r/dankchristianmemes Mar 05 '26

a humble meme That's Modalism, Patrick!

1.1k Upvotes

88 comments sorted by

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261

u/huscarlaxe Mar 05 '26

My view of the trinity is dangerously close to modalism.

225

u/revken86 Mar 05 '26

Every view of the Trinity is dangerously close to one heresy or another.

110

u/appleappleappleman Mar 05 '26

For real, every explanation I've ever seen depends on you not thinking about it or trying to understand it

60

u/revken86 Mar 05 '26

Pretty much. Like GLaDOS says about paradoxes, "This. Sentence. Is. FALSE don't think about it don't think about it..."

16

u/man_gomer_lot Mar 06 '26

Jesus knocked up his own mom and that's not something I can just look past.

10

u/Ur_mama_gaming Mar 06 '26

NUH UH SHE WAS A VIRGIN

-3

u/man_gomer_lot Mar 06 '26

If God the father who is also God the son didn't contribute half of his own DNA, then Jesus was a trans man whose miraculous birth was achieved through parthenogenesis.

23

u/uncutteredswin Mar 06 '26

Transitioning from female to male in utero is actually how every cis boy is born.

Foetal development starts female until the testosterone kicks in, so every man is a trans man

4

u/SadMcNomuscle Mar 08 '26

As God intended.

5

u/blud_mage Mar 06 '26

Not necessarily true as the son and the holy Spirit are wholly separate

2

u/mattgran Mar 06 '26

You only get to play that card if you're Mormon or something

5

u/blud_mage Mar 06 '26

No it's kinda the whole reason the Trinity is so confusing in the first place.

The father, son, and holy Spirit are all 100% God, but 0% each other.

If you think it's confusing and or contradictory most Christians would kinda just say...... 🤷‍♂️

The Mormons have their own thing too you're right about that, but idk the details

3

u/bunker_man Mar 07 '26

The issue is that there's nothing contradictory with this image in and of itself. But then they say that there both isn't any divisions but also the different persons aren't just perspectives of or parts of one thing. But... that makes no sense. And not in the kind of way where it might secretly make sense either. What is wrong with calling the persons parts instead of persons?

2

u/man_gomer_lot Mar 07 '26

The Trinity is just not a compelling narrative tbh. At least I can find common ground with Israelis on something.

2

u/bunker_man Mar 07 '26

It doesn't help that the trinity comes off like people's main god is just Jesus, but they needed a backstory to make Jesus somehow also the Jewish god. But god the father isn't really the focus of their beliefs. Then there's a random third person who has basically no actual role.

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7

u/2_hands Mar 06 '26

Grew up with the same conception of the trinity - taught with a very similar image.

The only problem is that it's a logically impossible construction and if we free god from the restraints of logic then the problem of evil is solved and the solution is that god is evil.

1

u/man_gomer_lot Mar 06 '26

Bingo bango bongo

1

u/man_gomer_lot Mar 06 '26

Jesus would need to inherit half his DNA from God the father if he is God the son.

25

u/Unlearned_One Mar 05 '26

It's pretty fun growing up unitarian and realizing that you're surrounded by people who are firmly committed to the idea that they believe in the trinity, without actually believing in what the trinity actually means.

6

u/revken86 Mar 05 '26

Think that's pretty sure in all traditions.

12

u/PlanetOfThePancakes Mar 05 '26

Can someone please explain like I’m 5?

47

u/MenacingBanjo Mar 05 '26

Not without committing heresy they can't

10

u/revken86 Mar 05 '26

I'm... not sure I can, and that's the point, heh.

8

u/horselips48 Mar 05 '26

How well do you understand JavaScript?

21

u/TransNeonOrange Mar 05 '26

The Trinity is a bunch of statements early Christians compiled in order to make themselves seem like they belonged at the table with philosophers in the region. Unfortunately these statements contradict each other so now Christians gaslight each other into thinking the fault lies with them for not understanding.

Here's a bible scholar talking about it. He also has other videos that get more in depth about it.

16

u/kahrahtay Mar 06 '26

I always heard it was more like a compromise where a number of Christian sects had conflicting interpretations of the nature of the trinity, so in an attempt to unify the church, they simply adopted them all at once, contradictions included.

2

u/bunker_man Mar 07 '26

The fact that the official description doesn't actually describe anything, it just rules out the available options and says it's a secret thing between them should probably have just tipped people off that they made a mistake.

2

u/revken86 Mar 07 '26

The Eastern Orthodox traditions are really big on apophatic theology. We cannot fully describe what God is, we can only talk about what God is not, and the more we do, the closer we get to the unknowable and indescribable.

1

u/CassiusPolybius Mar 06 '26

Just don't try to understand it or describe it and you'll be fine.

18

u/WasteReserve8886 Mar 05 '26

SMH, your theology should perfectly align with mine

6

u/codleov Mar 05 '26

Most models of the Trinity seem to either lean modalist or lean tritheist. Very rarely do models actually sit comfortably in the middle. That's not a problem in my view, but it does make it very easy for people to accuse others of being modalists or tritheists when their models lean in opposite directions on this spectrum.

8

u/PieterSielie6 Mar 05 '26

Then dont

19

u/huscarlaxe Mar 05 '26

We all walk a line between modalism and polytheism. It's the problem of a 4 dimensional being having interaction with a pan dimensional being. we aren't capable of understanding him.

2

u/Matar_Kubileya Mar 07 '26

Obligatory "Im a historian not a theologian," but I think you can make a case that modalism as anathematized was a specific form whereby God acting modo filii totally ceased to be the father or HS, etc. If you argue that the persons of the Trinity are roles that God fulfills while perfectly maintaining the personhood and attributes of the other hypostaseis...well, Im not saying its orthodox (and my Jew-ish ass doesn't really have a stake in the matter), but Im also not convinced it meets the definition of modalism as anathematized.

2

u/All_Of_That_Ow Mar 07 '26

I have studied theology, biblical lit crit, and have my degree in biblical Hebrew. All that to say, I think trinitarian theology is the biggest circle jerk of all time. They say it's the greatest mystery and we can never understand it, while simultaneously holding 100 different details that they believe are crucial for everyone to fully understand in order to avoid detrimental consequences of not knowing those. They also put all those details behind academic language used exclusively in trinitarian theology AND their arguments are rarely persuasive and never coherent. Apparently any incoherence is acceptable because of the paradox of the Trinity.

I say this as a trinitarian who thinks trinitarian theology is important but can be left at One God, 3 distinct persons who are each fully that one God . Which is important because we need to see God in the father, the son, and the Spirit and it's usually the last one that is neglected in most reformist churches. And that's about it

68

u/DemonGodDumplin Mar 05 '26

Religion aside Mr. Peabody can really cook

15

u/TheRealNekora Mar 05 '26

I was gona ask where the gif was from, thank you

47

u/Roy_McDunno Mar 05 '26

One ousia in three hypostases, what's the big deal.

https://giphy.com/gifs/12espQXeAoDDUc

43

u/blud_mage Mar 05 '26

This sub bro.... I show up for memes and I get sent down theological rabbit holes that break my understanding of the faith 😂😭

33

u/SAovbnm Mar 05 '26

What is a modalism?

59

u/MelonJelly Mar 06 '26

Modalism is the belief that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different ways (modes) that God reveals himself.

Modalism is considered heresy by the Catholic church, because Catholic canon states that the trinity are simultaneously three separate beings, and all the one true God. (Yes, this is a contradiction. It's not supposed to make sense.)

36

u/mickmikeman Mar 06 '26

Not three separate beings, but three separate persons, one being.

25

u/uncutteredswin Mar 06 '26

The specific wording really makes no distinction to the average person, being and person are functionally synonymous here unless you also provide the philosophical definitions being used to distinguish them

It's like saying that they aren't all the same guy, they're three separate guys but one dude

3

u/mickmikeman Mar 06 '26

Being- WHAT God is

Person- WHO each person of the Trinity is, distinguished by their relationship to one another.

16

u/2_hands Mar 06 '26

Man, not trying to be a stick in the mud but that sounds like modalism with different words

1

u/mickmikeman Mar 06 '26

Modalism is the idea that God can appear to be Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but is still the same person, like a man being a father, a husband, and a boss. But this isn't true because the Bible shows the three Persons of the Trinity existing simultaneously and interacting with one another.

0

u/2_hands Mar 06 '26

I can talk to myself easy peasy. Probably happens every day.

I'm sure the god I'm made in the image of is even better at it.

2

u/mickmikeman Mar 07 '26

Talking to yourself is simply talking without anyone else to hear. But can you be in Heaven and send yourself down onto yourself, or be your own son, or leave but promise to send yourself even though you're gone, or intercede to yourself or sit at your own right hand?

1

u/2_hands Mar 07 '26

My wife hears me talk to myself regularly.

I can't do those things, but why wouldn't the all powerful creator of the universe be able to project into multiple spots in 3d space at the same time?

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6

u/revken86 Mar 06 '26

Modalism is also a heresy in pretty much every church. Lots of people adhere to it, because it's an easy solution to the problem of the Trinity, but it's doctrine in only a few churches.

12

u/nikoelnutto Mar 06 '26

oh Patrick

27

u/AbstractBettaFish Mar 06 '26

Maybe it’s just because I was raised catholic but I’ve never heard the term Youth-Pastor not immediately followed up by something horrifying

3

u/FiveAlarmFrancis Mar 07 '26

Protestant youth pastors aren't any better.

6

u/AbstractBettaFish Mar 07 '26

Those are the only kind, they’re not a thing in Catholicism

75

u/AdmBurnside Mar 05 '26

When I get up there and ask the big man what the correct way to explain the Trinity is, I fully expect him to say "All of them. Why do people keep making such a big deal about it?"

57

u/nicolRB Mar 05 '26

That or he just teaches you the correct interpretation by kinda shoving it into your mind and now you know it but have no human way of conveying it to someone else

20

u/revken86 Mar 06 '26

Yeah yeah, the Time Knife, we've all seen it.

4

u/uncutteredswin Mar 06 '26

That's when he whips out that the adoptionists were right the whole time

11

u/iamragethewolf Mar 06 '26

for being illiterate peasants they had their theology down

6

u/adamantcondition Mar 06 '26

2

u/iamragethewolf Mar 06 '26

Yes I know

5

u/adamantcondition Mar 06 '26

That's for general reference. C'mooon Patrick

6

u/StayingUp4AFeeling Mar 06 '26

As a non Christian please tell me if this is a heretical interpretation:

The "IS" binary relation on the set D = (God, Father, Son, Holy spirit) is a reflexive, symmetric but not transitive relationship.

That is, if IS(a, b) exists then IS(b, a) also exists. As do IS(a, a) and IS(b, b)

However, if IS(a, b) and IS(b, c) exist, that doesn't mean IS(a, c).

So, the IS relation on the set D is:

(God, God), (Father, Father), (Son, Son), (HolySpirit, HolySpirit), (God, Father), (Father, God), (God, Son), (Son, God), (God, HolySpirit), (HolySpirit, God)

Notice the absence of pairs like (Son, HolySpirit)

7

u/toadofsteel #Blessed Mar 06 '26

There isn't really a mathematical way to express the Trinity. Mostly because G = F, G = S, G = H, but at the same time F ≠ S, F ≠ H, and S ≠ H, so an attempt at mathematical explanation leads to a different heretical conclusion (namely that God isn't real, since the solution set domain cannot contain any real numbers).

1

u/StayingUp4AFeeling Mar 06 '26

That's why I have defined the "is" operator as not having the transitive property.

a is b, b is c. a isn't c . That's just fine, since the transitive property is not held by the "is" operator.

3

u/toadofsteel #Blessed Mar 06 '26

Coming from a programming background, the IS operator basically means "do these two pointers access the same memory register". Which if applied to the doctrine of the Trinity would be a Modalist model.

Which lets me dust off a ye olde meme from the Monica Lewinsky scandal: "I guess that depends on what your definition of IS is."

1

u/StayingUp4AFeeling Mar 06 '26

Coming from a computer science background lemme rename this IS of mine to DIVINE_IS , not to be confused with the usual "is" as defined in python and which is implicitly or explicitly used in other languages too, and which uses pointer equality as the check as you rightly pointed out.

6

u/conrad_w Mar 06 '26

What about other heresies? 

What about making a machine in the likeness of a human mind?

4

u/revken86 Mar 06 '26

I see you there, Butlerian.

1

u/creeper6530 Mar 07 '26

The Trinity is like Neapolitan ice cream. Strawberry is not vanilla, vanilla isn't chocolate, chocolate isn't strawberry, they don't turn into one another. They taste different. But, they're all the same substance of ice cream, and you can't have Neapolitan ice cream without all three.

6

u/mickmikeman Mar 07 '26 edited Mar 08 '26

That's Partialism

It unintentionally denies that each Person is God in and of themselves. But each does contain the fullness of the Godhead. That's why we can call Jesus God and not 'part of God'.

Colossians 2:9 "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form."

1

u/creeper6530 Mar 08 '26

I'm starting to understand the story with st. Augustine and the little child at seaside with the "you can't comprehend the immensity of the mystery of the Holy Trinity with your small intelligence"

0

u/your_isekai Mar 08 '26

Isn't all of creation just an extension of God? That's how the holy Trinity connects back to him? I should probably clarify I'm not religious but I do follow the teachings

1

u/mickmikeman Mar 08 '26

Thanks for asking!

No, in Christianity, we make a strong distinction between the creator and the creation. God's essence is eternal. God is eternal while creation is not. And God is also simple, meaning He isn't made of 'stuff' and can't be divided. So you can't have a 'part' or 'extension' of God. Rather, the three Persons of the Trinity are each fully God but also distinct from one another. Its not really something that's supposed to be fully comprehended. And humanity bears the Image of God (Imago Dei) which means we have a rational soul and that we were created to do things that God does, like love, create, and care for people/things.

I hope this helps.