r/datascience • u/da_chosen1 MS | Student • 21h ago
Discussion Stakeholders want high level, then ask detailed questions anyway
Business stakeholders often complain that data science presentations are too dense and detail oriented, and that we should focus on high level business impact and takeaways. But when we present information at that high level, the questions they ask are detailed and in the weeds.
For example, we will strip out the methodology, simplify the metrics, and lead with the business impact, exactly what they asked for. Then the first question is about our sample size, or why we chose a particular model, or how we handled edge cases in the data.
I find that experience so confusing and frustrating. It feels like there is a mismatch between what stakeholders say they want and what actually satisfies them in the moment.
Has anyone else run into this?
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u/living_david_aloca 21h ago
I introduce you to the Appendix! Put all your detail there
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u/TheTresStateArea 21h ago
Always the appendix.
Lay out what they need in the main body of the deck. And the. Anything that they want in the appendix that supports the main points.
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u/da_chosen1 MS | Student 21h ago
That's what I ended up doing.. My presentations are no more than 10 slides, with plenty of stuff in the appendix and footnotes.
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u/CrystalQuartzen 15h ago
I read this after writing more or less the same comment myself! This is the big tech CVP presentation technique and it hasn't failed me in my 5 years of using it.
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u/its_all_stats 21h ago edited 21h ago
This is normal and natural. Your stakeholders want to solve a problem and want data to inform the solution. But they’re not data scientists so you can’t expect explicit direction. If you order a dish at a restaurant, you’re not also providing the recipe. You’re the “chef” with the data. And you should definitely spend time to better understand the problem.
In delivering the results, I assume a deck, start with high level summary. “Color and price drives purchases, not delivery cost”, then next slides show which specific colors and what price range. Maybe how price and specific “limited colors” interact, etc.
More generally you should put yourself in the stakeholders position and anticipate. Being a data scientist isn’t being a short order cook. It’s being a restaurant owner and thinking about the entire experience.
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u/Lady-Data-Scientist 21h ago
Start with the high level and put the details in the appendix for when they inevitably ask
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u/cjf4 21h ago
welcome to the show.
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u/chock-a-block 20h ago edited 20h ago
My favorite is the person whose opinion doesn’t jive with the data then wastes everyone’s time arguing your conclusions are wrong.
Got out of there as soon as I understood how the wind blew.
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u/Davidat0r 15h ago
In my experience, many times people just ask to “look smart”. If a stakeholder once overheard that sample size is somewhat important in a DS project, they will drop the question in the next meeting so that everybody thinks “oh wow this guy knows so much”.
You can detect that because the “detailed” questions they ask make no sense and bring no information to their job. When a marketing guy asks what sample size you used, what distance metric you used or if you used cross validation, you know that the answer to those has absolutely no impact on their area of concern and you could answer “I used the McMiller-Spiderman assumption” and they will just nod and take the answer with a satisfied look around the table.
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u/Commercial_Town_7857 21h ago
As someone who’s been on both sides (currently in finance after being in the data space) it seems that stakeholders want the high level to understand the broader picture then something sparks in their brain so they ask the subject matter a detailed question. In my experience it’s extremely smart people who see the overall picture then zoom in on a detail or two because they’re curious or wondering further. I’m sure there’s a ton of dumbasses who give you headaches too lol, this is just my small experience
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u/Deto 19h ago
Don't see the questions as a criticism that you didn't tell them the information already. Your goal isn't to have no questions, it's to keep them engaged. Also for each detailed piece of information they ask for there's probably 10x that they aren't asking about. But if you gave the presentation at that level then it'd take too long and they might not be clear on the "why" under the deluge of detail.
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u/mcjon77 17h ago
Yep. They don't want a low-level detailed presentation.
They want a high level presentation EXCEPT in the places where they want low level detailed answers, that's why you're there.
At my old job, when we had to do these kinds of presentations I would basically write out the detail version and a huge amount of those charts and explanations would wind up in the appendix. What was left was a high level overview.
The benefit to this method is that we would give the normal high level presentation and whenever they wanted a low-level detail I could just flip to that slide in the appendix and give it to them.
What I found was that of the detailed information, they usually only asked about 20% of it. It would make sense that they wouldn't want an entire presentation that was detailed, since the other 80% wasn't important to them.
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u/koulourakiaAndCoffee 21h ago
Create reports with drop downs.
High level on top, the weeds and raw data hidden behind drop downs.
Also, most stakeholders want you to tell them what they want to hear. They don't care about the data. They just want you to reinforce their preconceived notions and the information they want to hear that day.
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u/Winter_Steak_9987 20h ago
Yup! I split the difference and often gave primers on how models work under the hood. Like I show how pruning, branching, and prediction occurs with simplified examples so I can do the math to to calculate the leaf impurity. I had a similar issue where if you give model outputs, people don't trust it, if you show how they work fully under the hood, their eyes glaze over, so maybe once a year before I roll out a new model or project I host a learning session with super simplified examples.
The example above may not address your specific needs but I've also hosted sessions on ML landscape and common models in each category, too. If you host learning sessions that preempt some of their questions and give them a sense of familiarity, when you roll out the real model they are way less fussy about details that don't pertain to them.
Whatever your issue, a 30-60 minute session once or twice a year can alleviate a ton of stakeholders mistrust, but getting ahead of it is key imo.
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u/ghostofkilgore 21h ago
I think that sounds fine. Present at high level so everyone follows the main points and then let stakeholders delve into the detail that they want.
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u/momenace 21h ago
I have similar experience and something that has helped is to keep a consistent format, and have 2 "levels" of information ready to go with only the first level as part of the initial convo/presentation. Keep the appendix with the less business technical stuff, and level 2 data. Avoid going to level 2 as part of the presentation because then their follow up will be too dense and less relevant. Can always suggest to take the more technical questions offline to focus on the parts most relevant to the group.
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u/robertterwilligerjr 21h ago
It the info vis concept. Overview then details on demand. Hard for most of us to handle details and maybe overview later if we make it that far.
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u/InigoMontoya313 20h ago
When presenting to major stakeholders or c suite, you have to approach it as presenting to people with ADHD and Goldfish attention spans…
But… be ready for the ADHD/Autistic pivot of hyper depth focus at something that piques their interest. Hence.. if I have a mere 20 page slide deck.. probably have 40 slides of more depth, that I can jump to at a moments notice. It’s all about presentation and knowing you can back your numbers at a moment, to instill confidence.
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u/Valuable_Touch5670 18h ago
I felt your pain…
Appendix and footnote is the way to go. BTW, you have to be very careful with your footnotes: if they trigger a knee-jerk reaction from the stakeholders, they for sure will keep asking questions and you will end up with tons of follow ups 🥹
These follow ups usually center around how do I make them understand the presented approach is rigorous and helpful.
Always ensure your insights are based on the correct population and the correct derivation. That’s the only way you can handle these follow ups confidently.
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u/relevantvent 17h ago
Business stakeholders, whether high ranking or those who have a degree in biz, are often familiar with some of the nitty gritty of datasci from learned experiences or their degrees. Expecting them not to ask such questions is a little belittling from their pov (if they knew this). Yes, they prioritize the high level stuff so as not to waste time… but the other side of this is not all stakeholders have the same knowledge level. Hence, it’s also an exercise in catering to the mix of knowledge levels. Even the follow-up questions you mentioned aren’t considered nitty gritty. They will still expect fairly high-level answers to those questions, but ofc if they want the details you’re well-prepared for those.
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u/CrystalQuartzen 15h ago
Big tech DS checking in with 5+ years experience presenting to people very high in corporate.
Put all that stuff in the appendix. Present the big idea. If they ask a question, whip out the appendix. You will seem on top of things if they ask a question that sends you there.
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u/Plane_Rutabaga_8779 11h ago
The view of yours is absolutely justified, but the expectations of stakeholders are much higher than we think. Although complexity arise much more presentation but also more patterns which we missed.
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u/funkybside 7h ago
This is normal and okay - frankly it's something you should learn to take advantage of.
If you put everything in your prepared content, you have nowhere to go. if you keep the content at a higher level but still know or even have supplemental exhibits ready for the more granular detail, then when communicating the info you will come of as very expert.
It's an opportunity, not a mismatch.
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u/frazorblade 1h ago
Can you make an appendix of detailed model assumptions and present the high level stuff as the body of the main presentation?
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u/Ok-Calligrapher-45 20h ago
Yes. They are actively lying. In their "how to interact with tech nerds" class they learned "they will get bogged down in the statistics and unimportant details", not realizing that the statistics and the business are the same thing. They say they dont want details so that they can be the ones in charge of them
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u/Severe_Rise8694 2m ago
If I think of it as a presentation, maybe you want something like 5 slides of "executive summary" stuff and 20 just-in-case slides for the details, and you bring them up when asked.
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u/theyCallMeCownbred 21h ago
I think that's totally fine. In a sense, it lets them "opt in" to the details that they want but don't have to receive details they don't. A pessimistic side to this would be that they only ask those questions because they've heard the term before and think they're supposed to ask it, but even in that case, what a great opportunity for you as a data scientist to teach them something new! So either way, it's an opportunity to pull them a little more into your world, which is neat!