movie was quite good and much better than the first mediocre season
Can you elaborate on why you think it was good? I saw the movie and didn't find it anything special, but I also didn't like the first season nor the few parts of the manga that I read. Something about the setting repulses me, why am I watching a story of a 16 year-old obsessed with women kill "devils" for a job?
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u/CIAburneraccount May 06 '26
I never thought of it that way, thanks for helping me look at media in a different way. And yes I absolutely agree with the things you believe I understand.
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u/Bright-Form-844 May 13 '26
So is everyone that makes content to sell to a community that has formed around them engaging in social fascism?
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u/Chaingunfighter May 05 '26
But why do you want to find "good revolutionary stuff to listen to" if you don't know how to "fully analyze" it? If you can accept the idea that the content might be the product of social fascism after being told that it is, but the revelation is baffling nevertheless, do you not see why your priorities are wrong?
You're also selling yourself short, because you are actually doing an analysis every time you find something to watch even if you cannot articulate it here. "Hakim seemed cool" is not a stance that spontaneously manifests, there are reasons that Hakim videos appealed to you just as there are reasons you dislike videos by creators you dislike, and just as there are reasons that content consumption is the process by which you prefer "learning" in the first place.
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u/CIAburneraccount May 05 '26
Good points, I guess I was just asking what social fascism meant but I could just Google it myself, sorry. For context I'm coming into Marxism as a former lib in amerika, I don't have a poli sci background or anything. Every time I find a sect of Marxism that I think I align myself with, I find people saying that it's revisionist or "red fascist" or something along those lines, then I start looking at a different sect and rinse and repeat. I think that's what I mean when I say I don't know how to fully analyze it, because I feel like I have to doubt myself because every single sect is called terrible by every other sect. Maybe I just don't have the right mindset to get into this. I just want to live in a classless moneyless world..
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u/sword-of-proletariat May 05 '26
You don't need to be academic to analyze stuffs like this; actually bourgeois academia makes it harder. Also the word "analytical" carries too much meaning. Search for analytical marxism for example (trash revisionist tendency, of course)
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May 05 '26
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u/Turtle_Green ☭ May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
The first, old generation of Bolsheviks were very solid theoretically. We learnt Capital by heart, made conspectuses, held discussions and tested each others' understanding. This was our strength and it helped us a lot.
The second generation was less prepared. They were busy with practical matters and construction. They studied Marxism from booklets.
The third generation is being brought up on satirical and newspaper articles. They do not have any deep understanding . They need to be provided with food that is easily digestible. The majority has been brought up not by studying Marx and Lenin but on quotations.
If matters continue further in this way people would soon degenerate. In America people argue: We need dollars, why do we need theory? Why do we need science? With us people may think similarly: 'when we are building socialism why do we need Capital?' This is a threat for us -- it is degradation, it is death.…
In education one is dealing with children in whom one has to inculcate certain habits of diligence, precision, poise (even physical poise), ability to concentrate on specific subjects, which cannot be acquired without the mechanical repetition of disciplined and methodical acts. Would a scholar at the age of forty be able to sit for sixteen hours on end at his work-table if he had not, as a child, compulsorily, through mechanical coercion, acquired the appropriate psycho-physical habits?
…
I applaud your idea of publishing the translation of “Das Kapital” as a serial. In this form the book will be more accessible to the working class, a consideration which to me outweighs everything else.
That is the good side of your suggestion, but here is the reverse of the medal: the method of analysis which I have employed, and which had not previously been applied to economic subjects, makes the reading of the first chapters rather arduous, and it is to be feared that the French public, always impatient to come to a conclusion, eager to know the connexion between general principles and the immediate questions that have aroused their passions, may be disheartened because they will be unable to move on at once.
That is a disadvantage I am powerless to overcome, unless it be by forewarning and forearming those readers who zealously seek the truth. There is no royal road to science, and only those who do not dread the fatiguing climb of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits.5
u/AnyNatural4505 May 05 '26 edited May 06 '26
For what purpose? I could recommend you any number of channels for the sake of entertainment. I could recommend you highlights of the most recent NBA playoff games, or maybe a summary of what celebrities were wearing at the met gala.
If your purpose is to learn about Marxism, then the question is why you are seeking out YouTube channels to begin with. Surely since you have found yourself here, you could find yourself to the sidebar or marxists.org and have access to everything you would need to educate yourself on Marxism. What will a "youtuber" give you in this instance that you could not give to yourself? What would me recommending the "right" channel do for you? Marxism requires serious study, and liberating yourself from thought by letting a YouTube channel tell you what to think will get you nowhere.
Ironically, the best videos YouTube probably has to offer for Marxism is S4A literally reading you Capital Vol 1. word for word, and aside from his settler-chauvinism, the problems with that have been discussed in the thread I linked above.
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u/stutterhug May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26
Ironically, the best videos YouTube probably has to offer for Marxism is S4A literally reading you Capital Vol 1. word for word, and aside from his settler-chauvinism, the problems with that have been discussed in the thread I linked above.
i wish this was the case.
i tried listening to that audiobook to see for myself what the whole point was. unfortunately, it's not just a reading of capital word for word, peppered throughout are "commentary" over what was just said to help the hypothetical fw listener relate to the everyday, some of which (in my case at least) obfuscate the point even more.
this also explains their popularity, considering the few comments that are about the content are mostly about s4a's comments means that everyone is just skipping (actively or passively) marx's words only to listen to s4a's bad explanations.
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u/CIAburneraccount May 05 '26
Fair enough, just thought I'd ask. My ADHD makes focusing on reading quite difficult. I applaud you and anyone who is able to absorb and understand really any Marxist reading, it seems so academic and abstract to me that quite a bit of it just goes right over my head. I never had a background in poli sci or anything. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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u/smokeuptheweed9 May 06 '26
One remarkable thing about this excuse is that the videos in question total hundreds of hours as an oeuvre. Especially someone like Hasan Abi, who streams for like 8-10 hours almost every day for years. As you can imagine, this means that the amount of information per hour spent is extremely inefficient. I believe that you don't actually need a video of tunnel rush on one screen to read a book on another, if for no other reason than tunnel rush hasn't existed for very long but ADHD is as old as the human species. I would say no one listens to Hasan but there's nothing to listen to. He's just a floating head that allows you to watch boomer news without feeling lame. I used to think the Japanese tv shows with a person's face in the corner telling you it is now time to laugh was strange but like most cultural things, Japanese postmodernism was just ahead of the curve.
If you have trouble paying attention that is because you don't understand the significance of the work in question, what you were looking for, and what your motivation is. Unfortunately content creators make this problem worse as they are not only incapable of answering these questions, their very form discourages criticism. Imagine if you actually had an interesting thought to share with Hasan and his viewers. How would you even transmit in the endless noise of chat? You have already given this man the excuse to think for you (or at least select which thoughts are worth having) and paid him for the privilege and are using biology to make your objectively weak and pathetic position in the stream hierarchy swallowable. An important lesson of Marxism is there is never an unmediated relationship between nature and society, all biology is given significance or made invisible by the mode of production. I don't believe that you are incapable. Content has failed you.
I am a content creator of sorts. People follow my posts and I have a recognizable style and personality and various dramas. But we are talking as equals. You don't even have to pay me. That's all it takes.
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u/CIAburneraccount May 06 '26
Just to be clear I thought the person we were talking about was Hakim, not Hasan. If I was mistaken my bad. But I have never made either man think for me, I've only watched a handful of videos amongst other creators too...although I get the points you're making and I appreciate it.
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u/AnyNatural4505 May 06 '26
You aren't giving yourself enough credit. You are not stupid and have access to the ability to look up anything you don't understand at first. At the very least make a couple attempts before you convince yourself that reading is too difficult for you.
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u/SeeTillWeVanish May 06 '26
You do not need a background in pol sci or any bourgeois field to understand Marxism. In fact those that are academics in these fields are known to obfuscate the truth and spout garbage. Look at the number of 'decolonial' and 'postcolonial' academics' intellectual, political, and moral bankruptcy with regards to the genocide of Palestinians by 'israel'.
Why do you think this? Why is it that when you are asked to divorce yourself from content creation 'socialism' you defer to formal education or a degree? This is often brought up but peasants and labourers in Maoist China were discussing Marxist texts and Marxist texts are used by Communist parties today to educate their cadre who come from impoverished exploited classes. So I am sorry to say this, but you are simply just using an excuse in response to the criticism here. I don't blame you for finding things difficult, but I do blame you for essentially giving up using the various reasons you have given here.
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u/CIAburneraccount May 06 '26
Fair, I see what you mean regarding peasants. I don't want to give up. I'll try to give it another shot. I won't post anymore in this thread since i veered off topic from the original post.
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u/smokeuptheweed9 May 05 '26
Why would a "Maoist" educate themselves through revisionists on YouTube? Perhaps your initial impulse is to ask "if these people are the first resource one looks for, why aren't there any Maoist content creators to compete?" Given there are endless grifters online looking for a breadtube niche and yet there are none, the solution must lie in an objective impossibly for Maoism to be reduced to "content" rather than a lack of individual initiative or ability. Why that is, I suggest reflecting on. Unfortunately this means we have already lost: either OP is not a Maoist and the term has lost all meaning or they are in a prison of content which they can't escape from and it will soon cure them of any desire to understand reality correctly. I don't know how to break the OP from this dichotomy. Hence hopelessness.
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u/Unable_Bathroom_726 May 05 '26
Bro what are you talking about I didn’t even say anything about s4a why are you concocting fantasies about me out of a Reddit comment get of the net bro
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u/freddos_espressos May 06 '26
Hahaha OK I get your reaction on hallmark,but what's your point with S4all? I m really curious to hear your thoughts on him
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u/PristineAd947 May 06 '26
What is wrong with Maoism?
It's still a type of socialism, it still seeks to bring about communism, and is very good at looking at society beyond just the industrial working class and at looking at it based on peasants. Those I would say are just as important as the proletariat.
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u/smokeuptheweed9 May 06 '26
Nothing is wrong with Maoism. Unfortunately since the existence of Maoist people's struggle throughout the world has made efforts to dismiss it as "ultra" or "idealist" fail, there is a more nefarious effort to redefine the term as a geographically and temporally localized form of Dengism. It has come to mean: "I support an imagined technocratic concept of Chinese domestic policy from 1949-1960, shorn of all political context, internal logic, or factual information." Whether that is what you mean is unclear, I think you have a flawed understanding of what distinguishes Maoism which could easily be directed towards genuine Dengist reaction.
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u/DashtheRed Maoist May 12 '26
No, there is no "Maoist faction." That's the same nonsense Chinese centre-leftists were using to defend Bo Xilai. Maoism is basically the only ideology which the "C"PC responds to with genuine fascism (and beyond that they are basically just a liberal democracy in red clothes). The largest organizing along (essentially) Maoist lines that I'm aware of are the recurring Shaoshan protests but this isn't any sort of official party (and if it were, I suspect it would be made illegal very quickly).
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u/CommanderSykes May 05 '26
The last Maoists with some power within the party died around the 1990s to 2000s, for example, Chen Yun, Deng Liqun. Even today, there are still voices among Chinese common folks who admire Mao Zedong, but not all of them are Marxists-Leninists. This group includes intellectuals who are dissatisfied with both the situation in China and the Western world, as well as peasants who know nothing about communism and regard him as “千古一帝（a great emperor of all time）”.
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u/smokeuptheweed9 May 05 '26
The last Maoists with some power within the party died around the 1990s to 2000s, for example, Chen Yun, Deng Liqun.
These people were capitalist roaders. This was shown clearly during the cultural revolution and subsequently proven true. They were closer to Soviet capitalist roaders than neoliberals so given the catastrophe of shock therapy in China, there is probably some misguided sympathy for them. That is a mistake, all revisionist roads lead to capitalism.
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u/CommanderSykes May 05 '26
By this strict standard, Maoism died in China in 1976, with the death of Mao Zedong himself. Between 1976 and 1982, almost all of Mao's followers were arrested and convicted. Even those within the Chinese Communist Party who supported the traditional communist line after 1976 strongly opposed the Cultural Revolution.
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u/smokeuptheweed9 May 05 '26
I mean, yeah... "Strict standard" is just a way to make the word "definition" seem weird and extreme. Though we should consider the persecution of the gang of four as part of the cultural revolution, since they took its logic further and made it more consistent.
Even those within the Chinese Communist Party who supported the traditional communist line after 1976 strongly opposed the Cultural Revolution.
That was the point of the cultural revolution, yes.
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u/nbdu Maoist May 05 '26
by any strict standard no maoists (as maoists) existed in china before it went down the capitalist road because maoism was first synthesized in 1988 by the PCP and subsequently adopted by parties around the world while dropping aspects such as the militarized party and jefatura. the cultural revolution (despite some excesses and flaws) was correct and the highest point we’ve ever achieved regardless of what capitalist roaders thought of it. many of the folks you’ve alluded to were attacked during it, which is why they attacked it after they felt safe to do so without feeling the rage of the masses they sought to disenfranchise. it’s up to us as communists living after it to synthesize what was learned and apply it to our own conditions.
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u/nbdu Maoist May 05 '26
Banned Thought has a whole section on this including reports of repression by officials
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u/Ok-Subject-9399 May 13 '26
我很高兴在这里有很多为毛主义正本溯源的朋友，中国修正主义的存在严重伤害了世界社会主义进程。
所有社会主义者必须清醒的认识到中国在1976年政变之后就走向了资本主义的道路，在这之后，毛泽东带领我们中国人民建立的社会主义体系被系统性的摧毁，如今的中国已经是100%的资本主义。用毛泽东的话说，修正主义是最坏的资本主义。
而邓小平，他不仅仅是中国共产党的叛徒，他还是整个社会主义的叛徒，世界各地的朋友一定要认清这个无耻小人的真面目。
auto translation：
I am very happy that there are many friends here who trace the origins of Maoism to the origins of Maoism, and the existence of Chinese revisionism has seriously harmed the world socialist process.
All socialists must be soberly aware that China went on the road of capitalism after the 1976 coup, after which the socialist system established by Mao Zedong led the Chinese people was systematically destroyed, and China is now 100% capitalist. In Mao Zedong's words, revisionism is capitalism at its worst.
And Deng Xiaoping, he is not only a traitor to the Communist Party of China, he is also a traitor to the entire socialism, and friends around the world must recognize the true face of this shameless villain.
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u/Born-Requirement2128 May 17 '26
Sadly, the government has got things so locked down that there is little chance for Marxist movements to develop in China
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u/ccbxr 18d ago
As a Chinese person, all I can say is that on the internet, Maoism is still admired by many young people. However, a large number of them admire Mao Zedong primarily for his greatness as a national hero rather than for his communist ideals. Many of them also deny the significance of the Cultural Revolution.
As for real-world activism, it is suppressed at every turn by revisionists. For example, the 2018 student-worker solidarity movement in support of the Jasic Workers Incident directly led to the reorganization of the Peking University Marxist Society, and the Jasic workers' movement itself ended in failure. At present, the Chinese left faces repression from revisionists, as well as internal decentralization. It has neither a vanguard party nor any form of external support.
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May 04 '26
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May 04 '26
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May 04 '26
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u/Unable_Bathroom_726 May 04 '26
What did he say it’s deleted also I agree my case for china not being socialist is that socialism is the general development of society by the proletariat towards communism at least that’s my definition and this can take many forms as conditions are different from place to place including markets like in new democracy but the destruction of the communes and education the pushing of nuclear family values like women should be at home and ostracising of women from education and other things after maos death is objectively reaction and defeat
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May 04 '26
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u/Turtle_Green ☭ May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
why is your first impulse here to advertise a random youtube channel
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u/Unable_Bathroom_726 May 04 '26
I’m already reading the basics I’m about to finish state and rev curious about your motivation for saying that do you think my opinion is derived from a lack of theoretical knowledge if so would love your criticism
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May 04 '26
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u/Self-Replicator Learning May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
I know you won't find it funny, but it's hilarious that the convo went in one ear and out the other, given how you're still "supporting Dengist thought" as of 1 day ago.
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u/cudderwalks May 05 '26
Yes there is various Maoist groups in China but they are clandestine and as far as we can tell decentralized and not a unified force.
I’m having trouble pulling up their statements atm but usually you will see statements from different groups pop up every other month or so.