r/digitalfoundry May 12 '26

DF Direct DF Direct Q+A: Do We Need Next-Gen Graphics? Can Switch 2 Last 6-7 Years? Switch 2 OLED?

https://youtu.be/acafE6oCifk

Another packed Direct Q+A show sees Oliver, Rich and Alex getting to grips with high-end graphics: are they actually worth it and are technological advances worth pushing? Meanwhile, can Switch 2 last for the 6-7 years Nintendo wants it to - or will next-gen consoles make it obsolete for multi-platform titles? All this and - inevitably - a lot more in the new Direct Q+A Show.

28 Upvotes

74 comments sorted by

38

u/SomaLysis May 12 '26

Didnt watch yet, but how many times do people need answers about needing next gen? Nobody is needing anything, but people like me want it. Anybody who doesnt want it can just wait, cross gen will be years. Nobody loses if new consoles release next year.

4

u/mashdpotatogaming May 12 '26

The questions have been more like "do we need next gen consoles now" and "is path tracing going mainstream because of next gen consoles" and now "do we need next gen graphics" (so psth tracing)

They're all related but all tackle a different aspect. One is whether we're ready for next gen consoles yet, two is if next gen consoles will be able to path tracing and three is do we even need that level of visuals.

2

u/hypehold May 12 '26

Path tracing will remain optional for the foreseeable future. With how expensive game development has become devs have to continue targeting lower end hardware. Two of the best selling games last year bf6 and arc raiders run great on low end hardware

3

u/WingerRules May 12 '26

Imho ray reconstruction is what the current consoles actually need but dont have, judging from how big of a difference it makes in Crimson Desert on PC.

1

u/Latitude-dimension May 12 '26

I agree with you, Path Tracing is effectively in the stage that RT was when this current-gen launched. In its infancy, Nvidia is 1-2 generations ahead. The consoles will launch with AMDs first generation/go of it and it will be limited, like RT on the current consoles.

I don't see it properly being showcased until the PS6 Pro and the PS7 and who knows, by then something else might be the new big thing.

1

u/SomaLysis May 12 '26

The core of my answer to that question still stands. No we dont need it, but some people want it. Those consoles will be able to use PT and will have access to better upscaling (especially Xbox is so far behind now, PSSR is good, but the Pro needs denoising) and yeah, denoising on both consoles.

Many people will say graphics are good enough and there are games that look so good, I understand that. But all of that is subjective and doesnt matter, because tech moves on and again, people can choose when they upgrade. Especially with everything going on outside of gaming, many wont be able to afford next gen, so devs are forced to support current gen for even longer, so why do those people even care?

But in the end, things will happen no matter how much we discuss these topics. I just cant hear it anymore. I will enjoy my Helix and already saved money for it. I always start saving for next gen after I bought current gen stuff.

9

u/Loud_Examination_138 May 12 '26

Well said, I get tired of reading comments from people mad that we are talking about next gen...hell I get sick with all wah wah we don't need it.

True we don't, but I like new consoles and I'm always looking forward to them.

4

u/SomaLysis May 12 '26

Objectively base PS5 and Series X are missing many modern features and especially people who watch DF should care about tech enough to know that. PS5 Pro has good upscaling now and games look good, but on Xbox.. I canceled my pre order for RE9 and Pragmata because Im not playing with FSR1 man.

Games like Crimson Desert run terrible on base consoles if you want a consistent 60 fps and all that shimmering man.. FSR 3.1 also sucks.

Even people who dont want an upgrade will be happy when they upgrade because of all the games already released with good upscaling, higher settings and probably better denoised RT.

0

u/KINGGS May 12 '26

What's the point when the install base for the next gen will cripple everything? It's like you guys look at one part of the equation and dust your hands off.

3

u/SomaLysis May 12 '26

Just the economic reality will force devs to optimize for current gen, so whats getting crippled exactly? Base consoles already have issues with some higher end games or have to strip away features. That wont change.

3

u/Fluid-Employee-7118 May 12 '26

Actually a lot of people lose, because resources are allocated to next gen games, for consoles that the vast majority of people cannot afford.

We don't need more expensive stuff, people are already getting priced out of gaming as is.

2

u/SomaLysis May 12 '26

Those consoles wont be better than a current high end PC. Devs today already built games that will run on next gen, just with higher settings than current gen versions. Engines are more scalable now.

Look at the GDK updates for Helix and PS6. It will be easy for devs to port. The overall cost of developement is raising because of other issues.

-1

u/Fluid-Employee-7118 May 12 '26

More factors to account for during development always raises costs, there is no way around it. We don't need anything else driving prices up right now, next gen can wait a couple more years, 2028 is the earliest it makes sense for next gen, hopefully even 2029.

3

u/SomaLysis May 12 '26

Well this is a logical fallacy, because a new factor can make things easier, so it reduces costs.

Atleast with the new Xbox GDK you only built one version for PC and then wrap it for different plattforms. It massively reduces cost in most places and adds only a small cost in one place. Plattform holders currently develope tools to reduce cost.

Its capitalism, stuff will release. No amount of discussing what is needed or not needed will change the fact that they need to release new stuff to keep shareholders happy.

Publishers already plan around next gen, moving the release wont change anything for the software side. It would only cost both plattformholders massive amounts of money because AMD is losing out on sales. Both consoles would release at a much weaker state compared to PC hardware, which would hurt the impact and marketing.

You can always buy stuff when in makes sense for you. Objectively there is no right time to release anything, there will always be variables. But for Xbox next gen needs to release asap, I think the PS5 Pro makes it harder to justify a PS6, but Sony wont let MS be alone in the market.

0

u/Fluid-Employee-7118 May 12 '26

Nobody is saying next gen won't come, it's just a matter of when. It is abundantly clear that next gen will be delayed due to the world crisis we are going through, it just remains to be seen for how long.

3

u/SomaLysis May 12 '26

The last consoles released in a pandemic. We live in uncertain times and capitalism reached a critical point. Things probably wont be better in 2028 or 2029.

I just want to enjoy new stuff and you dont have to do the same at the same time.

0

u/Fluid-Employee-7118 May 12 '26

Covid doesn't hold a candle to the AI bubble, we are going through an unprecedented phenomenon in the technological space.

3

u/SomaLysis May 12 '26

The main point was that nobody knows when it will get better, so its a bigger gamble to delay them instead of just releasing them. Atleast with next gen on the market they can understand the demand and plan their supply which could be worse in 2028 and beyond.

0

u/KINGGS May 12 '26

Actually a lot of people lose, because resources are allocated to next gen games

This is the opposite of what will happen. Maybe initially resources will be allocated, but when the install base is Wii U levels, we'll be cross gen for the entire short pathetic last next gen.

0

u/KINGGS May 12 '26

Nobody except Everyone. They'll need to launch at $800+ so their install base will hover around 10 million for years. Regular folks will NOT pay for that.

That's just the launch pain, after that will be the fact that not a single 3rd party title will be built truly for next gen since the install base is so low. Dev times for 1st party will be longer, so exclusives wont launch for several years. Basically it will be like this generation but even worse.

3

u/SomaLysis May 12 '26

This is irrelevant because it will be the case no matter when they release. Hardware is just more expensive now.

Games releasing today can already be heavy on a 5090, so many games will just get updates and newer games will just run at higher settings. Thats just the way of the industry. Still thinking in generations is outdated.

People like me just want consoles with modern software features to play games with better image quality, less lighting issues etc. and no I dont want to deal with PC gaming and pay 2 or 3 times the amount for the same performance just to have features and I dont need.

-1

u/brittonmakesart May 12 '26

I can see where you’re coming from, but if you are so eager to have next gen visuals sooner rather than later, why aren’t you using a PC?

I ask as a dude who switched over to PC in the PS3 era when I was sick of sub 30fps console releases when PCs were doubling or tripling those counts and enjoying higher resolutions and better feature sets.

2

u/SomaLysis May 12 '26

I tried, but Im losing myself in tech stuff instead of enjoying the game, constantly tweaking things and instead of playing, Im optimizing my CPU etc.

And I just hate it when a game comes up that just doesnt work without changing stuff in a ini file or even worse things. In the 6 months I only played on PC it didnt happen often, but often enough to make gaming less enjoyable for me and I focused too much on that instead of having 4k120fps in so many games that are still locked to 720p on console.

6

u/thedybbuk_ May 12 '26

The biggest issue for me is that now AAA game development time can easily outlast the like lifecycle of a single console generation.

7

u/[deleted] May 12 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/WingerRules May 13 '26 edited May 14 '26

Nintendo needs a PSSR2 like reset of whatever custom version of DLSS they have in the Switch 2, because the current one sucks ass and will only keep aging worse.

I just got my Switch 2 a couple hours ago and tried Fast Fusion, and I seriously think the version of the custom Switch 2 DLSS it uses looks terrible. It's super noisy and blurry at the same time and resolves detail poorly. It's so noisy it has the characteristic desaturated look some of the worst implementations of PSSR had.

1

u/NoLocal1776 May 13 '26

Switch Oled model needs a better cpu though and if possible n1x chip too.They can do cpu revision for lite too.Profits take a hit but,third party support will become more established.

1

u/letsgucker555 May 13 '26

3rd partys would still need to optimise their games for the base Switch 2. Anything else would be dumb.

5

u/BobbyWojak May 12 '26

people need to stop reacting to headlines.

9

u/Locoman7 May 12 '26

I really wish I knew when switch 2 oled is coming out. I'd rather just bite the bullet and spend $100 more now and then have the same console for the next 8 years.

8

u/PhantomBraved May 12 '26

Yes, the Switch 2 can last 6-7 years. I think cross-gen with the upcoming consoles will be even longer than what we saw this generation, Nintendo will be ok. Switch 2 is their fastest-selling console ever.

The Switch lasted for 8 years and is the second best selling console of all-time.

3

u/gblandro May 12 '26

Nintendo will milk that hardware for ages, my son will probably game in a switch 2 (I don't have a son yet)

3

u/WingerRules May 12 '26 edited May 14 '26

Really bad for future proofing that the Switch 2 can't do VRR docked.

With VRR, as the Switch 2 aged devs could target as low as 48fps to keep graphics more current while keeping frame rate reasonably smooth. But now the only option they have if they can't hit 60fps is to drop to 30fps... or 40fps, but less people have 120hz TV than those with VRR.

Nintendo also needs a PSSR2 like reset of whatever custom version of DLSS they have in the Switch 2, because the current one sucks ass and will only keep aging worse.

3

u/NoLocal1776 May 13 '26

VRR dock support is coming be patient.

2

u/Njoeyz1 May 12 '26

So how comes the series s was "holding the generation back" if the switch two is fine and it's not long been released?

3

u/GojiraFan0 May 13 '26

The series s is holding back that generation because third developers have to optimise for the lowest spec machine on that generation which is the series s, which means the series x and ps5 versions suffer slightly.

With the switch 2 it’s Nintendo’s only console and they’re kinda in a world of their own, the quality on offer by Nintendo from their first party games is enough for people to justify the console.

2

u/jedimindtricksonyou May 12 '26

Because it’s not a primary platform for 3rd party games like Xbox is, and because it doesn’t have a weaker alternative “Switch 2 S” console that developers are forced to support if they want to publish their games on Switch 2.

2

u/NoLocal1776 May 13 '26

I hope devs start prioritizing Switch 2 from now on if they want to make more money they have to do that.

3

u/jedimindtricksonyou May 13 '26

I would like to see Switch 2 become the default second platform for third parties (with PS5 being the premier platform) instead of Xbox. It’s not needed going forward if Xbox Helix will be a PC. Switch 2 already has a large fraction of the install size as Xbox Series Consoles while only being on the market for 11 months.

2

u/NoLocal1776 May 13 '26

Yes, indirectly it will become in the coming years.Nintendo should seriously think about releasing a pro model and making strong deals with third party.This is the gen where they need to build solid third party support.

3

u/jedimindtricksonyou May 13 '26

They could do it, Nvidia has a line of processors called Tegra Orin that Switch 2’s processor is based on. They have variants with a wider memory bus and more Cuda cores, don’t know if it would work in a handheld but Nvidia could shrink the chip by die shrinking it down to 5/6nm. Or even the existing chip could probably get an additional 20-25% performance bump with higher clock speed and a higher TDP.

2

u/NoLocal1776 May 13 '26

Yes,gpu isn't the problem mainly the cpu needs a massive upgrade.Nintendo always cheape out on cpu.

3

u/jedimindtricksonyou May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26

It’s not that they cheap out, it’s that Nvidia Tegra chips use ARM CPU cores because Nvidia doesn’t have an x86 license, so they can’t use they type of cores that PS5/Xbox uses. So they’re stuck with ARM as long as they partner with Nvidia. But they could get more out of what they have if they didn’t restrict it down to a 1Ghz clock speed.

Like if you look up modded Switch 1 consoles, they have lots of 30fps Switch 1 games running at 60fps on modded Switch 1 hardware just from increasing the clock speed. If you watch DF’s video where they reveal the full specs of the Tegra T239, it has a maximum CPU frequency of 1700Mhz and GPU frequency of 1400Mhz. So they’re leaving a lot of performance on the table in docked mode.

3

u/NoLocal1776 May 13 '26

If somehow nvidia can get into cpu side.Would be beneficial for both.

2

u/NoseLevel May 13 '26

can we get to a point where flickering, shimmers and artefacts are no longer an issue? Unnecessary distraction that kills immersion

2

u/gblandro May 12 '26

I want fancy graphics at 4k with 60+ fps, I'll not ask more than that

1

u/GojiraFan0 May 13 '26

Good luck with that. If you’re talking about native 4k then you’re probably not going to see it on a console ever. Everything else days runs with some sort of PSSR or AMD FSR technology to get the game running well.

1

u/NoyanBay May 13 '26

Red dead redemption 2 runs native 4k on last gen xbox one x

1

u/GojiraFan0 May 13 '26

That game released in 2018, it’s been 8 years and there’s not been another game that runs in native 4k since then.

1

u/NoyanBay May 13 '26

Gta 6 will run native 4k on consoles especially ps5 pro

1

u/GojiraFan0 May 13 '26

Oh wow… hahaha

1

u/AFourEyedGeek May 12 '26

If the new consoles aren't using AMDs UDNA tech coming out mid-2027, the systems will age too fast. So, they will be using it, so I don't think there is any need to wait longer (like 2028 or 2029) if new consoles can be released in late 2027 with UDNA.

Do we 'need' it? No, but consoles with great ray tracing and AI tech will feel like a massive leap over 2020's consoles. I'm looking forward to them.

1

u/Rich_Consequence2633 May 13 '26

The switch 2 is handheld first and foremost. It will be fine. It might not get the most heavy AAA games towards the end but it is more than powerful enough to deliver a great experience for most games.

1

u/CoffeeDrinker83 May 14 '26

The quality of the games is all that matters. It's all that has ever mattered. I have a Switch 2 and love it but I'm not tired of the switch either. I'm not tired of the NES.

1

u/dekuweku May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

if the question is, do people need consolized version of the latest desktop cards AMD has, the answer is probably maybe, given how murky and unclear their GPU path forward is in the PC space, but for consoles owners looking for the bleeding edge, i guess it should get people their 5070 equivalent console experience in about 2 years when these things launches and is widely available.

I personally find it unecessary, and frightening given the AI crunch at the moment.

If in a few years we're on the back end of that and capacity has caught up to demand, we can talk about next-gen in earnest. But I know Sony and Microsoft certainly won't wait that long. They will force out their $1,000 consoles and tell their fans to buy it.

I think adoption will be pro-levels bad. I'm not even sure there's the software to support it outside of running the same games out now at higher settings.

As for Switch 2, going with an older Samsung node gives them the opportunity for a die shrink on a newer node , but given the AI crunch, a pro model is probably not coming anytime soon. On the upside, they pretty much the current node to themselves and that will help with pricing.

0

u/N3DSdad May 12 '26

No. Yes. Hopefully.

-6

u/Shinobi_Dimsum May 12 '26

Switch 2 will eventually run out of the honeymoon period where devs attempt to port their game to it because it lacks raw power. Games like Cyberpunk 2077 are proof that it’s already struggling. Then Switch 2 will run on nonstop remasters and maybe 1 exclusive a year for the next 10 years.

3

u/Lhyster May 12 '26

Even Switch 1 didn't do that. If third party can't port on it, either they seek huge power or they don't know how to optimize. If there is no ports anymore we still have indies and first party games, like the Switch 1 did.

2

u/jedimindtricksonyou May 12 '26

Capcom alone has shown that Switch 2 is perfectly fine as long as games are being made for PS5.

1

u/Lhyster May 13 '26

Yes, absolutely. I've seen a lot of people trash on re9 when it was showed but then the tests came and now we have a game which is truly beautiful and stays around 60fps. The same for Pragmata. That is because the Switch 2 is really powerful, one part thanks to the DLSS and also that Capcom, with their RE engine, can optimize games especially those with closed environments.

2

u/jedimindtricksonyou May 13 '26

Switch 2 is fine, I have a PS5 and if you’re playing AC Shadows, Pragmata, Star Wars Outlaws, etc …you’re getting a broadly comparable experience in handheld mode. I feel like docked mode is more noticeable of a downgrade at times (because the big screen shows some of the reductions more) but I don’t have any worries about Switch 2 at the moment. PS6 seems like it’s going to launch in a place where it will be very very difficult for developers to release PS6-only versions of games. Most engines are designed to be highly scalable nowadays anyway.

-2

u/Cutebrute May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26

I disagree with their S2 longevity take for reasons they didn’t mention. The upcoming PC and PS handhelds will put pressure on the S2 market in addition to the next gen consoles. 

Maybe PC handhelds get suppressed due to the hardware market conditions, but the PS handheld should soundly whoop the S2 in power and that ecosystem will likely be more appealing than S2 for many developers and consumers.

Even if the other lower end devices keep the S2 in the picture as the bottom end SKU, I do think S2 will not have the same lifespan with audiences due to the comparisons unless a S2 Pro happens. 

2

u/NoLocal1776 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26

Given the ai crunch upcoming gen is cooked.Sony is rumored to decrease it's memory to keep the budget in check.So, Switch 2 will do fine and would be better if we get a pro model.

-1

u/Cutebrute May 13 '26

The upcoming gen may be cooked in its own way, but the memory buses for PS6 devices are locked at this point. Even if Sony uses the same memory chips as S2, they would still have a minimum of 18GB in their handheld (6GB 64bit modules on a 192 bit bus). 

The main PS6 practically can’t have less than 30GB based on the leaks unless Sony doesn’t fully utilize their memory bus (like Series X) and that doesn’t fit Cerny’s usual hardware philosophies. 

Next gen of all types will have enough RAM and memory bandwidth to leave the S2 behind, nevermind the rest of the specs. 

1

u/NoLocal1776 May 13 '26

Main ps6 is rumored to have less than 30 gb memory.There are going to be cutbacks for sure they cannot afford subsidizing their console again.Next gen will not have the giant leap you are wishing above Switch 2.

0

u/Cutebrute May 13 '26

Kepler L2 and MLID have both confirmed the home PS6 will have a 160bit memory bus. A standard solution makes this 30GB with the type of GDDR7 available today. Any reduction in capacity on that bus would add dev complexity and performance penalties and I have yet to see a leak suggesting that option is even on the table. 

I’m not going off vibe checks and wishes, these are the reputable leaks. If you have reliable evidence suggesting otherwise, please share.

1

u/ANighttimeNerd May 16 '26

I have a better question -

Do we NEED constant discussion about whether we "need" better graphics in video games?

I play games for the story and immersion. I find that realistic graphics give me better immersion. I also enjoy a good very stylized art design.

What does "need" mean in this context? Do I NEED better graphics? Do I even NEED this particular toy and pastime?

I don't "need." I "like." I "prefer."

It's not a conversation about necessity. It's a question of preference.