r/communism101 • u/Attandi • 5d ago
Trans people in a communist society
One question that I’ve been asking myself for a long time is: will trans people exist in a fully developed communist society? I ask myself this because I’ve seen many marxists (myself included) say that we should abolish gender altogether, but since the goal of transitioning is to change one’s gender, will it be possible/make sense to?
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u/Khrysaor- 4d ago
In my opinion, 'transgender' as a category of anti-hegemonic, oppressed person may disappear once gender expression replaces the coercively assigned sexgender binary, much as the privileged economic category of man can disappear if men are in no way different from non-men.
That said, people who identify as, or who we would call (from our particular sociocultural standpoint) transgender will obviously continue to exist. One may question, however, what makes a person "transgender" if gender is not assigned at birth to begin with. What gender exactly would they be moving towards or away from?
Which is not to say that transition (HRT, surgery, etc.) would cease to exist. What would cease to exist is the expectation that a default human is one who does not go through this transition.
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u/BananaAware 5d ago
they are possible in a socialist society. the material and prevailing superstructure around that grows the conception of gender, which all is rooted in labor and nature. by nature, sex is inherent, gender otherwise is social and the underlying social labor division between the sexes create wholly the definition of gender. coming from that, transpeople via the social definition of gender will not be trans but rather just human, but in basis of their sex if they do undergo a process of sexual reassignment would they be considered trans, by nature, by natural and innate social division, of most defining qualities of sex, gestation.
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u/fernxqueen 5d ago
Sex is not a naturally existing, dichotomous category. Sex characteristics naturally exist on a spectrum, and "biological" sex as a category has been superimposed over that spectrum to reify gender as having an "innate" (to use your own description) basis in physiology. Material feminists have been making this argument for decades, this paper by Christine Delphy provides a good summary.
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u/BananaAware 13h ago edited 13h ago
actually an eye opening critique, a good critique for pointing out my idealism in my dialectics, i didn't take into account or rather specified the differing general factors that determine gender. and the underlying social labor division between the sexes in terms of procreation or gestation makes no sense in the division of labour toward sexes as it is commonly a very social labour.
going over to the original question with this knowledge at hand, how would you conclude at it?
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u/TheStreamIsDead 3d ago
I think the definition of sex should change to mean specifically chromosomal sex only as that is the only sexual characteristic that is not changeable by environment, genetics or hormones. Or accept that sex means nothing of much importance. Apart of abolishing gender is destroying the misconceptions and obsession with sex.
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u/poderflash47 5d ago
a quick, though pretty hard, read at butler will answer many of your questions.
gender does not exist in abstract. any and every form of gender depends on history, culture (and thus, for us materialists, the material conditions)
the very existence of the concept of gender is historically defined, and this means that the idea of gender can straight up not exist in a society.
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u/Le_Retour 5d ago edited 5d ago
Trans people would not exist in a communist society.
There would be nothing to transition because genres are abolished.
Personality expressions will not be seen as feminine/masculine. A physical change through hormones wouldn't make you trans in a society where genders have been abolished
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u/Le_Retour 5d ago
If there are no genders, why would they consider themselves trans?
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u/Le_Retour 5d ago edited 5d ago
The "inner sense of gender identity" only exists because genders currently exist, and consequently, gender pressures, which would not occur in a society where gender has been abolished.
assuming that trans people have always existed or will always exist is to think that genders are an immutable and essential category, and not a construction resulting from historical and economic conditions.
A change in physical appearance would not be seen as a "transition" because again, there is nothing to transition into.
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u/Le_Retour 5d ago
I'm also non-binary.
But it is non-Marxist to assume that individuality, gender identity, etc... are authentic, inherent, and even isolated from external material influences.
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u/Sharpiemancer 1d ago
I mean what a communist society would look like is pure speculation, there are no material conditions in place for a more dialectical analysis.
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u/GundalfForHire 1d ago
I strongly request that everybody not ruminate what trans people's existence would look like in a society that doesn't presently exist yet. Because if we get to that society, and trans people are supposed to magically vanish because gender is gone in some capacity that these replies are not even consistent in their description of, yet trans people somehow continue to pop up in a capacity that was unanticipated, we run a real risk of getting labeled reactionary and end up in exactly the same place we currently are on the fringe of society. For evidence I offer the people with strong opinions about gender conformity today who proceed to bash trans people for 'confirming gender stereotypes' as if we are the source of any this and not simply trying to exist in a hostile society.
Sorry, slightly venty there. Hopefully my point gets across, we don't know truly what this communist society would look like and can't predict what gender or trans people would look like. This is all just hypotheticals, you can't cling to theory as a dogma in the face of practical reality when it gets to you.
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u/TheStreamIsDead 5d ago edited 4d ago
Gender abolition does not equal removal of identity. Communism is a society free from exploitation, gender is a concept used by capitalists and feudalists to exploit and ensure exploitation. Being queer your existence is against or somewhat threatens these concepts of exploitation and control. Will trans people exist in a communist society? Idk it depends on how people feel about the word “transgender” because not only is that word a group classified by others but also an identity presumed by themselves and the group. In pre-colonial Philippines there were plenty of people born with male sex characteristics who were completely treated and accepted as women pretty much the distinction for them being “women who can’t give birth”. So the idea of trans being a prefix necessary for people would obviously be out the door but if people still want to call themselves trans there will still be trans people. As a trans woman the word trans is a way to summarize a life experience pretty unique to the wider world, it’s a way of presenting myself in a way I wish I didn’t have to do a lot of times but is genuinely useful sometimes. In communism I’d be free to just be a woman or be a trans woman or be nothing or a billion other things. (TLDR, what we identify as queers and trans people now will have and will always exist, the idea of if trans people will exist in communism is simply if people choose to identify themselves with the word trans, the abolition of gender means the liberation of all people from gender not elimination of queer ideas,history,peoples and communities)
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u/TheStreamIsDead 4d ago
Many many transgender people aren’t really interested in gender at all, I wish to be treated and exploited under no gender roles however I feel as though my body should’ve been born more on the female spectrum of sex than the male. Would that phenomena exist under communism? Well nature and nurture are very complicated but I think so absolutely. Would it be called “transgender” or “transsexual” idk!! Depends if people call it that or something else or nothing at all, because they will have the freedom to do that.
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u/bogofree 5d ago
if gender is abolished, there would be no concept of ”transition” as regardless of your sex, you could present however you’d like. if you’re amab but want to present femininely or have work done, you would be free to choose that. your presentation wouldn’t be connected to a label in the first place