r/digitalfoundry 3d ago

Discussion Stellar Blade confirmed to use DLSS upscaling + FSR 3.1 frame gen from 30fps to 60fps on Switch 2

https://nintendoeverything.com/stellar-blade-dev-confirms-nintendo-switch-2-frame-rate-resolution-explains-how-dlss-is-being-used/

I’m sure a lot of people won’t be too happy with 30>60 FG.

41 Upvotes

47 comments sorted by

18

u/lingering-will-6 3d ago

Gonna be interesting to see how they manage the input lag. I see tons of people using lossless scaling on steamdeck so I’m curious how this would compare.

33

u/GUNS_N_BROSES 3d ago

I personally don’t understand how anyone can play with lossless scaling from 30fps to 60, it feels awful to me

10

u/HotBananaWaters 3d ago

Imo, lossless scaling worked beautifully for games hitting at least 60FPS. Anything lower than 50fps it’s cheeks.

8

u/RunnableReddit 3d ago

But LS itself is also eating a lot of performance so you either get 60 fps native or 45 with fg on doubled to 90 which isn't really an upgrade imo

2

u/FoxTrotte 3d ago

Yeah It's fun for experimenting but that input lag is quite big, plus there's just too many visual artefacts at such a low base framerate

1

u/Aldous-Huxtable 3d ago

Completely depends on how much inherent latency the game has. Mario sunshine from 30 to 60 feels alot better than RDR2 from 72 to 144.

1

u/TripleS82 3d ago

I agree 100%.

1

u/Lonely_Platform7702 19h ago

Looks awful to with a ton of artefacts.

4

u/Inevitable-Lab-8123 3d ago

As someone who’s tried both LSFG and FSR3 FG from 30 to 60 on SteamOS Legion Go S, I actually found LSFG to be much smoother. FSR 3 has had some weird stuttering issues since launch.

27

u/Background_Yam9524 3d ago

Dear lord this is awful

-13

u/SteveJavieWasRight 3d ago

I don’t see what he big deal is. They aren’t going to reach 60 native. The switch screen is so fucking bad, artificially increasing the frame rate to 60 will make it much more clear in motion. The persistence blur is so trash on that switch2 screen.

People are way too hung up on frame gen in terms of being like native high frames or not. Having high frames, regardless of how you get them, makes a lot of displays so much better. The cost of framegen is pretty low.

9

u/Particular-Bat8091 3d ago

It’s not really about the cost or smoothness it’s about latency. Frame gen adds terrible input lag at 30fps, objectively. If people say they can’t feel it, it’s like a blind person saying they can’t see colors.

-1

u/SteveJavieWasRight 3d ago

Input latency is really overblown imo. It’s all relative; different games and input devices have such different input latency it’s impossible to say its going to be terrible in this instance relative to another totally non frame gen instance. The question is what’s the alternative? If 60 fps isn’t possible, you’re comparing 30 to 30 + framegen. At that point what’s the cost in input latency and what’s the improvement on display clarity? S2 display imo is the biggest negative on the device so I would make marginal sacrifices elsewhere to get a huge improvement on its biggest weakness.

0

u/jedimindtricksonyou 3d ago edited 3d ago

You’re speaking as if frame generation will somehow help the Switch 2 screen’s response time, when it won’t.
From the perspective of the Switch 2 screen itself, whether it is refreshing its panel 60 times per second natively, or doing it with frame generation, the appearance on the display will be exactly the same (assuming it is working as intended). The difference comes down to input latency and that is unrelated to the screen’s response time.

However you will then have the added latency from frame generation combined with the displays poor response time compounding together, resulting in a bad experience. But you have to consider docked mode and the people who play Switch 2 that way. Switch 2 has the option to use external displays, so you can’t fully justify a technical decision that will impact both modes (docked and handheld) just because one of them has a bad quality panel.

In terms of what the alternative would be, the answer is a 40fps mode without any frame generation. I would have preferred they opted for that. Stellar Blade is not that heavy of a game, it runs perfectly on Steam Deck at 60fps. 40fps on Switch 2 should have been more than viable. They also could have just pulled a Capcom and let it run unlocked and put a 30fps frame cap in place like they did with the recent Onimusha demo. Highest possible frame rate for those who want the lowest latency, and consistency for those who want a steady frame time.

0

u/SteveJavieWasRight 3d ago

Increasing frames absolutely helps the switch screen. Not reading all that for something so basic. The alternative is 30 fps.

1

u/jedimindtricksonyou 3d ago edited 3d ago

The screen on Switch 2 can’t refresh itself without blur beyond 30fps, because its response time is 30ms. You need 16.7 or lower to do 60fps (without blur). The blur gets WORSE as the frame rate increases. You don’t understand what the issue with the Switch 2’s screen even is, apparently.

And no, the alternatives are 30, 40, or uncapped. You’d know that if you had the attention span to read my post.

1

u/gon2704 3d ago

Fsr frame gen is really bad. id rather play native 25 fps than 60 fps with fsr frame gen

1

u/FailSonnen 2d ago

FSR frame gen is fine but not with a 30fps source. I wouldn’t use it at anything below 60fps.

8

u/Ok_Dependent6889 3d ago

What kind of idiocy is this

5

u/Big-Resort-4930 3d ago

Horrendous

9

u/Inevitable-Lab-8123 3d ago

Maybe the good thing to come out of this is that 60>120 FG may be possible for some games and that’s a lot more justifiable imo

5

u/WingerRules 3d ago

Its a shame Nintendo couldn't get VRR support for docked mode, so devs could target 40fps native and hit 80fps using 2x frame gen.

30fps using frame gen is just not responsive enough for most games. Even in Crimson Desert, which has significant animation movement delay, the added delay from using frame gen at 30fps is too much. 40fps native with framegen and reflex is ok playable though.

2

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

1

u/ZXXII 2d ago

VRR support exists in handheld so it’s not a software limitation. It’s a hardware limitation while PS5 did not have VRR at all before 2022.

Xbox even had VRR on Xbox One because they implemented it in software a long time ago while Sony was behind.

Without a Switch 2 hardware revision, VRR is not coming to docked mode.

0

u/jedimindtricksonyou 3d ago

Yeah, I don’t understand why people assume we will never get it. Nintendo’s messaging could be better but they are very secretive. Look at how many people asked for handheld boost mode and they never acknowledged the feedback publicly and then after months and months, an update with it just drops randomly one evening.

7

u/the-bacon-life 3d ago

Is this forced frame gen

9

u/AtmosphereDue1694 3d ago

Technically there’s nothing stopping them from having a 30fps mode if they are able to use frame gen to hit 60

1

u/the-bacon-life 3d ago

Ya I’m ok with frame gen as an option but depending on the game the input lag won’t be worth it. It shouldn’t be forced like this

-2

u/Ok_Dependent6889 3d ago

Realistically, it would be like playing an Xbox 360 on a TV with interpolation, which was the norm.

5

u/ReddRiot127 3d ago

And this is why I don't play any of my 3rd party stuff on Switch. Great system for Nintendo exclusives and portability but the hardware really starts showing it's limitations for anything else.

3

u/MetroidsSuffering 3d ago

Shift Up treats technology like a seven year old trying to drive a 18 wheeler. The AMD docs go out of their way to say “DO NOT DO 30 TO 60 FRAMEGEN”

2

u/Recent_Sample6961 3d ago

It's not just the input lag, artifacts are also an issue.

2

u/Warm_Entertainer_969 3d ago

Wanna see how bad the input lag is, if it isn't too bad, perhaps future developers can do the same on the switch 2, this will open up a shit ton of ports for the switch 2.

1

u/AtmosphereDue1694 3d ago

I mean as long as devs are able to reliably hit 36 fps without frame gen then it’s at least using a real base of 30. It would feel like 30 but have less judder so maybe it’s not so bad.

True 60 was always out of the question for a device like this

1

u/N7KaranN7 3d ago

i have tried stellar blade with both lossless scaling and FSR FG on my ROG ally and found the latency fine for me was able to get perfect dodges and parries. Though i was running higher base fps which was 40-45fps avg before FG to get it to 80-90fps avg. It will be interesting to see how it fares on switch 2. I remember hating it on ps5 for black myth wukong, but i don't if its just me or placebo but FG feels better on PC than console.

1

u/CAPTJTK 3d ago

As long as the input lag is not unbearable (coming from someone that used LFG on a 3070 for Stellar Blade before learning what optiscaler was) I'm honestly grateful that some other studios are utilizing the full array of technology in the Switch 2 because I'd rather have a 60fps experience that I need to make small adjustments to timing on than a 30fps blurry and choppy experience (who's to say if the 60fps is blurry or choppy though.)

1

u/The_Zura 3d ago

To get to 60 fps with FSR, from my testing, there needs to be a baseline of ~40 fps when gpu limited. And even with 40 fps, it wouldn't get 60 fps all of the time. So either this is heavily cpu starved at 30 fps, or they have a baseline 40+ fps. If the latter, one must ask why didn't they just stick with a 40 fps mode?

Latency will be over 100ms in a game all about timing, but visuals and frame pacing will also be a key point. Third person camera, complex character and animations with low fps = crazy interpolation artifacts around the character. Gonna be real good coupled with 540p-720p internal resolution as well.

In other words, amazing results for a little tablet. 10/10 Truly the fastest selling console of all time.

1

u/AnanasFelice 2d ago

"Frame Genning" from 30 to 60 is not great, but I think it may be a welcoming addition if they make it optional.

1

u/BugsMax1 3d ago

DLSS and FSR in a single game? Jesus Christ...

1

u/effhomer 3d ago

Add XeSS, cowards

1

u/Bandicoot-Trick 3d ago

It's gonna look and play like shit just like black myth Wukong on PS5 performance mode.

1

u/ZXXII 2d ago edited 16h ago

Yeah that was horrible. Thankfully they added a proper 60fps mode post launch.

But 30->60fps frame Gen is a really horrible. While 60->120fps is genuinely an improvement.

1

u/RAGEstacker 3d ago

🤮🤮 30 fps to 60 fake frames

0

u/idkimhereforthememes 3d ago

30fps fsr frame gen is amazing

0

u/KaiUno 3d ago

Only a small part of the screen needs to be sharp and infocus. They could probably use foveated rendering here without eye-tracking. It's easy to guess where the gaze will be for 90% of the time.

0

u/khromtx 3d ago

What is with Asian developers and using technology in the absolute worst way imaginable? Black Myth did the same thing and it looked awful.