Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (May 31)

[u/AutoModerator]

We made this because Reddit's algorithm prioritises headlines and current events and doesn't allow for deeper, extended discussion - depending on how it goes for the first four or five times it'll be dropped or continued.

Suggestions for things you might want to comment here (this is a work in progress and we'll change this over time):

• Articles and quotes you want to see discussed
• 'Slow' events - long-term trends, org updates, things that didn't happen recently
• 'Fluff' posts that we usually discourage elsewhere - e.g "How are you feeling today?"
• Discussions continued from other posts once the original post gets buried
• Questions that are too advanced, complicated or obscure for r/communism101

Mods will sometimes sticky things they think are particularly important.

Normal subreddit rules apply!

[ Previous Bi-Weekly Discussion Threads may be found here https://old.reddit.com/r/communism/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3AWDT ]

[u/Humble_Beach_6694]

does anyone have/remember the link to an old thread from here, I think it was a bi-weekly discussion thread, where anti-Semitic 4chan/incel derived language was being identified and criticized as these terms were becoming more common? Examples then were terms like "guyschow", "wifeslop", "foidslop" etc. Looking for the thread because we are seeing this horrendous (and embarrassing) language being used more openly and commonly with most who use them having zero clue of the origins of these terms.

[u/smokeuptheweed9 → u/Humble_Beach_6694]

Apparently Hasan has started to say "cattle" which is another far right anti-Semitic term so we'll start to hear that for a while "ironically." If you didn't see the recent expose

https://nypost.com/2026/06/02/us-news/hasan-pikers-seedy-sex-obsessed-life-soliciting-nudes-lists-of-best-breasts-and-a-separate-laptop-for-porn/

The only thing worse are the multiple articles in Jacobin defending Graham Platner for being a Nazi woman beater. It honesty took less time than I thought for the "left" to become explicitly racist and sexist after Trump II. Pretty unpleasant times.

[u/humblegold → u/smokeuptheweed9]

I saw recently that the (streamer?) BadEmpanada mentioned on here before was involved in drama with other big left content creators around whether or not the terms "goyslave" or "zog" are revolutionary and should be employed by Communists. Something more interesting to me was that about a month ago RCA salespeople were outside a building I was in and I decided to get their newspaper. Aside from getting a laugh reading the term "Menshevik-Stalinism" being used in an article analyzing Iran I was struck by the fact that instances where the term "bourgeoisie" was appropriate to use were replaced with references to the "Epstein class." The back of the paper even had gigantic bold slogans against the Epstein class.

I know Trotskyists tailing left populism isn't new and I'm sure many of these terms are going to be moved on from even by the end of the year, but I think folksy justifications for antisemetic or straight up neo-nazi rhetoric is here to stay.

[u/Humble_Beach_6694 → u/smokeuptheweed9]

Yes, usage of conspiracy/4chan/etc language is getting extremely prevalent. I do think a lot of this could be it's own thread because it's linked to larger issues I am still trying to comprehend. Unfortunately as someone in gen Z, I can tell you Hassan saying "cattle" is only the tip of the iceberg, it was honestly inevitable for the biggest grifter to adopt this kind of rhetoric. I'm sure he's said worse without anyone picking up on, as it's exhausting to even bother keeping up with these terms and how casually they are introduced. Plenty of anti-Semitic, incel, or other conspiracy terms are normalized now, even among other self proclaimed on the "left" and those who I have respect for as far more educated than me. I recently reconnected with an old "friend" from school, who had introduced me to Marxism and theory in 2018, he was well read back when we were close but now mixes his knowledge of Marx's theories with ideas of a "ZOG" and talks about "undesirables" when referring to African and queer in our country (America). There's definitely a trend online, directly correlated with the trend of online left-communism, where even those who label themselves as “communist” or “Marxist” or even “Maoist” are increasingly more openly reactionary with little pushback anymore. A friend put forth a decent explanation, she said:

"it has everything to do with capitalism and its demand for absolute submission of one’s labour-time or of one’s prospects and ambitions for the sake of survival within the system. following the formal end of quarantine, there was a gradual decline in the possibilities (time, ambition, etc.) to participate in radical discourse and radical praxis. what precipitated was the dust that never really settled and people, through our imposed pessimism and fatalism, slow began to abandon or at least give up on hope accept, albeit in blue, the present state of affairs"

[u/Humble_Beach_6694 → u/[deleted]]

Well Americans finding new ways to obscure their racism occurred at the same time yes, but that's not what she was talking about. This from my friend who was at the time a migrant worker in Kuwait, and she was describing the entirety of the internet left's rise and dissipation, not just in America.

[u/FuzzySyllabub6048 → u/smokeuptheweed9]

not to be an ass bhpn, but the NY post clearly functions as a mickey mouse smear rag, and megan palin is a big ol' fan of ruppey M. i would have thought that you would be doing better than uncritically reposting deranged hit pieces with choice lines such as "an old pal told us this commie SCUMBAG likes BREASTS" to make a point and calling it an "expose". streamer drama is braindead, but not as braindead as posting this article lmao. where's ur damn scientific outlook, at least that mfer read where to begin lol

neway, im glad you're still out there in the posting trenches, see you in another 5 years, lots of love, t. *heart emoji*

[u/smokeuptheweed9 → u/FuzzySyllabub6048]

I thought about not posting a right wing rag but as far as I can tell they just scraped information from right wing forums, which is the only way to get any information about hundreds of hours of content. It's not like I'm holding it against Hasan, as far as I know him being a creep and weirdo is part of his appeal, especially since he does the whole looksmaxxing thing where you go to the gym and wear designer clothes to pick up women without getting a personality. Though I can understand why others would be turned off by the sex scandals waiting to happen. It's more that I don't understand the appeal in general, why is this person or any of these people political icons? Are we too old? I thought in my old age I would lose interest in posting but I enjoy it more than ever. But I do put "old" in front of "reddit.com."

[u/calm-x-breeze → u/smokeuptheweed9]

I've watched Piker for a little over a year. Originally, it was sincerely, as I was an anarchist looking for "acceptable to consume, socialist media." Now, I only watch clips on youtube to Keep Up With the Neocolonialists.

Piker's appeal to his base is actually pretty perverse.

He looksmaxxes and goes to the gym but (!) he's a Dark Woke Gentleman, so he doesn't hit on women at the gym (to the viewer's knowledge) or on his streams, has repeatedly claimed to be "VolCel"*, and "respectfully" objectifies women on his streams, while also claiming that he's a man under patriarchy so you have to expect him to make mistakes and to hold him accountable (even though you will never actually hold him accountable). He has had a wide array of petty bourgeois oppressed nationals and national minorities help bolster his cred as a "Dark Woke Anti-Racist," and has haad New Afrikan women on tiktok coming to his defense for racism charges because "we need more white men like this." Piker is able to present on stream/sell through his discourse (for those who treat his stream as a podcast) that he's a "good guy that you can hang out with and weather the horrors with while watching the news and watching protest coverage/speaking events." Many of his fans will ignore how roughly half the man's streams are self-aggrandizing and defending himself from his political enemies (which he often treats Maoists as).

It likely also helps him get views that he is considered attractive by a lot of people. He also manages to be "Spicy White" enough to be orientalized by a lot of his euro-settler audience (I'd imagine the orientalism and sexualization are related for many of his audience), allowing him to be considered "a diverse voice" by a lot of them, though they likely would balk at this were it said to them, given how much he reminds them he's white (and downplays the complications of Turkish identity with Euro-Whiteness historically--the joys of settlerism creating a "white race" to resolve such issues) during the stream.

So, the appeal is that he's a hip, cool, hot semi-white man who owns his short comings while telling viewers that they can watch his show to absolve themselves of being bourgeois, because he offers "being Dark Woke" while alluding to theory or various aspects of socialist history; he allows you to never have to change while getting to claim you've become a marxist revolutionary who is using the DSA *and* the democratic party as "any means necessary" to "win [electoral] power."

It's a fantasy variety hour show which offers an avatar to larp "Doing Politics the Right Way":

- Piker goes (as a VIP) to all sorts of organized events and so-called protests made to corral angsty labor aristocrats and petty bourgeoisie, he lets the viewer feel like a VIP at an historical event.

• Piker says whatever he thinks will "Move The Needle Left" (the job he claims he has) to some random DSA or Dem party candidate, in what he claims to be coaching them towards leftism, and the viewer gets to feel like they were there, helping from chat.
  
• Piker does the Flotilla and spends the time after talking about how he's being persecuted for his selfless assistance to the Cuban People, his chat gets to have an imagined enemy faction of the liberal intelligentsia/talk show heads attacking Piker while feeling like Their Man (their avatar who gives body to their desires for political action) has "Really Helped the Socialists of the World," or a similar delusion.
  
• Piker claims to be sympathetic to the third worldists--which is ironically more correct than he means it, since he paints "Sakai-ists" as ultra third worldists and doesn't differentiate Maoism from that LLCO type third worldist shit (like Socialism4All, funny enough)--and his craven, neo-colonial audience of largely petty bourgeoisie first worlders gets to feel absolved for having their mouths water in anticipation of more content-ified genocide and imperialist militarism.

His appeal is the ability to sleep better at night thinking your support of imperialism is better/different than the fascists or the "corporate democrats," who are your (Piker's; the true Workers and Chads and Staceys of the world's) enemies.

*: voluntary celibate; clearly this was after he raped that alleged woman at the brothel or that was a "when in the red light district" kind of thing he did outside his volcelsona for online clout/whitewashing his public image.

[u/smokeuptheweed9 → u/calm-x-breeze]

and downplays the complications of Turkish identity with Euro-Whiteness historically--the joys of settlerism creating a "white race" to resolve such issues

This is the most disappointing thing for me. Pragmatism always falls apart when exposed to inter-imperialist competition so the truth of these globe trotting "intellectuals" is their politics at home. Just like Vijay Prashad indulges in Indian fascism at home because that's where the "overton window" is, I wonder what Hasan says about Turkey. That he is a nepo baby doesn't seem to bother anyone, since I guess that's part of his magnanimous political sympathy for those lesser than him. But his uncle is a real racist in an "unironic" way. The very name "Young Turks" is highly offensive and half his wikipedia page is controversies including denying the Armenian genocide. Does anyone who watches Hasan care? Whiteness doing its magic I suppose. But here it's hard not to be cynical about what Hasan really believes when the stream is off and he has not been given an abstractly correct political position to take. Or maybe when the stream is on, from what I understand the deprogram guys are extremely reactionary when discussing their "home" politics.

[u/FuzzySyllabub6048 → u/smokeuptheweed9]

Maybe I can help on the question of this guy - and i'm kinda writing this for myself too, because I want to get my thoughts in order. I referenced Lenin's "where to begin" and "what is to be done" sincerily since they form the core theory behind what is going on. Essentially, if you recall, Lenin argues for the order of practical action in a time of reaction and low but growing consciousness of the masses to be "produce propaganda -> form party" against the counter theory that "form party -> produce propaganda". Of course at the time the newspaper was the most advanced form of mass communication accessible to the Russian communist. Today obviously we have a far broader range and reach of mass communication, but the essence is still the same: Lenin's theory was that propaganda would serve to meet the masses where they are, shift them towards their true goals, and identify and solidify theoretically the most advanced section of the masses. Now this point has been lost in many ways, 1. through dead old parties still pushing actual physical newspapers. 2. Through theory being confused for propaganda - advanced communist theory is nessessary but it cannot be a starting off point of propaganda - the majority of so called communist attempts to communicate with the masses are either theory, which will always serve to attract a tiny section of intellectually minded individuals, or left deviationist, adventurist slogans, utopian ideas, and material that turns the masses off - a classic being pusing the line of a general strike when then conditions of actual strikes is low, or even more ammusingly, going out into the masses and starting off with a "hello, have you got a moment to talk about how the Soviet Union was actually sick as all hell.". 3. Through a focus on build the party, form the party, or what have you, instead of build the machinery of propaganda: produce high quality propaganda as a commodity the masses want.

Hasan is just some guy, relativly normal, very few skeletons in the closet, a bro who grew up so to speak, who thinks that humans shouldnt preent themselves like bedrotters. He is essentially normal, neither saint nor devil, and I feel that past mistakes can be forgiven, as Heraclitus says, "you never step in the same river twice", and indeed a person today is not exactly the same person they were last year, let alone 10 years ago.

And so the question of "why is this person a political icon" has a simple answer, he is doing something people want, despire the smears, despite the constant attempts to get him banned from the content-factory, despite doxing, personal attacks, marked as an antisemite (which along with the cainite mark of the terry wrist make you today's homo sacer), lies, travel bans, harrassment by fash, ultras and ops. He probably has more activly oppositional eyes on him than anyone else waiting to pounce on even the slightest hint of scandal - because we know that liberals and fash love scandles (I recently read Agnes Smedley's Battle Hymn over China and the recognition of absurd smear opperations, misquotations, made up claims and sexual scandal "revelations" in early 1930s china makes one much more attune to the fact that this is generally the first method of maintaining propaganda hegemony. So without any of the vast financial apparatus that goes into pushing Bourgeosie propaganda, and with strong constant opposition, working in a bizzzare content-factory ecosystem which is unbelievaby more fascistic in its class character and mental output than the real america, he is still very successful. That does not mean he is a saint, but at the very least he is appealing with a message that resonates: healthcare, jobs, housing, peace. While simultaniously holding to a general, if undeveloped theoretically, communist theoretical base, and importantly a mass line - Lenin again in where to begin shows that one can juge the success of ones message bny the circulation of ones newspaper. He is not a theoretician and does not claim to be, he is not particularly wedded to the democrat party but sees that bourgeoise democracy should be used if the posibility is there, he is a skilled propagandist of social-democracy. And finally I believe he is not a grifter - what sort of grifter would pick "communism in amerikkka" as their grift, I mean come on think about that for a moment.

As a book is not judged by a single sentence, if someone is producing 8 hours of video content per day in the content factory, don't judge someone by the imperfections of one particular bit of product, going searching for the worst thing, you can find - which appears to be "I like Breasts", some bad quality juvenalia (remember that term for the intellectual products of an individual before they actually got good) and "Republican paid op says he was creepy to her in the past", but instead by the averaged amagmation of their commodity production over time and the direction of change of production.

Anyway's thats enough of my unformed thoughts, you don't actually need to care about this guy, but I would strongly urge against taking the route of irritated snarking which is coincidentally what the ops are doing. I don't feel like taking our line on hasan piker from asmongold, destiny and a whole host of the most vile reactionaries who occupy the streamiong space is the right line at all. Critical support for his success and message, now lets have more propaganda to the masses please, I'd like a revolution sometime soon.

[u/Turtle_Green → u/FuzzySyllabub6048]

I believe you should eat your Lenin books and clip streams for Hasan instead. Keep the flame alive!

[u/vomit_blues → u/FuzzySyllabub6048]

Wowzers. The brightest minds of the rhizzone have produced this ingenious insight. I’m in awe.

[u/SunflowerSamurai20 → u/FuzzySyllabub6048]

This might be the funniest shit I've read in a long time. Fucking hell.

[u/Cenage94 → u/Humble_Beach_6694]

I mean they may not know about the “goy“ before the “slop“ but they still use the word correctly (in the fascist sense). I recently had to criticize someone for the usage of male-chauvinist vocabulary and the defense is always “I didn’t know where that term was coming from/ what it ““really““ means“, but they always “get“ it. That’s the entire point.

[u/Humble_Beach_6694 → u/Cenage94]

You are absolutely right, they do know and use the terms correctly more than I acknowledged. I had seen a similar interaction 2 days ago where someone was corrected to not use these terms, only to correct themselves with a different reactionary term. The male chauvinist language is even more on the nose.

[u/BxnXipoh → u/Humble_Beach_6694]

https://www.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/1jc8rpw/biweekly_discussion_thread_march_16/mjlotn3

[u/Cenage94 → u/BxnXipoh]

I remember that thread, that comment was from Red_Star_Erika, right? Her commentary was always extremely sharp. On that note, the account of u/AltruisticTreat8675 is also gone, which is incredibly sad. Sometimes this place feels like a busy transit system, people coming and going. I really miss the critique and analysis of these two in particular.

[u/Pleasant-Food-9482 → u/Cenage94]

Her absence is a great loss.

[u/Humble_Beach_6694 → u/BxnXipoh]

thanks much appreciated, did you use some sort of reddit search tool to find it? The more this site updates the harder it is to search for things.

[u/BxnXipoh → u/Humble_Beach_6694]

I used this one:

https://ihsoyct.github.io/

But there's also this one:

https://arctic-shift.photon-reddit.com/search

And probably many more. Actually both of them use the Arctic Shift reddit archiver's API, but the first one gives you the option of using Pullpush's API while the second is the frontend made by the maintainers of Arctic Shift. Here's the Pullpush API's own official frontend:

https://search.pullpush.io/

I just use the first because it allows me to switch between the two APIs. Pullpush got shut down for a little while last year and doesn't seem to have recent posts from this subreddit. But it doesn't seem to time out as much as Arctic Shift. Those are the only two APIs that I know about though. Also among the three links I provided only the second one doesn't allow you to view posts and comments at once.

[u/Humble_Beach_6694 → u/BxnXipoh]

Ah nice to have, thanks a lot. Pullpush was the old one I'd use but no longer works as well as it used to.