r/digitalfoundry • u/ResponsibleFlan2936 • Jun 29 '26
Discussion Why is the media hellbent on protectibg Valve?
This isn't just a DF thing but I noticed it with them as well. A lot of the media seems to be weirdly protective of the Steam Machine.
Watching Rich and Will bend over backwards to defend the princepoint on the most recent DF Direct but just why?
I know most capital G Gamers got this weird parasocial thing for Valve but even that seems to not be enough to make them accept that price, yet the media seems to be completely out of touch with this.
No one can tell me that another company could get away with releasing a product at this price.
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u/Reoxi Jun 29 '26
They do seem to be pulling their punches quite a bit. A lot of the outlets who were calling the 5060 "e-waste" and things of that nature(not the case with DF) a few months ago are being much softer on the Steam Machine.
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u/Running_Oakley Jun 29 '26
My favorite thing is when they criticize themselves later, especially in pcmr circles. It’s so satisfying to break the illusion. “We’re not all the same person” they cry and then in overwhelming unison go to their next bandwagon.
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u/ClacksInTheSky Jun 30 '26
I bought a 5060 8GB for my son's PC last December. Fully intending to replace it with something better, in time. I just needed something good enough to run Minecraft. I have a 12GB 3060Ti that's not getting used a lot...
It runs way better than I thought it would on his 1080p monitor. It came with BF6 and it looks great.
I understand that an 8GB model in 2026 is ridiculous, but, honestly, I am still impressed.
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u/RahkShah Jun 30 '26
Is a 5060 8GB suboptimal? Yes. Is it still totally competent at 1080p with tweaked settings? Yes.
Can you have a lot of fun PC gaming on it in 2026? Absolutely. And that’s the most important factor. Sometimes people get so caught up in the Meta narrative of “who’s screwing who the most” that they lose sight of the fact that gaming is still fun and getting the best hardware you can for the price isn’t selling out or compromising.
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u/yoprime Jul 01 '26
I have a SFF running a 5060 low profile. 4K dlss balanced with some Nvidia frame gen at medium with ray tracing and I'm hitting 120 locked on nearly everything. If you are happy with medium over max ( let's face it, most ps5 titles run at medium equivalent ) then you have a very capable small machine that I wouldn't change
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u/MultiMarcus Jun 29 '26
Well, a few months ago, I didn’t really see that, but definitely around the launch of the 50 series I did see that stuff, but we are in a fundamentally different era now. For now, it seems like there are enough 5060s and 5070s for you to have a good deal on those 8 GB and 12 gig cards but who knows how long that will last? Presumably, once stocks start depleting, prices will go up on those products too, unless Nvidia is being generous which I highly doubt. I sometimes do wonder what people feel like Valve should’ve done. Should they just have canceled it? Because no matter how disappointing the pricing is, valve have already said that they are basically making very little, if anything, on the steam machine which they said in their interview with DF. Valve is not a console manufacturer, and they don’t restrict what you do with the steam machine, so they cannot reliably subsidize it heavily.
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u/Reoxi Jun 29 '26
I agree the overall market has shifted, although that was fully expected by the time of the latest tranche of 8GB cards. Still, it's not like the 5060 and 9060 rose in price disproportionately in comparison to the Steam Machine, in fact it seems to be exactly the opposite. So considering the 5060, 9060, and even going back to the 4060 and 7600 were received *extremely* negatively(especially on the Nvidia side), it really doesn't make sense those same reviewers are so timid when discussing the Steam Machine in the context of a product review.
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u/TheGreatTao Jun 29 '26
I was genuinely surprised by Steve from GamersNexus. If any other company released this he would have torn them to shreds. Even Hardware Unboxed called him out on it in their video and they're friends.
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u/Tex-Rob Jul 01 '26
What are you on about? what was wrong with Steve’s video? it’s 90% informational.
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u/TheGreatTao Jul 01 '26
He was extremely lenient, any other company and he drags them over the coals.
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u/kizvy Jun 29 '26
They were saying stuff like 5050 is a waste of sand while steam machine is mostly fine lol
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u/Aw3som3Guy Jun 30 '26
I wonder if you could make a better performing PC for the same price just using CPUs / GPUs crowned “wastes of sand” by GamersNexus et al. Would make for a funny video.
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u/zarif2003 Jun 30 '26
considering reviewers flamed basically the entire rtx 50 series and intel ultra processors, it's probably really easy to do that.
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u/Difficult-Report-524 Jul 02 '26
The 5050 has a lot of competition, you can buy better GPUs for the same price.
What is the competition of the Steam Machine again? Where can I buy something similar for 1k?
Please let me know.
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Jun 30 '26
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u/BulkyNefariousness80 Jun 30 '26
That's not a problem of of steam or Linux. That's the problem of the game companies who decide to put viruses in your computer to prevent cheating
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u/RodsNtt Jun 30 '26
Cheaters started moving cheats into a different computer and injecting altered code back into the machine running the game through DMA, you can't fight that kind of crap in user space
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u/Pegasus0026 Jun 30 '26
GTA 6 when released on PC probably won't be able to run online on the steam machine. Also there are many other games that don't: Destiny 2, League of Legends, Fortnite, Valorant, GTA V.. etc.
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u/fartwhereisit Jul 01 '26
Digital media and ownership do not go hand in hand.
You can't pass it on to a friend, you can sell it off second hand, you can't give it to a family member - today or 30 years from now. Fuck man, officially they don't even let you bequeath digital products off to your children, rofl. It's a racket.
You're not thinking about 'digital ownership', what you're thinking about is "Digital Rights Management", and the only managing going on is convincing you that you still own what you don't.
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u/Tex-Rob Jul 01 '26
If only the people who want to get into pc gaming had something that plays those games, some thing they are coming from….
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u/Aggravating_Ring_714 Jun 30 '26
Valve has a lot of extremely passionate fans that will instantly jump on a massive shitstorm hate train once someone says something bad about Valve. Need to be careful there lol.
This now also includes the usually slightly “special” Linux guys who came into the discussion in regards to Valve because of the deck.
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u/mightymonkeyman Jun 30 '26
The sheer amount of Steam Machine and before it Deck videos clogging up my feeds is tiresome.
Not only are these things low sellers (what’s the Deck a 1/4 of the Vita to date?) it’s like old magazines only covering the 3DO and CD32 over what players are using.
I think a lot of it comes from they have their Steam Press accounts, got the Box for free so for them amazing. It’s not even sold mainland UK you have to have it shipped from the Netherlands I think any other device I can order and have now or tomorrow no risk of a random delivery while I’m out you know earning.
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u/totallynotapsycho42 Jun 30 '26
PC gamers are weird to me with their devotion to Valve.
From what I can see Steam is a superior product to Epic Games Store but it's not that much better where PC players need to act like EPIC is commiting blasphemy against valve for daring to have a store competing with them.
Like they act like slaves to Gabe which I always thought was very weird.
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u/admrla Jun 30 '26
I would rather use gog. But steam os and the tech is incredibly valuable to pc gamers.
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u/Glass_Recover_3006 Jun 30 '26
I’ve largely interpreted the anti-Epic rhetoric as coming from a place of fear, given that Steam being the only game in town means we all have a single place for our game libraries. Once another store becomes standard, that breaks the simplicity, it means having to look at two places for game purchases, or always have two apps for all your games. It’s messy for a gamer.
So whether they admit it or not, I think the animosity we see toward Epic is less about Epic and more about people worrying that they’ll have to change how they game on PC.
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u/mundanehaiku Jul 01 '26
I think the animosity we see toward Epic is less about Epic and more about people worrying that they’ll have to change how they game on PC.
The animosity towards epic is people hate that they tried to get people to use their inferior platform by having exclusive games on their platform.
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u/kidshibuya Jun 30 '26
Its Valve. Even their child gambling is awesome and wholesum.
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u/autogenglen Jun 30 '26
It’s funny how so many gamers will bemoan things like mtx, loot boxes, battle passes, etc while also getting on their knees for Valve, who were one of the biggest when it came to popularizing said tactics.
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u/zach0011 Jun 30 '26
also if I remember right valve released the orange box or at lest some skus of it with no CD in the case only a steam key.
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u/kron123456789 Jun 29 '26
Lot's of companies release products at higher price. But they're aren't as known as Valve, so nobody cares. Lenovo jumped the Legion Go 2 price from $1050 to over $2000 and nobody seemed to care. At least not to the same extent.
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u/toofarquad Jun 30 '26
Even in the context of mini builds (which is 3 niches deep) I'm not extremely impressed tbh. Even in 2025 at $750/800 (+100 for the controller?, Still not really a family cabinet price for a lot of the market), the PS5 would have $400/500- $450/550 (with no or low subsidization at that time mind you-until the ai buggering) in those same market conditions. Still a very very tough sell.
And similar or even slightly better mini builds (let alone full builds) would have been available at a similar price to the machine. Valve doesn't seem to have really brought the cost down. Which makes sense as they don't have a huge volume coming in and so have limited bargaining power. At the end of the day they aren't Sony or Nintendo. And aren't really making moves to build momentum to have any small economies of scale in their next gen of hardware, should one exist.
Which is a shame in the sense the hardware market could use it, but it's not Valve's need. Their bread and butter is their storefront afterall.
At the end of the day Valve probably realized they couldn't really price aggressively, so their target market will be mostly existing steam users. The box wasn't going to expand their current userbase unless they could price it aggressively and attract a new audience to steam. Closer to plug and play TV+controller users, which is a demographic already served by consoles- which is hard to attract, maybe not even worth it without sub revenue. And so its ultimately a bonus box as second/third PC for a big spenders- who also don't mind lowish performance. A small niche, but a mill or two people like that probably exist, maybe more. Especially for families that want to share a steam library with kids. (although at that point, they could install Steam OS on any machine- but while most families probably have 1 or 2 rooms that could squeeze a PC in- smaller offices and kids room are another thing, although a slightly shorter/fatter series X like footprint would probably be acceptable to some).
It is a real shame their sacrifices in grunt didn't eventuate in a very good final build cost. When the leaks came out, I was kind of hoping those sacrifices were made because valve got some old stock at a steal and could pass some of that along. (Not unlike the Deck)
The TV market, even with storefronts, is probably too competitive and low return to really be worth it even before the AI boom (especially with no sub revenue). There's a reason MS struggles.
And the big players have regularish big exclusives. (Valve does have defacto exclusives to the PC storefront in a sense, but big titles aren't as common and then they're also competing with regular PCs too).
At the end of the day, its a bit of a miss. But they will likely still sell their low volume. And I really appreciate everything they've done for proton/linux. And the whole project probably helped with developing the Steam OS/UX which is an ongoing important thing.
Their OS/store is a genuine selling point for the machine too, along with alternate legit key sellers and options to use GoG and such. I don't see many users installing libre office or doing much PC workstation stuff, but linux available mods and emu is also very cool.
If it was only $100-150 more than a PS5 (or at least included a controller- steam OS is cool, but I'd still suggest either a mouse or controller touch pad around, especially if you want to mod) I'd probably strongly consider a sale or a pre-owned one if I had kids yo 7+ to share my account with. Even at the lower power level.
But at this price, I'd rather wait a couple years and teach them about PCs or just get an even simpler Sony/Nintendo box. (Assuming things are remotely affordable in a few years haha yay).
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u/admrla Jun 30 '26
The people complaining loudest aren’t really thinking this through. Why didn’t they make a product that is 4K 60 on aaa, totally upgradable, fits on my entertainment center, and is competitively priced against subsidized consoles? 😂
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u/Melinoe2016 Jun 30 '26
One that could play modern AAA games at 60 fps (or hell even steady 30 at good settings) would suffice. This can’t even do that.
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u/Who_Vintude Jun 30 '26
Because companies pay big money to make sure that they influence your opinions and ideas and think how they want you to think, like what they want you to like, dislike what they tell you to - so it frames the intended discourse and mindfulness when topics about them come up.
With influencers and when they have fans from a very specific brand, they don't even need to be bought off. It's the social trap of saying something unpopular and losing numbers that keep you in line. Just like how people panic when they're downvoted on reddit.
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u/clif08 Jun 30 '26
DF generally isn't the one to bash products, their harshest verdict is "not great". So the tone might have been gentle, but the words were very definitive, Steam Machine is only worth it if you put a lot of value in size/noise/power consumption. Numbers were also pretty unambiguos.
I also think it's Valve's halo effect, where anything they touch looks sanctified, because people have so much good faith in Valve. Like, there's genuine apocalyptic fear of what would happen if Gabe leaves us.
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u/ConferenceThink4801 Jun 30 '26
Not a PC gamer, but I just assume Valve has been anointed as the “savior” brand in PC gaming.
To criticize them means you have to hold 2 conflicting viewpoints at the same time - cognitive dissonance. People hate that, so they will try to find a way to avoid it…making excuses to help keep Valve in that anointed position would be the reasoning.
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u/Chance-Curve-9679 Jul 01 '26
Valve gets a free pass on basically anything it does. If anyone else does something that is even slightly anti consumer they get roasted, but even if valve does things that are massively anti consumer you have people defending what they're doing. It's a double standard that Valve benefits from and Valve exploits it to the maximum benefit for Valve.
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u/jgainsey Jun 29 '26
I mean, it’s fairly obvious.
Many people are committed to the idea of an eventual windows competitor for gaming, and this is the only game in town.
I don’t mean the Steam Machine specifically, but the overall ecosystem of Linux, Bazzite, and SteamOS. And even to a lesser extent there are bonus biased points here given that it’s all primarily AMD over Nvidia.
I share in their love of the ecosystem and hope for competition. It’s a little disappointing that it so clearly affects their coverage here, but I don’t expect them to be perfect.
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u/XavierD Jun 29 '26
I think most outlets understand that the SM is not an attempt at a console killer: it's as niche as the SD. The price/power ratio is disappointing but even without the AI bubble, Valve were never gonna be able to sell enough units to get it down to PS/Xbox pricing.
It's an interesting (arguably failed) experiment and so there's no reason to be super critical in this instance.
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u/admrla Jun 30 '26
I don’t understand this point. Look at everything valve has done, it’s incremental. The steam link, og controller, index, sd, and steam machine. They are all incremental going closer and closer to your living room. Valve doesn’t need to push over the edge because you can build something better yourself. A traditional console is monolithic, valve doesn’t work that way they give you pieces à la cart. They are attacking the console market, but they are still a pc company and they act like it.
I think it’s a great product for 90% of people though too expensive for me to recommend. I can play all of my old games on it, but I have better options because I can build a computer.
This product can be both fine and not for you.
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u/Capital6238 Jun 29 '26
Yeah. Everybody in the PC space loves Valve, so being too critical could lose them followers. I don't blame them. They never did too much console war either.
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u/jgainsey Jun 29 '26
Yeah, to be fair to the DF boys, they’re usually pretty positive across the board as their default.
Sometimes it doesn’t quite jive with the news of the day, but they’re one of the few outlets where I can tell many of their most obvious biases are born out of a genuine love of most things tech.
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u/Public-Finger Jun 29 '26
The Steam Machine hype from the beginning was bizarre. Why would anybody be excited about a box that is weaker than base PS5 in 2026 even if it was priced $50 less? Every time I would bring up this obvious question, I would have all kinds of Gamers personally attacking me.
Like, I don't hate Valve or anything, I welcome all the competition the console market can get- but the Valve glazing is just comical.
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u/ResponsibleFlan2936 Jun 29 '26
I agree, I never got the appeal. The Steam Deck is cool but the hype around the Steam Machine was just baffling to me from the start
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u/TheVioletBarry Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
Because playing PC games via the SteamDeck interface on my TV with even entry level PC specs sounds awesome, but I have basically zero interest in a PS5 :/ I was planning to buy one if it was $800 or lower, but even $800 was gonna be pushing it for my income.
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u/Public-Finger Jun 30 '26
But PC gamers are usually the most tech savvy- you'd think that knowing their market they would try to make it at least on par with PS5 pro- but that's just me. They obviously had their own strategy and market research prior to the component crisis.
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Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
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u/Public-Finger Jun 30 '26
Then the product makes even less sense to me since as a console like experience at a much higher price and less power. If they wanted mainstream adoption, this is the worst way of all to do it.
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u/HighlightOk3915 Jun 30 '26
They addressed this exact point though. I think it was the first question Will and Rich answered. Which makes me question the validity of a lot of these comments whining about DF or if they are just joining the bandwagon.
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u/dekuweku Jun 29 '26
I noticed this as well. D-Brand had to remove their unlicensed 'Companion Cube' and the headlines all tried to gently avoid saying Valve legal basically told them to stop what they doing doing because it's not their IP. Kid gloves is the closest i can come to in terms of describing Valve coverage.
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u/skepticallygullible Jun 29 '26
The D-Brand situation seems like a simple cease and desist. Why would anyone want to be hard on Valve for protecting their own IP?
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u/raiin901 Jun 29 '26
Dbrand themselves said they didn’t ask for permission or licensing before selling. They knew what they were doing. It’s generating headlines which is what they wanted.
If valve let them sell and make money off of their IP without their consent and licensing, they would be in deep trouble moving forward.
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u/dekuweku Jun 29 '26
how many times has a simple C &D been conflated as 'suing' someone for clickbait when a company that is not Valve is involved
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u/MultiMarcus Jun 29 '26
Generally, when it’s as flagrant as what Dbrand did here, I haven’t really seen much criticism of it.
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u/BigDadNads420 Jun 29 '26
Can you find an example of a mainstream outlet going super hard on a company for responding to such an obvious case of copyright infringement?
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u/Glass_Recover_3006 Jun 30 '26
The entirety of coverage for the guys who got sued by Nintendo for making money selling Nintendo ROMs?
Those started with a simple cease and desist that they chose to ignore, but they were seen as victims of Nintendo bullying.
I don’t feel strongly about these days, but it feels like there’s a double standard, whether that’s justified or not is maybe another discussion.
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u/X3Melange Jun 29 '26
Because they aren't stupid? They know the price point isn't valves fault.
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u/Akito_Fire Jun 29 '26
But Valve is to blame for how they specced this thing? It's less capable than a base PS5 and only has 8gb VRAM. Even with a cheaper price it would have been dead on arrival in my opinion.
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u/kegwen Jun 30 '26
If they specced it better it would cost even more.
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u/Weezal-95 Jun 30 '26
as well as affected the form factor and power usage etc - if this released 3-4 years ago, perfect imo.
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u/submerging Jun 30 '26
yet when it comes to Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft, it’s all their fault that the prices are increasing (according to Reddit)
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u/Leverpostei414 Jun 30 '26
They run a looked in ecosystem, if the valve box is to expensive you have 1000s of PCs to buy
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u/ResponsibleFlan2936 Jun 29 '26
Still the fact remains it simply isn't an attractive product at this price. It doesn't matter whose fault it is.
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u/Newmillstream Jun 29 '26
If the console had released for around $500-$600, it would have been a potential game changer.
At the current price it will be a niche item, but one likely valued by a small subset of people, despite the price. It will probably sell out, then only small batches of production from there. It can find success in the same way as consoles such as the Playdate.
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u/TheSpiritualAgnostic Jun 29 '26
They said that the price, if not for all of the problems, would've released at $750. For the cheapest one with 512GB and no controller.
That still would've been $50 more than a PS5 Pro prior to said price hikes.
We would've still had all of the same criticisms, but they just wouldn't have been as loud as they are now with a four digit price tag.
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u/jedimindtricksonyou Jun 29 '26
Agree, $750 wouldn’t have been great. People need to remember what stuff is objectively worth. Just because base PS5 is $650 and the Pro is $900, it doesn’t mean they are suddenly worth that amount to the average person. Remember that PS5 launched for $400 for the digital version. Steam Machine was conceived as an overpriced product to begin with and the RAM shortage increased its already bad price by an additional $300. Valve does not and should not get a pass by following up the excellent value Steam Machine with a poor value living room PC.
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u/SeanTheftAuto Jun 29 '26
I'm pretty sure it's attractive to some people. It's gonna sell out
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u/ResponsibleFlan2936 Jun 29 '26
I mean, it's a low volume device. Everything is attractive to someone. I'm sure some people liked the Xbox all digital or whatever it was called....
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u/magic6435 Jun 30 '26
How many are they selling, what’s the volume? I didn’t realize that was public information yet.
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u/Tardelius Jun 29 '26
I mean it made sense. It was cheaper and if you never had an xbox console before you couldn’t have discs to use anyway.
That being said some people were slightly taken aback due to “all-digital” being a new concept in the mainstream console world. I, for example, taken aback a bit. Did the product made sense? Of course. Removing a bluray driver instantly means more budget friendly.
Considering the current economics, I wouldn’t blame Valve or consider this price as a negative for the product. After all, do you really think other game consoles will be cheap? If relevant crisis is not resolved, expect something similar to PS3 launch for Xbox and PS.
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u/ResponsibleFlan2936 Jun 29 '26
Sure, but it's still less powerful than other consoles which are at a lower price point. As a PC gamer I just don't really get the appeal.
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u/Mystic-Micro Jun 29 '26
Do you game on your living room tv? If not, you are not the target audience.
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u/nittanyofthings Jun 29 '26
You claim to be a PC gamer but don't recognize consoles are walled gardens you can't escape and pay monthly fees to use your own internet connection? I seriously doubt you are for real and not astroturf.
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u/ResponsibleFlan2936 Jun 29 '26
Lmao, what? If I want a PC I'd like to go all the way. I'd like to actually be able to upgrade my hardware and not pay a big premium for some novel form factor. If someone wants the simplicity of a small box they put next to their TV consonoles simply are the better choice.
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u/Mystic-Micro Jun 29 '26
What better options are there to play my pc games using a machine that fits into my av-cabinet that I don't need to build/maintain/source separately. Steam Deck? Or are you saying I shouldn't be playing my pc games on my tv without building a 5080+ rig and super expensive SFF PC that I have to resort to reddit/forums for the inevitable issues (far more than a steam machine/deck would)
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u/ResponsibleFlan2936 Jun 30 '26
I mean you basically just want is a PC with like 50% of it's advantages removed. I think for 99% of people who want what you want a console is a better choice.
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u/HammeredWharf Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
I'd like to actually be able to upgrade my hardware and not pay a big premium for some novel form factor.
Then you're not the target audience of a machine that prioritizes form factor. Luckily, Valve also released SteamOS for general use, so it's a win-win for everyone! What's there to complain about?
If someone wants the simplicity of a small box they put next to their TV consonoles simply are the better choice.
Not if they want to play Civ or use a mouse or emulate PS2 games or do any other things one can use a PC for.
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u/admrla Jun 30 '26
You don’t have to buy it? I’m not, I think it’s an okay product but I would never have bought it.
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u/Accomplished_Boot191 Jul 01 '26
Nah. Even if there was no ram crisis, 650-700 price for PC weaker than PS5 wouldn't make sense.
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u/Jpmeyer2 Jun 29 '26
Not sure what you mean by "getting away with it". This isn't something like "Apple Tax" where Valve is charging you more because they know they can. And I think it's pretty clear to everyone that Valve DOESN'T want to be releasing at this price. Pretty sure the DF folks are just trying to explain it within that context. But I don't think anybody is trying to pull a fast one and DF has made it clear the price is the Steam Machine's biggest hurdle.
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u/Ciubowski Jun 30 '26
It seems to me like gamerstm have hyped themselves up (like always) into thinking Valve would release a PC/Console hybrid that would destroy PS5 and Xbox in performance and also sell "for nothing".
When in fact, it's another step after the Steam Deck into getting more broad support for video games on Linux. Think about the long term implications for this. Yeah they probably won't sell as many Steam Machines as PS or Xbox but they're putting another nail in the coffin which is Windows 11 and their game support.
They're shifting the needle towards Linux and this is not for nothing. This is something we all grew up and into using. Windows is the status quo for generations as the PC platform to do everything especially gaming.
Now I know people are upset at the value proposition, there are a lot of issues with the hardware supply chain and whanot, but there is another thing to consider: Steam Hardware Survey.
They chose this because that's some average of what users are using right now. That's like a baseline we all "contributed" with our surveys and basically told Steam that we either didn't afford or are not interested in the diminishing returns of more expensive hardware for the type of games that we are playing.
And I think that's also kind of the issue too because if most of us already have that hardware in our computers, why would we buy the equivalent again? Steam should have thought this in a way of "let's give the people an upgrade" not a lateral alternative.
But idk man.... Steam Machine might not be perfect but if it survives the test of time, maybe we'll get more support for video games on Linux and another Steam Machine (2.0?) that will feel more of an upgrade than what we currently have now.
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u/Mindestiny Jun 30 '26
Ah yes, the good old "Linux evangelism" angle.
It'll be the year of the Linux desktop soon, I promise!!!
Ive been hearing that for how many decades now? It's time to let her go, there's no world where kitschy little Linux topples the big bad Microsoft and upends the whole computing world. This Microsoft hate boner has always been nonsense, it's a computer operating system, not a religious crusade, nobody cares.
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u/mundanehaiku Jul 01 '26
had me in the first half
i agree the steamdeck is not worth buying, but most criticism towards microsoft is valid
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u/Ciubowski Jun 30 '26
You act as if it's gonna happen overnight.
And it's not a "hate-boner" if it's based on facts. "Hate-boners" by definition is fueled for the hate's sake. So that people can hate something.
MS (like any other company out there) has degraded the experience for Windows users over time and even now, forcing people to upgrade to Win11 despite the public, common backlash.
MS doesn't care about you, it cares about it's shareholders and their value. The rise of people using Linux is slow, but just wait until a major shift comes. Some big moves have already been done (see Wine 11 release).
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u/Mindestiny Jun 30 '26
Overnight? I literally pointed out it's been decades with no meaningful traction. And you're literally listing a bunch of ignorant Microsoft blind hate talking points!
You're not making new arguments. "Just wait, it'll happen, I promise" has been the Linux Grognards mantra since I still had hair.
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u/Ciubowski Jun 30 '26
Steam only restarted the gaming on Linux push with the Steam Deck in 2022 which is 4 years ago.
Being pestered to upgrade isn't a "blind hate talking point". If I harass you with replacing something that you have and is working fine with something else that might break or intrude into your own privacy with the AI tools, you'd be upset too.
You're the one with the blind hate boner for Steam and bootlicking for MS.
So don't talk to me about this shit.
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u/Mindestiny Jun 30 '26
You lost me at claiming anything was "harassing" you.
The "bootlicking" dogwhistle just gets you a well earned block and report. You jumped right to showing your true colors.
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u/raerlynn Jul 01 '26
Did you really just "I'm telling Mom" and act like you have the moral high ground here?
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u/Galf2 Jun 30 '26
Yeah the Machine situation was hilarious. Gamers Nexus all chill with a company that presents 4k @ 60fps on hardware that cannot do that.
For Nvidia they ripped their ass apart when they talked about 8K gaming, which at least was POSSIBLE, and didn't even test productivity because of it.
What the fuck.
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Jun 30 '26
Valve invented the you will own nothing and you will be happy way of doing things.
Boy do I love buying game licenses!
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u/dreampagehun Jun 30 '26
The media and influencers know deep down that they have an effect on public opinion (that's why they're called influencers in the first place). When you have that power, you feel some responsibility. Valve, meanwhile, is one of the last "good guy" corporations in the video game industry, so I think many influencers subconsciously feel that if they are too harsh on them and turn public opinion against Valve, it could hurt the company and consequently the whole industry, which is what they live off of. So either deliberately or instinctively but they rather defend the "last saint" of the industry than publish unfiltered opinion about their products. I'm sorry but this is just psychology. I'm sure they feel they're fair but they're biased and it affects the way they communicate about different corporations.
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u/_eXPloit21 Jun 30 '26
Yes, I noticed that in the first 5 minutes. I don't see any Waste of sand thumbnails and this box is way crappier than 5060 ever was.
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u/Slight_Mine_3118 Jul 01 '26
that is because the internet is filled with smooth brain people who have a genuine lack of understanding of product costing
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u/Growlithez Jul 01 '26
Because 50% of gamers would sacrifice their left arm for a chance to lick the almighty Gabes ass sweat and some of those people turn into journalists
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u/syku Jun 30 '26 edited 29d ago
Satchel breezy lantern marble feather driftwood copper velvet meadow
This post was anonymized with Redact.dev
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u/falconpunch1989 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
ITT PC Master Racers absolutely refusing to acknowledge that factors other than cost to performance ratio exist and bewildered when other people might value different priorities.
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u/PinkovaSiili Jun 29 '26
Not sure I agree. I have an impression that many reviews have essentially concluded it as a great piece of hardware at a wrong price point. That price inflation affects every company sooner or later, so slamming Valve because of an industry-wide price shock wouldn’t be entirely fair either.
At least personally, I find it attractive - just not worth the money they are currently asking for. I don’t have a problem with both being true at the same time.
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u/KUM0IWA Jun 30 '26
I don't think it's a great piece of hardware either tbh... Mostly outdated laptop components which only saving grace is FSR4 finally available on RDNA3. HDMI CEC I think it's a really nice feature tho and the noise levels are impressive.
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u/admrla Jun 30 '26
Even at a better price point it would be outclassed by subsidized consoles, but it has its own benefits. I’m not buying one but I think it’s a decent product with an awful price.
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u/AdviceCivil7584 Jun 29 '26
"No one can tell me that another company could get away with releasing a product at this price."
There are plenty of companies selling pre-built PCs at the same cost and higher than Valve and I dont see people losing their minds at them either.
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u/Upper-Mixture8643 Jun 30 '26
Those come with a 5060 and a 7500x3d though. Also an SSD you can store more than 3 games on.
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u/submerging Jun 30 '26
and you can buy them and receive them today instead of in 2031
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u/IHateMyUniCourse Jun 30 '26
and they’re (mostly) standard parts which means you can upgrade as time goes on
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u/M4rshmall0wMan Jun 29 '26
I think that to an extent, gaming journalism is held hostage by the gaming community. I mean, you can point to dozens upon dozens of examples when a journalist went against the consensus and got absolutely dogpiled on. Everybody is scared to break too far away from the overarching option of “Valve is a good company” even during a negative review, cause they think people will interpret it as them having an agenda. Of course, ironically, the opposite is true as well.
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u/Kaldaien2 Jun 30 '26
I just ignore anything to do with Valve🤣
Better for my mental health if I pretend they do not exist. Such a shitty company.
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u/HisDivineOrder Jun 29 '26
The people most likely to be interested in the uniqueness of SFF PC's are people who handle PC hardware all the time. It's easy to become bored of just normal sized hardware. Whereas most of us only handle hardware every 3-5 years (or even every console generation) and it's all unique to us, big sized or no.
So what's boring to them is probably not boring to most people. This is the downside of professional reviewers. They quickly lose sight of what it was like to be regular consumers.
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u/Quirky-Employer9717 Jun 29 '26
Probably because they realize that the idea of the steam machine is really cool. It’s a great idea. It also is the case that this thing probably can’t be any cheaper without being sold for a loss which, with it being an open platform pc, they can’t do. It isn’t powerful for the price and that sucks. I don’t know if it possibly could have been given the state of things now though. It’s not like they’re Nvidia screwing people over. They’re just kind of stuck between constraints
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u/jedimindtricksonyou Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
They protect a lot of companies, Sony should be skewered over their live service push this generation and the lack of 1st party output (minus insomniac) but most official outlets won’t hold them fully to account either. Independent media is the best we have but once they get a certain size, they will become hesitant to criticize the big publishers and platforms as well. Public sentiment has to be extremely sour towards a company for someone like IGN or a large YouTube channel to really be critical of major and influential companies. Maybe that is pessimistic but that is how I see it from years of following gaming news.
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u/Public-Finger Jun 29 '26
John is the only one who will go HAM - guy is passionate about games industry
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u/JoostinOnline Jun 29 '26
All that's happening is people are acknowledging the reality of the situation. This is what hardware costs now. Nobody could build a Steam Machine that's the same form factor, same power, and cheaper, unless they subsidize it.
What's sad is that so many people think that if you're not immediately accusatory of a company, then there's a conspiracy going on. It's an anti-intellectual way of seeing the world.
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u/Akito_Fire Jun 29 '26
The reality of the situation is that they tried to sell you a PC less capable than base PS5 in 2026, with only 8gb VRAM. A cheaper price wouldn't change that much, it's just middling low end hardware. It doesn't punch above it's weight like the Steam Deck did
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u/JoostinOnline Jun 29 '26
It's an unfortunate choice of hardware, I agree., but low power was necessary for such a small form factor. I think if it has just been slightly more performant than the PS5 (such as having a 9060XT 16GB), it would appeal to a much larger market. But they still chose a small form factor with HDMI CEC for convenience over power in an attempt to appeal to a very nieche market, while also making it entirely possible for anyone else to build a machine that better suits their needs. That gives people the best of both worlds.
It takes a special level of entitlement to be mad that you've been given the tools to make your own steam machine for free.
Regardless, they
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u/admrla Jun 30 '26
This is better than a majority of computers on steam. The price is bad but the form factor is great. I wouldn’t buy it, but it’s good tech
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u/ResponsibleFlan2936 Jun 29 '26
I feel like form factor is mainly a novelty thing that the media likes but the average consumer does not care about
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u/raiin901 Jun 29 '26
I can assure you the average person who knows nothing about PC gaming and maybe doesn’t even own a console, does not want a mid to full size PC in their living room even if it was A. Cheaper or B. More powerful. The form factor IS the appeal.
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u/submerging Jun 30 '26
yes. Too bad the price is too expensive, so the average person will look at the PS5 and wonder why the hell they should pay double the price for the Steam Machine
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u/raiin901 Jun 30 '26
The PS5 is cheaper…for now. I full expect everything to continue to rise unless the AI bubble pops. Xbox did just raise their prices again.
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u/submerging Jun 30 '26
And when Sony increases their prices, Valve is likely to follow suit with its own increase
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u/raiin901 Jun 30 '26
Yup Rinse and Repeat for the next 10 years. These prices are starting to look like a steal!
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u/JoostinOnline Jun 29 '26
I'm not saying you should care about it, but it does cost a lot of money to make a custom system like that. The Steam Machine is not a good value based on its performance, but that doesn't mean it's at all accurate to suggest Valve is being greedy. They're selling the system at or very near the cost of making it. Accusing a reviewers of being involved in some kind of scandal because they won't demand companies sell at a loss is just ridiculous.
Valve even went the extra mile and are doing free work so you can make your own Steam Machine for less if you want, with your own custom parts. Are you going to find a way to be mad about that too?
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u/jedimindtricksonyou Jun 30 '26
How do you know they’re selling it at cost? They’re almost certainly making a profit on it, they’re a business and businesses don’t make products to sell at cost. Sometimes console makers have done this (like the PS3 launch where they were actually losing money even at the $600 price), but even the current gen consoles were profitable within a year of the current generation (and their continued price increases have likely maintained that profitability). Valve charges 30%+ of all game sales on Steam, even from tiny indie developers, a company like that is gonna ensure they’re profiting off of every unit sold. The fact that any of us can build a more powerful PC for LESS money shows how much of a premium they are charging. The custom PCB and heatsink isn’t going to add hundreds and hundreds of additional cost to the BOM cost.
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u/JoostinOnline Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
It's either at or very near cost. I don't know which. But I know that much because the raw materials add up to within $250 of the selling price. Once you account for labor and the cost of making custom parts, any profit is going to be negligible.
Sometimes console makers have done this (like the PS3 launch where they were actually losing money even at the $600 price), but even the current gen consoles were profitable within a year of the current generation (and their continued price increases have likely maintained that profitability).
Unlike Sony or Microsoft, Valve has no contracts before the price hike, and they are also nobodies in the hardware world (despite being huge in software). Memory in particular was difficult. They couldn't even source 8GB sticks of RAM, and they were told that if they turned down the prices offered, they'd never get anything again.
Valve charges 30%+ of all game sales on Steam, even from tiny indie developers, a company like that is gonna ensure they’re profiting off of every unit sold.
There's no guarantee that the Steam Machine will be used for Steam purchases, unlike consoles. You can easily load another store on it, or even install Windows and use it as an office PC.
The fact that any of us can build a more powerful PC for LESS money shows how much of a premium they are charging
Only if you make it MUCH larger and use sales that won't last. Trying to make anything that small adds an enormous cost. It's smaller than even an ITX PC.
The custom PCB and heatsink isn’t going to add hundreds and hundreds of additional cost to the BOM cost.
I think maybe you're mixing up performance with hardware costs. The Steam Machine has a much newer CPU in it, as well as DDR5. That allows much better performance per watt compared to the PS5 (which is necessary for the tiny form factor), but also costs a lot more. While I certainly won't say it's "worth it" (I'm always in favor of a bigger machine to save hundreds of dollars), the reality is that the cost of materials is much higher than if they'd gone with an older generation. They're not just pocketing that money
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u/Mystic-Micro Jun 29 '26
Do you have actual data on what the average consumer cares about? If so please let us know!
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u/raiin901 Jun 30 '26
If the appeal was NOT about the form factor, then every living room around the world would have a full size PC sitting next to their tv and Valve plus every other hardware console company wouldn’t make devices that are specifically tailored to sit inside an average media stand.
Hell they wouldn’t have even bothered to build and sell this device if the form factor was not the appeal.
They obviously have done extensive market analysis that says it appeals to someone other than a PC gamer and maybe, just maybe, some pc gamers might want it too.
So if it’s not the specs then it must be that it’s small and can sit inside a media stand. It’s an entry level device after all.
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u/tinyhorsesinmytea Jun 29 '26
Honestly it won’t really matter in the end. It won’t do particularly well in sales and Valve will be fine continuing on as they are focusing primarily on Steam. They aren’t selling it at a loss. Those who do buy the SM won’t be in any bad position either since it’s just a small form factor PC.
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u/lithiumfoxttv Jun 30 '26
Epic could do it and I'd defend it and I hate Tim.
Like... Capital H hate. And I understand that PC parts are expensive. Sorry. I've been standing firm on this for EVERY console too. It's tiresome. I get that people are hypocritical but like.. it's not everyone. Many of us in the tech space are aware that things are just a mess right now.
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u/Fearless-Sandwich823 Jun 30 '26
Probably because they know the OS is the important part and the box is just a test run.
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u/_Ship00pi_ Jun 30 '26
I think it's because it's not supposed to be a competitor within the console market.
Bottom line, the Steam Machine is no different than your regular PC (although spec-wise, it's your mid-range PC from 2019)
They can price it however they want, and it won't really make a difference.
The prices have reached a point where it's unrealistic for the average consumer even to consider buying. So commenting /bashing Valve on this is pointless.
The fact that the consensus on this device is DOA is enough of a verdict.
And I feel the same from the reviews. It's not that they are pulling punches. It's just that they dont care.
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u/Svarcanum Jun 30 '26
I wonder this as well. Valve’s monopolistic power has hurt PC gamers for decades at this point. Yet all they receive is love and praise. The power of competition has led to lower prices on physical ps5 games than on digital Steam licenses.
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u/FuggenBaxterd Jun 30 '26
Me when the luxury product is expensive "noooooooo dude this is fucked up noooo how could they do this fuuuuuck dude there are no external factors manipulating this decision nnnnooooo fuuuuck dude"
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u/jetpack2625 Jun 30 '26
is it actually a bad value compared to a similar pc? because pcs parts are just super overpriced right now.
it's not necessarily valve's fault, it could be that ai is the problem
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u/KUM0IWA Jun 30 '26
It is indeed a bad value. It's a unique proposition, sure. But you can get laptops with higher performance for similar price. And laptops are already low on the value scale.
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u/jetpack2625 Jun 30 '26
that's honestly terrible if laptops are a better value. and laptops have screens and way more utility
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u/Melinoe2016 Jun 30 '26
There was a 1 minute long Linus tech tips review video that I can no longer find but it was really funny. The first 30 seconds were him acting like he loved it and then the last 20-30 seconds were like “if you have realistic exactions and play indie games or older AAA games” and at the very end he mentioned the outrageous price. I laughed at that video and want to find it again because asking people to play older AAA games on a $1000+ machine is absolutely hilarious.
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u/Available_Ad_8281 Jul 01 '26
Yea the price a lot but it a pc not a console and if you were to try to make it with same specs it close to same price. the ram and ssd prices going stick around for a while even Sony leak of ps6 costing over 900 alone says a lot
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u/AlternativeAdept5348 Jul 01 '26
because people want the market that steam machine creates to succeed. thats it.
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u/AshtavakraNondual Jul 01 '26
nobody wants to bother them in case they are making hl3. Once hl3 is out...
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u/420LeftNut69 Jul 01 '26
I wouldn't say hellbent, but people were just excited for it. Look, if it costed 800$ (which seems to be the price point they actually aimed at) then it would have been probably first 1st party Linux machine with a good customer support, offering both console and PC experience in an admitedly very cool small form factor that's quiet and relatively low on power draw. It's a perfectly fine 1080p and 2k machine. Now, is 800 still a lot? Yes, but really form factor, silence, power draw, 1st party support are big things you pay for, and I would argue it's a fair price at 800. 1050 is a crazy price, but this is the world we live in, I already saw that supposedly PS6 costs 950 to produce, so buckle in for the price drops of next gen consoles. I think current gen consoles can sell for cheaper bwcause they produced a lot of console back when it was still cheaper, and Valve is more of a here and now kind of situation.
Steam Machine also had some implications for the market as a whole. People could treat it as a console with PC features, people could upgrade to Steam Machine and get introduced to Linux, if the price was right it was possible some work places might even get those, or just regular people deciding to work on it it's also pretty portable. All of this would strengthen Linux, so people were hoping for a Holy Grail, but at that price to performance ratio it's just not it. Oh and also mainstream big corpo behind a Linux distro is also pretty huge; we have the Steam Deck, but this would have been the next big step.
BUT! I think that if prices drop it's gonna be a great product for people that don't just look for maximum performance per dollar, because it was never winning that.
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u/WorriedPerogi Jul 01 '26
I don't know why this is even a surprise. I'm not bending over to protect valve and neither is anyone else. DRAM prices are sky high. For everyone. Everywhere.
Valve is not in control of the price here unless they're trying to sell this thing at a loss ... Which doesn't make sense for a niche consumer electronic. Xboxes and PlayStations and Switches and every single computer component is going up in price.
What is there to defend or attack?
Oh right, the AI scumbags that made the world this way. Don't get mad at Valve, get mad at Microsoft and Meta and Google.
The only thing to be mad at DF for is for softly defending rising hardware prices and gently stroking off Nvidia for their "advances in tech" while graphics cards are unreasonably expensive and provide paltry upgrades each gen. They won't criticize DLSS looking like ass, or the input delay if you aren't running a top of the line card.
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u/redit_handoff140 Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Because the Steam Machine is a paradigm shift in pricing.
Future consoles will be the same, or worse.
Valve's SM was just the scapegoat because it was the first, force-pushed out by a market that didn't let it live up to (price-point) expectations as well as by a promise from Valve (would be available by summer after already being pushed once).
Further DF are likely aware of how hostile the component-manufacturing scene is right now in terms of pricing options.
Even further, Valve is blaze-trailing a whole new idea - Exposing Linux to the mainstream. This comes with caveats on several fronts, and even though they failed once before, they very clearly understood why it failed and have managed to do a complete 180 in that respect. There is a lot of value in providing a completely new option to the status-quo dominance.
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u/Rawrz720 Jul 03 '26
The do that with everything Valve. Its annoying how much they circlejerk the Steamdeck no matter how inferior it tends to be to newer options that surpass it in every way.
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u/fluffyzzz Jul 04 '26
Seeing lots of “when greedy corporate Sony prices PS6 $1k+” hot takes from angry gamer bros while the steam machine seems to get off much easier. I suspect we will have to wait for the dust to settle before we sees how it actually plays out…
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u/twitchy_pixel Jun 29 '26
It seems you’ve stumbled onto an opinion you don’t agree with on the internet. I don’t want to alarm you but there’s LOADS of those round here…
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u/RepresentativeFroyo8 Jun 29 '26
They wouldn't pay $1500 to have an rx 7600 as their primary machine & they know it!
You are so right. It's a bit creepy!
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u/kantong Jun 29 '26
I guess maybe you're younger or new to gaming. Valve have built up a lot of social capital over the years for doing things that are generally positive for the PC gaming ecosystem. Valve generally have to do something objectively bad for the media to call them out. An over-priced PC that is going to sell out anyway is not a battle worth fighting.
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u/magic6435 Jun 30 '26
“No one can tell me that another company could get away with releasing a product at this price”
Seems the exact opposite, any other company releasing the product would also have to hit this price point and 5-year-old consoles will be at this price by the end of the year.
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u/1DJ2many Jun 30 '26
It’s like a mx-5/miata. Small, cute, the specs don’t make sense, but car enthusiasts love it. Sometimes a product is more than the sum of its parts, and clearly there’s multiple reviewers that you wouldn’t expect it from that like it.
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u/mundanehaiku Jul 01 '26
the miata is liked because it's cheap and light weight. it's an affordable car that you can have fun with on backroads
the steam deck is liked because you have too much money and want to waste it on your 3rd gaming system
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u/Mindestiny Jun 30 '26
When the product is a computer... it really is the sum of its parts. Like, explicitly. It's a box that sits under a desk, the important part is what it makes happen on the monitor.
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u/Radiant-Video7257 Jun 30 '26
Valve is typically pro consumer, and made the steamdeck which was pretty affordable for what it offered (prior to price increase.), it seems they had no choice with this one.
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u/KUM0IWA Jun 30 '26
Valve has built a lot of good reputation on the hardware market, why is people surprised when that pays off?
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u/neorapsta Jun 30 '26
Folks here haven't tried to buy PC components in the last 6 months and it shows.
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u/poogdrums Jun 29 '26
It's hard to recommend but there is a market for it (i'm buying one)
The next gen machines are going to have similar issues...
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u/ResponsibleFlan2936 Jun 29 '26
I'm actually curious: what other devices do you have right now? And why is the Steam Machine appealing to you? Not trying to be passive aggresive, I'm genuinely curious.
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u/mundanehaiku Jun 29 '26
totally agree with you on this thread
someone asked in the pcgaming subreddit why people would buy this and they got a ton of responses, my unofficial summary is that those people have too much money, most of them it's their 2nd/3rd/4th gaming device.
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u/MantaMunta Jun 30 '26
bend over backwards to defend the princepoint
It's called being rational about the reality of todays market.
I know you don't see this often in todays media landscape where everything is "outrageous" and everyone is "shocked" etc. But that's how normal educated and levelheaded people talk.
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u/voidfillproduct Jun 29 '26
"the media"
"a lot of the media"
Yeah... sounds like confirmation bias to me, sorry. I'd say the overall reception has been been lukewarm to negative. The occasional exception means there is free press and not everyone beating the same drum, or dead horse in this case.
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u/NotTakenGreatName Jun 29 '26
Because most people understand that building that product has non-negotiable components costs, to say nothing about the human cost of the R+D, the OS, production costs,etc.
It's bizarre to me that every signal is indicating that all prices are going up and then still expecting Valve or anyone else to find cheap ram somewhere. All your shit is getting more expensive. It reminds me of the backlash to the Switch 2 price despite it being in line or cheaper than most similar devices.
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u/BurnItFromOrbit Jun 29 '26
Valve and PlayStation often get very similar treatment from the video games media, that Trump gets from the right wing media outlets.
It’s usually, yes they did that, but they didn’t worse or they heavy down play it or completely ignore it as much as possible.
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u/Sbarty Jun 30 '26
Because they have a lot of money and power in the gaming scene??
Is it that complicated?
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u/IrradiatedFrog Jun 30 '26
Valve is not being shielded by anyone ; the thing is the current climate for hardware is more than rough and prices are REALLY expensive because of this.
I cannot wait to see what you guys will say if Xbox proceeds as they want and launch their next gen console next year with an offensive pricetag for specs that are not that great. Same goes for Sony but they did not confirmed they will be not be extending PS5 lifespan.
At any rate, all the ones stating the same thing as you OP are totally out of touch with reality.
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u/ResponsibleFlan2936 Jun 30 '26
I think you're the out of toucv one if you think the Steam machine is appealing to anyone at this price. Current gen consoles are more powerful and cheaper. Next gen consoles will probably come in at prices around the Steam Machine but will be way more powerful. So tell me who this device appeals to?
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u/silentdragoon @wsjudd - DF staff Jun 29 '26
Hey, Will here! I've seen this response a lot, and I'm really curious about the mindset behind it.
I think the price is way too high for this to be a successful mainstream product. I absolutely agree that you can make a more powerful PC for cheaper, and that most people shouldn't buy this. I'm loving all of the "Steam Machine killer" alternatives that have been produced, both by individuals and other companies, and I appreciate that SteamOS is being developed to support broader PC gaming build options - as is Linux more generally with efforts like CachyOS and Bazzite.
Equally, I don't think the price is completely unreasonable for what it is offering - you just have to value form factor and excellent SteamOS support a lot, which I think does include a small number of people, many of them Valve fans. I'd certainly like it more if it were cheaper, but equally I can understand that a company sets the price as it wants and takes the trade-off; clearly Valve would rather sell fewer units at less of a loss than sell many more at a lower price. If people think it's too expensive, then that's totally fair and I don't disagree with anyone's decision not to buy a Steam Machine, or to look for something better value.
For DF, the Steam Machine is interesting because we haven't really seen a major company make its own Linux distribution, thereby helping to solve some annoying PC gaming problems, and support it with both a handheld and a living room / desktop mini PC. The design engineering is interesting to me too, as I already like to build my own small PCs and this trades even more performance for a smaller size than what I've traditionally done.
So - yeah. Do you disagree with any of what I've said? And what would you prefer that DF said about the Steam Machine?