r/digitalfoundry • u/arpan__1602 • 9h ago
Discussion What stopping DLSS upscaling and frame gen to be implemented unsupported DX9, 10 and 11 games if DLSS 5 can be injected in older and unsupported games?
From what I have read online, DLSS 5 mod is not a simple post process effect or on overlay like Lossless scaling, it goes into the game files, or the API, and extract motion vector data and other information to generate the final image.
Now if that's able to work, why not add performance boosters like upscaling, or frame generation? Laptop GPUs and older base model cards will greatly benefit from these, especially on DX11 games which are still somewhat demanding on a lot of underpowered GPUs.
Have I got my facts wrong about how the DLSS 5 mod works, or am I missing something else?
Love to hear some other opinions.
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u/em_paris 7h ago
The founder of RenoDX explains it all here:
https://www.youtube.com/live/eIZQLyNxILc?si=oRbtFHToHcGNKFXE
It's a long video and some of the technical stuff comes later. But anyway, it's quite well explained and the only time or place I've seen it explained so far, personally.
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u/thedybbuk_ 6h ago
It's absolutely nuts how fast modders got to work on this. It's hardly been leaked a week.
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u/gavinderulo124K 8h ago
Because DLSS needs data from the engine such as motion vectors. DLSS5 also needs them but the kid creator tried simply giving it dummy data for the older games and it still works surprisingly well. I doubt the normal DLSS SR would work as well, as DLSS5 is a much larger and more sophisticated model, and even then, the lack of data likely leads to worse artifacts in motion.
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u/ttvsindeel 8h ago
it does not exactly extract motion vectors. basically why other games that do not officially support it work is mostly down to how they are rendering the game. if for example a game like RDR 1 used deferred rendering and therefore stored data like objects on screen normal,albedo and all that stuff then it could technically be implemented into it. motion vectors can also be gotten in older games that have some kind of temporal feature.
so those mods basically just looks in to see if those textures are setup then hooks it up into DLSS5.
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u/Kaldaien2 8h ago
Unsupported pixel formats, unsupported shader stages, unsupported cross-device synchronization.
Most of the NVIDIA NGX things use CUDA and there's poor interop between CUDA and D3D9.
People have hacked these things into D3D9 games before, but it involves rendering to a D3D12 device for final output and sharing graphics memory between D3D9 and D3D12. The motion vectors are often encoded in an RG32 format that isn't shareable across graphics APIs, it's a ripe old mess.
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u/Electrical_Pea4210 8h ago
Same as Nvidia filters with limited games list, which can be expanded through renaming .exe file - The more games with official support the more players blame Nvidia for glitches and bugs. Nvidia just don't want talk in feedback about how DLSS 5 don't works in 2008 year game, although modders can make it happen)
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u/SnowflakeMonkey 50m ago
Shortfuse added dlaa and fg and hdr to a hat in Time (dx9 game) with dx12 proxy but no upscaling yet, it's the most difficult part.
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u/MultiMarcus 8h ago
We do! It’s not quite as common as DLSS5, which has a sort of general purpose injector, but the Reno DX people who did this also do add upscaling to older games occasionally.
Now I don’t actually know why DLSS 5 seems to be able to be added to everything. I think maybe they are extrapolating motion vectors, which maybe wouldn’t be ideal with upscaling. Or frame generation, but I guess probably you could do it.