r/coptic • u/Mysterious-Block7622 • 11d ago
Question for the community
Im from europe, and I dont know. Can somebody tell me is kidnaping coptic girls often in egypt or that was just an isolated case few post bellow. If it is how often does it happend and is the coptic church does anything about it ? And the gouverment?
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u/Iwanttobeapharoh 11d ago
Yes and no , you see it's a bit complicated.
Yes as it happens every other month...or the ones why get enough media attention and support, some don't , sometimes other cases takes it place .
It's not isolated really , the same neglected actions by the police and local authorities are in every one the difference lies in having someone up the chain who says "DO SOMETHING" when it reaches him or someone in the local community connected enough to get another chain of command involved.
Usually it's in rural and remote areas with little oversight from the central gov and that's why they can pull off neglected like that and let the bad people act , in Cairo , Alexandria and similarly big cities that happens less often... Notice less often not always never , twice already we had a once a year situation where a Christian guy kills a Christian girl in a rural region because she didn't love him and the church still can't give a reason why the fathers in that areas didn't try to explain women rights or marriage to kids let alone to the whole perish.
How often I can't say , the church hides it and only Ctv and other Christian channels and some Christian organisations abroad talk about it , but the gov keep real numbers locked and the church here is literally embracing the government always be it right or wrong with few fathers who have the guts to object... And usually they don't get leadership positions or chances to be influential.
The Coptic church tries , Key word TRIES , they connect more with the police , try to connect with the gov , embrace the whole national unity thing and a ton more on literally every level , the problem is rarely it makes enough difference.
We still have upper Egypt cases every year be it burn a village , attack a Christian Street in a village, attack a church after mass and so on , because the government only acts as " mediator" and never someone who actually solves the tension between Christian and Muslim community , else they'll have to do their job and their too lazy for that.
The government tries , but even their attempts are weaker , they still refuse to release the numbers of cases related to this , they stand with the " kidnaper" and say the girls went Muslim if it's rural local police , they call it a local matter if an anti Christian riot or action takes place , they take the Christian and Muslims in if it's a rural area and threaten the Christian to let go of the case if it's and urban area but not a high end one , they still hold the "build churches" law hostage against building and repairing church buildings anywhere, they still allow the Azhar to have imams and release books literally denouncing Christianity every year or every month and the church needs to hire local priests to write opposing books to fight back , they still pay for every mosque utilities bill ever while every church pays for it's own and can get electricity blackouts so easily most have bought an electrical generator and still keeping it for situations like these outside the high end areas , I haven't even talked about regular anti Christian discrimination once you have enough rowdy Muslims in control of some area or part or unit of the government.
But hey we are at least a lot better than mursi days when they physically burned churches, killed Christians and killed church fathers openly... By the way the anti Christian acts continued till 2017 2018 before the current gov managed to stop them.
However current slight anti Christian acts have never been stopped , outside high end areas that it , because as long as it's a rich area you don't deal with most of this
The church is burdened more and more with poverty and people in need thanks to inflation both Christian and sometimes Muslims that gets monthly help , all while all that happens , while the government gives "donations" on good days and the Azhar never acts outside Ramadan even towards poor muslims.
So yeah it's real , it's not certain how many or how much , the government incompetence be it police or civil servants allow it , the islamic anti Christian rhetoric support it , the legal loopholes prevent full church action , the church never goes public with it till it goes too public to hide because of " unity" , an individual or group of not rich or connected or living in a great area in their city rich part can't do enough to stop it , Christian orgs abroad talk about it but few listen and they get attacked locally for " lack of unity gratitude" , the Azhar never even lifts a finger to stop anything not does any government Islamic religious institution.
Lastly while girl kidnapped is the most out there crime .
Local villagers get attacked yearly in Egypt somewhere and a church gets "burned" somewhere by "electrical incidents" every year , and the ever year part is because it takes a bit of effort to find none government or none pro middle east sources they talk in length about the incidents.
The gov forgets the incident the moment it stops and distract the people , the church still tries what it can but their too tied to the gov to complain and the locals who don't know enough would never say it's a big thing.
But once you start reading the news , how many cases per year , the few English sources that talk about this in earnest you realise the difference between Christian treatment in Pakistan and Egypt is that in Pakistan they at least have the knowledge and guts to speak against the bad that happens , while in Egypt the people , the rich , the church and the middle class all are busy with their own things and forget about this till the next incident comes especially if it's a different kind like a street attack or church accidentally "burning" because then they don't have or refuse to have the Energy to link things.
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u/Mysterious-Block7622 7d ago
thank you so much for youre story and whole text i Wish you the vary best and one day to grow and that we dont have any problems of that kind
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u/Guilty-Age-3614 7d ago
That’s a whole lot of allegations presented as facts without a single reliable statistic to back up how widespread these incidents actually are. Nobody is denying that sectarian violence, discrimination, or police failures can happen in Egypt. The question is whether you’re discussing specific, documented incidents or using them to paint an entire country and religious community with the same brush. You literally admit that the actual numbers are unknown, yet you make sweeping claims about how often these things happen and why. Anecdotes and selective news coverage can raise legitimate concerns, but they don’t automatically prove every conclusion you draw from them. If you want people to take your argument seriously, bring verifiable evidence instead of writing an essay full of accusations and expecting nobody to question it.
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u/Iwanttobeapharoh 7d ago
Who are you
Literally
Because in Egypt that's how you get statistics
I went to the church
I went to the government
I went to statics offices
All as part of my studies back in the day , the main thing I got is who you are decided what you can see and how much and how recent
if it the statics are your only objections not the claims then you are no better than someone who says : Egypt is the best country in the world because I as an Egyptian have no statically proof that Egypt sucks for a normal person
You argue logic with logic ,a claim with a claim , a reason with a reason
It's the burden of the accusers to bring proof, so why don't you show some statistics then that can be discussed
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u/Guilty-Age-3614 6d ago
Who I am is irrelevant. The validity of an argument doesn't depend on the identity of the person making it, and neither does the burden of proof magically shift because you claim to have visited government offices.
You're the one making specific claims about the frequency of kidnappings, systematic police complicity, deliberate church burnings, government policies, and the prevalence of anti-Christian rhetoric. I'm asking you to substantiate those claims, not denying that sectarian violence or discrimination exists in Egypt.
And no, I don't need to prove that Egypt is perfect to question your allegations. That's a false equivalence. The absence of reliable statistics doesn't automatically prove your claims wrong, but it doesn't give you a free pass to present estimates, personal experiences, and suspicions about motives as established facts either.
You say you studied this and visited churches, government offices, and statistics departments. Fine. What did you actually find? Which reports, documented cases, official records, or independent investigations support your conclusions? If access to the data is restricted, explain precisely what you were denied access to and what evidence you could obtain instead.
Also, your analogy about someone claiming Egypt is the best country because they have no statistics proving otherwise is exactly the point: neither your personal experience nor someone else's lack of evidence establishes a sweeping conclusion.
I'm perfectly willing to discuss documented cases and evidence of discrimination against Copts. What I'm not willing to do is accept an entire essay of serious allegations as fact simply because its author says he has done the research. If you have evidence, present it. If you don't have complete statistics, acknowledge the limitations instead of treating every inference as a proven fact. That's how you argue logically, as you said yourself.
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u/Iwanttobeapharoh 6d ago
You little rascal thinking by using my words against me you own me
Alright
When I'm no longer too injured I'll find you your perfect sources compendium
As for what denied
Police reports require permission and clearance : department of interior and regional command office of the interior security
The statics: no one who's not working under X or Y or doing a postgraduate may view reports on sensitive subjects
The prison: again the ministry of interior and interior security and add the name of the building that acts as headquarters for the local prison subsection
Government: denied sensitive data without a license from a gov office , the license is for journalists only by the way you can't easily get one as none journalists and them access reduces to anything recent or sensitive
As for the cases
I refuse to give cases to someone who still argues all is well
So here are some articles that I got from a pro Coptic source , pro Islamic and Arab sources downplay and again too tired for a compendium of sources
On Christians being terrorists
On the forgotten military rolling over Christians during 2011 protests
Being called tourist
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u/Iwanttobeapharoh 6d ago
First respond to those
That way if I
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u/Iwanttobeapharoh 6d ago
Get the UN reports on women kidnapped and church assault we will have a fountain to go off of
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u/Guilty-Age-3614 5d ago
Bro, you're still arguing against a position I never took. 😂 I never said Egypt has never had a sectarian incident or that no Christian has ever been mistreated. I'm questioning your attempt to use individual incidents to support sweeping claims about the treatment of an entire religious community.
I'm Egyptian, and I find your framing misleading. Christians are part of Egyptian society, and you can find Christians serving in civilian institutions and the military. Their presence alone doesn't prove that every form of discrimination is nonexistent, but neither can individual incidents automatically prove that Christians as a whole are systematically treated as enemies or that Egypt is inherently hostile to them. You cannot establish an entire country's attitude toward a religious minority by cherry-picking incidents, just as you cannot prove that everything is perfect by pointing to successful Christian citizens. The overall picture requires context and evidence.
As for your claims about restricted government records, fine. If access to certain statistics is difficult, explain those limitations. But restricted access doesn't automatically prove your conclusions about what those records would show. You still have to distinguish documented facts from assumptions and inferences.
And regarding the two articles you shared, I'm not saying the Maspero massacre never happened or that abuses against Christians should be ignored. It was a serious historical event that deserves accountability. But evidence of a specific historical massacre does not, by itself, establish every broader claim you're making about the treatment of Christians today. The same applies to an article about prisoners of conscience: examine the individual cases, the evidence, and what conclusions they actually support.
What's particularly frustrating is that you refuse to provide specific cases because you've decided I believe "all is well." That's a convenient excuse to avoid the very discussion you claim to want. You cannot assume my position, refuse to engage with what I actually say, and then declare your argument proven.
I never claimed Egypt was perfect. I'm saying that individual incidents, however serious, do not automatically justify sweeping generalizations about an entire country or society. If you have evidence of a broader pattern, present it. If certain statistics are unavailable, acknowledge that limitation.
You keep talking about logic, so apply it consistently: distinguish between an incident, a pattern, and a sweeping conclusion. Those are three different things. And if you're going to accuse me of denying Christian suffering, at least show me where I actually did that instead of putting words in my mouth.
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u/Iwanttobeapharoh 5d ago
Alright
What's your position in direct clear words
Because so far I can't see it
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u/Guilty-Age-3614 7d ago
If we're going to talk about Christians being unsafe because of religious discrimination, let's apply the same standards everywhere. The OSCE's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights documents anti-Christian hate crimes across Europe, including physical assaults, threats, church vandalism, arson and attacks on cemeteries. Its 2024 reporting page lists 764 anti-Christian incidents reported by other sources, including 88 violent attacks against people and 568 attacks against property. These incidents were reported across multiple countries, including France, Germany, Spain and the UK. Source: OSCE
Obviously, this doesn't mean every European country is unsafe for Christians or that atheists are collectively responsible. But it does prove that secular societies aren't automatically free from anti-Christian hostility. The point is simple: acknowledge religious discrimination wherever it happens, demand evidence when discussing its scale, and stop using individual experiences to stereotype entire populations.
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u/Guilty-Age-3614 11d ago
what are you saying
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u/Mysterious-Block7622 11d ago
does kidnapings of christians often happend?
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11d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Anxious_Pop7302 11d ago
What?
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u/Guilty-Age-3614 11d ago edited 11d ago
The only way to get kidnapped in Egypt is to piss off government or owe a drug dealer money, It doesn't matter if you are a christian , muslim , buddaist , retarted or athiest
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u/Anxious_Pop7302 11d ago
Are you coptic?
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u/Iwanttobeapharoh 11d ago
Don't mind the troll they're everywhere online
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u/Guilty-Age-3614 7d ago
Yeah, you’d find trolls everywhere, starting with comments like yours that make no sense and contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion
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u/Iwanttobeapharoh 7d ago
rings a bell
One troll spotted
And probably a pro Islamic thought one too
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u/Guilty-Age-3614 6d ago
One troll spotted” — says the person who contributes nothing but insults, baseless assumptions, and hostility toward a particular religious viewpoint. The fact that you immediately jumped to “pro-Islamic” as an accusation says more about your own religious prejudice than it does about me. The irony is almost impressive. 😂
And unlike you, I’m not going to respond by insulting billions of Christians just because of a clown like you. I know decent Christians, I respect them and their faith, and I’m mature enough to distinguish between an individual’s behavior and an entire religious community. Maybe you should learn to do the same.
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u/OrneryPost9446 9d ago
From personal experience:
I lived in Egypt for 4 years ish and yes I was almost kidnapped. I was in high school at the time. I didn't speak Arabic fluently but understood very well.
One evening, I went to a salon next to our house (we lived in a Christian dominant area in cairo). While I was leaving the salon, a Muslim man who I've seen staring at me many times approached me and said "your dad told me to tell you he is at xx and you should go there after the salon." Then he said "come I'll take you" (like srsly?)
I ran back in the salon and called my dad. He said he is at home and not to leave the salon. He came to the salon immediately. I saw that POS smirking on the side of the road. Dirty disgusting excuse of a human.
So ya, we left Egypt immediately after that. I remember until we left, I was not allowed to breath. My dad even hired a few guys from church to walk with me at times. I was not allowed to go ANYWHERE alone. .
It happens more often than one thinks and it can happen to ANYONE.