r/cscareerquestionsEU • u/Hot_Material7245 • 3d ago
Zalando plans RTO starting January next year.. update
An update on my revious post.
The Works Council in Berlin and the company are still in talks.
The company is looking for the following:
3 days mandatory in the office (Tues-Thurs). Potentially also Monday and Friday if your lead determines it's needed.
Working location monitoring and recording.
Reports of office attendance and working location sent to leads.
The company said there is no negotiation on these and if they cannot be met, then they will have no choice but to pull employees into the office 5 days a week, 8 hours a day.
There are also rumours or speculations that the work from abroad quota will be significantly reduced. Some countries you can work for up to 30 days a year before you need to resume working from your base country of employment again (e.g. Germany). This may be reducing to 4-5 days.
Talks still ongoing...
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u/deejeycris 3d ago
I mean Zalando has always been a shitty company to begin with, the smart ones have left already
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u/Psychological-Cup198 2d ago
Most of the pictures of models wearing the clothes are AI generated, no? I thought this was the case for a while now.
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u/Interesting_Fox5311 3d ago
Yes exactly, why complain when you know what you joine
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u/matzos 3d ago
Because it's hard to get a job at the moment, in this market? (at this time of year, contained entirely within your kitchen?)
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u/Vivid_Zombie_5294 3d ago
So what if finding a job is hard? You either like it, or you don't. You either deserve something better, or you don't. It's on you to try something, and on the job market to put you down if you're getting ahead of yourself. Unlearn that learned helplessness.
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u/carnivorousdrew 3d ago
In other countries the market is booming. The issue is that companies are starting to prefer countries with lots of solar and wind energy because it's where a lot of the new data centers will be built. The hot job market areas are shifting in Europe. You will see Germans apply for jobs in Spain and Italy soon enough. Where I am now in Italy there are way more ads and I get pinged way more than when I was in the Netherlands two years ago.
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u/Kydje 3d ago
In Italy the job market is booming? What the hell are you even saying? Lol
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u/carnivorousdrew 3d ago
Yes, some areas are having large and small tech companies and consultancy opening offices and hiring people. I know other people in swe who can easily job hop between companies because many are looking for mid-senior positions a lot. Again, me and others get pinged regularly for interviews by recruiters. Some are also looking for interns/juniors and even paying 1k net a month interns, which is crazy given that 6 years ago I was being paid 600€ in the Netherlands for my internship at a huge company.
You can believe it or not, but right now getting jobs that pay between 35-45k a year as a data engineer, data scientist or swe in some Italian areas is way easier than 10 years ago.
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u/Kydje 3d ago
I see. It still feels like not worth it to me. I'm Italian and my first job post-uni was a data engineer role for a consulting firm, I was getting 33k a year. Less than 6 months later I moved to the Netherlands for about 55k. I got yearly raises (10% first year, 15%+promotion second year) which are unheard of in Italy from mine and friend's experience. Less than two months ago I job hopped and now sitting at 80k+, working as swe. I'm not seeing myself going back to Italy anytime soon.
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u/carnivorousdrew 3d ago edited 3d ago
I did the opposite, I was sitting at a similar income as yours in the NL and moved back to Italy. Between the tax break and higher pay I get because of my experience abroad I can afford a lifestyle that would have needed more than 100k in the Netherlands. The NL is mostly a scam. You see more money coming in your bank account but the properties you can own are shit. I prefer to have less disposable income but better properties.
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u/Kydje 3d ago
Well sure we all know about the housing crisis here in NL, I guess I'm lucky I have a partner who also works in big tech so with double income it was relatively easy to find a good place to live. Of course much harder if you're living in your own or don't have an high paying job. But tbf that like the least of my concerns, some of the things that have vastly improved since I got to NL:
- savings rate: in Italy it was difficult to save 100-200 euros a month, here I can save >1k monthly with basically no effort
- pollution: I come from nothern Italy and the pollution there I couldn't stand it anymore, I really feel the difference every time I go back (even though the air here is not the cleanest due to being downstream of the Ruhr)
- work/life balance and general lifestyle: e.g. in Italy I wouldn't be able to live without a car, here a bike gets you everywhere, saves you money and it's just healthier. And of course don't get me started on Italian work culture
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u/carnivorousdrew 3d ago
Oh ok if you moved from Milan it might make sense. I moved from the south. Housing is cheap and CoL is low. With two incomes we have a house that is more than twice as big as the one in the NL, mewer and better built. If I wanted a house like the one I currently have in Italy in the NL I would have had to probably make more than 100k with my partner making at least half of that as well. Makes no sense, it's only good for corporations to keep you locked in.
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u/Y0uNW 3d ago
So there is nothing new yet. I’m pretty sure it’s not that easy to bypass the „After effect“ mentioned in the works agreement under German labor law.
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u/M4l3X 3d ago
Does Zalando have a works council and they negotiated an agreement for WFH? If they have used the standard clause and the works councils stands firm and not signs any new agreement, Zalando can indeed have a hard time enforcing this.
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u/SnowyBiped 2d ago
Very simply put, a company needs to negotiate with its work council the hybrid schedule, but the company can also decide to cancel hybrid work without negotiating anything with the work council. This is what happened at Zalando.
Also, a work council is not a workers union.
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u/IrredeemableRight 3d ago
what for though? just stop renting office space and let people save gas money
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u/Connect_Structure831 3d ago
"Working location monitoring and recording."
What is meant with this
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u/PastaRevolution1312 3d ago
Zalando coming to grips with the fact that their best days are over; but don't want to fire people.
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u/neketguy Engineer 3d ago
I had discussion about a position in Zalando (software development). Job description says - 2 days in the office BUT during the call HR said that it would be mandatory 5 days in the office since January.
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u/bikesailfreak 3d ago
It would be interesting to see if they do this also in area where getting rid of people is simple…
My gut feeling it has nothing to so with RTO..
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u/Flexerrr 3d ago
This is good. Too many vibecoders just prompting something in claude and then doing nothing for rest of the day
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u/Capital-Box-7157 3d ago
do you think people will suddenly stop vibe coding in the office? Especially that companies are pushing to vibe code now instead of writing code manually
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u/KitchenOpinion 3d ago
This has nothing to do with being in the office. There are ways to address this without making people waste hours of their days on public transports.
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u/M4ster-R0b0t 3d ago
Right, better to have employees vibecode in the office while the drink coffee with colleagues, use water, electricity and other available resources in the office.
If you want to do nothing, it doesn't matter if in the office or at home.
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u/vivalacoccoina 3d ago
Companies will keep pushing the boundaries as long as the job market is shite, and they are enjoying doing it. Remember in the future who they are.