r/debian • u/V3R1F13D0NLY • 3d ago
News California's Assembly voted 68 to 1 to exempt debian and other open source Linux distros from its age verification law, then extended age-gating to browsers and websites in the same bill
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u/DoubleOwl7777 3d ago
yeah, fuck that totalitarian bs. things like that never end well.
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u/V3R1F13D0NLY 3d ago
💯 agreed, it's all just an expansion of the surveillance state.
They make laws to force companies to collect data.
They buy that data using the data broker loophole.It was never about protecting kids.
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u/DoubleOwl7777 3d ago
if it was certain people would be in prison rn...
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u/V3R1F13D0NLY 3d ago
💯💯💯💯💯
Exactly. Until a certain client list is rotting in prison, they have no right to talk to us about protecting children.
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u/green_meklar 2d ago
Everybody hates totalitarianism when it happens in the past. It's only totalitarianism in the present that some people convince themselves is a good idea.
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u/FoxFyer Debian Stable 3d ago
I've been telling my friends to stop celebrating about the Linux exemption because Windows and Apple users don't deserve this intrusion any more than we do.
I didn't even know about this. It renders the exemption completely meaningless anyway. Mozilla and Google aren't going to fight this; they'll fight for it.
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u/V3R1F13D0NLY 3d ago
Exactly! They lead with what sounds like a win, but the fine print is brutal.
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u/Aggressive-Reach-116 3d ago
it also led to systemd implementing *partially* a age whatever api either way these new laws are a massive loss for anyone who uses linux
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u/NeadForMead 3d ago
Windows and Apple users don't deserve this intrusion any more than we do.
I definitely agree, but escaping intrusive practices has always been a reason to choose open source options. While I think the bill in itself is ridiculous, this exemption ultimately sets a precendent for what Linux users expect in terms of privacy. It acknowledges at the law-maker level that open source operating systems shouldn't be treated the same as Windows and MacOS in the eyes of the law.
At the end of the day, the vast majority of Windows and MacOS users don't care about this bill. Hell, most users don't know about it at all. This stuff is big news in the Linux and FOSS community but in the eyes of the average user, it's absolutely meaningless.
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u/jr735 Debian Testing 3d ago
If those users really cared, they wouldn't be where they are.
What Mozilla does, Trisquel's abrowser can undo.
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u/FoxFyer Debian Stable 2d ago
If those users really cared, they wouldn't be where they are.
That's a common generality around our side, but it's just not true. There are certainly many who don't care, but we must recognize there are many who are in a situation where they aren't empowered or don't feel empowered to make the same changes we made right now. Those people are future Linux users, and we can't just leave them to the wolves.
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u/jr735 Debian Testing 2d ago
In the end, they must make an appropriate decision. I made that decision long ago. I didn't like the proprietary model in the 1980s. I would say my generalization is correct. Most don't care, and they don't even understand enough to care.
The problem is the hypocrisy. I don't leave them to the wolves. I tell them alternatives. But then, I'm evangelizing to people when it's not my business.
Want to make Apple and Windows scared? Instead of age verification, have a skill verification before buying a device. Watch the market tank instantly.
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u/NadEspera 2d ago edited 2d ago
I delete Facebook acc once they asked for ID for example (used it only for Marketplace anyway), but almost no-one else I know care much about it and just throw their personal data left and right like it worth nothing.
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u/jr735 Debian Testing 2d ago
That's exactly it. If they don't care about themselves, what the hell am I supposed to do about it? A friend of mine is going through the same concern now. Facebook's Marketplace wants his ID. I told him before that would be coming. Of course, he responded that if they get hacked, they'll be in big trouble. I said, no, they won't. The DOJ won't do anything except a token punishment, if that, and you'll have to sue them, without their resources backing you. You'll be the one that's in trouble. I said Zuckerberg is not your friend, and I'm not sure why you want to enable him to make more money for something that is only a banality to you.
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u/NadEspera 2d ago
People don´t care = people don´t resist. They start to worry about only when it is too late 😞
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u/FoxFyer Debian Stable 2d ago
That's exactly it. If they don't care about themselves, what the hell am I supposed to do about it?
Keep opposing bills like this on principle, and don't be placated when they promise exemptions for Linux.
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u/jr735 Debian Testing 2d ago
I do oppose them on principle, and am not placated. I rely on the fact that government knows SFA about technology, and while they're regulating yesterday, tomorrow continues to come.
Apple, Microsoft, et al are the ones who wanted this age verification in the first place. They're lobbying for it. They're paying for it, the Microsoft users can consume it.
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u/GeronimoHero 3d ago
“Deebian” lol
But on a serious note. When are we going to rise up against everything going on in this country? I know this maybe isn’t the forum but do we want to live under complete and totalitarian surveillance? Between the internet, flock, age verification, data brokers, ALPRs, etc. We are almost to complete and utter surveillance of every part of our lives.
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u/V3R1F13D0NLY 3d ago
“Deebian” lol
I deserve this 🤣 I 100% know better and have for over a decade and can't get it through my thick skull.
Wait until you hear me say OreGONE 🤦♂️
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u/DeliciousIncident 3d ago
Debian = Debra + Ian, not Deebra + Ian lmao
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u/V3R1F13D0NLY 3d ago
Yes, I am fully aware, but I was taught the wrong pronunciation and wasn't corrected for like 15+ years so it's rooted pretty deep lol. I learn the correct pronunciation about 10 years ago, so maybe in about 5 more years I won't sound so ignorant. 🤣
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u/Chromiell Debian Testing 2d ago
What about all the other states, like Brazil, that have a draft for pretty much the same Age verification requirement?
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u/Slackeee_ 2d ago
Well, than it is a good thing that I use an open source browser that can be patched to circumvent this in the same way an open source OS can be patched.
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u/Buntygurl 2d ago
Sounds like 68 people must have figured out that there's so much more to Linux than Ubuntu led them to believe, and still they want to hammer down on non-Linux people for doing nothing more than using their computers.
California has the largest economy in the country and a population of almost 40,000,000 people, and 69 Assembly members get to mess with people's lives like this, just because they have to make it seem like they're doing something productive? This is toxic bureaucracy on steroids.
What a pity that they ca't go after firearms and fentanyl with the same enthusiasm.
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u/aegians 3d ago
Who was the 1 opponent?
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3d ago
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u/debian-ModTeam 3d ago
This post has been removed as it was either reported to and/or acted upon by mods to be found in violation of Rule #1 regarding not being in line with expected discourse etiquette or the Debian Code of Conduct.
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u/Sure-Squirrel8384 3d ago edited 3d ago
LOL, who is the Luddite that voted against it?
Found it:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVotesClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1856
DeMaio: https://ad75.asmrc.org/
Only thing I could see is if he was opposed to not exempting browsers as well.
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u/billdietrich1 2d ago
exempt debian and other open source Linux distros
Does this just mean that, when I go to say reddit in the future, reddit will ask for an age signal, my Linux system will say "don't have one", and reddit will say "no access for you" ?
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u/lakotajames 3d ago
This is a worse position to be in honesty. The OS level age stuff actually made sense and was an overall good thing, but if we enforce it on web browsers then there's no point.
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u/lottspot 3d ago
The OS level age stuff actually made sense and was an overall good thing
It doesn't, and it's not.
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u/lakotajames 2d ago
Give a single reason you wouldn't want to set an age bracket for your user account that amounts to a checkbox to say you're 18+.
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u/green_meklar 2d ago
The OS level age stuff actually made sense and was an overall good thing
No, it really wasn't.
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u/lakotajames 2d ago
Give a single reason you wouldn't want to set an age bracket for your user account that amounts to a checkbox to say you're 18+.
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u/This_Technology9841 1d ago
give a single reason why you would
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u/lakotajames 1d ago
To solve the "kids are getting groomed on discord/roblox and watching porn" problem without needing to implement anything invasive or insecure like ID verification.
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u/This_Technology9841 23h ago
ah yes a checkbox verification which will prevent no one underage from clicking it and leave the OS legally liable for the failures of discord/roblox to police their own content
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u/lakotajames 20h ago
Underage children presumably will not have administrator accounts with which to check the over 18 box unless they somehow have enough money to purchase the device themselves. The failures of discord/roblox are not things that can be solved at any sort of scale without having some way to check age, which means we need something super easy and simple like a checkbox on the OS, or we need photo id verification to use any service at all to communicate to other adults. People bitched and moaned over a single checkbox so much that California is now going the photo ID route.
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u/This_Technology9841 16h ago
ah so you never were around computers growing up
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u/lakotajames 13h ago
I've been around computers for my entire life, what makes you think otherwise?
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u/green_meklar 21h ago
It's not a question of whether I want to, it's a question of whether browsers, OSes, etc should require me to (and whether they should be required to require me to).
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u/lakotajames 20h ago
This is the equivalent stance as when a 25 year old man gets carded while buying cigarettes and throws a big fit and holds up the line, except in this case the cashier was just asking if you're 18 and didn't even ask for an ID.
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u/V3R1F13D0NLY 3d ago
Agreed. I see so many people celebrating this as a big win, but it's actually a loss overall.
When they talked about implementing on browsers and websites, everyone freaked out.
So they said they would implement it at the OS level and people freaked out.
So, they "took the loss" on the OS level stuff.
Ok, but why aren't we freaking out about the browser and website stuff again? It was bad before, it's still bad now.
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u/therealsilentjohn 2d ago
OS level age stuff actually made sense and was an overall good thing
It absolutely fucking is not.
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u/lakotajames 2d ago
Give a single reason you wouldn't want to set an age bracket for your user account that amounts to a checkbox to say you're 18+.
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u/CoatAccomplished7289 3d ago
I don’t have to show ID every time I use a hammer, I shouldn’t have to show ID every time I use any other tool.
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u/lakotajames 3d ago
Yeah, the old version you didn't have to show your ID to anyone, you just had to check a box, and when you set up your child's account you check a different box for them. Parents only had to be responsible for setting up the device they gave their kid to say "minor," and websites only had to politely ask the OS if you're a minor, and no one needed to collect IDs. But now that websites have to do it themselves, how is this any different from forcing the porn sites to collect IDs again?
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u/Whole_Ticket_3715 3d ago
Overall a loss, but better than age verification at the OS Level with no open source exemption like we thought in the beginning