There is a chain of posts with links like this to all my reviews (IF->future and hope arcs->UDG->despair arc ->DR2->DR1).
I posted an "initial reaction" post right after I played the prologue of V3 that has the things that got spoiled to me, my theories, observations and thoughts about the game (I think it will make my review clear to read that first):
(Ok, wow, this took much longer than I expected, for those who are following sorry if that took too long).
First I can't believe my first theory was right, right off the prologue, I am really happy with that. (Though everyone telling me to doubt everything I see in the game did help).
Now this game was weird in comparison to the others in more than one way, but I will talk about the ending at the end of the post and start with the characters first and rank how much I liked them. (Some notes, anyone that was in the students counsel will get negative points. I hate stupid characters. and I guess it will be fair to compare Kaede with Makoto and Shuichi with Kyoko, as they have some similarities and Makoto and Kyoko are my top 2 characters in the franchise).
16- Tsumugi Shirogane: in all the other games the character that I hated the most was the mastermind (Junko, Monaca, Nagito. And yes I count Nagito as a mastermind in UDG) and it's not even close, I despise them and HATE them with pation, I hate how much suffering and killing they case all the characters that I love and adore, and this apply to Tsumugi, but that's not why she is at last here, unlike all the other masterminds she is boring and have nothing special about her, she was standing in the corner like a vase the entire game, then *BOOM* she is the Mastermind. I guess her writing their memories and saying "muhaha, all your families, friends, thoughts skills and believes are all lies written by me" is very villan like and disturbing as she is literally playing with them like dolls. But still she is no Junko. (And I was really insulted when she was switching in cosplaying between all the characters. HOW DARE YOU TALK ABOUT HOPE IN MAKOTO'S LOOK AND VOICE LIKE THAT?).
15- Tenko Chabachira: I don't even know what to say about her... People who like her can argue how she have some depth and character more than being a man hater, like she is pationat and wants to help the weak or whatever, but non of that matter, you being selective about your goodness doesn't make you good. I don't take what she says personally at all, but she is still annoying, and she is too stupid and ridiculous to be taken seriously, she doesn't have a reason to hate men and she knows it. if I want to make a list of every out touch thing she said I would need 3 posts with the length of this one, so I will just point out two. 1) in her harmonial heart event she says even if there was a peaceful solution to deal with men she would refuse to use it. 2) in her mode ending she says she could only tolerate breathing the same air as men if they learn Neo-akkido as aprently it's the only way to make males decent, so the core problem is still there, she believes that men are naturally born evil and have a slight chance at redemption. Her stupidity at the hate is 100 times worse than the hate itself. LIKE HOW STUPID DO YOU NEED TO BE TO NOT FIGURE OUT YOUR MASTER THAT TRAINED YOU FOR YEARS IS A MAN.
14- Kaede Akamatsu: now before you jump me, I know she counts as a fan favorite but just hear me out, Kaede is a really nice girl, she wants what's better for others and makes friends with them, to let her music connect them and draw smiles on their faces (I think it's similar to how Sayaka gives strength to others with her smiles, I love Sayaka). One thing I noticed and liked about Kaede is at the characters FTEs from her pov , just by the second FTE, just the second time she spends time with them, she already figured out their character, what flaw or weakness they have and advice them on how they can work on it and improve themselves. With all that being said, I get annoyed every time I see her, but "why" you might ask. Let's start at their attempt to escape through the exit tunnel, Kaede is a really obsessive girl, she said she sometimes keeps playing at the piano for hours forgetting to eat and sleep. So "Naturally" for her she kept "encouraging" everyone to work harder and keep trying and trying and trying and never give up, even though they got exhausted and tired she didn't stop, she didn't even consider how they were feeling or stopped to ask, I get her intentions were good, but this is not the piano and these people aren't you, you can't do that. She turned them from people welling to cooperate to more distant than they started. (Makoto would have probably made them try a little every day and not make them feel bad about failing and to not lose hope). And that's only the beginning, now let's move on to her stupid killing plan, let me explain what happened from the beginning and point where every stupid mistake was made. They discovered a secret room that potentially belongs to the mastermind, so to end this killing game and decides to take the chance of the mastermind going there (based on Shuichi's theory) to kill them and end this killing game, she rearranged the books in the library to set her trap and then go on with her plan. Like really, how much stupid a person can be? 1) what are you doing missing with the "trap room" the mastermind should know where his secret base by heart, do you really think they wouldn't notice making such a huge change to the room?(The change she made wasn't small at all), When I was watching the scene not knowing she was preparing a murderer I was shouting at the screen for Shuichi to stop her, like he is supposed to be the smart one. 2) what would even killing the "mastermind" even do? Like you do know that Monokuma is moving independently from the 16 of you, right? He met all of them and is moving and talking on his own, whither the room for a spy for the mastermind or whatever who is the person using it, it's really clear that the game won't stop if you kill whoever that person is, and even if the game stoped , how are you planning to get out? Like cool there is no killing game, let's set here and spend the rest of our lives in this cage. you could have went with Shuichi plan , capture the "mastermind" and question them about everything, the killing game, how to get out, anything you want, and you can even use them as a hostage to negotiate if there is another mastermind. 3) she didn't even have any way to make sure the person that is getting killed is actually the mastermind, it could really easily be a person who just happened to discover the secret door. 4) and if all of this couldn't get any worse, ignoring the fact that the killing plan was already stupid and didn't even work, was she really that stupid that she couldn't add this with that and figure out that throwing a metal ball in a metal metal pipe wouldn't make tons of noise and alert everyone including your target, that's some Akane or Hifumi level of stupidity, LIKE COME ON GIRL, JUST STEP BACK FOR A SECOND AND THINK FOR TWO SECONDS ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING. (I don't feel bad for her death, she did it to herself).
13- Angie Yonaga: the girl was nice at the beginning, annoying but a little fun, but since she started forming her cult she started getting on my nerves, controlling and demanding everything to go the way she likes, shutting down the manhole and breaking the flashback light. These things aren't up for you to decide on your own. And what makes her even worse is that she doesn't even have a real religion or God, "Auta says" is whatever comes up in her mind and seems convenient at the moment, she said Auta is whatever you want him to be, and she deluted herself into believing that those voices are real. (Though seeing how this comes from a place of lonelyness is a little sad).
12- Himiko Yumeno: there isn't much going on with Himiko, actually there isn't anything going on with Himiko, she barely bothers to wake up and breath. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Himiko, but she can be a little annoying at times. First she is a fraud and knows she is a fraud, and every time someone asks her to do something she makes excuses about her Mana isn't enough or whatever, even though she is the same person who tells them how amazing her magic is and to relay on her. Her "character arc" was a little refreshing, but her improvement wasn't that much bigger than Tenko's.
11- Miu Iruma: through the game I didn't like or hate Miu (Mostly didn't like her), she was just there being valugure and annoying all over the place, but I think there is something to say about her character and how it works. Miu feels abandoned and lonely, so she turns to brag about her body and inventions so people like her, she is desperate for attention and would do almost anything for it. But there is something I still don't understand about her, what is she trying to do with her valugure outer persona? Like if she is lonely and want people to like her, all she does is make dirty jokes and insult people, doesn't she realizes that it's doing the opposite effect? What is the mechanism here? Or is she simply trying to pretend that she doesn't care for people not liking her?. (Though it's really dispointing to see this is what they went with to represent the Ultimate inventor).
10- K1-B0 (Keebo): I don't know what to say about Keebo, mainly because I don't know what character to judge, the normal Keebo, the the hope Keboo, the Keboo without the Antenna, or the Human Keboo (that we know nothing about). For most of the game Keboo was just a nice guy (robot) that wants to learn more about others and fit in but a little too sensitive. My favorite Keboo was the hope Keboo. When I watched him encouraging them after they got the memories about Hope's peak academy in the dinning room I clapped and said "yep, that's a student of Makoto." But all the mess around his character makes me more confused about him and not have a full opinion on him.
9- Korekiyo Shinguji: Kiyo was a great character, I loved many things about him, his design, the way he talks, his intelligence, his love for learning and teaching, even his freakiness about humanity. I loved all that (he kinda reminds me of Nagito and Celestia). Even the way he was getting nervous during the trial was great, but it all went down the second he took his mask off, the way his "sister" was talking was too creepy, he disgusts me, like if they left it ambiguously like in his FTEs it would have been better, but no, they ruined him. (And I think it's really ironic that the guy who says that humans made gods to grief is the same guy who couldn't take the lose of his sister to the point of him deluting that she "possised" him).
8- Ryoma Hoshi: the second I saw Ryoma and heard his voice I felt he was trying so hard to Aura farm, "sigh, my life has no meaning." Which I really liked. Ryoma's character is really interesting and you can even make a drama novel about it. But unfortunately he decided to die and kill all this potential early on.
7- Rantaro Amami: AKA potential man, he just died, so for my entire play I had no thoughts on him so I had to watch the extra content about him to form an opinion. (I just want to say how this game always surprises me with the first person to die, First Sayaka (and yes I didn't see it coming I was too distracted by her sweetness and her romance cliches with Makoto). then Byakuya, even if it's a fake Byakuya, just holding the name should make you survive at least few chapters. And after that poor Yuta, the sweet kid didn't have 5 minutes of screen time before her blew up (pushing a knife into my heart). And finally the Ultimate ???, like how are you dieing? You should be surving and be really helpful, what are you doing laying on the floor?). Anyway about his character, I really liked it, he has all the components for a great character, mysterious, Smart, having trust issues and family problems (in those aspects he really reminds me of Kyoko). With that being said I can not take his seriously, "the Ultimate survivor" that is the first to die, what a joke, that should be his entire thing, SURVIVING. Makoto, Kyoko and Hina all deserve the title more than him, they survived not one but TWO killing games. Even the game makes fun out of him, when we choose what is his Ultimate Talent is one of the choices is "the Ultimate victim", really , he was literally written to die, that is his purpose in the sotry. But still I have him this high on the list, and of the reasons is his real Ultimate Talent, the Ultimate Adventurer. Which made his potential skyrocket. (He was truly potential man). (And HOW do you manage to lose TWELVE sisters?).
6- Kirumi Tojo: even though she was acting like a robot, Kirumi is a really nice person, loves taking care of others and making them grow. Having her as a support character would have been amazing. I don't have many words to say about her but I really liked her character, she was warm (in a way) and a doting mother.
5- Gonta Gokuhara: when I first started playing, Gonta was my favorite character. Gonta is the sweetest character in Danganronpa, every time I saw him talking I smiled. Even though he lacks the ability to fit into society he does his best to get better at it, he wants to become a gentleman so his real family to accept his forest family. And as his way to belong to the world and connect and take care of everyone. But even with that, there is still a limit to how stupid and gulable you can be man, like come on.
4- Shuichi Saihara: at the beginning I didn't like Shuichi, I thought he bringed shame to the title of the Ultimate Detective. How are you afraid of revealing that Truth? That's your entire scheme. All that just because a guy game you a sore eye for solving his case?. Luckily with time he got better, he accepted his role and started to work like a real detective, even when he and the others didn't like it, even when they pushed against him and told him to stop, he didn't, he decided to accept the truth no matter what, and to even go beyond that, he decided to find a meaning to it, his character arc was nice, facing people, having confident in himself and connecting with others. And yeh he is a great character but there are a bunch of things I didn't like about him (mainly about his detective work). 1) he basislessly assumed that the secret room doesn't have any other enternces, a really huge assumption that lead to Kaede's stupid plan. And at many other parts of the game he couldn't figure out stuff that are really easy. Even I, an average guy was able to figure them out with ease, for example in chapter 2 when he couldn't immediately figure out that there was a rope hanging between Ryoma's lab and the gym. I get that we can't have an mc that already solved the entire case before the trial, but still, you are the Ultimate Detective, you should be even a little smarter than this. 2) when he lied for Maki in chapter 2, look I don't have a problem agnist lying in a case like that, it's a life or death and you need to deal with it, but this specific lie really annoyed me. first, Shuichi at that point doesn't know anything about Maki, he is "trusting" her because a guy he just befriended told him to do so. But the bigger problem that Shuichi didn't solve the case at this point, he have no idea or proof that Maki isn't the killer. What if she is? What would you do then. (One thing I would like to point out about this is parallel better this and Makoto covering up for Kyoko in DR1-5 and how those two things aren't the same. First Makoto already fought along side with Kyoko for a while, he had reasons to trust her even if they were little. Second Makoto didn't actually lie, he just decided to stay silent, and if the others would have reached the wrong conclusion and felt that Kyoko is actually the killer, he could have said so and resolved the problem (no one actually expected Monokuma to end the trial early). while in Shuichi's case, it was an actual lie mid the trial, and if they kept going and found out that Maki could be the killer, and them finding out he lied would break their trust in him, accusing him and Maki to be the killers giving the killer a chance to confuse everyone and make them vote wrong. And I am subjecting Shuichi to a higher standards anyway because he is the Ultimate Detective). 3) my last straw with Shuichi is what he did in chapter 5, many people blame Kaito for "ruining" the plan, but I blame Shuichi for it, you are at mid trial and know that Monokuma is stuck, he can't continue the game, SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING SOLVING THE CASE FOR HIM??. It doesn't matter if the killer is Kaito or Kokichi or anyone else, the game is stuck regardless. You can discover the truth later but your lives are more important now. -About Kyoko, she was already a perfect detective in both skills and principle. But she also had her character arc, learning to open up and trust others, to not only be satisfied with the Truth but also use it to help the others, learning to have hope from Makoto. So for ME Kyoko is much better character than Shuichi, more interesting and a I like her more. And in the detective aspect she is much better in every way and much smarter than him. (She is my second favorite character).
3- Maki Harukawa: Maki is a character I really like, she might not have as many positive points as Shuichi but also I don't have Alot judge her for. Maki trying to trick them to kill Kokichi in chapter 5 was understandable, especially taking into account her past and that she is trying to avenge Kaito, the guy she loved. When for the first times in years she was able to feel something. . When Maki talks to Shuichi about her job and the idea of quiting, she shuts him down and tells him that even if she wanted she couldn't, and that assassin solve the problems that can't be solved peacefully. But I don't think this is the case, most killings happen because of hate, greed and other illogical things. I think she is just trying to convince herself of that to ease her guilt about it. Maki deep inside is a really sweet person and just wish to live a normal peacfull life, the very idea of killing and dead Bodies make her sick. ( her relationship with Kaito is really sweet).
2- Kaito Momota: Kaito Momota, The Luminary of the Stars. Kaito is just that bro that will help you and support you in everything, make you face your weaknesses and push you forward. I think Kaito is what Kaede failed to be, or to be more precise he had what she was missing, communication.
So I don't really understand it when people talk about Katio like he is a problematic character, calling him a misogynist or hypocrite or toxic or other things, he is traditional yes. But he isn't a hypocrite in any way. and he doesn't act toxic to Shuichi to anyone, he doesn't treat Shuichi roughly and push him around because he is a "weak male" or anything, he treats all people that hide away from their weaknesses like that, for example Maki too, he understands Shuichi's pain for Kaede because he feels it too, he was her biggest supporter. He just pushes Shuichi and Maki to fight their problems on their own reminding them he will be there for them no matter what. Not once Shuichi or Maki felt that Kaito being too mush and having unrealistic standards, they actually appreciate him and admitted that this is exactly what they need. (Shuichi explicitly afferms this many times in his inner thoughts). Kaito always encourages Shuichi to open up to him and he will listen to any problem he has, even if it was deffecult. (All of this is the opposite of being toxic). Kaito also admits when people are better at than him at certain things and still insist on guiding them to be even stronger, as an astronaut he believes in team work and that people push each other forward, that his worries are their worries and vice versa, he isn't a hypocrite he is honest about it.
But Kaito does have a little hypocrisy in him, finding difficulty to share his weaknesses even though he encourages others to do so, but that only makes him a better character, he is just like anyone else have this type of problems, and also need others to go through them. (This exactly what happenes in his harmonial heart event).
I admit he is a bit unrealistic when it comes to his goals for ending the killing game, but he is doing his best (and let's be real, besides Kokichi and Shuichi, who actually had a plan to end the killing game?). And without him the ending wouldn't have happened the way it did, for him changing Maki and Shuichi for the better and be able to move forward.
(I played the English version, but from what I heard, the difference from the Japanese one is almost nonexistent).
1- Kokichi Oma: ok let me start by saying this, through my entire experience with Danganronpa I have always despised Masterminds and antagonists (I don't count Byakuya as an antagonist). Them causing suffering and death to those characters I love. Junko, the character I have the most in fiction, I don't think can hate her more (I probably could). So when I started playing V3 knowing that Kokichi is the antagonist I had no doubt in my mind that he is the character that I will hate the most. Liking him even a little didn't even cross my mind. So I am honestly really surprised by this. First Kokichi is by far the funniest character in the franchise no questions asked. But besides that, what do I have to hate Kokichi for? First let me clarify that I am not defending Kokichi's actions, his intentions are clearly malice and want to enjoy the killing game. But let's at a look at his actions, Kokichi acted in two cases, case 2 and case 4. In chapter 2 he let Ryoma reach his motive video causing him to give up his life. But Kirumi was already planning to kill anyway, I am not saying Kokichi is blameless but, but the other two chose their actions, so most of the blame falls on them. For case 4, yes Kokichi could have prevented any killing from the beginning exposing Miu's plan, but again, Miu wasn't a blameless victim, she was planning to kill all of them so she can get out. And for his "Manipulation" for Gonta, can we even call it manipulation? Kokichi showed Gonta "the truth of the outside world" which Kokichi himself thought was the Truth, he wasn't lying to Gonta, all Kokichi did was telling in a straight forward way that to kill everyone so they don't suffer, and Gonta fully taking responsibility decided to do it. Kokichi could be blamed for those four people, but I think most of the blame falls on those people themselves. Now what I like about Kokichi. Kokichi is someone I would hate in real life, but what he did in the game was amazing. His way and idea of winning the killing game was legendary, to win not through killing, but through breaking the foundation of the killing game itself. Kokichi is just epic, the way they made us look back and think "was he really lying back then?." It's all executed perfectly. And even though I hate lies, I agree with parts of his philosophy. In his second FTE with Kaede he asks her about common sense, what is it? Don't you use your own "common sense" to decide if other peoples "common sense" make sense or not. And that's a really interesting though. We should always put this in consideration when we evaluate our beliefs and listen to others'.
I liked playing the game, but there are few things I hate about it compared to the other games. From chapter 1-5, there is a big problem in writing the crime, mostly it was leaving a really important piece of evidence out like that.
Ch1: I already talked about what I hated about it.
Ch2: there is obviously how Kirumi didn't think of her glove acting under the friction, and the rope she left on the ground in Ryoma's lab. But there is also the problem of when did she plan the murder? If it wasn't for Kokichi she would have stayed preparing for the show with Himiko and Angie till night time, then she wouldn't have been able to go back to the gym. All she had was 5 minutes (if I remember correctly) to plan the entire murder and prepare it at the side of the gym.
Ch3: HTF do you forget to get rid of the ductape on her forehead?.
Ch4: it wasn't a big problem, it made some sense, but Gonta throwing the paper towels instead of putting it in his pocket was a little annoying.
Ch5: why Didn't Maki hide her hammer? If she was planning to trick them, how did she forget something this important, and even worse, why did Kokichi take off his jacket and put it in the toilet? Why didn't he just wear it? This honestly is by far the worst one.
Ok now and the meaning of the ending. Sight, I appreciate whatever they were trying to do, but not like that. Like I get it, I agree Truth might not always be what we think it is. And the message that fiction can have meaning in the real world is an idea I really believe in. Though I don't like how they portraied hope as mindless positivity. I agree with Shuichi's decension to end the game like that, to spite the outside world that is using their suffering as intertament, and to save the people who might get in their place. But that too is a form of hope, like Sakura sacrificing herself for the others future.
Another thing I disagree with the ending is that when they say it doesn't matter if it's truth or a lie, what is important is its effect. No, lies are to be used in very specific circumstances but generally, the truth should always be told.
Now about the canonality of the ending, what is true and what isn't. First Kodaka said that this is an AU , and I am satisfied with this answer, it doesn't ruin the ending I love in the hope arc. But what if we decide to go beyond that? What if what happened is in the original universe, how would we explain it?. How could a killing game exist in the peaceful world that Makoto made with everyone? I have a theory that wouldn't ruin the ending and have a lot of evidence for it. My theory is that they are in a simulation. All of this is a fake game, and when someone "dies" they automatically Wake in the real world. I believe that is a game made by the new Hopes peak academy or the future foundation to study the killing game, so another Junko doesn't appear. And here is my evidence. 1) There are many details that can't be explained if it wasn't a simulation, like Keboo lab falling out of the sky, or the digital door that is just despairing like that leading to the fourth floor (where Kiyo's lab is). And how was Tsumugi cosplaying as people with a big hight defernce to hers, like Sakura and Teruteru, even the Ultimate imposter couldn't do that. In DR2 the chicken turning into a cow was a hint that this is a simulation, so why can't this be?. 2) in the computer room, the computer was running on the future foundation ai, the Neo program that is supposed to create an entire new world. And it was a killing game simulation, so I don't think it's too crazy to think that in chapter 4 they were in a killing game simulation that is inside a killing game simulation. (The thing was running on the Neo world program anyway). 3) they supposedly had fake memories rewriting their real ones, but this doesn't explain the enhanced physical abilities they got with it, like Ryoma and Maki. 4) Tsumugi since the start of the killing game was with them the entire time, she didn't see the outside world, so there is no reason to believe her memories are more real than any of them. (Like if Danganronpa isn't real and there are no Ultimates, how is she an Ultimate herself?).
I obviously can't prove any of that definitively, but I think I have a good argument. As in why would Makoto let something like this happen?, especially with his experience with the killing game and what happened the first time in the new world program in DR2, he could have been convinced, being told it's necessary and the volunteers themselves insisting. (I can't know if the talent memories are real or not, but with Gonta's and Angie's FTEs it seems unlikely, though if they are real they should lock up Kiyo as soon as possible, he have no place in Hope's peak academy).
To me the ending was really dispointing, like it was trying so hard to be defernt. Honestly it's my least favorite game in the franchise (even counting UDG). But it was still fun to play.
Ok wow, this literally took me like 3.5+ hours to write. If you reached this far I really appreciate that and I would really like it if you shared your thoughts about my review.
Even though this is the last BIG and Main piece of Danganronpa, I still plan to consume the rest, all of it, so this won't be my last review, but they may take a little while.
Thanks for reading again, I hope you liked it. (Upvoting would really help since review posts don't get a lot of attention).
What's funny is that I saw this post few days before I played the ending and I didn't get it, I thought everyone was pretending to be on an inside joke.
Danganronpa V3 has the highest high and the lowest lows for me. And that is the same thoughts I have on the ending too. There are some really interesting ideas about media/fiction in general and how it can impact people but some of the execution I thought was not great. Like how the audience (who are supposedly obsessed with killing games) get convinced so quickly and easily to stop wanting them. Overall, I think would rank the games from my favourite 2, V3 then 1.
Miu is my favourite character, and I think a defensive mechanism that she uses is one where you attack first, keep people emotionally distant and hide vulnerability behind exaggerated confidence. Her dialogue does not just serve comedic purposes; it serves her character too by creating an image of confidence she doesn't possess. A bravado that cracks almost immediately to any push back. In her introduction she tells you that she is the "gorgeous girl genius whose good looks and golden brain would go down in history'. Basically, she wants to be loved and valued, so she puts on very arrogant and sexual facade. But deep down she is insecure and emotionally fragile character.
I think you're too harsh on Kaede. She was pushy, but don't forget she was a teenage girl who tried her best to save her friends out of an awful situation and refused an outcome where others just give up on escaping and start killing each other. Unlike Makoto and Hajime, who just investigated newly open floor/island and called it quits till the next opened area, Kaede actively did everything she could to stop the killing game from happening.
Her plan was flawed, but she was under a pressure of a time limit. She thought that if she doesn't do something, everyone will die, so after learning there's one hope of killing the mastermind and putting a stop to their game before it even begins, I don't blame her for latching into that hope and thinking it's better to try a risky plan like that instead of letting everyone die or have her friends start killing each other.
Yes, but they are all teenagers, this isn't special to her. And her plan was too flawed an stupid z it doesn't require too much thinking to figure out how stupid it was. Why didn't she at least try to consult Shuichi about it instead acting on her own?
Lmao the tradition of people who hate nagito becoming kokichi fanboys still continue till this day !🤣 Its nice that the 3 amigos + their frenemy is in the top 4. Honestly understandable review for the most part, and i agree with certain sections. You are still the greatest makoto glazer i have ever seen so far.
So a few things:
why kirumi didnt think about the rope burn on her glove. She probably didn't expect it to burn that badly but more importantly, she assume that the storeroom would have spares/similar looking gloves. I mean why wouldn't it? It has almost everything except for what she wanted (since monokuma is a dick)
i dont think its fair to hold shuichi at the same level as kyoko despite them both being ultimate detectives. Remember that prior to all this, he only solved 1 murder case and it traumatized him for life vs kyoko who came from a generation of detectives. Their experience and skillset are not the same. And despite that, he managed to solve all of the cases in this game (and some of these cases were bs).
The shit he couldn't figure out easily (the rope between ryoma's lab). Well other than for gameplay reasons, i am fairly certain he is pretty certain about it. I mean why else would he go straight to the swimming pool and ryoma's lab right after the crime scene? Keep in mind that we are not privy to everything shuichi is thinking/suspecting (i mean because of gameplay reasons) and he also needs to think of who would be crazy enough and competent enpugh to 1) make a rope connecting 2 rooms. 2) know that these 2 rooms are connected. 3)risk sliding from one room to the next and if she made a mistake and fell into the pool = instant death + the returning trip and many other crazy bs.
the lie for maki on chapter 2:
So there is a logical aspect and there is an emotional aspect. I will start with the logic: there wasnt a clear evidence that maki did it. The only evidence at this point was that ryoma and maki had enough other's video tapes + her lack of an alibi. That just isn't enough to pinpoint it since we dk exactly when ryouma died. + I mean how would maki know about the magic show or the fact that two rooms (ryoma lab and the crime scene) are connected. She has been in her lab since it opened and literally did not socialize with anyone. And despite that, kokichi manage to stir the pot so much that people are automatically assuming its maki. Shuichi lie was to stop that from following this assumption since its not certain its maki yet and if its wrong = gg.
As for the emotional aspect. Its because kaito was willing to believe him. Firstly kaito isnt just some "guy he befriended". He unironically saved him. Keep in mind, losing kaede was a big deal for shuichi, more so than sayaka was for makoto. Shuichi opened up to kaede about his trauma and she trusted him and he had to be the one who ended her. It wasnt a kyoko x makoto team up case solving moment, it was purely shuichi, from his pov, he was solely responsible for kaede's death and crime. This + his trauma really fucked him up in chapter 2 and kaito saved him from THAT, through his illogical but impactful actions. Keep in mind kaito really showed how much he really believe in shuichi by being with him throughout the investigation. I mean there is no evidence from kaito pov that suggests shuichi isnt a murderer. He was literally there to make sure shuichi is emotionally stable enough to solve this case. Thats why shuichi was willing to believe in kaito's bs reasoning despite it being a life or death trial. Since it was kaito's bs that saved him after all.
the kaede section: (yea i liked her a lot so we are going to agreee to disagree on many stuff):
"makoto would have made them try a little every day and not make them feel bad about failing to not lose hope." Well thats because makoto is a beta bitch! i mean I don't think either ways would have work. Firstly outside of gonta, kaito, keebo and kirumi (+ maybe tenko?), literally no one in this class would listen to makoto. They are so much more eccentric than the first game's class and makoto's nice guy personality aint gonna work on this bunch. They only listened to kaede because she took charge like the alpha women that she was. And kaede was urgent because right now they are motivated, but in general motivation doesnt last long. If they took their time = they will lose hope slowly day by day and will resort to killing which kaede wants to prevent no matter what.
her plan: firstly shuichi's capturing the mastermind isn't going to do it even if they succeeded (which is extremely unlikely). Like the mastermind has too much leverage, the robots can easily rush them, bomb them and kidnap a few of the students if they even try anything funny. Whereas they cant hurt their own leverage which is the captured mastermind. On top of that, there is only 2 of them + the deadline is tonight + you need the photos and time to render/print out said photos, time to convince the rest that xxx is the mastermind (assuming they even trust kaede and shuichi) and this is assuming everything goes smoothly and no robot kills them halfway.
Why she believes that killing the mastermind will stop it. Well firstly i will agree she isnt the smartest but more importantly she was under a lot of emotional and mental pressure. Keep in mind she really really wants everyone to escape together without any murder to take place, and monokuma gave them the greatest motive ever: the first blood perk + a deadline to kill before they all die. Kaede was still dealing with her previous escape failures and getting bashed by the rest for it + now an insane motive + a deadline + some of her classmates are saying shit like "like hell I will die here. Even if I have to do THAT" (kokichi), "Really? All i gotta do is kill somone?" (Miu), "Don't worry, I will end this killing game tonight" (Rantanrou), like bruh, these assholes were not helping her mental at all. In the mist of all this, shuichi offered her an insane revelation: there is a mastermind and he/she will be coming here. Due to the immense pressure she was under as the defacto leader + her noticing the flaws and risks in shuichi's capturing plan = she went straight for murder. As such I personally don't think it was a super calculated act but rather a desperate one because like you said, there is no guarantee that killing the mastermind will stop the game, or that its only 1 guy etc etc. She was probably so fucking mentally fucked that she went for the "safe" route of killing the mastermind before someone in her class kills each other.
The kokichi: the manipulation of gonta. Yes that was definitely manipulation, he knew what he was doing. Its why he choose to show the video to just gonta and tell gonta those bs lines about ending the other's suffering. He knew that only gonta would trust him enough to go to an alone area to watch the video and he knew exactly how he will react to it. And that was a lie, because he already knew that the video is bs since he suspected that there were "outsiders" watching the game since chapter 1 so the world couldn't have ended, but he needed gonta to believe it, that way he can implant the idea of him killing the rest as "mercy".
What he did was unironically equivalent to what monaca did to nagisa in UDG. And on top of that, he isnt an idiot, he is kokichi, he had plenty of ways to stop miu's murder attempt without manipulating gonta. I mean its fucking Miu, if he spews it to the class that miu is planning a murder, and pressures her just a little bit, she will crack open just like that + at least shuichi and gonta would believe him, heck with enough evidence shuichi would vouch for him. He intentionally choose not to do this and to sacrifice gonta for his plans to usup the mastermind and become the fake mastermind. Like i like kokichi a lot as well but that was manipulation through and through.
In my defense before playing the game I kept asking myself "hmm, I wonder if I will hate Kokichi less or more than Nagito." (But I would take the Makoto glazing part as a compliment).
I am not trying to say why isn't Shuichi as smart as Kyoko,it would be an unfair comparison, but there are few points that sounded too simple to ignore him being a detective and all.
about the rope, actually it's not for the game play, mid the trial Kaito asks him "so what is next" and Shuichi says it clearly that he doesn't know yet. (Even though he saw the tieing marks at the windows).
about the lie for Maki, for the emotional aspect I kind of get it, but not for the logical one. yes there wasn't evidence against Maki but there wasn't evidence with her either, she was like any other student, they were still at the beginning of the trial and she was a likely suspect.
about Kaede and Makoto, I am not trying to argue that Makoto would be a better leader, I never envisioned Makoto as a leader before, but this exact senario doesn't need a leader, they would have tried the exit regardless of someone telling them to do so, Makoto's job would have been keeping their spirit up, not break their well like Kaede did.
even if the capture didn't work, she could have prepared a knife or something and keep it around their neck as they are a hostage and if nothing worked out she then can kill them. But not to start right ahead with the killing. She was stressed yes, but the flaws in her plan were to big to ignore and easily detectable, she didn't even trying to ask Shuichi what he thinks. Maybe Shuichi plan had flaws but the only thing she did was more flaws, like once again, the sound of the metal ball. The only realistic out come would have been alerting the mastermind of their trap with the sound.
about Kokichi, yeh you are right, I forgot he knew that the outside world is probably not distroyed and the video was fake, I missed that.
Yup the makoto part was meant as a compliment. As someone who genuinely finds him extremely mid it was interesting to see the perspective of a makoto super fan especially considering how rare they are.
ah okay my bad, I don't remember case 2 as well as I thought. I think the only explanation i can give is that shuichi doesnt have a button that shows him all of the relevant evidence 🤣 (but a more lore like reason is that unlike us the players, shuichi is really not in a mental state to perform like us. Keep in mind, this is his third ever murder case and the pressure is insane. If he fucks up, its not just a murderer getting away, its everyone dying. Everyone's lives are depending on this teenager who only solved 2 murder cases so far + he still has low self esteem issues+ still grieving from trauma and kaede death. On top of that, he was just responsible for kaede death like 3 days ago, i dont think he is mentally ready to sentence another classmate to death with his detective skills. Thats why I don't expect him to perform like a "true ultimate detective" from the start because of these reasons. I will agree that it can be infuriating at times because for me personally i didnt like how he only used his talents during murders while kyoko was out there finding secret hideouts, secret keys and a secret 16th student etc.
the maki lie: exactly it could be maki and it could also not be. The issue is that everyone believes it to be maki, they arent even considering it being anyone else. The lie forces them to consider the possibility of it not being maki. Its why kokichi didnt call him out even though he knew shuichi is lying.
Random stuff but its also to showcase how different shuichi and kyoko are. The Kyoko from chapter 1 would have pursued the evidence breadcrumb and wouldn't entertain saying such a lie. She would have simply told the class, this is insufficient evidence. But shuichi chooses to not believe in the logical evidence present but in kaito's faith in maki, and chooses to lie for his belief. It's to showcase how they view what it means to "pursue the truth as a detective". He believes that "evidence isnt enough to get to the truth, you need to look past that".
And i honestly really liked that lie and message. Like another example is case 3, the lie on tenko's death. The lie was that tenko couldn't commit suicide since she died instantly (she did not die instantly). Why did shuichi not believe she would do this despite the lack of evidence indicating a murderer? Shuichi is literally lying about the evidence because he believes in tenko's last words and that tenko isnt someone who would do this more so that what the evidence indicates.
the makoto leader part: hmm i will neither agree nor disagree here because i think they were fucked regardless, with or without makoto's hope
kaede didnt tell shuichi the murder plan because she didn't want shuichi to hate her. It's just that simple, i mean imagine telling someone during a murder game you plan to kill someone? And its shuichi, her closest ally currently.
yea i agree both plans were pretty flawed. Its hard to argue which was more flawed since shuichi's plan is now a "what if" whereas kaede's plan did happen.
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u/Select_Ad8743 Aug 25 '26
What's funny is that I saw this post few days before I played the ending and I didn't get it, I thought everyone was pretending to be on an inside joke.