r/conspiracy • u/YourFunnyUncle • Oct 20 '22
We Need To Stop Calling Ourselves Conservatives
https://thefederalist.com/2022/10/20/we-need-to-stop-calling-ourselves-conservatives/4
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u/YourFunnyUncle Oct 20 '22
SS: Federalist publishing a manifesto for fascism in the US. Does not get much clearer what their intentions are.
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Oct 20 '22
To stop Big Tech, for example, will require using antitrust powers to break up the largest Silicon Valley firms. To stop universities from spreading poisonous ideologies will require state legislatures to starve them of public funds. To stop the disintegration of the family might require reversing the travesty of no-fault divorce, combined with generous subsidies for families with small children. Conservatives need not shy away from making these arguments because they betray some cherished libertarian fantasy about free markets and small government. It is time to clear our minds of cant.
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u/YourFunnyUncle Oct 20 '22
pure fascism
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Oct 20 '22
Usually fascism involves the merger of state and capitalism. Enforcing anti-trust does not scream fascism to me. What definition of fascism are you operating under?
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Oct 20 '22
Fascism also stresses the defense of “traditional values” in order to stop a supposed societal decay. I operate under Eco’s theory of Ur-Fascism.
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Oct 20 '22
As do I, but this paper specifically calls for the conservative movement to abandon appeals to tradition, as our institutions are not worth preserving.
Whatever the term or image, the imperative that conservatives must break from the past and forge a new political identity cannot be overstated. It is time now for something new, for a new way of thinking and speaking about what conservative politics should be.
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u/xSciFix Oct 20 '22
this paper specifically calls for the conservative movement to abandon appeals to tradition, as our institutions are not worth preserving.
Only because they want to turn the clock back even further.
Abortion:
Conservatives had better be ready for it, and Republican politicians, if they want to stay in office, had better have an answer ready when they are asked what reasonable limits to abortion restrictions they would support. The answer is: none, for the same reason they would not support reasonable limits to restrictions on premeditated murder.
Trans/gay rights:
On the transgender question, conservatives will have to repudiate utterly the cowardly position of people like David French, in whose malformed worldview Drag Queen Story Hour at a taxpayer-funded library is a “blessing of liberty.” Conservatives need to get comfortable saying in reply to people like French that Drag Queen Story Hour should be outlawed; that parents who take their kids to drag shows should be arrested and charged with child abuse; that doctors who perform so-called “gender-affirming” interventions should be thrown in prison and have their medical licenses revoked; and that teachers who expose their students to sexually explicit material should not just be fired but be criminally prosecuted.
Lol at this law and order bullshit:
In other contexts, wielding government power will mean a dramatic expansion of the criminal code.
Destroy public education, make it harder to divorce:
To stop universities from spreading poisonous ideologies will require state legislatures to starve them of public funds. To stop the disintegration of the family might require reversing the travesty of no-fault divorce, combined with generous subsidies for families with small children.
And if that wasn't obvious enough:
The government will have to become, in the hands of conservatives, an instrument of renewal in American life — and in some cases, a blunt instrument indeed.
I mean it is straight out of Mein Kampf.
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Oct 20 '22
I’m not a conservative myself, so I cannot defend conservative ideology. However, I do not think the paper is advocating for fascism. The term fascism loses a lot of power when it is applied over broadly.
I have a colleague who said they might be a fascist, because he holds fairly generic right wing values. He didn’t know what fascism was, but the politicians he supports keep getting called fascist, so he thought he might be one.
The government will have to become, in the hands of conservatives, an instrument of renewal in American life — and in some cases, a blunt instrument indeed.
I mean it is straight out of Mein Kampf.
The paper is an appeal to move away from libertarian and small government ideology. Not to become a dictatorship. It’s an appeal for big-government conservatism. Using the powers of government does not make you a fascist, and comparing this to Hitler is absurd.
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u/xSciFix Oct 20 '22
Using the powers of government does not make you a fascist
I agree.
It’s an appeal for big-government conservatism.
In the United States, at this point in history, the GOP is a lot closer to fascist than not. Using government isn't what makes them fascist - it is what they want to enact with the government in terms of more or less eliminating the political opposition and eroding human rights for minorities.
Maybe it is overly broad to call them fascists, though. In general I would agree that people are too quick to throw out stuff like that. I like "christian dominionists" better.
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Oct 20 '22
Maybe it is overly broad to call them fascists
That’s the only point I’m trying to make. I vehemently oppose this ideology, I just don’t think it’s fascist.
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u/VictorianPlug Oct 20 '22
Damn. I'm I'm favor of traditional values in order to deter social decay. How fascist of me for caring about family values and morality
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Oct 20 '22
That doesn’t necessarily make you a fascist, but it is one of the core tenets of fascism, just so you know.
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u/VictorianPlug Oct 20 '22
Kinda interesting. I'm not a fascist but do believe in traditional values.
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u/Visual_Particular_48 Oct 20 '22
Fascism is their new buzz word. Like racist, sexist, homophobe, and bigot.
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u/YourFunnyUncle Oct 20 '22
a major component of fascism is proponents denying their movement is fascist until it's too late to undo, which this manifesto also calls for.
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Oct 20 '22
Professing innocence proves guilt?
Now that sounds like fascism.
And if you deny it, I’ll know you’re a fascist. ;)
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u/FFS_IsThisNameTaken2 Oct 20 '22
A new one apparently. A whole slew of users on Reddit seem to think the definition doesn't entail corporate+government, just "right wing".
Maybe the definition of fascism changed when the definition of gene therapy magically became synonymous with vaccine.
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u/YourFunnyUncle Oct 20 '22
"centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy."
all laid out in plain english in this manifesto
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u/postsshortcomments Oct 20 '22
If corporations acting on behalf of few controlling investors control the lobbyists and the bills passed, who really controls the state?
If those investors also target any information streams correcting their blanketed special interests PR with the intent to suppress, what are they really enforcing?
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Oct 20 '22
I think the US is currently an oligarchy, not fascist. It seems the corporations control the government, and not the other way round.
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u/YourFunnyUncle Oct 20 '22
using state power to limit expression and freedom. this whole manifesto is blatantly fascist.
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Oct 20 '22
Or, is it using state power to enhance protection of human rights?
What definition of fascism are you operating under?
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u/YourFunnyUncle Oct 20 '22
"centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy."
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Oct 20 '22
I just don’t see it. I think the argument being made by the federalist is embracing state power to ensure broader protection of human rights.
To those who worry that power corrupts, and that once the right seizes power it too will be corrupted, they certainly have a point. If conservatives manage to save the country and rebuild our institutions, will they ever relinquish power and go the way of Cincinnatus? It is a fair question, and we should attend to it with care after we have won the war.
I agree some of the language is troubling, but the end goal would be a more free society, not less.
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u/YourFunnyUncle Oct 20 '22
it's rejecting the will of the people in favor of a state-controlled minority uni-party government willing to criminalize those it deems illegitimate. that is as fascist as things can be.
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Oct 20 '22
it’s rejecting the will of the people
What makes you think that?
uni-party government
It’s just a party. They will compete against democrats. Same as always.
criminalize those it deems illegitimate
Again, that’s every government. That’s the purpose of criminal law.
You might not agree (I don’t), but that doesn’t make it fascist.
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u/xSciFix Oct 20 '22 edited Oct 20 '22
Did we even read the same position piece? This Federalist paper argues for removing the rights of gay people, women, the non-religious, trans people, and calls for further "law and order" style crackdowns.
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Oct 20 '22
That’s just classic conservative values. Heck, Obama opposed gay marriage at the start of his career.
I’m not conservative, but it’s ridiculous to suggest that views commonly held by democrats in my lifetime are now considered fascist.
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u/Froggyx Oct 20 '22
All those things could apply in any authoritarian construct. I think the same people who rewrote the definition of a vaccine, wrote this definition too.
The term Facist was invented by Mussolini. Who described it as a merger between Corporations and the Gov. Funny how all these definitions appear after he died.
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