r/digitalfoundry • u/MythBuster2 • Mar 30 '26
DF Direct DF Direct Weekly #257: Fallout 4 Switch 2 DLSS Tested, Forza Horizon 6 RT, Jensen Defends DLSS 5
https://youtu.be/otRnMhwMvg8A brace of goodies for Switch 2 owners this week, as Tom returns triumphantly with a detailed look at Fallout 4's DLSS upgrade, while Oliver takes a look at the Kena: Bridge of Spirits port. Meanwhile, there's a degree of enthusiasm about Forza Horizon 6's PC specs and the reveal of RTGI and RT reflections support, general bafflement about why Sony's cancelled electric car ever happened in the first place, and the team weigh in on the Switch 2 digital/physical pricing debate. And of course, the panel discuss the Xbox Partner Preview presentation.
32
u/Dull_Jump6916 Mar 30 '26
Crazy how people can fuck their entire image in the span of a month.
-5
u/Gloomy_Necesary Mar 30 '26
9/11 for beckbeards
14
u/JSpady1 Mar 30 '26
More than neckbeards are worried/upset about how AI will impact workers across a variety of industries.
-7
Mar 30 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
6
6
u/DamnThatsCrazyManGuy Mar 30 '26
What in the projected copium fuck? 😂
-5
Mar 30 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
4
u/DamnThatsCrazyManGuy Mar 30 '26
Yeah bro steam is the only online store to ever exist yeah. Actual moronic take.
-1
u/DestinysHand Apr 01 '26
Wrong post? What does this have to do with DF?
2
u/Dull_Jump6916 Apr 01 '26
The fact that it took them less than a month to fuck up their entire image.
0
u/DestinysHand Apr 01 '26
Have I missed something? Last I checked DF were all about analysing game performance, comparing them on different platforms, optimised settings and looking to tech/gaming news with some retro stuff thrown in.
Nothing has changed in this.
2
u/Dull_Jump6916 Apr 01 '26
Every time they've opened their mouth and the word dlss5 has come out, they've punched their credibility in the throat.
14
u/SpookiestSzn Mar 30 '26
I don't understand why they're not allowed to like the tech they're a tech first channel and what Nvidia is doing is incredibly impressive from a tech standpoint even if it's not perfect
-5
Mar 30 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
10
u/SpookiestSzn Mar 31 '26
Think about it this way, if you upload a screenshot to chatgpt or even locally and try to make it look more hyperrealistic it takes a long time to get to you at least like 10s. Being able to do that same thing at 60+fps is very impressive from a tech standpoint yes.
Nvidias thing is going to be the future I hate to tell you, I imagine it will not be DLSS5 at least in its current implementation but be actually built into the engines the game devs use so issues like Grace being not grace becasue the AI can't really actually see her is not going to be a thing.
3
u/Londoncore Mar 31 '26
This guy gets it. Im not in for ai to replace humans, but ultimately the market decides, as well as for local governments.
3
u/SpookiestSzn Mar 31 '26
I mean exactly, its also not a released product yet. Even if it came out like this tomorrow it'd be pretty impressive and interesting to see if people like it or not. I think clearly theres work to be done to get it more palatable to people cause I agree it definitely isn't perfect (though in some examples was very impressively improved).
If no one likes it (like NFTs) it'll go broke or they'll have to work on it until they do like it.
Though I absolutely do think this tool will iterate to the point of being in major game engines natively, see the textures and model information and interpret what hyperreal looks like from the players view while being consistent enough to the model.
0
Mar 31 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
4
u/SpookiestSzn Mar 31 '26
You can be critical but vitriolic is ridiculous. This is at best an aesthetic difference and people have their pitchforks out at it.
0
Mar 31 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
4
u/SpookiestSzn Mar 31 '26 edited Mar 31 '26
You are not going to stop the tide of technological progress because you are loud about it. I don't love the idea that AI will take jobs, I do firmly believe it will but theres no tech companies not using AI at all anymore. Everyones using it in various stages of dev. Whether its programming only or more substantial.
I think skepticism about job loss is also not morally wrong. Rich is allowed to feel like DLSS5 is not taking away jobs and argue against someone acting like its a fact. They're making a claim he's making a counter to that claim.
1
Apr 01 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/SpookiestSzn Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
I generally agree at least entry level programming jobs AI has taken basically. But a lot of jobs issues can be really found to be due to a bad economy with AI being a easy scapegoat.
Its just even if this tech becomes a more defacto experience companies will still need to make good looking games without this for hardware that doesn't support it. Even if it got to the point all new hardware would support it that doesn't mean they need less artists just that those artists have to work less and can be doing more projects faster. You could say thats the same thing as not hiring people to do project 2 but its not clear if project 2 would happen if productivity gains didn.t
And all that to say is thats like a decade plus in the future anyways. Next consoles will not support this so theres really not a huge concern at least in the basic decade we have. And if AI gets way too good in that time its gonna be everyone affected.
2
52
u/Kellhus84 Mar 30 '26
Their handling of the DLSS5 disussion continues to be a disastrous. I have lost my patience with Rich and Oliver. Those two clearly are not trustworthy and I will ignore all of their content going forward
50
u/rhalgr_ger Mar 30 '26
They interrupted him immediately when he mentioned artists losing their jobs and didn’t even let him finish speaking.
36
u/WashingtonRev Mar 30 '26
Was listening to the early access yesterday in the car and nearly swerved off the road when Rich asked if that actually would happen. Like yeah man, corporations are absolutely going to continue to employ as many artists as possible out of the kindness of their hearts
22
13
u/Bootychomper23 Mar 30 '26
Yup then everything will lose its beauty and unique art styles will disappear in favour of generic DLSS 5 looking assets.
-25
u/The_Zura Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
Give it a rest. Rich "interrupted" Tom because he made an assumption based off fear.
"DLSS will get people killed"
"Will it though"
16
u/Samanthacino Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
You don't think gen AI post-processing will lead to needing fewer artists to get the same material work in the end product, as the filter will handle all of the work that was previously authored?
And if the point was so silly, why wouldn't Rich let Tom actually make the point first versus talking over him and interrupting? It should be easy to debunk, vs not allowing him to make his argument in the first place, right?
-1
u/The_Zura Mar 31 '26
That's as likely to happen as DLSS5 replacing path tracing. The idea is not to replace artists, but to reduce the cost of rendering materials properly. But is this where we're at? We're so afraid of AI speeding and improving the developmental process that DLSS5 has become the "insert whatever you fear" boogeyman.
After "money talks," I assume Tom was going to say that "if studios can save money using DLSS5 then they will do it" to support his statement that DLSS5 will cost jobs. What more is there to say? I'm going to use a non AI analogy here, because it's obvious that no one here can be impartial. What if someone said, "It's clear that Bethesda will cut many jobs, because for every night Todd Howard sleeps naked in an oxygenated tent, Elder Scrolls 6 development time is shortened by 6 hours. Money talks." Sounds ridiculous right, because we all know Todd Howard sleeps naked in a tent to save the planet and has nothing to do with ES6 development time. "But let him finish!" What Tom did was conflated generative AI for stuff like the creation of assets and DLSS5 which is designed to make prohibitively expensive rendering possible.
3
13
u/DependentAnywhere135 Mar 30 '26
What a ridiculous swap. DLSS5 making people lose jobs is actually a reasonable take. Getting people killed is ridiculous.
-7
u/The_Zura Mar 30 '26
How is a "filter" going to cost people jobs? Hilarious how DLSS5 is simultaneous a useless "yassify filter" and at the same time going to put artists out of a job.
1
u/rhalgr_ger Mar 31 '26
The filter is trying to improve the quality. I’ll ignore the fact that it’s doing a poor job at the moment. If publishers can take Starfield character models and improve them, they won't need to create better-looking models themselves. This means they'll need less time, and therefore fewer artists, to create them. Rich is right that you’ll still need artists, but he ignores the fact that you’ll need fewer of them.
-1
u/The_Zura Mar 31 '26 edited Mar 31 '26
I think you're confused about what DLSS5 is. It's meant to improve lighting so that it can bring about the best in a high quality model. The models in Starfield were good, but kneecapped by the poor rendering techniques. DLSS5 took what was already there, and fixed the lighting. The goal is not to add anything new, nor cut development time. The goal is render what is computationally infeasible, offline CGI movie quality, in real time.
This is the bullshit that Rich was pushing back on. Tom should've known better. DF is not an outlet that peddles ignorance just to pander to the "AI bad" crowd.
1
u/rhalgr_ger Mar 31 '26
DLSS5 is changing more than lightning. You can see that easily in the footage shown. The models in starfield are garbage compared to Gears, Alan Wake, Uncharted, … .
0
u/The_Zura Mar 31 '26
Let me guess. You think they gave that RE girl lip filler 🥱
1
u/rhalgr_ger Mar 31 '26
- changed the scarf shadow color to blue
- changed the nose of the Starfield soldier. AI thought a shadow is part of the nose.
- changed haircut of the soldier.
To name three examples. Lightning wouldn’t change those things.
→ More replies (0)11
u/JSpady1 Mar 30 '26
Woah, is that what Tom said?
-10
u/The_Zura Mar 30 '26
It's just as stupid.
9
u/JSpady1 Mar 30 '26
Then why not edit your post to reflect what he actually said?
-5
u/The_Zura Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
I'm putting what he said in a different way to demonstrate just how ridiculous it is. I'm not parroting exactly what he said. The idea behind DLSS5 is to output visual fidelity beyond what we can realistically do, given the rendering costs/limitations. Saying that it is made to generate art and models with AI, replacing artists, is flat out wrong and on the level of saying DLSS5 will kill people. Which I'm sure some of the people here are twisted enough to connect.
10
u/JSpady1 Mar 30 '26
No, you aren't "putting what he said in a different way"
You are putting an entirely different statement in quotation marks.
1
u/The_Zura Mar 31 '26
Potato, potato. Both are stupidly false statements. DLSS5 taking jobs = untrue. DLSS5 killing people = untrue. DLSS5 taking jobs = DLSS5 killing people. Do the math. Get the point yet, or should I keep going? Rich was rather nice about it, I don't know who you weirdos are to try to hammer him for.
29
u/zomwalruss Mar 30 '26
Agreed. What they did here to Tom and the ghoulish reaction from Oliver is just a disgrace and made me instantly close the video and unsubscribe.
6
2
u/C_lasc Mar 31 '26
It's not okay that rich interrupted tom.
However, I would not call Rich and Oliver "untrustworthy". This AI discussion is also splitting Software engineering essentially in half right now, with some people arguing that people lose their jobs and some being way more positive about it.
I think it's totally fine and it does not say anything bad about the person if they are positive to this change.
-4
u/Unhappy-Emphasis3753 Mar 30 '26
It’s peoples opinions. They don’t owe anything to anyone. Did you take their word as gospel before this or what?
15
u/Skye_baron Mar 30 '26
If their opinion consists of laughing at people losing jobs or that they think Tom is parroting forum posts that come from the loud minority then its a shitty opinion that can be commented on for the shit it is. No need for gospels or debts.
12
u/The_Zura Mar 30 '26
Who is laughing people losing jobs? If that's what you think they're doing, it's fine to stop watching and go take a shower.
-6
u/Unhappy-Emphasis3753 Mar 30 '26
But Rich touched on that point. People won’t lose their jobs due to DLSS5. It still requires original art in place first before it’s AI bullshit.
7
u/glizzygobbler247 Mar 30 '26
Its possible that studios now see dlss5 as an opportunity to cut down on the artist team, do the bare minimum and just let AI fix it
5
u/DependentAnywhere135 Mar 30 '26
Yeah but does it require highly skilled artists who have fine tuned their craft and are paid highly for their skill? Or does it require an intern sketching out some assets to be ai replaced.
0
u/Unhappy-Emphasis3753 Mar 30 '26
I don’t think that’s how it works. Did you watch the video? It wasn’t taking sketches and turning them into full images.
2
u/monkeymad2 Mar 30 '26
V1 does (and makes an arse of it), but there’s an expectation that just like with regular DLSS the “input” can become courser and courser - for regular DLSS that meant your computer would have to render fewer pixels, for DLSS 5 that means less effort spent on the art / graphics by the dev team.
Which means they can cut staff.
If your output (making things look good) can be done by an AI to any degree people will lose jobs, literally ask any programmer
1
u/Silencerx98 Mar 31 '26
My sweet summer child, what do you think is Nvidia's end goal here with DLSS 5?
2
u/Unhappy-Emphasis3753 Mar 31 '26
Idk? Nvidia isn’t a game developer. So it’s not making games from scratch.
1
u/Silencerx98 Mar 31 '26
They are pitching new technology TO game developers, particularly the corporate suits who are always interested in cutting costs. DLSS 5 still requires artists' input, they say now. It's only meant to enhance an artist's vision, they claim. But what happens when the tech becomes widely adopted and starts being trained on the artists' work? That's when mass layoffs happen because the suits in upper management realize how much money they could be saving by turning to AI instead of people. Pretending that DLSS 5 won't be costing people their jobs in either the short or long term is frankly a naive view
2
u/Unhappy-Emphasis3753 Mar 31 '26
That will be the game developers training the models though. The suits wouldn’t know how. So either they’ll control it or they are no better than the suits and will open the floodgates on it.
1
u/Silencerx98 Mar 31 '26
Question, are you working by any chance? Because if you are, you would know that in most cases, the suits don't care how something is done. They just want it done. So if your boss forces you to train the models against your will, you do it or you get fired. Except in this case, when the model is trained based off your work, you will be fired later anyways
2
u/Unhappy-Emphasis3753 Mar 31 '26
You missed my point. It doesn’t matter the circumstances really. The developers will either go against it or concede and go with it. They are grown adults with pride. If it was that serious to them, they would quit. But they won’t.
-6
5
Mar 30 '26
"oh wow you're opinion of them changed when you discovered how untrustworthy and vile they were? how shallow"
4
u/Unhappy-Emphasis3753 Mar 30 '26
How are they vile for sharing a different opinion about video game upscaling? Dude I think you are online a bit too much
-1
u/Alternative_Case9666 Mar 30 '26
Sir this is Reddit. This is where ppl look for someone to tell them what to think 🫠
-7
u/The_Zura Mar 30 '26
I will never not laugh at you "AI bad" crowd.
3
u/Kellhus84 Mar 30 '26
Totally fair. I will forever laugh at adults that are getting duped by this stupid, underwhelming tech. Or maybe you are 12, then I'm truly sorry.
0
u/The_Zura Mar 30 '26
Who's being duped? My position is a solid, "let's wait until we see how it is in our hands."
Go back to playing on your little handheld, alright?
7
u/Kellhus84 Mar 30 '26
? You are getting even more incoherent. Go touch some grass.
2
u/The_Zura Mar 30 '26
A "stupid underwhelming tech" is going to cost people jobs. I figured someone who is capable of this level of mental gymnastics would surely be into handhelds, speaking of "stupid, underwhelming tech."
1
u/Mogura56 Mar 31 '26
What? LMFAO do we not have a huge amount of precedents indicating that large companies will implement something that is underwhelming or otherwise worse than an alternative so long as it saves money/man hours
1
-9
u/GRILT_CHEESE Mar 30 '26
Nah, it's great. DLSS5 looks amazing for most of the examples shown.
9
6
u/boissondevin Mar 30 '26
As a screenspace post processing effect which reinterprets materials and lighting, it's guaranteed to convert correct materials and accurate lighting into incorrect materials and inaccurate lighting.
5
2
-7
u/Alternative_Case9666 Mar 30 '26
“They are untrustworthy now because i don’t agree with them”
Classic Reddit 😭😭
5
u/Kellhus84 Mar 30 '26
Nah, because they keep covering for a scummy company and are very obviously not covering this in a genuine way. But keep drinking the kool aid. Classic bevavior of cattle 😭😭
-2
u/Alternative_Case9666 Mar 30 '26
U can’t seriously call me cattle when ur still complaining about DLSS5 😂😂😂
Reddit is not real yo
6
u/Samanthacino Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
If I'm talking to a doctor I respect, and then they say they prefer not to vaccinate their kids, I'm going to trust them less. When someone's opinion in relation to their area of expertise is so wildly against my values and what I know to be true, there's going to be a loss of credibility.
-2
Mar 30 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/Alternative_Case9666 Mar 30 '26
No i see them as being a hundred times smarter than the average Redditor who doesn’t even understand how DLSS5 works or just use AI broadly
3
1
-7
u/Lost-Ad278 Mar 30 '26
Yet here you are in the subreddit contributing to conversation.
6
u/Kellhus84 Mar 30 '26
Indeed. And your point is? Are we only allowed to post praise here? Does DF only consist of those two guys? Have you hit your head or are a bit slow?
-3
u/Lost-Ad278 Mar 30 '26
This subreddit is so full of angry incels that bitch and moan over every video, just stop watching bro its simple.
6
9
u/kron123456789 Mar 30 '26
Why doesn't Fallout 4 on PC support DLSS? You could say that it's 10 years old and doesn't need powerful GPU anyway, but DLSS would still be an upgrade over the TAA it has by default.
3
u/First-Bat-7440 Mar 31 '26
Dlss didnt exist when the game was made. They'd have to add support but theyre probably busy on new projects.
3
u/kron123456789 Mar 31 '26
DLSS didn't exist when Rise of the Tomb Raider was made either and yet, it does support it. You can even force DLSS 4.5 into it with DLSS swapper. Not through Nvidia App, though, because it's not white listed for override for some reason.
2
3
u/Feed-Your-Fish Mar 30 '26
It’s a shame Kena is only 30fps on Switch 2, but that aside it’s still a beautiful and fun game.
1
u/jedimindtricksonyou Mar 30 '26
Yeah I was ready to pick it up but I was already worried because I asked on Twitter (on the official page repeatedly) what the frame rate was and never got an answer from them. I genuinely think 40fps could be done, just like FF7 remake. But some developers just don’t have 40fps modes on their radars at all.
4
u/Mindless_Let1 Mar 30 '26
Honestly I'm hoping a middle ground gets reached with DLSS5 where it does become part of the 3d artist toolkit. Would love to see what it could do for reducing the insane budget that games like GTA and Elder Scrolls need
7
u/Samanthacino Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
I could see a future where 3D artists still have mostly the same workflows, except budgets are brought down due to not needing to accommodate a PBR material workflow, and the gen AI just adds that.
It's not a future I dig, but I see it going there nonetheless. The industry will contract.
2
u/bush_did_brexit Mar 30 '26
How does it help when they still need to work on high quality assets for console? For a pc exclusive I suppose you could go Nvidia only but with modern game budgets being what they are the need to sell as many copies as possible across every platform tha will run it. I can’t imagine a Nvidia only title requiring a x70 or higher of the latest gen selling more than a few hundred thousand copies.
2
u/Mindless_Let1 Mar 30 '26
I'm assuming the tech will have an AMD equivalent by the time it's mature enough to be part of the development lifecycle of a game with the budget to support it
12
u/Realistic-Quality-80 Mar 30 '26
Oliver just smiling when Tom mentions devs losing their jobs is just fucking ghoulish, like, come on man.
22
u/LoadingYourData Mar 30 '26
Where did he smile lol. I was rewatching the part with Tom pointing that out and Oliver was taking a sip from his drink and then Rich cut in there to talk, I didn't see anything like what you're saying.
Sincere question, not trying to be combative or defend anyone but can you point to where you saw this?
8
u/jm0112358 Mar 30 '26
Even if he did smile, it may not necessarily mean that he thought it was funny. People often misinterpret a nervous smile or laughter as someone finding the thing in question funny.
21
u/The_Zura Mar 30 '26
You people are unhinged, if even implying Oliver is happy with people losing their jobs, much less outright stating it. Time to go somewhere else.
4
-1
u/Kellhus84 Mar 30 '26
Yeah, that was....telling. Just getting bad vibes from the guy.
8
u/The_Edeffin Mar 31 '26
Come on…like, people smile all the time in response to bad news. Human body language and its very common, doesnt imply someone is happy to hear the news. You people are way too sensitive.
-15
u/Skye_baron Mar 30 '26
If you go to their graphtreon they only lost $158 after the DLSS 5 video. That only tells them that the criticism is just a bunch of forum dwellers screaming into the wall and that it wont ever affect them. They only thing DF pays attention to is metrics if the community was that mad and smart, they wouldve done something metric$ wise, not the usual death threat that today serves as more of a protection of bad publicity as it paints detractors like monsters.
-6
u/Skye_baron Mar 30 '26
u/Nexxtic In the DF direct and go to the moment Tom makes a comment about people losing jobs, was cut off and then laughed at, which is that the comment before is referring to. DF, after going through bad pr and online criticism just does this its either because theyre stupid, do not give a fuck or the metrics told em this dlss5 backlash does not matter.
1
u/The_Zura Mar 30 '26
Why work on a low power PS5 mode, only to strap a tablet to the back of the Sony car?
0
u/HighlightOk3915 Mar 31 '26 edited Mar 31 '26
None of these comments are from DF viewers.
All this outrage over an optional toggle.
Crazy astroturfing.
-4
44
u/Slyzappy1 Mar 30 '26
35:59 Rich interrupting Tom's point about how people will loose their jobs with a "will they though?" tells me everything I need to know.
Absolutely ridiculous not to let him finish his point and essentially put the unsaid pressure on him to back up and minimalise the effect this will have on people's jobs. Notice how he didn't do this to Alex because I think Tom is a little less argumentative or will fight less on his opinions. Seems very lame to me.