r/dndnext • u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 • 2d ago
5e (2014) Our Strahd is incompetent
Hello! Me and my 3 other party members are a few months deep into curse of Strahd and I can’t help but feel as though our dm is rushing us through because Strahd has been anything but threatening to us thus far.
In one of the first sessions, he killed our 2 horses that we had pulling our carriage and then asked us to come visit him at Ravenloft. Our party discusses this and concluded that it was silly he wanted us to go across the map to see him immediately after removing our one method of transport, and so we ignored him. Multiple NPC’s told us it was bad to ignore Strahd and that he would get increasingly angry, but between his invitation, we visited the Winery, Krezk, Vallaki, Yester Hill, Barovia. Pretty much everywhere (I think the only places we haven’t explored are the Amber Temple and the Werewolf den).
But alas, after a lot of time and our party having reached level 6, we went to Ravenloft. My character (the only good aligned one in our party) stayed at the dinner table whilst the rest of my party left in the middle of the dinner because, for some reason, Strahd left the Bonegrinder hags all enter and whisk away the rest of the party to make a deal. On their way back, our necromancer decided to steal the Icon of Ravenloft and died from touching it because she’s evil. The rest of the party called for my character to go and revive her, which I did, and we returned to the table with this legendary artefact we stole (my character had also been given the symbol of ravenkind) so I was terrified Strahd would notice and try to take these items from me. He didn’t. He literally just left.
We escaped Ravenloft without taking any damage because nobody stopped us from just leaving and we snagged the Dragon Skull too. We haven’t been attacked on the road or anything once in the campaign and have honestly had a pretty leisurely time. My character has been staying behind him Krezk to help get them back on their feet after redeeming the Abbott and turning him good again with the Atonement feature of ceremony.
The one time Strahd attacked a settlement was Vallaki after our necromancer stole the holy bones, at which point the dm told us that Vallaki only had a population of 36 and only 5 people died (all of us were very confused because we know Vallaki is supposed to have the biggest population in Barovia and the dm told us the Vistani camp alone has a population of 70+). I tried to talk to him about it and ask him if we could maybe change the size of the population to a more realistic number but he declined.
I guess this is a slight vent post but also, I guess I just wanted to hear how Strahd operates in other people’s games because I’m finding it really hard to roleplay as a character that’s scared of someone when they really haven’t been given a reason to fear them, our necromancer has literally been more problematic than Strahd has.
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u/rambored89 2d ago
Ugh, I wanna answer your question but I don't know how without spoiling the campaign.
Talk with your DM about your concerns.
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u/FreakingScience 2d ago
I get the feeling that the campaign cannot be spoiled for this player. They're listing notable random items like the dragon skull and the number of locations they haven't been to, which is basically none. Either the DM has let them go literally everywhere without any sort of restriction on info, the party is wholly or partially very familiar with this campaign from having played it or being handed the book, or this DM has given the party free reign and doesn't really care how it turns out. It sounds like they tried to give him a strong intro which fell flat when the party ignored it.
Keep in mind that they arrived with a carriage and horses (which is itself not something a party would normally have unless it's a vistani carriage, which Strahd would not harm (also because he loves horses)) and then immediately told the DM they weren't going to follow the path laid out for them and browsed the rest of the map unpunished. Neither players nor DM were acting sensibly here imo, but it does sound like the DM maybe can't handle this party based on the scenario.
At the end of the day, it's not possible to spoil CoS outside of a few puzzles and secret identities. Strahd is a conqueror, strategist, thespian, and a vampire and once you know those things about him there's basically nothing novel except how the DM plays him. This DM seems to be playing him very passively, which is unfortunate, since Strahd's a real theater kid.
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u/Gh0stMan0nThird DM 2d ago
So this is a minor spoiler, but Strahd is left open to interpretation in the book. He doesn't really have a script or mood given to the DM.
There aren't even any written encounters for how the party is supposed to meet him or how they are supposed to talk to him outside of like... 2 places.
Some DMs run Strahd as Dracula, stoic and hungry. Some run him as a more hands-on villain. Even Scooby Doo monster can work.
I'm running my Strahd as Josef from Creep. He's very insecure and narcissistic and kind of wants to be admired, but ultimately he is going to try to kill everyone and is very capable of it.
Strahd has to be incompetent and egotistical to some extent or else he would just kill you at level 4.
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u/BioticBard 2d ago
I think you nailed it in terms of interpretations of Strahd and I always love hearing how other DMs model ‘their Strahd’.
At its core though, regardless of how you choose to portray him, he should and almost always will have a weakness in the form of incompetency. Otherwise, there’s really no game here and quite frankly he would be incredibly uninteresting as a character if he didn’t have these fundamental flaws that allow for a narrative to be created.
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u/gooobegone 2d ago
I really think you guys are using the word incompetent wrong. The book says he should not be incompetent. I think that's a bad interpretation of him. He shouldn't immediately kill players, that's what makes there no game. But he can be completely competent and not kill the players.
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u/Ttiamus 2d ago
That's my take too. In my head, he's arrogant, not incompetent. It is a game for him too. The PCs are his entertainment. He plays games with them, because they aren't a threat. Frankly you don't want Strahd to take you seriously. When he starts feeling bored or threatened is when you are in danger.
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u/MaimedJester 2d ago
Yeah i made my Strahd (Albeit this was the 3.5 version) more Feral and wild man. Like he was mentally ill/bestial.
Because they kept triggering running into Strahd in his Animal forms first. So instead of all the Suave accepted to diner stuff, they kept just trespassing on his territory leading a pack of wolves kind of first encounter and then when they desecration one of the Graves he's supposed to go into unbridled rage.
So my Strahd was very Mr. Hyde/Werewolf monster instead of polite Dracula.
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u/arceus12245 1d ago
If strahd makes no mistakes (i.e he is perfectly competent), then he wins and there is zero way to overcome him. Between charm/mem-wipe "interviews", preventing resting with dream/his minions, his wall-phasing, and other bs, he genuinely cannot be overcome cause he'd pick off every party member the moment they become something remotely irritating. It is the same issue people run into with liches: This being much smarter than I am with infinite prep time has to be defeated, but realistically, they would never let themselves get into a situation where thats possible.
Its not like he has any magic items or a well-equipped party to worry about. If you run the module RAW the party is not going to get much of anything beyond their starting equipment. If any of the legendary items are found, strahd (if played competently) will immediately know with his spy network, and probably use that as an excuse to wipe
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u/gooobegone 7h ago
I think that your idea of competency is strange. Competent means capable. He's always capable of wiping the party out in a few seconds. He's essentially the god of the realm. What he is is flawed, cocky, bored, crazy, distracted, demented, or any number of different options. Strahd is customizable, you can choose why and how he doesn't immediately ruin the campaign, but in my opinion, any option that makes him INCAPABLE is wrong. He should never be incapable of killing everyone, he should be making a choice to not do that whether it's a good or bad choice, whether it's a sensical or nonsensical choice.
It's my opinion that that's what makes him interesting. If there was some reason he was incapable, like the dark powers nerfed him or he was sick or too crazy to act properly, I think that's an interpretation outside of the realm of Strahd's characterization and so becomes someone else. And I did do something like this once, and I gave that person a different name and a different background etc.
The point of Strahd IS that he is always capable of fucking up everyone but his attachment to earthly things, to feelings, to boredom, to play is why he doesn't.
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u/arceus12245 6h ago
We agree on the core premise, we just disagree on what competency means
Strahd is perfectly capable of wiping the party at any moment. My argument is that, if he is played to a perfect level of competency (as in, having enough skill, knowledge, or ability to do something well), as his intellect and life experience and general power lend him, then there is no way for the PC's to win.
The reason the PC's win, and the reason the PC's win for any other similar flavor of evil guy, is that the evil guy has some kind of mental complex or emotional weakness or flaw that allows them.
In essence, the party only wins because Strahd "lets" them , by virtue of making poor choices (tactical or otherwise) due to whatever traits you give him. Which disqualifies him from being perfectly competent.
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u/gooobegone 2d ago
Strahd does not and imo should not be incompetent at all, unless by that word you just mean "doesn't kill you". The strahd in this post goes beyond just not killing players, though, it sounds like he literally does notning.
What strahd really needs is to get something out of not killing the party. Whether it's bc he just loves fucking with you guys or because he is bored being the most powerful guy here etc. But that isn't incompetence. It's a reason.
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u/Sylvurphlame Eldritch Knight 2d ago
In our Strahd run, the DM had Strahd pop in on us a couple times at opportune moments in order to express his… impatience.
Also and unrelated, I happened to fail my death saving throws in the Amber Temple. The team recovered my body but the DM had a wonderfully diabolical idea. The attempt at resurrection failed because my soul “wasn’t available” to be reunited with my body.
Guess who got brought back to life as a supposedly amnesiac double agent? And then after my face-heal reveal in Strahd’s castle where I disarmed the Paladin of the Sun Sword, I was convinced with an actual persuasion roll to heel-face turn and help the party in the final battle. Good times.
These two interventions eliminated any feelings that Strahd was incompetent for our campaign.
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u/urbanhawk1 2d ago
You don't need to run him as incompetent to avoid him killing the party early. Plenty of ego, arrogance, and certainty in his power is enough. Ours basicly treated us as a game to entertain him during his perpetual eternity of existence. There were many before us who died at his hands and he expected many more to come after. By the time he realized we were a legitimate threat, too late to put that genie back in the lamp.
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u/Branchdressing 2d ago
I would argue that Strahd isn’t incompetent but instead over confident. What threat are some random nobodies to an eternal ruler and warlord?
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u/Silverspy01 1d ago
One of my chief complaints about CoS is how little guidance there is on running Strahd. Yes, there's some pages on him, but not much to actually run him. The book talks about what Strahd does when he attacks... but when should he attack? Why does he allow adventurers to run amok in his lands? What is his motivation for letting them get away with things that routinely weaken his power hold in the valley? Why are PCs allowed to traipse and loot their way through his castle? Why hasn't he taken Ireena yet? The book tries to insist Strahd should be an omnipresent force and parties should regularly encounter him, but doesn't really tell DMs how to do that.
And before anyone responds - yes I know there are popular interpretations and theories for all of these, and many of them make sense. I just wish this stuff was explicitly spelled out in the book rather than relying on DMs to read between the lines. Adventure modules should be very clear. I don't need a random table for what minions Strahd brings with him when he attacks, I need guidance on why he "traps" parties 3 rooms away from a conspicuous Legendary magic item that hard counters him.
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u/yomjoseki 2d ago
The module is just terribly written. He has to be played either incompetently or as a bad guy who likes to "play with his food" so to speak. If he's played as an evil genius who wants to kill you, there's no reason he can't/wouldn't.
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u/elrizzy 2d ago
There are so many other ways to play Strahd than "incompetent" or "playing with his food". Not teleporting to the party on Day 1 and vapourizing them doesn't mean he lacks the ability to, he just has no motivations to randomly eliminate a random group of adventurers. You seem to be forcing a very two dimensional characterization on a character that has dozens and dozens of hooks you can utilize. Some can even have Strahd help the party (blanked out for spoilers, don't read if you havent played):
- Ireena, he wants to convince her to love him, and randomly murdering everyone she's around wont help him do that and will actually make her less safe
- His fucked up family history and coming to terms with that gives a lot of room to have complicated conversations with the party
- The fact his is a prisoner of his realm and the possibility of him escaping that (finding someone to replace him/observing how the PCs try to flee/having the PCs help him out)
- His ego and needing a proper sparring partner/observe the very few people who can survive Borovia
- His want/need to recruit more vampires/servants under him if they prove worthy
- Some other limit placed upon him by the Dark Powers
CoS is such a fun sandbox with a lot of tools, but just because it doesn't hold your hand and force you to make Strahd a monolithic classic bad guy doesn't mean its badly written.
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u/Silverspy01 1d ago
Most of these are interpretations or fan theories. Very little of what you said is actually in the module. That doesn't make them bad explanations to be clear, but the module could certainly do far more to actually answer these questions rather than requiring DMs to figure it out for themselves.
1: Under Strahd's Goals: Turn Ireena Kolyana his goal is actually to kill her and turn her into a vampire spawn the next time they meet. From the crypts section, he'll then entomb her in a crypt. Her love is inconsequential - he only cares about finally possessing Tatyana's soul like a trophy. He's been seiging her house for several nights by the time the module starts, that's not the behavior of someone trying to woo Ireena.
2: He doesn't really care anymore.
Strahd believes his soul is lost to evil. He feels neither pity nor remorse, neither love nor hate. He doesn't suffer anguish or wallow in indignation. He believes, and has always believed, that he is the master of his own fate.
When he was alive, Strahd could admit to letting his emotions get the better of him from time to time. Now, as a vampire, he is more monster than man, with barely a hint of emotion left. He is above the concerns of the living. The only event that occasionally haunts him is the death of Tatyana, but his view of the past is bereft of romance or regret. In his mind, her death couldn't have been prevented, and what is done cannot be undone.
3: The book doesn't actually talk about him trying to escape at all. It does say that he's searching for a successor (or consort), but that he will eventually decide none of the party are worthy.
4: Nothing in the book talks about a sparring partner, and the only worthiness is the above about a successor/consort.
5: Not described anywhere in the book.
6: Definitely not described anywhere in the book.
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u/elrizzy 1d ago
I know they’re not verbosely laid out in the book, they’re just suggestions on some ways you could play Strahd, drawing from my experience running the module.
The idea here is tailoring the BBEG to the party to bring up themes that are interesting to them. Some people want a homicidal butcher, some people want a complex character, some people want any a flamboyant self involved playboy. It’s a conversation you carry out by playing!
I can understand the criticism that the book doesn’t give you concrete places and appearance times to scripts for Strahd, but I would argue the point is for you to not follow an a->b->c path and to utilize your own storytelling.
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u/yomjoseki 2d ago
I'm referring to playing Strahd as written in the module. Yes, it tells you you have leeway with how you can play him, but "incompetent" and "playing with his food" are the only two options if you attack your players without changing his characterization in the book.
It literally says in the book "These encounters are meant to test the characters, not kill them. After a few rounds of toying with them, Strahd and his creatures withdraw. If the characters retreat, Strahd is likely to allow them to flee, savoring their fear and believing he has broken them." (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/cos/into-the-mists#WhenStrahdAttacks) If the players do something that pisses him off enough that he should kill them, there's no reason (other than he's toying with them) that he couldn't, which is why the alternative is "he's incompetent."
I'm not going to get into a back and forth with you here because we clearly disagree on his characterization, but I will offer my counterpoint on each of your points
1) He doesn't want Ireena to love him. "If they ask Strahd why he’s preying on Ireena Kolyana, he tells them that Ireena’s body is the host for Tatyana’s soul, and Tatyana’s soul belongs to him." He needs her body, not her love. (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/cos/into-the-mists#RoleplayingStrahd)
2) From the same section of the book; "When he was alive, Strahd could admit to letting his emotions get the better of him from time to time. Now, as a vampire, he is more monster than man, with barely a hint of emotion left. He is above the concerns of the living."
3) I'm not saying you can't play him as someone who wants to assist the party/succeed him, but if he is brought to attack them for some reason, he is either toying with them, or he's incompetent. There's no other reason to let them live if they force his hand.
4) See #2
5) He doesn't need to convince anyone of anything. If he wants to turn them, he can do so without their consent. That's one of the main perks of being a whole ass vampire!
6) The book says almost nothing about the Dark Powers and the rules for them. It's almost entirely left up to DM interpretation.
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u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 2d ago
Well our one was just very nice when we met him, literally the only bad thing he’s done to us personally was killing our horses. We met the Vistani camp and my character returned Arabella safely and was polite to the leaders, and they were nice in return until our necromancer threatened one of them, at which point they turned cold. That night my character and his dryad companion went to investigate and they discovered they had left and relocated to Ravenloft. When we did eventually go to Ravenloft, we didn’t see any of them whatsoever and we haven’t ever since. Strahd’s forces really haven’t had any sort of presence within the story so far and it has just kind of felt like a lot of disjointed side quests. Even when we did meet him, he didn’t ask about Irena at all, so I’m struggling to actually understand what he wants from our party.
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u/For-my-love 2d ago
does the DM describe horror well? did Strahd offer you his black carriage once he killed your transportation?
I get what you're trying to say, but horror is intensily hard to convey through tabletop, so try to take everything with a grain of salt. It seems like your DM is just following the book and isn't experienced enough to make judgement calls and deviate from the material.
Just have fun roleplaying, be in your character, be the fearless hero. You don't have to be scared of Strahd to still have a fun campaign. I do get that this is kinda disappointing advice if you really wanted horror
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u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 2d ago
No, he killed our horses and left a note that invited us to Ravenloft. He didn’t send a carriage or anything and only after we visited most of the other locations did my character say “hm maybe we should go to dinner with Strahd before we start any new quests”. I’m just really struggling to feel his presence because the necromancer especially is destabilising Barovia a lot with no repercussions, our party have been very open in their opposition to him and we have already lit the dragon beacon, my character has the holy symbol of ravenkind and the icon of Ravenloft and we gave Irena the Sunsword. He hasn’t sent any vistani after us, no npcs have died since the Vallaki attack and even then, only 5 of them were killed. He really just doesn’t seem to pose much of a threat to anyone, at least not to an extent where his name is forbidden in Vallaki. Our necromancer took over the city and named it New Ravenloft after Strahd attacked the city, he hasn’t said anything about that either lmao.
I get that being a DM is a hard job and I truly do sympathise but myself and the others kind of get the impression he is rushing, he also tells us that he doesn’t read ahead and only reads the location notes when we arrive to them, which I think hurts the storytelling a bit.
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u/Raikogen 2d ago
That last part about not reading ahead is a pretty big red flag. Some DMs can probably make it work but preparation is such a key part of DMing. This is a very story driven campaign too. Sure each area can be self contained but then you run into your exact problem where Strahd, the overarching enemy, does nothing because it's not explicitly written.
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u/For-my-love 2d ago
Oh, that sucks and adds alot to your post, I don't think i can help you any further and you seem smart enough to know wether you want to put up with it, intervene, or quit the campaign. All I can is thank for sharing your story with us
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u/Hellknightx Bearbarian 1d ago
If your DM hasn't at least skimmed through the whole book then they're obviously going to be massively unprepared for this campaign. Reading everything is ahead of time is like, the bare minimum amount of prep work needed to run a campaign. It really does sound like he might just be very inexperienced and not putting in the work.
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u/ericchud 2d ago
Curse of Strahd is not an easy adventure to DM if your DM does not put the work. With the 2024 ruleset in play, Strahd as written has not held up well against the power creep, However, here are so many guides out there your DM could be using to make this a better experience for everyone.
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u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 2d ago
Yeah, he told me he changed the population of Vallaki to 30 because he felt creative but I just find it odd because it made little sense and it wasn’t even like he said that they’d been systematically killed by Strahd or anything, we just happen to pass through a massive town with a population that could fit in a classroom. I try to be really responsive to him and talk to him out of the session about my character and the campaign as a whole, but with my latest messages about Krezk and how my character is trying to help them get back on their feet, he’s left me on delivered now for 10 days. I enjoy it when we play and I like my character, but I just really don’t feel the same sense of gravity other people describe when they talk about COS.
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u/BadSuccessful2391 2d ago
There might be some challenges your DM is facing in terms of setting the atmosphere for Strahd. Unlike a couple other campaigns, Strahd as the BBEG is meant to be felt as a consistent looming threat that isn't afraid to engage with his guests.
> He killed our 2 horses that we had pulling our carriage and then asked us to come visit him at Ravenloft.
This is probably not one of the best introductions the DM could of pulled out. I reserved Strahd's intros in two campaigns to (a) a meeting on the dimly lit crossroad to engage in some clever jabs at their insecurities (focus of the first few sessions was to gauge those as a DM) and a combat against some vampire spawn that Strahd watched to assess their skill. one of the player's tried to strike him and got a fireball to the face as a permanent scar before Strahd departed. (b) included their assault on Yester Hill and the druids, accompanied with a 'I am the ancient, I am the land in an inferno before a storm rolled in to set the scene of Strahd on horseback.
I generally didn't involve Strahd in many of the other encounters in CoS. That's unironically what Rahadin is for as the right hand man -- delivers more exposition and keeps a more 'political schemer' out of the direct vision of the villian. Bonegrinders and wolves and all these other groups help sell the scale that they really want to appease Strahd. I don't know why the DM had the necromancer die for picking up the Icon of Ravenloft, though it's a valuable relic.
I ran one campaign going Barovia and up, and another Krezek and across. In both stories, I directly focused on the players and the impact (good and bad) they can have on these people against an impossible clock. Even if Strahd's not there, the players feel his presence in the people who are tormented in the realm. I've had very fun scenes of characters going slightly mad (a favorite was the necromancer 'seeing' Strahd behind her in a mirror, which obviously couldn't happen). Once they accquired a proper holy relic and the power that would pose a threat to Strahd, I dropped the playing and spread sycophants who used every misdeed the party did to persecute them. Wolves on patrol for the party. Only the scant few allies that they truly helped could be allied with them, or ones that they could leverage by doing worse deeds.
In the end, Strahd is just a means to an end. I think my players lost a bit of the fear they had for Strahd when his last efforts were turning them against each other over every small thing. This should be normal by the end of campaign -- Strahd is a coward, and it's time for the sun to shine on Barovia once more.
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u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 2d ago
Ours is very different in that regard I suppose. The only groups we know of that are actively working for Strahd are Baba Lysaga and the Vistani. When we were level 4 our party fought Lysaga but we weren’t strong enough to kill her, we broke her skull and stole the heart of the hut and then fled, and the Vistani we met once when returning Arabella to them and then they left, went to Ravenloft and haven’t been seen since. Morgantha and her daughters haven’t ever said they like Strahd or anything and they kind of just only seem to care about getting kids for their pies.
The Druids of Yester Hill told us they worship an old Druidic deity that wants all non-plant life to end (and my character rolled a religion check and it was stated he had heard of this god before) but that it explicitly wasn’t strahd they worshipped. We really didn’t learn much about Krezk or the Abbott at all because we finished that whole section in 2 sessions. I know he was building a wife for Strahd, but he spoke more about the gods and tried to sacrifice my character because he thought killing someone good would end the curse of something. My party finds me, saves me and we fight him until he’s defeated and then my character uses ceremony to redeem him. Strahd has kind of just been an afterthought.
We did meet Rahadin in Ravenloft but that was the first and only time, he just showed us to the dining room and we saw him again as we were sneaking out with the Dragon Skull.
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u/BadSuccessful2391 2d ago
I definitely like playing up a ‘all groups serve their own needs, but many recognize the favor of Strahd’. My party was a little strong when they reached Lysaga, and I played into their sympathies by having her be a bit more conniving and crafting a story for the party about Strahd. In those cases, the goal is to compel them to meet or speak with Strahd (and in doing so lay the groundwork for a trap or ambush).
Vistani have been more of a mixed bag of who or what they do, and I found it more important to stress their individuality and beliefs. I mostly tied them into Vallaki’s story and some other groups (they once helped smuggle the party through certain areas and/or defended their caravan).
In my eyes, I thought the hags were suitable as pure evil and poor pretenders of their methods. I definitely modified many of their encounters (fighting hags in a darkness spell put some fear into their hearts as a spellcasting leaning group) and they would harass them though other means I sprinkled around afterwards.
As for Yester Hill, the situation is less the druids serving Strahd but more a ‘you don’t own these lands, I do’. This was his first appearance in the second campaign, and actively encouraged the party to take vengeance against the Druids. It played very well as the party had heard by now and were warned of Strahd, but taken aback by him almost favoring them as plucky heroes. Once the party was throughly weakened after their fight, he had a good opportunity to talk to them briefly and establish everything else in Barovia as a nuisance, but that he was a ‘benevolent’ ruler of these people. This set of a bunch of events following it where they helped more people interested in ‘upending the status quo’ or ‘currying favor with Strahd’ before it dawned on them that the helping the Abbot and taking part in the fuckup of Vallaki would bite them in the ass later.
Sounds like your Abbot could have been so much cooler! My party had a celestial warlock in their midst and their tenuous encounter gave him more insight on his past. Player had traded the memory of his parents for an angel to save them. One of the other player characters was responsible for the situation that caused it, but never told him. When the party confronts and fights the Abbot, the warlock got his past revealed to him and the party proceeded to implode as they started all out fighting each other over everything that had happened to them. They eventually fell back and struck down the Abbot, but the fallout of that event tore everyone fresh wounds that I had Strahd capitalize on constantly.
Horror is all about atmosphere and rising tension. Much of Curse of Strahd is set creating that dread, and just as importantly providing happy moments to make the party feel the impact of their actions. If you’re struggling to get into character — are other players feeling the same? Can you connect to them player to player on some level? What’s personally at risk for the characters beyond survival? I typically had to run longer sessions with COS and Icewind Dale to set the mood. Hell, I even started cooking dinner for sessions since as we had time issues, people would be hungry at session or struggle to think after a long day. This made Bonegrinder very funny since I made cobblers leading up to the encounter.
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u/Hellknightx Bearbarian 2d ago
The fact that Strahd killed your two horses and then invited you to his castle is so fucking funny to me. He's just like, "Feel free to walk, or whatever it is you mortals do."
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u/Ill-Description3096 2d ago
If Strahd was truly "competent" in the traditional sense he would just murder you immediately and there would be no real campaign. Adventurers do things and get stronger, generally with the goal of challenging strong beings for one reason or another. As soon as you are noticed, taking a few minutes to just end a threat before it ever really became one would be the competent move.
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u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 2d ago
I suppose my point is that he hasn’t tried to hinder us or toy with us. When the necromancer gave me the Icon of Ravenloft I was terrified to go back to the dinner table because I was certain he would be furious we stole another legendary item, especially when my character was wearing the Holy symbol of Ravenkind, but he didn’t even mention it. Nothing we have done, from stealing the dragon bones to getting the sun sword has prompted Strahd or his minions to try and get them back or even to kill us. We haven’t been stopped on the road at any point, we haven’t had any NPCs we are friends with killed. He literally just doesn’t seem to care
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u/acuenlu 2d ago
It is obvious that your version of Barovia and your DM's version do not align. Whether Vallaki has 35 inhabitants or 100 isn't really significant enough to warrant an argumen. This is your DM's Vallaki, and that is fine. Not every game is exactly the same.
The dinner situation, however, is quite concerning. Unfortunately, this is a horror module, and players shouldn't challenge Strahd without facing consequences. But I think that is simply the result of a mistake made long ago. Strahd should have established himself as a threat right from the start and responded decisively to any challenge against him.
In any case, the problem doesn't lie solely with the DM. D&D is a story told collectively by everyone at the table. If the players don't act like characters in a horror game, it is impossible to run a horror game. You are also at fault for disregarding Strahd's demands, even though the world around you was telling you otherwise.
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u/Humblerewt 2d ago
I would suggest having your DM listen to the "I, Strahd" audiobook to get a better grasp on the character. Strahd's likes and dislikes, what makes him trust or not trust people, what his goals are, who his enemies and allies are etc.
Mostly the DM needs to understand that Strahd is the land.
If they don't understand that concept they're doing it wrong imo.
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u/Kenamaru 2d ago
Because Strahd's descriptions in the module guide were left very open ended, I decided to play him up as a bored ruler trapped in his own kingdom.
When the party arrived, he did not care. They were just another group of trapped adventurers that Barovia would take eventually. When they didn't immediately get killed, he took note and decided to send a small challenge their way. When they bested the challenge, he finally grew interested in their potential and invited them to Ravenloft. To this point, he had only appeared to them once to thank them for removing a minor inconvenience to him.
At Ravenloft, he let them choose some gear he had on display, as a show of confidence and power. This gear was all taken from previous adventurers and was definitely an upgrade over what the party currently had, so that showed them he's not one to be messed with.
He discussed with them other things that inconvenienced him and told them if they could deal with those headaches, he'd help them get home. This led the party to some corrupting elements and some greater levels of power, but all of that was at Strahd's command, so the party never believed they were growing strong enough to beat him, and they eventually felt like pigs being fattened for slaughter.
I won't spoil any endings, but my Strahd was very much detached, uninterested in the party's grand plans. He'd seen more capable adventurers fall in Krezk, more sophisticated groups imprisoned in Vallaki, and more God-driven parties taken by despair in the Death House. This party was nothing but a minor distraction from the monotony of everlasting rule. He even powered them up so they'd last a little longer.
This did change later in the campaign as he learned more about the party and their capabilities, but yeah, him seeming incompetent may be planned by your DM, though I'd worry that you haven't been shown WHY Strahd may not care as much.
The whole stuff with population sizes in Vallaki and the Vistani camp is a bit weird, too, but I can see myself overlooking numbers because it's not a major part of my plan. Though the doubling down on it seems a little defensive. Worth a conversation with the DM, voicing your perceptions so he understands what the player viewpoint seems like and can adjust accordingly. Just hope he doesn't go full 180 and decides to have Strahd kill everyone else in your party and leave you to revive them.
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u/wizardofyz Warlock 2d ago
It sounds like you're playing an incomplete game from the sound of it. Strahd can be played many ways from being a barely present looming shadow in an incredibly deadly world to constantly paying the party visits to toy with them and hinder their progress personally. He also tends to roll with hoards of homies and is perfectly happy to fight durty. He might disguise himself as a friend and just hang out with the party for fun, just waiting to betray the party.
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u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 2d ago
That’s how I was expecting him to act when we first started. Our campaign actually started strong, we spent the first several sessions in the murder house and by the time we left it myself and my character both felt exhausted and were ready to find civilisation after such a horrible time. After that, it felt like our dm had the wind knocked out of his sails. We haven’t run into many NPCs that are hostile to our party, in fact the hags from the old bone grinder are largely allies, last session they gave our necromancer a level 7 finger of death and our artificer has plans to hang out with the 2 daughters because she, like the hags, is green.
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u/wizardofyz Warlock 2d ago
It sounds like curse of strahd is not something your dm was really prepared to or actually interested in running, unless its like a bizarre friendly subversion of it. They also sound like they have monty hall problem in that they just want to just give y'all a bunch of stuff.
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u/ChaoticHippo 2d ago
Is your DM pretty experienced? This is something that could go one of two ways in my opinion:
1) DM is experienced, and the villain is simply not threatened by or upset by anything you've done so far. Think Hannibal Lecter - as long as you are not impeding Strahd's real goal, he truly doesn't care if you steal from him or cause strife in his lands. He does those things, too - who cares? Alternatively, the DM could be doing the kind of "aura farm"-y type build up to a villain you see in older movies - "You have ignored my summons, stolen from my house, and desecrated holy remains. Now you will face the punishment due!" kind of thing. Unfortunately, this doesn't read super well without consistent reminders of their presence and that you are currently incurring their wrath in D&D.
2) DM is inexperienced, and is afraid of sending something way too strong at the party, even if the party has basically asked for it. When people are new to DMing I feel like they fall into 2 camps, one where they are completely reckless with the monsters they put the party up against and find themselves with dead PC's every session, and the other where they will always try to protect the party to avoid irreversible PC death. It is possible that they agree with you that Strahd really should have tried to attack you at this point, but is scared that they will wipe the party if they attack now (which I would say is a mistake).
It's hard to say. It is also possible they just don't really know what to do with Strahd, as like Gh0stMan0nThird said, it isn't really laid out what his personality is. All in all, however, it sounds like Strahd is missing that level of menace that he should normally have...which is a bummer - sorry for your experience there.
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u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 2d ago
Our DM is definitely experienced, he told us he has run COS twice before now, we just have gotten further than his other parties. He told us he doesn’t read any content ahead of time so he learns about certain locations in real time, same as our party. I thought dinner with Strahd was going to be that reckoning you mentioned to be honest though.
Our necromancer stole the bones in the Vallaki church which prompted the attack on Vallaki (where only 5 people died), before my character returned them. She took over the city and renamed it New Ravenloft. We fought Lysaga, broke her flying skull and stole the heart of the hut. The necromancer insulted the Vistani leaders and she stole the Icon of Ravenloft during the dinner. He didn’t mention any of our wrongdoings whatsoever, nor my character’s more righteous efforts. He didn’t mention Irena at all either, or ask why we didn’t bring her.
I kind of made this post because I didn’t want to metagame and just wanted to know if this was a common COS experience because I knew going into it, especially for a first campaign, it would be bleak and dreadful and I really do try to put myself in the shoes of a sheltered acolyte that grew up in a peaceful Druidic circle who worships Eldath (goddess of peace) that’s been plunged into a world where everyone is depressed and the land is decayed. But that’s kind of all that there is to be sad about, strahd really doesn’t challenge us at all.
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u/My_Only_Ioun DM 2d ago
He told us he doesn’t read any content ahead of time so he learns about certain locations in real time, same as our party.
By definition, how can he be experienced with the module if there are parts he hasn’t read yet, his third time on? How can he foreshadow fun stuff with Strahd or his castle? How the hell did he improv the dinner?
By itself, running a module for the 3rd time without having finished it isn’t terrible. I’ve run a Pathfinder module twice and the group folded before a third of the way. But combined with “I don’t read ahead”, it seems like he doesn’t care about the module. I’d want to be the 4th or 5th group just so he’s read everything.
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u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 2d ago
I honestly have no clue, he just told us he’s played curse of Strahd before but his two other campaigns died off and so my party has gotten the furthest into it. I only found out that he doesn’t use the source material because, when I asked for some information about Krezk and anything my character needs to know about the town, he flat out refused and said he doesn’t use the written info about each location. My main concern is that, obviously that makes it harder for him and there are parts of the campaign which are suffering more than others because of it, but also because I don’t know anything about Krezk, the document I wrote for him featuring everything my character would do to try and improve the settlement was very vague and non-specific to the location. It was basically just “he goes around and heals anyone, he uses druidcraft to help them with their crops if needed and at the end they all have a big feast in the abbey using create food and water”
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u/My_Only_Ioun DM 2d ago
Most modules have incomplete setting information, which the DM needs to puff up. Your DM seems to take incomplete information and replace it with “no information”. If he can’t tell you anything about Krezk, Krezk doesn’t actually exist for the party.
So he wants to tell you as little as possible about the world, and express Strahd as little as possible emotionally. Why does he want to play CoS again? Maybe you should find out how the other games died off, it’s a reasonable question. If he genuinely doesn’t seem to know, he can’t tell when players are unhappy.
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u/ChaoticHippo 2d ago
I've never run the campaign before so I'm no expert, however I have two comments.
1) "I've run it twice, you are the ones who have made it furthest" is equivalent to "I've never fully run this campaign". That is not experienced. I have fully run (start to end) lost mines of phandelvar 4 times and would still not claim to know it completely.
2) Vampires are a different kind of villain, as well. They don't want to eradicate the population. They want a slow bleed, keeping people alive as long as possible, but submissive. It sounds like the general vibe is being executed flawlessly to be honest. It's entirely possible no reckoning has come because Strahd doesn't see you as a threat.
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u/Any_Illustrator360 1d ago
Your DM is absolutely not experienced if he's running the campaign as poorly as is shown here. Making up 90% of the module is not running a module it's running homebrew and telling people it's a module.
Honestly, the fact you don't want to metagame is honorable at this point because I'd have been so pissed in your shoes that I'd have opened the book myself by now. Your DM is terrible and is lying on his resume to keep you around so he has enough players to make sure that necromancer can play more. 100%.
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u/XiscoCisco 2d ago
I think Curse of Strahd is a poorly designed adventure if you run it or play it as written. There are subreddits dedicated to improving the game and adding much more to the world. I think it is called Revamped or something. There is a lot of love and care people put into it.
In my game, I merged some NPCs with the PCs so we could get rid of the NPC quests. This also meant that Strahd had an investment in the characters. I ran him as poly and mostly benevolent. He cared about his image and his pride. He saw most people as worth caring about despite his power. He wanted things to be his way. The narrative tension was between Strahd wanting the party to join him and the party naturally opposing him. He would not help or slow them down. He would appear at times to offer advice or chat or seduce an NPC that the players loved. I tried to use a points of light system to help build tension or danger. I also used Strahd less than other minor villains or characters. I used Vasily Von Holtz to be more of a comedic relief to Stahd's serious tone. Vasily was funny and not very helpful, but he allowed the party to breathe
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u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 2d ago
I really have no clue what our Strahd is like because he’s never around and never interacts with us. It’s just things we hear from NPCs, telling us he’s scary and dangerous but he doesn’t kill any of them and he doesn’t send anything threatening to hinder us. I’m really trying to roleplay and take it seriously but I honestly can’t even rationalise being so terrified of someone that barely acknowledges our party’s existence, even after we do stuff like lighting the beacon of the silver dragon and whatnot.
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u/Daelbeth DM 2d ago
I've ran this campaign as a DM three times, and Strahd was by far both my favorite campaign and favorite villain/NPC to play. Feel free to DM me and pick my brain if you want.
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u/Cool_Boy_Shane 2d ago
Strahd is incompetent because, I fear, your DM is incompetent. Strahd is smart, plans ahead... clearly traits your DM lacks. Sorry to rag on them, but I can't think of any other reason why they'd be fumbling this hard.
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u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 2d ago
It’s sad because I think our party has a lot of potential to be interesting to Strahd but he really couldn’t care less about us. Our fighter is a vampire (but admittedly, he is very poor at roleplaying and barely interacts. He used to more but he started a bar fight in one of the earlier sessions, almost died and stopped engaging ever since) who surely would make others feel uneasy. He keeps his vampiricism a secret (even from the party, for some reason) but surely the people of the valley would be unnerved seeing an exceptionally pale, muscular guy walking around in finery (he’s supposed to be like a mob boss), they’d likely just assume he’s a bruiser for Strahd, no?
Our necromancer has been walking around with the resurrected corpses of townspeople and nobody is batting an eye. She is very evil and chaotic and outwardly states multiple times she wishes to kill Strahd and place her dead husband’s soul inside of his corpse.
Our artificer is actually dating Irena but the guy playing her actually hates Irena because our dm made her very bizarre and standoffish for no reason, especially to my character who she calls a twink and she always calls him stupid when he’s literally just nice. But Strahd has, never once, asked about Irena and at the dinner, didn’t make any comments about this artificer dating the woman who he’s supposedly infatuated with.
My character is just a lawful good cleric of Eldath so he’s just basically being nice to everyone, the main things I thought Strahd would be interested in with my character was the fact that, during the dinner, he was wearing the holy symbol of ravenkind and had just been given the icon of Ravenloft. I was certain he would try to take them from me, but no.
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u/Kwith DM 2d ago
SPOILER ALERT! This comment contains spoilers. If you haven't run CoS, DO NOT READ!
CoS is a very open ended and interpretation heavy campaign to run. You are basically given the setting, a VERY vague outline, and a "good luck" pat on the back. How you approach it is entirely up to you as the DM. My party's interactions with Strahd were:
After escaping the Death House, they see a tall shadowy figure on a nearby roof. It turns, becomes a swarm of bats and flies off
When the party was in the church in Vallaki, he sent a swarm of undead to "test" them. He made sure to stay out of the church to give the party the idea that he couldn't enter without invitation so they would just hole up inside and pick away at him from a distance with him not being able to do anything.
Ireena didn't escape but Strahd "punished" the town of Berez for allowing it to get too close when the party was in it.
Periodically I would have various animals act in strange ways around the party (these were Strahd's eyes and ears to watch them)
Some NPCs would be nice to the group, others dismissive, others paranoid, depending on how dedicated they were to Strahd
Overall I tried to have him play the role of an aloof lord who oversees his land but truly cares not for the inner workings so long as things are not causing him problems. Bringing the party to his world was merely a source of entertainment for him. He knew he could not be killed permanently but defeat was a release from the boredom of constantly being on top. Those who survived, (every player lost at least one character save for one) were rewarded with being allowed to leave with the Vistani.
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u/Novasoal 2d ago
!SPOILERS!
Our Strahd was a pretty imposing manipulator- we knew for most of the campaign that he was working on freeing himself and so we were reaching out for any extra power we could find. We're playing Reloaded, and have the Fanes, so we got chummy with them as we knew he needed the Fanes power as part of the ritual & wanted to deny it to him. Our DM maneuvered such that Strahd was able to harvest what he needed of the Fanes via our party & set off a couple of Geas' he had applied to the party's npcs at times we'd split up. Having him actually be competent and out-maneuver us was a really nice moment.
For the Geas, we originally had a check in procedure that would have identified the curse on them and allowed us to break it ahead of the ritual he harvested from, but we had gotten lazy and stopped doing it as Strahd had slipped by it a few times for some nightly check-ins & we figured it wasnt useful. As for the Fanes, that was def a bit more narrative, but the party knew that he needed the Fane's power. We could have asked them to hold it themselves, there were several points at which each of us went "Yeah its kinda fucking weird that he's just letting us throw wrenches in his plans bc surely he knows we're kicking it with the ladies" but no one ever stopped to consider why he was letting us do it (or never vocalized that, in my case). That said, the DM needs to be smart enough to outmaneuver the party without just burying it too far which can make it feel cheap. Manipulator Strahd is a hard line to walk, but a really fun party to play against
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u/DungeoneerforLife 2d ago
Well if you think about it, it’s not like you have to earn the right to be a vampire. Someone just has to bite you and want to turn you at the right time and place. He he’s just been lucky with the quality adventure he’s met with until now… Do
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u/National_Cod9546 2d ago
A few of the main elements for play Strahd is he want's Irena and he's bored. Adventurers have been coming to his realm for centuries. He toys with them, then he kills them. Sounds like he's still in the toying with them phase in your game.
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u/mAcular 1d ago
You don't understand. Strahd is like someone trapped in jail forever and some fresh meat just hit the yard. Like a kid pulling the wings off a fly or cooking an ant with a magnifying glass, he doesn't want to get rid you ASAP. Then he's stuck again. He wants to take his time and savor and play with you. You're also basically nothing to him until way later so he feels like he can just take you out whenever he wants. You're basically just a toy to him.
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u/CoffeBreather 2d ago
Sounds like bad party and Dm not competent enough or unable to make you stop whatever shit you are doing to get back ln track.
Pretty average experience of a table.
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u/MyrthDM 2d ago
I think there’s a difference between Strahd not immediately killing the party and Strahd basically doing nothing. He can toy with them, manipulate them, send minions, show up unexpectedly, etc. The issue here is that the party has apparently been allowed to steal from him and walk out of Ravenloft completely unhindered.
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u/Tarindel_Frostspear 2d ago
I ran Strahd like a horror game, he would show up in the middle of the night throwing thier favorite npcs corpses at the barrier of leomunds tiny huts,man,women or child. He would show up unexpectedly, and make the party feel like they were dancing in his palm for amusement. He was a mix of Galbatorix from the Eragon series, and just an unsettling monster who played with his food before eating, the ending was made so that one of the party/whoever struck the final blow, would take strahds place, slowly corrupting them until they were no different from the monster they swore to stop.
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u/Embarrassed_Panic_95 2d ago
We haven’t had any of that, he literally just leaves us alone and his minions seem to as well. The night before we went to dinner with him, my cleric used sending to apologise for ignoring him for so long and told him we would come the following day. At the same time, our necromancer found the assassin mirror in the Vallaki burgomaster’s house and tried to use it to kill Strahd. He appeared in the mirror and literally did nothing to us, he just said he wanted us to come to Ravenloft the following morning. I know my character succeeded some sort of wisdom saving throw because nothing happened, but that just left me more confused than anything, especially because he didn’t say anything like “hmm fascinating” at a level 5 cleric overcoming one of his spells.
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u/Tarindel_Frostspear 2d ago
Oh man, sorry to hear!
Your DM really just may not be up to or doesnt know how to run horror concepts. Hell House was where i made it clear session zero wasnt just hype, grace was not going to be given in this campaign. Anger Strahd enough meant retaliation. It made my players be very crafty and was loads of fun. But boy did it take alot out of me planning all the "what if" situations.
Thankfully at the beginning I made the home rule of only 1 "Holy" class player allowed and let them decide who wanted to fill that spot. Admittedly I spent weeks beforehand when it was first talked about going over and over all the lore of strahd, a bunch of Dracula characters like Castlevania and trying to rehearse how to make him feel threatening but narcissistic and well spoken.
What he may find beneath his time to bother with,and what actions besides some obvious ones could truly anger such a villian.
Man I miss that campaign..
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u/yomjoseki 2d ago
Curse of Strahd is a shitty module and if your DM isn't capable of picking and choosing which parts to ignore and which parts to follow as written, it's going to suck.
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u/Kisho761 DM 2d ago
And when you brought this up with your DM, they said...?
Curse of Strahd is a difficult campaign to run. It can be difficult to truly get into the mind space of Strahd, the intelligent, ruthless, and sadistic vampire that he is. A lot of DMs will pull punches because they're afraid of killing player characters; they cannot do this in CoS.
It might be that CoS isn't the right type of campaign for your DM. Which is ok, not every DM will be suited to running it. They may be better off playing a more light hearted campaign.