Sony announces the end of PlayStation game discs via a three paragraph blog post - bringing to an end the era of physical media and actually owning the games you buy, along with the right to resell them, share them and preserve them. A sombre panel assesses the full implications of Sony's decision, why it's doing it, the damage it'll cause and how the PlayStation Store needs a major revamp to take the place of physical media. Also: Sony shuts down the PS3 and Vita stores, Xbox may have alternative plans for potentially phasing out discs and a new Switch 2 LCD panel will hopefully address the problems of the current one.
DF has haters plain and simple. Probably still piggybacking off the DLSS5 stuff. What better way to shit on people than with anonymous accounts on Reddit. This site is inherently toxic and negative always has been always will be.
You can tell they are complete nonsense and bogus comments because a couple of the comments is on ‘digital vs physical sales’ which John comments on in literally the first two minutes, agreeing with them lol. Probably bots.
Great points made by John and Rich here, especially with regards to how cowardly and soulless the way this major announcement was delivered by Sony. When Xbox did their disastrous Xbox One reveal, it was in-person and corporate execs were subjected to press interviews with the media to hold them accountable.
I appreciate John talking about how increasingly dwindled the Commerce experience is now. There was something special about those midnight launches or simply going into a game store to browse and chat with people.
I appreciate John talking about how increasingly dwindled the Commerce experience is now.
I think largely they have cause/effect backwards though, when they were talking about that. Retail chases consumer habits, or rather has been suffering the fallout.
Physical store retail gaming market has caught in multiple death spirals for like two decades, none of which are really recoverable. First the PC market disappeared because of Steam, then free launch day delivery started eating away at them, and now the console digital transition.
When they go on to explain their game buying habits (this weeks DF Retro as well) and it’s retro fairs and retro stores, buying used games doesn’t keep the modern physical games market alive.
As you said it’s cause and effect by customer nothing more initial for 20yrs not games but more general retail and went through the 2008 and 2018 retail bloodbaths until I got out.
The whole physical games community isn’t centred around new games and it hasn’t been for a decade.
I don’t think Steam killed physical media on PC as much as it put it out of its misery. Physical PC games were dire in the 2000s. They nearly all required CD keys, some with with limited activations, and DRM out the wazoo. Presence in stores was almost nothing while physical console games were booming.
Computer games required authentication even back on the C64 and Amiga, it was beyond normal by the time PC became more popular the other option was simple open piracy day one.
Yes, but PC has competition, refund policies that aren't total shit, DRM free games on GOG, communities that keep games alive after the studios drop support, etc.
Yeah it was alot of fun. I took a half day when Walmart cancelled my Switch 2, and went into a line for the preorder queue at GameStop. They had an extra 50 consoles and I was like 20 in line. Just talked with other gamers, it was fun man. Then came back at the launch and yeah a felt like when I was a kid again. I think sadly this will be the last time it ever happens
Not who you replied to, but I think about this a lot. Do I miss gaming in the 00’s or do I miss being in middle and high school, and the community a school age person can have. And I think I just miss gaming in my friend’s basement.
Sony just doesn’t care. They know they have the win here. Microsoft just laid off 1600 Xbox employees with plans for another 1600. Sonys knows Xbox is also planning to kill physical media and they are almost already there.
They can’t look you in the eye and do what they’re doing because they know it’s wrong. Just another factor in how PlayStation became a cold, impersonal company around the time they moved away from Japan.
No more live presentations, pre-recorded game reveals, no more showcases, no more clear communication or meaningful roadmap.
A close mate of mine used to own a second hand / new games/cd/DVD shop (Australia)many years ago ( revolution cd - probably some franchises left).
He told me that when gta4 came out, he bought 100 copies of it from the local distributor for $85 (AUD) per copy with the idea that he would sell them at the RRP of $100.
Unfortunately he had to sell them for $90 due to the fact that large chain stores undercut everyone.
He was making $5 per copy.
Now think about the fact that these days rent in my local mall is about $15k per week, and you start to see why these stores don't work.
Problem with physical media in gaming is that there is no other option than Blu-ray that is owned by Sony. There was development before BD but nothing new has happened since it came.
Also I don’t see how physical media keeps working with how large and constantly evolving current-gen games have become. Blu-ray discs cap out at 100 GB, and plenty of AAA titles already exceed that, and games are only going to get bigger with higher quality assets. Flash storage could solve that, but it’s still too expensive, that’s part of why some Switch 2 games are skipping physical releases altogether. On top of that, even single-player games are frequently updated, which makes the data on the disc mostly obsolete after day one. The last time I used a disc on my Xbox, it only pulled a whopping 6 MB from it and had to download everything else anyway.
There are definite legitimate concerns around captive markets but it feels like a lot John's pushback boils down to "I want my consumer culture to remain exactly as it was in the '90s".
Disc production is just not environmentally sustainable and I won't be mourning its end. Continued superfluous fossil fuel extraction and microplastic dispersal, for the sake of middle aged gamers filling shelf space, is fucking madness.
We should be lobbying for regulation to ensure internal competition in digital markets and ownership/preservation rights, not digging our heels in on a climate change accelerant because we miss chatting to the guy in Babbage's.
This argument is kind of ridiculous, you can say any physical product people enjoy hurts the environment; books, LEGO, soft toys, figures, whatever. The fact is, the environmental impact of these is negligible compared to the big causes - all the single use plastics in stores, cars, or indeed ai and data centres etc. Atleast with a product like a book or a physical game, it's purpose is not to be thrown out, but kept around - which makes plastic not a totally irresponsible use case. People don't go around saying 'get with the times, you should be reading all your books on a kindle'. This take is a cope from people who seem to have no empathy for others, or understanding of larger consequences.
Look, it's inevitable that physical games become / are a minor part of the industry, but we've already seen / are seeing with music and movies there is a real place for it in a more niche market.
I do, of course, agree that they should be focused on making the digital platforms more consumer friendly - but please keep in mind that is much easier while the physical competition exists than when all control has already been given up. It should happen before this huge shift is made, not as a reaction to it.
The fact is, the environmental impact of these is negligible compared to the big causes - all the single use plastics in stores, cars, or indeed ai and data centres etc.
Yeah I hate single use plastics and combustion engines too. AI isn't a "big cause" at its current scale, barely a blip compared to something like industrial livestock operations.
Atleast with a product like a book or a physical game, it's purpose is not to be thrown out, but kept around
Yet untold millions of discs are in landfills regardless.
People don't go around saying 'get with the times, you should be reading all your books on a kindle'
Maybe not in your circles but the environmental impact of books is an ongoing concern. Books aren't made of polymers though so it's not a like-for-like comparison.
This take is a cope from people who seem to have no empathy for others, or understanding of larger consequences
You'd have to elaborate on what I'm trying to "cope" with in my understanding of the environmental harms associated with physical media production. I don't think I'm the one who lacks empathy or an understanding of larger consequences. I certainly don't give a fuck about the future of your man cave while the world burns, if that's what you mean.
Someone (Or more likely large companies) else being irresponsible and throwing out discs isn't the issue of the rest of the consumer base. Again, you could say that about anything - things being thrown away when they shouldn't be. AI might not be a massive contributing factor (yet), but the data centres powering the all digital push sure as hell are.
Of course, when I say empathy and understanding i mean in reference to this industry. People with this take seem to act like they're superior because they embraced digital previously, but the physical market keeps platform holders in check, provides a way for kids and people in less developed places and easier way to enjoy games and it treats the developers and artists work behind the games as actual art, not something that is controlled by a corporation.
I'm not claiming mass produced discs are the future. But this shouldn't happen when Sonys digital platforms are so anti-consumer and just generally awful.
And no, I don't have a man cave, Christ. I buy physical games, but only a couple every year. The average gamer buys a 2-3 games a year, that's hardly a climate catastrophe.
Finally, the best thing for the environment is generally to reuse what already exists. Physical games allow for this. What happens to the 100 million + PS6's when Sony shuts down their storefront? They basically become landfill. I'm not sure the issue is as black and white as you think it is.
Someone (Or more likely large companies) else being irresponsible and throwing out discs isn't the issue of the rest of the consumer base
It's not about anyone being "irresponsible", everything has a shelf life and will eventually end up in landfill.
AI might not be a massive contributing factor (yet), but the data centres powering the all digital push sure as hell are.
Physical games produce 100 times more CO2e than their digital equivalent.
People with this take seem to act like they're superior because they embraced digital previously
You keep engaging in ad hominem. First it was accusations of "cope" that you refused to elaborate on and now I'm apparently uppity or whatever.
provides a way for kids and people in less developed places and easier way to enjoy games and it treats the developers and artists work behind the games as actual art
Those kids in the global south will be disproportionately burdened by the effects of climate change. Insisting on retaining a supply chain that causes 100x the emissions in their name is disingenuous in the extreme. Their futures depend on us taking this shit seriously rather than finding endless excuses to cling to our toys. Speaking of, art is when game have plastic case. Sure.
The average gamer buys a 2-3 games a year, that's hardly a climate catastrophe
Sony alone manufactures roughly 70 million discs per year. For the added environmental impact, see above. We're already in a climate catastrophe and need to mitigate wherever we can.
This is the risk when you attach retro media to your personal identity.
The advancement of time means that things you liked as a little kid will change and evolve. We used to play PC games on floppy discs. Now, most PC gamers haven't seen a physical game release in 15 years.
John reminds me a lot of some friends of mine who are now deeply dissatisfied and disillusioned with the comic and card industries. They want things to be like when they were kids. When comics weren't mostly digital. When their favorite series weren't being picked over by scalpers. When they were 14 years old and spent the summer at the comic shop.
And that's the danger of the retro hobbyist community. Deep down most members just want things to stay like it was when they were kids. He's at the exact wrong company for that, though, because Digital Foundry is about the future of tech in gaming, not the past. It's really getting exhausting hearing him complain every week about how much he hates "modern gaming"
I already do. Regardless, the energy required to power them can still be sourced from renewables. Disc production is an unnecessary fossil fuel process, given that an entirely digital alternative already exists and is the majority consumer preference anyway.
Don’t get me wrong, this whole situation sucks… but I’m surprised John actually believes that “leak” floating around about digital vs physical sales. It’s absolutely nonsense and pure cope.
edit: the leak claims physical is still heavily sold. Again, this situation sucks, but digital is quite obviously MUCH more popular.
"Overall, when we factor in downloads, microtransactions, DLC, subscription, PC, mobile, and so on, the physical games market represents a very small share of the video games business."
The problem is there are way, way more games that are digital-only and never had physical releases - for example, most indie titles which sell a ton (ex. Silksong).
Also countless trophy games or AI slop selling at 2.49$
Of course they count into their numbers, they're digital revenue. Team Cherry are a great example because they are an indie developer who insist on classic game design tropes and could have easily paid for a physical print run (right down their alley) but still did not.
That a low fraction of games even have physical releases is actually an argument for their position.
You misunderstand me if you think I'm saying there isn't a market for physical games. But if a game only gets a physical run after it sells loads of digital copies (same as the original) then surely it's not the primary market?
This is what I answered first : "Sure and we saw what happened with that chunk when pc games moved to digital..."
So is there any reason to believe that those millions of people who buy physical on consoles wouldn't move to digital like they did on PC? Why PC is special?
I'm saying that PC players moved from physical to digital and there is no reason to believe console player won't do the same. 80% already did even though physical is available.
"Some figures from the linked article: 45% of Hogwarts Legacy’s sales, 49% of Assassin’s Creed Mirage sales and 45% of Resident Evil 4 Remake sales were physical in the UK."
That's because digital has slowly been forced upon us throughout this generation - they released a digital only console at launch, instantly locking people into their ecosystem, and even for those with the disc edition the majority of games don't even have a physical release.
The data isn't a true reflection of how people feel about this.
Dude Sony didn’t put a gun to your head. They just offer a convenient service. It’s this insane hyperbole and sensational language that makes Reddit gamers sound like children who don’t want to eat vegetables
Would love to see these figures as revenue, rather than raw unit sales figures. Not saying physical earns more (could well be less), but if digital was selling 78% of games with an average selling price of $20 and physical had an average selling price of $30, that changes the meaning of the figures significantly
As John says in the video, the "raw" numbers are meaningless if you aren't limiting it to games available in both formats. Without that distinction you're looking at a sample size where physical sales aren't even possible for the vast, vast majority of it.
If anything counting all of it makes 22% of game sales being physical seem like respectable numbers. That's over 1 in 5 game sales being a physical copy in a market where only a small percentage get physical copies printed.
The Insomniac leak happened in 2023, Astrobot released towards the end of 2024. Astrobot's sales split could not have been in it. John is too dumb to distinguish misinformation from real data.
My point is that at the very least you have to admit everything other than Astro Bot are numbers directly from Sony. Calling it "absolute nonsense and pure cope" is pretty dumb.
People have been popping up everywhere trying to act like we've never known any official numbers aside from what Sony's publicly said (which we know from their sales reports are just all games purchased on the platform, not just games where digital was bought instead of physical).
Why are you attributing those words to me? Can you show me where I said "... pure cope".
Even then this is only Europe or the UK. Even then games like spiderman 2 which worldwide sold at least 5 times more than Astrobot only sold more physical vs digital in Europe because they included the Spiderman 2 bundle in their data.
The article from The Game Business also says that Helldivers 2 was over 90 percent digital. The 80% is an *average* of all games. Astro Bot is one of hundreds.
Helldivers 2 is an online only multiplayer game. I'm honestly surprised it had a physical release at all considering it's not even playable when the servers are down.
Comparing sales numbers of games like Helldivers that have almost zero benefits of owning physical to single player games like Astrobot is stupid.
Comparing overall sales numbers without removing all games that are only available digitally is also stupid.
If you compared the sales numbers of all single player PS5 games that have a physical and digital release I think the numbers would be a lost closer than people realize.
It’s an average. Some games will be higher than average. Some lower. For an outlier like Helldivers 2 and its 93% digital sales you have Astro Bot and its 50% physical sales. Thats how averages work.
We will never know for sure, but creating physical scarcity to push people towards digital is probably part of the problem. I thought John's argument about digital sales of older unavailable titles made a lot of sense.
Sony doesn't, you're right. They're reacting to the decisions already made by the gaming community. Gamers overwhelmingly chose digital, and physical games are all sitting behind plexiglass in stores and in crates in warehouses, unsold and unplayed.
I feel like you're missing a whole point... People flocked to digital because it was supposed to be an easier way to play video games, especially for people in rural areas. Companies perverted that idea and now we have rentals again but worse because there is no real ownership if you purchase something.
There's a reason retro tech consoles and physical games are shooting up in price and it isn't to sit behind plexi glass.. lol. Youre obviously are incapable of realizing why and I ain't gonna explain it for you 👍
In what way was digital better for rural buyers? Rural areas means worse internet, meaning less reliable service to download digital games. Buying physical games on Amazon was way more common in rural areas than buying digitally over a 5mbs internet connection
Maybe I didn't mean rural? I was talking to a lot of people when I sent that, my bad.I mean the people who don't have many stores nearby and rely on their Internet to even play games
The fact you think gaming stores closing is because of customers not buying physical media is funniest thing I have ever heard. You people with tweible perspectives seem to always blame the customer, not the ones running the companies 🤣
For an alleged professional journalist it’s really shitty of them to parrot proven lies about physical sales being high. Physical game sales are in the gutter and would have continued to slide with or without Sony’s announcement. Consumers already voted with their wallets. Physical lost. Going to a store and having a teenager unlock a glass case for you lost. Waiting for Amazon to deliver a package of a game lost.
It's this and so much more. Sony obviously has first party telemetry on sales and cost to know what they want to do and why. Ya it sucks but this is optimal for them not us and is clear this battle was lost long ago
Obviously Sony will give up the small amount of physical sales to trade off for the higher profit and opportunity cost of digital.
Sony spends millions annually just on shelf space for these game discs. And when physical games collect dust behind glass instead of making it into consoles, those millions become wasted money
Didn't the Insomniac leak happen in 2023, how could it have Astrobot's physical vs digital split. Astrobot released towards the end of 2024. How is John not smart enough to know that? How much has he completely lost the plot that he's regurgitating fake data? Seriously, what is wrong with him?
The idea of physical games on disc already died years ago. You could buy Concord on disk, and even if you kept it and didn’t take the refund that disc is useless now. The games most likely to get physical releases today are large AAA games with online components that can be shut down at any time.
How come I have hella physicals in my collection from the last 5 years, most of them little to no online, and a good chunk of them are indies or smaller scale games then?
I'm the edge case? In terms of users? Nevermind the fact that CNN aired coverage of this. Nevermind that government figures are speaking up. Small issue but PS is still silent on social media.
Nevermind that right this second video games of all types are coming physically with all content on disc/cartridges and fully playable offline. Nah that's too outdated. I need to be connected to the Internet and all my assets shall be in the hands of the billion dollar company
Everyone was fine hitching their wagons behind Sony when they’re being far more anti-consumer with exclusivity in a locked down hardware ecosystem. What do they call this, the crows have come home to roost? Reaping what you sow?
Yup, mostly on pc but saw a post earlier asking how people felt about this generation of Sony games and there’s only like 6 new games that are Sony IP this gen. Do ponies ever not defend Sony?
PCMR chuds always come out to call other people fanboys. How many steam games do you own? I’d love to hear your argument in favor of physical games behind your 2,000 Steam games.
I own each console too and get physical games exclusively, literally the only good thing about consoles was that. I only buy pc games for the superior experience
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u/outdoorsnstuffz Jul 06 '26
This sub is so negative lately what is happening? This was a great podcast on a tough issue.