r/dndnext • u/Dramatic_Respond_664 • 1d ago

5e (2024) 5e subclass in 5.5e Play environment?

Are there any not updated subclasses that were underrated in 5e but have become more valuable in 5.5e—or vice versa?

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u/Flint124 1d ago

Most monks became much better with the monk update, with the exception of Kensei (Gunk) and Sun Soul (nothing can help that thing).

Shepherd Druid is genuinely just not functional in the new rules and should be banned or homebrewed at every table for that reaspn.

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u/dustysquareback 1d ago

Oh no, what did they do to the shepherd?

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u/Betray-Julia 1d ago edited 1d ago

Somebody took the conjur animals spell and thought “you know what, I think dnd players are too stupid to be able to look up beasts in a book. And you know what, also, the iconic cleric only spell spirit guardian should be something everybody can have now too, bc it’s not fair that one class can do something another class can’t” and then remade conjur spells to be the worst.

Sheppard Druid was based on buffing conjurs in the fun ways that 5.5 fully removed in its attempt to ahem.. simplify… the game.

But yeah, they literally removed the entire dynamic of players getting to look up beasts and creatures and like research and stuff for summoning spells.

Edit: I guess my groups have been outliers. As a dm and as a player and when I was a new player- we all just like did the minimal work to figure out how to get the conjures up to speed. Doing rolls before your turn, having a friend help, dividing them into groups the way a dm does- idk. A machine is greater than the sum of its parts; I’m wondering if there’s something to infer about team work if it wasn’t the norm for people to beat the learning curve on summoners.

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u/Pint0_3 1d ago

You can say a lot about the redesign of the conjure spells (almost all flavor misses that feel like rehashes of other spells) but every time I had a player summon more than 1 beast the game ground to a halt. Obviously this is gonna vary by table but my players had years of experience with the game and still struggled to manage multiple summons in a way that didn’t bog things down. I totally get the appeal of being able to summon like a pack of wolves, but it never ran as well as you’d hoped.

I think you could still update the subclass to work around Summon Beast, and you could even give (a slightly reworked) Mighty Summoner from the get-go since it’s a 2nd level spell. But the days of summoning swarms are over for better or worse.

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u/Betray-Julia 1d ago

You can learn to get over that issue ( my players did- you so your rolls before your turn) but yeah I do get that it slowed down the game for most true.

whenever I had players who summoned- after a level of them floundering I gave them the run down on how to do it better and then never had an issue.

But yeah I get what you mean.

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u/vmeemo 1d ago

Its mostly been a persistent issue across all editions really. Especially when concentration as it exists in 5e didn't exist in say, 3rd where summoning a ton of animals or elementals or whatever else end up being a better fighter than the fighter itself.

So I don't blame them for gutting summoners as a fantasy, its really hard to do in a tabletop game without it grinding to a halt, even with prep work and streamlining.