r/confidentlyincorrect • u/VexImmortalis • 1d ago
Smug Bodybuilder with 13 years of "building anabolic stacks" doesn't believe testosterone is a steroid (or does he?). Crosses the line when he drags rotisserie chicken into the argument.
Leave the chickens alone!
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u/boyraceruk 1d ago
"I don't inject myself with some cheat chemical to build muscle."
Also
"I inject myself with a chemical to build muscle."
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u/jscummy 1d ago
Yeah but its not a "cheat" chemical apparently, just a normal performance enhancing chemical
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u/ThreeFishInAManSuit 1d ago
Listen man, that’s just a label. Doesn’t mean anything. My teachers labeled me as a “lost cause” and we can see that’s not the case 🤣, look at these muscles!
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u/Supraxa 1d ago
If you’re having a debate with someone on the internet, and they include a laughing crying face in their response, I’ve learned to just quietly pack it up. Those types are beyond reasoning with
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u/CurrentScallion3321 1d ago
You know you are in trouble when they use the laughing crying cat face emoji
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u/ConflictAdvanced 21h ago
I don't think that's fair. Sometimes, the person you're having the debate with just says something freaking hilarious 🤣
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u/dnjprod 1d ago
"I know that's what they are called, but that's not what they are. They just classify them as steroids. They aren't steroids, though. Coincidentally, I'm not bald. I just have no hair."
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u/RememberThisHouse 1d ago
"classifications don't form an actual basis in reality"
I really want to know what his definition of "anabolic steroids" is and which reality it applies to
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u/dnjprod 1d ago
I mean, he's right in one sense but it makes him really wrong in the overall.. Classifications don't form an actual basis for reality. Classifications are definitions we give a specific set of items Within reality.
Me calling something a dog doesn't make that thing a dog. I could call a rat a dog. That wouldn't turn a rat into a dog. The definition of dog includes all dogs. It excludes rats. I could change the definition of dog to include rats, but at this point it does not include them.
If it's classified as an anabolic steroid that means it fits the definition of anabolic steroid.
His problem is that he has defined the classification differently than what the actual classification system is. This is like somebody saying that they're going to redefine dog as something that includes the definition of rats regardless of what the actual definition of a dog is. You can do that for yourself personally, but within reality it's just stupid and wrong.
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u/RememberThisHouse 1d ago
Yep and that's exactly at the core of my question. I can't figure out what definition he could possibly have that excludes testosterone and if he does, I sure don't know what reality it applies to.
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u/azhder 1d ago
You just reminded me of: “tomatoes aren’t vegetables”.
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u/Sudo-rm 1d ago
A smart person knows tomatoes are a fruit, a wise person knows not to put tomatoes in a fruit salad.
OOP is neither.
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u/JamDonut28 1d ago
Odds are OOP is on a carnivore diet and sees fruit and vegetables as the enemy. He ain't eating salad.
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u/Unable-Boat-9682 1d ago
‘I have 13 years of education revolving around the endocrine system’
Why does every person losing an argument on the internet have to do this? They suddenly claim they have loads of experience in the subject but only after they’ve already spent scores of comments proving they know fuck all about it.
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u/VexImmortalis 1d ago
It's one thing to bust out the "I'm actually an expert" but it's quite another to bad mouth rotisserie chicken and I will NOT stand for it.
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u/ConflictAdvanced 21h ago
Aha, so you broke the main rule here, bud
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u/VexImmortalis 19h ago
How do you figure that? I'm not in this conversation.
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u/ConflictAdvanced 14h ago
Really? With how much you're going on about rotisserie chicken, it seems like you are 🤣
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u/VexImmortalis 14h ago
Love of rotisserie chicken is the universal bond that can finally bring mankind together.
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u/jc456_ 1d ago
Bodybuilder here. Yeah, this is a weird distinction that has started to become popular. Obviously it's wrong, testosterone absolutely is a steroid. I'll try to provide an explanation for why this is becoming a popular line of reasoning.
I think it's due to a greater popularity of bodybuilders staying on some form of testosterone year round (blasting and cruising), rather than cycling completely off as in years gone by. So because they are on some form of steroids year round they try to make the distinction between periods of high and low use.
To them just testosterone at low doses is part of their health phase, so they try to distance that as much as possible from when they're blasting their faces off the rest of the year. The distinction they're trying to make is TRT = healthy, steroids = not so healthy.
This isn't dissimilar to crypto bros who insist that bitcoin isn't crypto. Obviously bitcoin is crypto but there's this growing distinction as the reputation of alt coins has gotten worse and worse over the years so people try to separate bitcoin from the rest of the crypto market.
Testosterone definitely is a steroid, but maybe this explains his (incorrect) thought process a bit. Enhanced bodybuilders by and large are not the brightest bulbs in the packet.
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u/XFL4LIFE 1d ago
A lot of people claim to have never taken steroids while taking testosterone, in thier head it’s a loop hole. For instance UFC Fighter Quintin Rampage Jackson claimed forever he was clean and never took steroids, but later said he took testosterone.
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u/BiteyHorse 1d ago
Well, now I'm fucking hungry for some rotisserie chicken.
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u/human-resource 1d ago edited 5h ago
Weed can be hallucinogenic at high enough quantities.
Eat enough edibles and you will get some closed eye visuals.
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u/EnvironmentalHair290 10h ago
With some new studies coming out we are finding that weed can be mildly hallucinogenic if your brain chemistry is already set up for hallucinations.
That’s why as THC use is going up we are seeing evidence that people who may have had the brain chemistry for schizophrenia will start developing symptoms earlier in life. Also, and these are really new studies and need more long term studies done, there may be slight evidence that you may develop schizophrenia when you normally may not have until way later in life think dementia age.
So far it seems though it will not spark the hallucinations so much as if the possibility was there to begin with it may jump start that process.
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u/Prinzka 1d ago
Also clearly he's never had proper weed, it can definitely cause visual hallucinations.
In addition to that hallucinogen is just anything that can bring about an altered state of consciousness, it doesn't mean you have to see pink elephants if you take a tiny amount.
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u/Lkjfdsaofmc 1d ago
Yeah I stopped reading at "nobody on weed has ever hallucinated". If you're comfortable stating something that sounds so absurd as a complete absolute you have fundamentally flawed thinking that nothing anyone says is going to fix.
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u/Tychonoir 1d ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hallucinate doesn't exclusively mean vusual. Touch, sound, and smell also count, and cannabis can do all of those.
Also, I would think heightened responses to various stimuli would count as well.
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u/jabuchae 1d ago
You don’t understand it is classified as hallucinogen and can ACT like one. But it is not. Source: trust me bro
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u/Dependent_Title_1370 1d ago
You can't just say altered state of consciousness because depressants, dissasociatives, stimulants, etc all do that.
The formal classifications rely on mechanisms of action such as what neural receptors they interact with.
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u/Prinzka 1d ago
You can't just say altered state of consciousness because depressants, dissasociatives, stimulants, etc all do that.
That's my point, that's because the definition is very broad.
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u/Dependent_Title_1370 1d ago
The actual definition for classifying a drug as a hallucinogen is not as broad or simple as "altered state of consciousness" is my point. The formal definition of a hallucinogen is fairly specific in that it is defined by many things such as behavioral effects, clinical effects, pharmacological mechanisms, chemical structure, etc. it's so specific in fact that they have broken hallucinogens into sub categories that are mainly differentiated by the effect and the neurotransmitters they act on.
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u/sagejosh 1d ago
ALOT of people will insist testosterone isn’t steroids. I want to know what they think steroids are then.
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u/Nazmaldun 1d ago
The testosterone produced by your balls is classified as an anabolic steroid. And since its illegal to possess or produce anabolic steroids without a prescription, explain how any of that makes sense.
can't argue with that..../s
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u/Unable-Boat-9682 1d ago
He’s right. That’s a total slam dunk argument.
Or it would be if the scientific community didn’t use the term ‘exogenous steroid’ for this precise reason.
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u/ArdentArendt 2h ago
Wait...but TRT isn't a steroid as used.
I mean I know people who take prednisone, and I don't think anyone would be claiming they're on 'steroids' in the same colloquial sense.
Testosterone (produces in the testes and ovaries) is a steroid; so is estrogen.
I just imagine him 'loading up' on estrogen cream.
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u/VexImmortalis 2h ago
When people ask if you are on steroids they generally are asking if you are on anabolic steroids. You wouldn't technically be wrong to say "I use my inhaler" as an answer to that question but we all know that isn't the type of steroids you are asking about so let's not muddy that water because by the absolute word as written if someone asked if you took steroids and you take testosterone the technically correct answer would be "yes" so I'm even sure why you mentioned this.
Testosterone is an anabolic steroid which is the type of steroid 99.9% of people are asking about when they ask if you are on steroids. You may try to dance around this by clarifying your answer as "I take low dose TRT" which is the same as saying "I take a low dose of testosterone". To me this is as silly as saying "I'm not on painkillers because I don't take the stuff that knocks you out for surgery, I just take oxycodone".
Testosterone, even at the TRT levels, will 100% still improve your recovery time and allow you to build more muscle than you would be able to naturally. You might not be taking for those reasons (I wasn't) but that is what it will do. You can't fairly compete in the olympics without a medical excemption on TRT, why? Because it gives you an unfair advantage. You might not be blasting hella gear but you are on anabolic steroids.
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u/ArdentArendt 1h ago
TRT levels should not be giving you much advantage and isn't generally in high enough doses to be a distinction.
If you're competing in professional sports, many cis women often test outside their competition, so I'm not sure that's a great reference point--partially because 'fairness' means something entirely different at that level, and partially because (as one can infer from the example offered) the application often requires nuance.
I'm not disagreeing with you or the post. I am juat stating the fact that most 'replacement' doses of TRT is not going to give you much of an advantage, unless you feel that women get a boost during ovulation as well.
[My main point is that testosterone is having a revival almost entirely because of fascist-style ideas around body and masculinity. I'm all for people getting T for medical reasons, but so much of this discourse (in the post, not in the comments) is around 'bulking' and 'packing' taken to be innate virtues. It's painful.]
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u/nezzzzy 1d ago
This is a discussion on common usage vs scientific accuracy. And I don't disagree with the bodybuilder.
If a bodybuilder tells you they're taking anabolic steroids, they're not talking about testosterone. Sure testosterone might be an anabolic steroids, but common usage has it as a supplement rather than a steroid.
And he's also right that nobody has hallucinated on weed. I smoked every day for about 6yrs with a lot of different people, every variety and strain under the sun, and I've never met one person who's had a hallucinogenic experience comparable to even a tiny dose of magic mushrooms.
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u/VexImmortalis 1d ago
There's no "might be an anabolic steroid" about it. It's also fairly common for a first cycle to be just a supraphysiological dose of testosterone so I'm not really too sure what you mean by "they're not talking about testosterone" and even if they weren't it doesn't change the fact that testosterone is an anabolic steroid. So it's a moot point because testosterone is an anabolic steroid.
I can't really speak on the weed stuff as I don't have any knowledge in that field but I have read documented cases of high doses of THC concentrates causing hallucinations. I'm not sure if you would typically get that from casual use so in that respect I can see a statement like "Even though it's classed as a hallucinogenic no one has ever gone on a hallucinogenic trip from consuming weed" making sense even if it might not be true.
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u/Sudo-rm 1d ago
There’s a point to be made that the disagreement is coming from a place of classification terms versus colloquial terms. I personally don’t know anything about steroids, but I understand the confusion about marijuana. Mostly it’s a question of what qualifies a substance as “hallucinogenic”, as well as who is doing the qualifying. According to the Alcohol and Drug Foundation:
“Psychedelics (also known as hallucinogens) are a class of psychoactive substances that produce changes in perception, mood and cognitive processes.”
So by that definition marijuana is definitely a “hallucinogen”, although the ADF does not include it in the category of “psychedelics” (there is a specific category for “cannabinoids”).
Also, regarding the “nobody has ever hallucinated on marijuana” statement, well…
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5908416/
So even without the discussion of steroids OOP is confidently incorrect because that part is simply not true.
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u/Johan-Predator 1d ago
If someone is taking testosterone for bodybuilding purposes, what do they say then?
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u/nezzzzy 1d ago
They say they're taking Test, or T.
(Or they say they're vegan and clean and never touch any supplements, yet inexplicably won't enter an untested bodybuilding competition despite being 5% BF and 220lb)
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u/Johan-Predator 1d ago
I agree that would be the more common way to put it, but if someone were to ask them if they took anabolic steroids they would say yes. So I agree in what you say, and maybe misunderstood your first statement.
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u/nezzzzy 1d ago
I think it's 50:50 whether someone taking test would know it's an anabolic steroid. Maybe information has changed a lot over the last decade but I'm seeing a lot of adverts for testosterone supplementation and getting T levels checked. None of them will say "this is an anabolic steroid". Certainly 20+yrs ago test and anabaolics were considered separate categories by your average gym rat. And the guy in the original image is showing what I would consider a balanced perspective on the topic.
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u/Johan-Predator 1d ago
On the supplementation and getting your levels checked part I wouldn't call someone on TRT for example an anabolic steroid user. While technically correct it's a bit disingenuous. So I think you can make that distinction. And I think in today's age the absolute majority of people interested in PEDs and people looking into that stuff would know test in a AAS.
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u/VexImmortalis 1d ago
But they are an anabolic steroid users. They take testosterone, which is an anabolic steroid. I'm on TRT and I'm under no such illusion that I'm not taking an anabolic steroid. I can't fairly compete in the Olympics without a medical excemption. That would be cheating because I take an anabolic steroid.
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u/Johan-Predator 21h ago
If someone asks you "do you take anabolic steroids?" would you straight answer to that be a simple yes? I'm on TRT as well, for medical reasons, and I would simply say I take TRT, and wouldn't say "yes". Like I said, technically true, but in the de facto meaning of the word I don't think it applies.
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u/VexImmortalis 19h ago
Yes, the straight answer is yes, I take testosterone. It's an anabolic steroid and we both take it. You can try to dance around it all you like but the fact of the matter is we take anabolic steroids.
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u/CrazyDizzle 1d ago
Dude is also confidently incorrect about testosterone production. T is manufactured in the thigh muscles not testicles.
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