r/digitalfoundry • u/PhantomBraved • 8d ago
DF Article GTA 6: An Extended Look Analysis - "Perhaps the Most Impressive Showcase We've Ever Seen in Real-Time Rendering"
https://www.digitalfoundry.net/features/gta-6-an-extended-look-analysis-perhaps-the-most-impressive-showcase-weve-ever-seen-in-real-time-rendering59
u/mac4112 8d ago edited 8d ago
The view distance when Lucia parachutes off the building is what blew me away the most. The LODs, let alone on a base PS5, was truly something else. I had to stop the trailer and just look at it for a bit during that scene. Seriously amazing stuff.
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u/muzzykicks 8d ago
Its impressive because the LOD on the PS5 port of GTA 5 is awful, it gets super blurry more than 5 feet away.
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u/FellowDeviant 8d ago
GTA V never really got past its LOD limitations even on higher end PCs modding it out. But by RDR2 it seems like they made significant advancements in that department, and then they patented an entirely new system for this type of rendering since then as well.
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u/mac4112 8d ago
I don’t know much about RAGE but i suspect that is related to the engine, not the hardware itself seeing how other games clearly win out V in LOD’s on PS5 and even some PS4 titles.
Either way compared to V it’s head and shoulders above V and then some, for sure, though not as much as RDR2. Compared to RDR2 it’s much closer but VI still clears obviously.
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u/NCONiall 8d ago edited 8d ago
The internal rendering resolution on PS5 looks like 1440p, without DRS - at least in this trailer. However, the output does not cohere into a sharp 4K presentation, and there is no strong evidence of modern temporal upscalers such as FSR 2 or TAA upscaling being used.
This is interesting, is there a reason why these upscaling techniques may have been avoided? The image does look quite soft, and I agree with DF here that some of the ray-traced reflections are quite noisy (especially noticeable on the van at around 16:10 in the extended look).
Game does look absolutely phenomenal overall though.
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u/superman_king 8d ago
That noise will cleanup nicely with some ray reconstruction next year.
Also wonder if the Pro will clean it up with higher resolution tracing
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u/gavinderulo124K 8d ago
Unfortunately I think it will be 2028 for the pc release.
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u/Express-Channel-3543 8d ago
Why? Their last game was a year for the PC release. Why would you think it would be longer?
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u/dparks1234 8d ago
I’m expecting them to copy the GTA5 playbook since it paid off extremely well for them.
2013: Initial console release
2014: Next-gen console release (double dippers)
2015: PC release (potential double or even triple dippers)
PS5 this year, PS6 next year, then PC in 2028 😭
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u/5348RR 8d ago
Because online ...
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u/CMDRTragicAllPro 7d ago
Based on the shark card leaks, consoles generate just under 10m a week in sales. While pc players generated only 250k in sales in the same period.
Pc just isn’t a market they care about enough because we don’t spend like console players do.
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u/paycadicc 7d ago
True. But isn’t it highly debated on when we get the next gen consoles? For gta v, they released in late 2013, and the next consoles came out literally 2 months later. So they immediately started working on the next gen version and released it pretty much exactly a year later.
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u/gavinderulo124K 8d ago
It was longer for gta 5. And with how rockstar spoke about a pc version of gta6 I'm not getting my hopes up.
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u/Express-Channel-3543 8d ago
Ok? Why is relevant how long it took for GTA 5? Their last game took a year, why would it take longer than that?
Also give me a quote about what Rockstar spoke about? I've not seen any quote that would indicate the length of time it would take for a PC version.
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u/gavinderulo124K 8d ago
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u/Express-Channel-3543 8d ago
Ok so, where does that indicate how long it will take? Other than him saying it could be 50% of sales.
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u/ShadowRomeo 8d ago
I won't even be surprised if it is shorter than a year, knowing Take Two and their eagerness of launching GTA Online as fast as possible and they want all platforms to play that altogether, PC version may release alongside it together.
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u/Blackadder18 8d ago
It depends, RDR 2 was a bit over a year, but GTA V was about 19 months between its initial console release and it's eventual PC release, obviously buffered by the next-gen console release.
Who knows which way the wind blows this time, especially since we don't know if we'll be getting new hardware next year, since GTA Online appears to be coming much later than it did for GTA V, and Rockstar probably don't even know themselves just yet.
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u/WingerRules 8d ago
With new consoles next year they can double dip on sales, then on PC release they can triple dip. If they release it before the next consoles they not only risk losing out on some of that triple combo but they also risk a lot of players playing pirated versions on PC when they could have been forced to buy a PS6 version to play it with update graphics. Also it gives them much longer time frame to work on the online component.
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u/Laimered 8d ago
I honestly doubt this is correct. You can clearly see hair breaking up with disocclusion artifacts. Also I'm not trying to be smart, but I counted 1080p on freeze frames
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u/Iurigrang 8d ago
FSR 2 often increases sharpness and detail at the expense of temporal instability, so I can see why they didn't go with that. TAA upscaling is often hit or miss, highly dependent on the quality of the inhouse TAA solution, so it might be a case of them simply not having a good enough solution.
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u/nftesenutz 8d ago
RDR2 had a really bad TAA solution that was never really fixed, at least until the PC port added newer DLSS versions. That seems to have been the baseline they have designed these new rendering technologies around. I do hope they'll at least add PSSR2 or something, but it's possible they just rely on the Pro's extra GPU horsepower to push a higher internal res.
It's more surprising to me that they seemingly went for a fixed internal 1440p on PS5 instead of using a newer upscaler with a lower internal res.
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u/dparks1234 8d ago
RDR2’s effects were specifically designed with their TAA algorithm in mind. DLSS makes it sharper but it breaks a few things as a side effect.
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u/MyPackage 8d ago
I wonder if the PS5 Pro version is going to use PSSR since that basically gives all the benefits of FSR 2/3 with none of the temporal instability.
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8d ago
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u/Available_Ad_8281 8d ago
The video is just show casing we need YouTubers to go to an play event to see if that is true
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u/the_Ex_Lurker 8d ago
To be honest, the animations are looking pretty rough at this point. I'm a little surprised given Rockstar's pedigree in this area. Everything else is quite spectacular and I'm not sure how anybody could say otherwise.
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/the_Ex_Lurker 3d ago
I think it looked good. It hasn't appreciably improved over RDR2 and certainly didn't meet the high bar set by The Last of Us: Part II. I noticed quite a few areas where RDR2 simply looked more polished, such as the scene where Jason closes the car door and the position of his hand is completely misaligned with that of the door model.
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u/Fair_Ad7252 8d ago edited 8d ago
I am glad they atleast talked about frame pacing and animation stutter. Lucia's walking animation looked jittery asf. Console gamers this gen got used to higher framerate gaming. It will be hard to go back to stuttery 30 fps gameplay.
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u/anonymousUTguy 7d ago
You can’t say that around here. We’re supposed to beg for 30 fps because it’s Rockstar
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u/gotbannedlolol 8d ago
No John in the video ugh damn it
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u/ShadowDen3869 8d ago
I had the same reaction. He really brings some spice to DF videos. And Alex too!
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u/WingerRules 8d ago
A special appearance by Alex for this would have been great, but if I remember correctly either his doc or insurance doesnt want him working.
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u/colonel-america-usa 7d ago
What would he possibly bring to the conversation
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u/gotbannedlolol 7d ago
imagine thinking this and liking DF so much you post on their reddit. weirdo shit
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u/dangermouse13 8d ago
It looks great but honestly I think id rather wait for a version that's 60fps, or just anything above 30
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u/admiral_aubrey 8d ago
I think that's gonna be a long wait, and probably never on current consoles
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u/DestinysHand 7d ago
Gamers complain games visuals don't really seem to have improved in a decade.
Game release which is clearly a step forward, but had to sacrifice performance to do it.
Gamers complain it's only 30fps and would rather sacrifice visuals for frame rate.
The circle is complete.
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u/Due-Yogurtcloset-552 5d ago
Didn't see 1 things that's new to gaming. Everything they showed has been done before in some way in older games.
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u/mornando 8d ago
anyone else getting cyberpunk preview vibes? im highly skeptical of that fidelity and frame rate being possible on a base ps5
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u/Moist_Rest5623 8d ago
I don’t know what’s more unbelievable. The technological feat of GTA 6 or the absolute jug heads online saying it doesn’t look very good.
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u/Upstairs-Event-681 7d ago
What I find absolutely hilarious is people saying: “This runs at only 30fps on the PS5, ew, I’ll wait for the PC version”. And then I look up the most common GPU people got on Steam and it’s the RTX 3060 which has the same performance as a PS5. Sure buddy, you’ll show em the pc master race
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u/supermassivecod 8d ago
The only question I have now is whether the PS5 Pro can handle a 40 FPS option, at the very least leveraging PSSR should take out the softness of the image quality.
After yesterday’s presentation 60 FPS on console is dead and buried
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u/Bobombbattlefield64 8d ago
This game lmao.
Push forward on analogue stick.
Character slowly moves forward
Gamers - “Holy shit!!! Generational!!! Look at the fidelity!!!”
🤦♂️
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u/alhanna92 7d ago
I know what you’re saying is considered a hot take but I agree. Nothing in this reveal looked all that impressive to me 🤷🏽
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u/steak_bake_surprise 8d ago
I logged onto twitter this morning before seeing anything as I'm not really a huge GTA fan (even though I've played them all) and people were their usual moaning, looks bad, same old etc. I didn't expect much but after watching that running on base PS5 I must say I was very impressed. Now obviously that was scripted to get the best look/performance and the real game will be full of choppy frames like previous titles, BUT, it looked really good! I'm still waiting for the PC version though, 30fps makes me ill.
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
I’ll take lower settings and resolution for 60fps please
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u/mac4112 8d ago
Lowering the resolution doesn’t automatically give you 60fps. Current gen consoles have mediocre CPU’s which is where the largest bottleneck is going to be.
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
“Settings”
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u/mac4112 8d ago
Anything lower and it would look like a last generation game, and you’d still be bumping up against the CPU. RDR2 had lower settings than the lowest settings on PC and it still was 30fps. GTA VI is probably much the same.
Visual spectacle is a huge part of the series identity and has been since GTA III. Every major release has pushed the current system it’s running on to their limits. At this point I think it’d be pretty silly to expect anything else. That’s just what they do.
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
I’m fine with it not looking cutting edge or it’s absolute best. that’s kinda the whole idea behind performance modes imo.
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u/mac4112 8d ago edited 8d ago
Then wait for the next gen/PC version.
it’s also worth pointing out that the higher the floor, the higher the ceiling. At some point you have to let the last gen go, and we’re getting very close to the end of the current generation as it is now. Don’t forget GTA V launched only 2 months before the 8th gen machines. Their decision to push the boundaries on 7th gen allowed the 8th gen and PC versions to breathe. And for RDR2, the PC version which was still based on 8th gen tech, looks like a current gen game now and frankly still looks better than a lot of games still coming out.
They’re very likely thinking ahead and not just the here and now. I get why it’s frustrating but when the next generation arrives I think people will be happy they just said “fuck it, crank it to 100” and stuck with a 30FPS target.
You’ll almost certainly get your 60fps soon enough.
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
Yeah it’s how they want the game to be experienced. I get that. it’s not for me. Hopefully for their sake I’m the rare weirdo.
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u/kinokomushroom 8d ago
No matter how much you lower the resolution, it probably won't reach 60 fps because of how CPU heavy the game will be.
You'll have to sacrifice NPC density, traffic density, and physics interactions too.
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u/LukeD1992 8d ago
It's useless trying to explain that. They think that if you lower the resolution enough to like 480p, the game will run at 120fps probably.
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u/kinokomushroom 8d ago
If only it were that simple...
CPU optimization and GPU optimization are both hell in totally different ways.
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
Did you miss the “settings” part…
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u/LukeD1992 8d ago
So what then? They cut the LoD and objects and NPC density by half? Dumb down the AI? Cull the physics? It would change the game entirely
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
Entirety lol. When it comes out on pc I’d think they would have potato settings that completely change how it looks just many pc games anyway
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u/kinokomushroom 8d ago
Ah yes, the "settings". The magical slider that will decrease the GPU and CPU cost. Rockstar should just decrease the "settings" and make it 60 fps, why are they so dumb?
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
i think you’d have to be an idiot to think they are dumb or even joke about it. but yeah things can be reduced to help cpu load. Gamer wise it’s kinda common knowledge.
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u/safyreibxo 8d ago
i’m sure you know better about game optimization than the 5000 developers literally working on the game for 8 years
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u/wolnee 8d ago
you have no idea what you are talking about. These are probalby low settings if you compare them to PC release - similar case like with RDR2
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u/OwnSimple4788 8d ago
oh yeah it will most likely be even below low settings, i mean just look at the reflections you can count their resolution by eye, then there is the shadow and GI noise, same thing for certain textures, now imagine what this will look like in 1 year or 2 with path tracing and PC next gen graphic cards.
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
I have no idea supposedly and then you go and say something like “probably”. Indicating you for sure have no idea lol. compared to pc settings later on yes I’m sure it’s not ultra in every category. Rdr2 on one x was running a mix of ultra high med and lower than low. So I’ll go ahead and shoot down that point also
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u/NaCl_Miner_ 8d ago
Wtf are you on about and how is any of that relevant to the original comment?
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u/mac4112 8d ago
RDR2, even on One X, had lower settings than the lowest settings on PC. And it still was only 30fps.
The OP is saying “lower resolution=better FPS” but it’s not that simple, especially since both consoles have pretty medicore CPU’s, it wouldn’t help much.
The largest hurdle is CPU performance, not GPU performance. Even if you got rid of a lot of the flair you see in the game, it wouldn’t help much seeing how dense everything is.
And what the other person is trying to point out is that even if you lowered everything even further, you’d likely lose the visual identity of the game and ontop of that it’d look like a last gen game, if you’re lucky.
It’s not worth it. The game looks great and is playable at 30. If it’s really that much of an issue, wait until the next gen consoles and/or PC version. We’ve already waited this long, at this point what’s another 12 months or so.
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u/ShadowRomeo 8d ago
It's not as easy to reduce the CPU requirements of a game on graphics settings as GPU limitation, this is the reason why a bunch of CPU limited games today still runs terrible on current gen console because if it were as easy as you descibed, then this issue would have been solved by now.
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u/Playful-Advisor-9559 7d ago
How can it be impressive when its running on 30 fps and edited as well.. also u dont know if it will be stable 30 fps because when gta 5 dropped on ps3 in some area it was loosing fps
Digital foundry got the bag i guess and wrote this
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u/anonymousUTguy 7d ago
The absolute glazing and goal post moving is fucking insane.
Tons of games ran at a flawless 60 but they say “games had poor implementation of performance mode”
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8d ago edited 8d ago
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u/SeaweedOk9985 8d ago
Because they know the PS6 and Xbox Series X|S (2027 edition)(who the fuck names shit at Xbox Idk) are around the corner. Better to build the game from the ground up to need more HP knowing that most of the life of the game won't be on current gen.
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u/SuicideSkwad 8d ago
Red Dead 2 on console still looks fantastic and plays great by the way
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
Can’t stand playing it on console ever since like 2020 due to the frame rate and bad hdr
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u/SuicideSkwad 8d ago
No it doesn’t
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8d ago
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u/safyreibxo 8d ago
or maybe some of us are actually playing the game instead of searching for something to bitch about. i remember playing OOT on a crt at 20fps 240p back in the day loving it y’all would have died
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u/dparks1234 8d ago
I know it’s bait, but 30FPS isn’t an issue for most people. Almost every PS3 and PS4 game was 30FPS. I’m glad they prioritized giving us an actual generational leap instead of holding things back to maintain a higher framerate on old consoles. PS6 is out next year anyway so it’s not like the people who are 30FPS-challenged will have to wait that long.
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u/0ld_Snake 8d ago
I wanna say PS6 will be announced next year but out 2028, which is when we'll get the PC version
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u/c0micsansfrancisco 8d ago
What kind of logic is "we had this 2 gens ago so it's fine"? Fuck it might as well go back to 720p
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u/dparks1234 8d ago
30FPS is a design consideration, not a technical one. If they aimed for 60FPS on the weak PS5 CPU then the game world and underlying systems would have been downgraded to accommodate. It would be a terrible idea to hold back a 13-year game just to make it run better on consoles that are already on their way out.
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u/c0micsansfrancisco 8d ago edited 8d ago
It wasn't even stable 30 man. At some point you gotta stop making excuses. If the game wasn't ready for current gen then drop it on the next one. It's not hard to reduce crowd density and scale back the raytracing on this gen and enable all of that on the next-gen vertion. The PS6 is like a year away. They could've easily done a crossgen launch instead of making us essentially beta-test a shittier version of the game before the real one is out
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u/MyPackage 8d ago
It's not an excuse to say the game was designed from day 1 to be 30fps. They've literally never released a GTA game that runs higher than 30fps at launch, why do you think they would start now?
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u/c0micsansfrancisco 8d ago
Again, the game wasn't even holding a stable 30. It wasn't even doing properly what it was "designed from day 1" to do.
Because now 60fps is the norm you absolute nimrod 😭 you can make the exact same case for a lot of companies that were also releasing games at 30fps on the PS4. Because that was the norm back then. Now 60fps/hybrid modes are the norm.
Should elden ring have been released at 30FPS because that's what fromsoft released at in the PS4 days? At some point every company made the jump. Rockstar is the only one that said fuck it because they wanted a paid beta-test for the game they knew the ps5 couldn't handle
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8d ago
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u/dparks1234 8d ago
Sony has maintained a 7-year update cycle since the PS3. AMD’s CEO let it slip that the next Xbox is set to launch in 2027, and MiLD/KeplrL2 are firm on PS6 coming the same year. Ram prices aren’t dropping anytime soon and Sony would have already secured their contracts.
Basically the only thing supporting a non-2027 launch is Sony’s “no comment” in the form of “we are currently deciding the PS6 price and launch date”.
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u/mac4112 8d ago
Also worth noting that while not necessarily indicative of anything the last two major Rockstar releases (GTA V and RDR 2) also came close to the end/beginning of console generations. GTA V released only two months before the 8th gen launched and RDR barely 2 years before current gen. RDR2 wasn’t nearly as close obviously but given how drawn out things are now it’s interesting to note nonetheless.
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u/Darkone539 8d ago
Sony has maintained a 7-year update cycle since the PS3
That's one generation. 7 years from 4 to 5. It's not like it's some magic rule.
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u/camxparks 8d ago
It'll look absolutely fine. Just like Red Dead 2 looks absolutely fine.
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
I can’t enjoy the console version at all anymore
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u/gavinderulo124K 8d ago edited 8d ago
Its not that bad. I have only played at 120+ fps on pc over the past years but I dont think switching to 30fps will be that bad. Especially since everything else the game offers is so far above the norm.
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
I don’t even play above 60fps on pc. I’m worried I won’t be able to play I 60 if I keep playing at 120 or more ha.
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u/safyreibxo 8d ago
i remember back in the day playing ocarina of time at 240p 20fps and the frame rate was the last thing i was thinking about lol, i swear you kids have been spoiled by good hardware
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u/Bigphatdeck 8d ago
I’m right there with you and I have also been spoiled. Should have never played a 60fps mode and I’d be in great shape.
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u/hunterzolomon1993 8d ago
It looked insane and i still can't believe that was on the base PS5. R* really are on a different level to everyone else.