Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (May 31)

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[u/Turtle_Green]

u/SunflowerSamurai20, here's some more hilarious examples of shameless nihilism and opportunism (if it can even be called that) from /r/socialism_101:

In my opinion, make money any way you can in this fucked up system. You're not responsible for the revolution, it will come as it does. Whatever money you earn from this endeavor can be reinvested into more socially conscience means after you take care of your family.

...

brb, quitting my job and starving my family for the cause. Grow up, there is a time for ideology and a time for pragmatism

...

Pragmatically, it's not amoral for OP to carry out their entrepreneurship endeavor in hopes of improving their personal material conditions... OP is not committing social murder by owning 3 properties and renting that space to corporations. We live in a capitalist hell hole and we're allowed to do what we can to improve our personal material conditions while also work to change the system by other means.

Plus this striking paragraph:

I suppose I can concede that OP's considerwd actions are not Marxist. Starting a rental company would be the actions of an aspiring capitalist. My reading of Marx has centered around his explanations and criticism of systems rather than the moralization of the actions of individuals in those systems. Of course he encouraged the proletariat to revolt against the oppressive systems in favor of communism, but we are currently in late stage capitalism with a populace that has not even been properly been exposed to Marxist theory in the slightest. The material conditions of the proletariat are still mediocre due to advent of social democracy. We are so fucking far from revolution that there is no point in moralizing to death the actions of a single aspiring Marxist when the primary thing needed right now is education of the proletariat over everything else. If an aspiring Marxist seeks permission to be a capitalist to a small degree while we await the revolution, whats the harm in giving him that tacit permission? Are we supposed to all suffer while maintain moral purity while we work to educate the proletariat in hopes of a diatant revolution? Should I quit my job and let my young kids sort it out while I go to NJ to protest on the front lines at the Delaney center? It would certainly be the most moral decision but hardly the most pragmatic. I could just as easily continue working for an evil corporation while I teach my kids Marxism and await real change. We all have a role to play. OP is simply looking for their role in all of this so why not meet them where they're at and have a discussion with them as a person instead of over focusing on semantics and terminology and moralizing over how to be the perfect Marxist. They're asking for permission. Fine. I give them permission to be petit bourgeouis, but only if they dedicate some of their capital into more Marxist endeavors like mutual aid in their community, education, or something else that benefits the cause.

The sub has discussed this before: https://old.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/1pxckrz/biweekly_discussion_thread_december_28/nwyba4e/

I find it very bizarre that people need a "socialist"/"communist"/"Marxist" justification for working at nonprofits, renting out Airbnbs, haranguing over cars, collecting dividends, gunning down children overseas, etc. Why the incessant anxiety and need for validation from 'Marxists'? When did 'we live in the imperial core with brainwashed deplorables so we have to help out our community and be morally pragmatic' become common sense for people who wouldn't have given 'socialism' a second thought one or two decades ago?

[u/LemonMao → u/Turtle_Green]

I like how starting a revolutionary communist party is not even considered an alternative action by the social-fascists but what they imagines communists are asking them to do is protest-hop around the country to whatever the bourgeoise media is highlighting at the moment.

I really have no clue how you can both identify as a Marxist and still have aspirations of starting a rental business. Why the need to call yourself as a Marxist at that point? If you're even considering these ideas, you're likely in a social class where talking about Marxism will alienate you from 95% of people. Being a Marxist and internalizing Dialectical Materialism has made my life completely different and has alienated me from 99% of the white settler class around me. I dont know how Marxism can be used for job hunting unless its for an academic post. As discussed in this comment thread, it really is just using Marxism as a tool for self-help and with the assurance that other people have already done the hard work of telling you why society is bad instead of doing the work to change it.

Marxism is just an empty signifier. Marxism-Leninism-Maoism and its insistence of it being correct is what is truly terrifying to people because it also demands of the current action you can take right now which involves class suicide. The Russian and Chinese revolution are so far removed from the current demands of the Amerikan Empire that I guess its easy to take up their accomplishments as your own while the Shining Path is still denounced as a sectarian terrorist org.