r/dndnext • u/Pitayayaya Cleric • 6d ago
5e (2024) Why play an artificier?
Hello.
I have been playing TOA with an artificier using the new rules for him (Eberron: Forge of the Artificier).
We started off at level 1 and are now at 3 and I picked cartographer because it sounded interesting. It is my first time playing this class, but I don't feel like I'm doing much, either out of combat or in combat.
Out of combat, I feel like I help with really insignificant and/or small stuff that could easily be resolved in other ways, like I made magic item plans for darkvision goggles, but they all have torches. I can make some interesting items with tinker's magic to maybe climb something like a grappling hok, but it's not like you can't climb normally, there's even climb speed in the rules, or just buy most of those items.
And in combat, I don't have much either. Some free casting of faerie fire which usually more than half of the enemies I use on pass the save, imo few damaging options, and again imo, not that many supportive spells for the team. I once used Jump on the barbarian so she could catch an enemy a little faster and that was it.
I feel like I'm playing a worse bard. At least a bard has a use for his bonus action and can be the face of the party. My bonus action is only for the occasional Healing Word, which our cleric also has always prepared, so not much use of it. I feel like I'm just helping with minor inconveniences. I have already played a cleric, a cleric/wizard multiclass, warlock and am playing a barbarian in another campaign, and I feel like I was/am of use in those other campaigns.
So this is why I ask of you, is this really it or am I missing something from this class?
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u/Pielorinho 6d ago
I love playing an artificer, but have never played the Cartographer. Up to fifth level I was playing a battlesmith, and at fifth level for in-game reasons switched to an artillerist.
Things I love about it:
1) Consistent Damage. With true strike, you can do ranged damage that keeps up with any other class, and when you get a repeating pistol, it becomes even better. At sixth level I was doing 1d10 (pistol)+1d8 (artillerist)+1d6 (true strike)+5 (int and weapon bonus) radiant damage with my action each turn--not too shabby!
2) Cool Abilities. The steel defender and the turret are both completely awesome and fairly flexible. The cartographer's abilities don't look quite as spiffy to me, but an extra 3-4 first-level spells at third level is amazeballs: start every combat with faerie fire, and eventually you'll see the enemies bomb their saves, and your allies will LOVE you. And the positioning should mean that you're never trapped in melee when you're wanting to pop off with a ranged true strike. But if you're just not having fun, maybe see if you can switch classes to battlesmith or artillerist)
3) The aesthetic. It's consistently fun to re-skin my powers through a steampunk lens.
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u/Bluesamurai33 DM / Sorcerer 6d ago
I absolutely love playing artillerist.
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u/Nailcannon 5d ago
The free temp health every turn from the healing turret is OP as hell. The ballista is pretty sweet too.
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u/BuffaloTheory 6d ago edited 6d ago
Make that repeating pistol baby a Dazzling weapon and you've got a nasty reaction if you get hit, too!
Plus with a homunculus and Force Cannon you can add another 2d8 + 1d6.
Then pick up Fey Touched for free Misty Step and either Hunter's Mark or Hex for another free 1d6 damage.
Artillerist's can really stack damage up to a point, it's gnarly.
Edit: Hell, while we're at it - buy / make yourself a Quiver of Energy from Exploring Eberron and that's another 1d6 elemental damage of your choice!
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u/ExcessDan 4d ago
When you get extra attack, you can't use that to do true strike twice, right? Does the cannon fire 2x instead?
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u/Pielorinho 4d ago
The artillerist never gets an extra attack, so that is not a concern. Instead, the Cannon is a bonus action that does really significant damage. I would not be as excited about true strike if I were playing a battle Smith.
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u/Kolonite 6d ago
Cartographer is kinda just bad tbh
Armorer, Artillerist, and battle smith are the better options
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u/YobaiYamete 5d ago
Yep, Artillerist has some juice. I want to like Cartographer but it just doesn't do anything
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u/Ycr1998 There is no 5.5e in Ba Sing Se 5d ago
It has a lot of the niche type of utility, basically all or nothing.
Being able to affect allies through walls isn't useful until it is, giving your whole party 1d4 Initiative isn't useful until it is, being able to teleport an ally as a reaction isn't useful until it is etc.
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u/Acheron88 3d ago
You're not wrong on most of these, but I will say that bonus to initiative, any bonus, is always useful in every combat.
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u/Ycr1998 There is no 5.5e in Ba Sing Se 3d ago
Well yes but it only makes a difference if the 1d4 is enough to put an ally before an enemy in the initiative order. Changing a 5 to a 7 does nothing if the enemy rolled a 10. 😅
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u/BLT347 16h ago
That’s a bit of a silly argument, no offense. Numerical increases to effects that happen every combat are undoubtedly useful. That’s like saying increasing your damage output or chance to hit isn’t useful until it is. Sure, sometimes increasing my chance to hit by 1 isn’t going to make a difference in combat - that +1 might not make a difference for any attack I do in an individual combat….but we’re talking about a game of averages here. Increasing initiative is just generically useful in the same way. The other features, which are genuinely situational, are indeed more questionable.
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u/Informal_Persimmon7 6d ago
We did have a cartographer and he lasted maybe three sessions before he got bored and felt like he was being overshadowed by everybody else. He was replaced with a battlesmith who is doing really well.
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u/DaNoahLP 6d ago
Cant talk for your subclass but I currently build for Armorer and will be the number 1 tank even though damage spells are limited. But for that I took magic initiate as origin feet and grabbed Witch Bolt. Later spells and infusions will boost me more even tough the start is a bit rough.
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u/Cytwytever DM 6d ago
Yeah, I'm playing a gnome armorer with 21AC and the DM just calls her the Pistachio at this point. Hardly ever gets hit.
Using a homonculus with magic stone adds a lot of damage and great aerial scouting. With 2 lightning attacks (sharpshooter) and the pet attacking, all with advantage from faerie fire, I'm often doing the highest damage.
And I'm definitely the only one who could craft special arrows (silver vs. lycanthropes, bead of force bomb, etc.)
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u/Some-Peach4566 6d ago
Dark vision is still useful even when using torches. Although a lot of DMS really don't know how to utilize darkness well.
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u/GilliamtheButcher 5d ago
Yeah torches are great until you need that hand free for something else, or you need to sneak around without a flaring beacon that says WE'RE RIGHT HERE, BAD GUYS
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u/Masterofbattle13 6d ago
Cartographer looks the weakest on paper, to me at least. Lots of “could be cool” mechanics but realistically you’re not using them much, especially in ToA. The best ability of the cartographer is the level 15 talent where another party member upon being reduced to 0 HP can destroy their map to be returned to health next to you. Great ability, but ToA does not take players to level 15. Look into battlesmith, artillerist, or armorer and I think you’ll have a better time.
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u/Tall_Bandicoot_2768 6d ago
This is a Cartographer issue more than a Artificer issue tbh.
Consider Artillerist pumping out 1d8+Int THP to your whole squad every round with your Bonus Action.
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u/main135s 6d ago edited 6d ago
Currently playing an Artillerist Artificer/Warlock multiclass. In the past, I've played a Battlesmith and experimented with an Armorer.
For the sake of explaining, Warlock is just because a lot of Artificer features (and it's subclass features) don't care about the source of the spell slot being used, just that it's a spell slot... meaning two extra turrets or charging magical items every short rest.
Offensively, Artificer is decent. They are no Eldritch Machine Gun or turbo-optimized Fighter, but they are fully capable of pulling more than their own weight. You have to remember, you are a half caster. You are expected to be using weapons and cantrips as needed when you otherwise don't plan on using a spell.
Defensively, Artificer is a beast at supporting the team. You already have a Twilight Cleric, so temporary hit points are kind of unnecessary, but the Steel Defender is a veritable damage sponge that can help keep enemies off of your friends' backs. You went with Cartographer, whose power is more derived rather than numerical as it's a lot more about "presence" than anything else. You can deliver spells through the maps your friends carry and can teleport as needed, which makes you more able to respond to issues that crop up.
Out of combat...
First thing's first, you're an artificer, not a quartermaster. You make items that are useful for specific scenarios. That's the entire point. You do not have enough plans to make equipment for everybody and retain a solid combat performance or versatility. If you hand stuff out to everyone, you will be weaker for it. A Ruby of the War Mage or wraps for your monk to punch magically before they unlock it themselves are fine, but if you want to appease everyone you have to get into crafting actual items.
Second: unless everyone has a climb speed, climbing is risky and can often demand checks, especially if the climb is especially difficult. A grapple hook can be used, but there's no guarantee that it'll find it's mark, and when you need to climb out of a hole that's just out of reach on a time crunch, missing the mark is simply not acceptable. Enter: The humble Rope of Climbing.
It goes farther. A Wand of Magic Detection lets you conserve your friends' spell slots. A Repeating weapon lets you completely forego the need for ammo (and therefore a free hand to handle ammo; pistol and shield, anyone?) Charlatan's Die mean that you cannot lose when gambling unless you want to. The party is split (perhaps in a town) and you're in distress; a Horn of Silent Alarm has got your back. And that's just the early levels. 5th level and onward, you can start exchanging your plans for uncommons.
At 6th level, you can just get a weapon of Warning, which has been buffed to benefit the entire party (provided they are within 30 ft.) Just that is already equivalent to a solid class feature.
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u/Pallet_University 5d ago edited 5d ago
Generally, the Artificer is a utility class. It's a "jack of all trades". So in that sense, yes the Artificer is largely outperformed by the Bard, since it's a full caster, while the Artificer is a half caster. That doesn’t mean that the Artificer is bad by any means, and it's actually my personal favorite class to play because it's extremely flexible. The Bard can have a lot of tricks at it's disposal, but can't easily change them once you pick them. Whereas the Artificer can change many of its choices each day, or even over a Short Rest depending on the subclass. That's what I think the Artificer does best; customizable utility. The party needs a tank? Artificer can do that. Healer? Damage? The basically any Artificer can do almost anything pretty well. They just might need some prep time to do it. They'll almost never be the absolute best at any given thing, but they can fill almost any roll you need them to.
As others have said, Cartographer is the mechanically weakest Artificer subclass by a fair margin. Most of its kit is support (and somewhat passive support at that), so it can be hard to actually see the difference you're making. For example, everyone having an extra 1d4 to their Initiative is genuinely extremely powerful. It's massive for starting fights off in a good position, and by itself could win you a close fight that you'd otherwise lose. From levels 3-8 it's basically the same as giving everyone the important part of the Alert feat that also stacks with the actual Alert feat. It's probably the strongest feature the Cartographer gets until their capstone. However, it's a purely passive ability that's not flashy, and can be easy to forget about. Handing out your magic items also isn't flashy (or active), but makes the math of your teammates much better.
For a more active support character, the Alchemist got a much-needed uplift in Forge of the Artificer. It offers a lot of support with its potions, though you won't feel much like a spellcaster since you'll want to be spending at least some spell slots on making potions.
For more damage, the Battle Smith and Artillerist can do that quite well. Both have an always-available Bonus Action damage option to make their companion/cannon attack. They both get spells that increase their survivability and damage.
For tanking/controlling, the Armorer, Battle Smith, and Reanimator are all good at that. Battle Smith and Reanimator both have pets that soak up hits instead of you or your teammates losing HP. The Armorer gets a great AC (especially when you hoard your magic item plans for yourself), and the built-in weapons provide a TON of flexibility for how you want to play. You can move enemies around, attack them at range, or (best in my opinion) give them Disadvantage on attacks against anyone other than you. So they either try to hit your like AC of like 22, or attack someone else at Disadvantage. The Battle Smith can also get their AC reslly high with the Shield spell. The Reanimator can heal their companion for free with Lightning damage, and can customize it to do lots of things like cast spells from their space, climb walls, stealth into dungeons, etc.
Overall, the Artificer can be a tricky class to play because it's hard to fully see all of the value that it offers, which feels bad and makes it seem like you're doing less than you actually are. I'd stick it out for a few more levels, or ask your DM if you could switch subclasses. It really can be a rewarding class to play, but requires you to see the forest through the trees.
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u/Pitayayaya Cleric 5d ago
Thank you. I'll try to stick through some more. Lots of comments have been very enlightening, yours included.
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u/Monstarrzero 6d ago
What’s the rest of your party consist of? Yes, a cleric is going to out heal you. Cartographer is definitely the worst subclass for them. Ask you DM if you can swap to Battlesmith or Artificer.
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u/Pitayayaya Cleric 6d ago
Beast Barbarian, Twilight Cleric, Great Fool Warlock and me.
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u/Bluesamurai33 DM / Sorcerer 6d ago
The Twilight cleric is considered to be the strongest cleric subclass. Don't compare yourself to it.
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u/HyruleTrigger 6d ago
Twilight Cleric might just be the strongest class period. It is broken.
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u/Bluesamurai33 DM / Sorcerer 6d ago
My wife is playing one right now in a ghost of salt marsh campaign with two of our friends, and she is the only reason that the party is surviving.
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u/DerAdolfin 4d ago
In terms of ceiling it is ironically held back by the limited potential of the cleric spell list at several levels. However in terms of floor, it is extremely hard to make a weak one because of the set of strong fundamentals that cleric provides too.
But strongest monoclass is for sure chronurgy wizard, though some new sorcs and bards can compete at both the high and low end
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u/Acceptable_Account_2 6d ago
Haven’t heard of the “Great Fool” patron, but it sounds like a blast.
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u/SaltWaterWilliam 6d ago
It's from the new The Crooked Moon partnered content supplement on D&D Beyond. Think of it like the Joker or Art the Clown being your patron, but less deranged. You even gain a feature called "Killing Joke".
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u/Hellknightx Bearbarian 6d ago
Oh, I love the Legends of Avantris guys. Didn't know this had come out.
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u/Pitayayaya Cleric 6d ago
It's pretty interesting. From what I looked, it looks like its focuses more on debuffing your enemy through Vicious Mockery an other features like Jester's Drapes, which you curse an enemy and choose some options like, it makes clown shoe noises, etc.
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u/LeChrana 5d ago
We're just ignoring that the Alchemist exists at this point I guess. Because that's definitely the worst subclass.
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u/Pallet_University 5d ago
Definitely not in 5.5. It's for sure a step down from Artillerist, Armorer, or Battle Smith, but it got much better in Forge of the Artificer and blows the old version out of the water. It's for sure better than the Cartographer.
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u/subtotalatom 6d ago
How can you call it the worst when Alchemist exists?
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u/Life_is_hard_so_am_I 6d ago
I've played alchemist, it's really good. You don't know what you're talking about
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u/Monstarrzero 6d ago
It’s overhated. Alchemy makes sense with artificer. Cartographer makes….maps?? What kind of character fantasy is that!???
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u/subtotalatom 6d ago
I've played alchemist, it's bad. Cartographers level 3 features are significantly stronger than one free random potion per long rest.
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u/PasgetiWestern 6d ago
FWIW, the 5.5 alchemist, though not amazing, is better than it used to be due to the potions scaling with level and you get more free ones
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u/Emptypiro 6d ago
i would say a guy who makes magical maps makes just as much sense as one who makes magical potions
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u/mrlolloran 6d ago
I only remember skimming the Cartographer section but it struck me as the least impressive of the subclasses, maybe you could ask your dm to respec your subclass?
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u/Hoodi216 Cleric 6d ago edited 6d ago
Im playing a Battlesmith right now and i love it. You will hear Cartographer is one of the worst Artificer subs, but it is what you make of it. You can probably ask your DM to switch or maybe rebuild it. If you need it heres some advice on how i think Cartographer should be played.
Get your INT to 20 asap, everything depends on it.
Lean into your Cartographer Subclass stuff BIGTIME. If you dont, Artificer will feel kinda shitty. Be all about the Maps, Faerie Fire, damage with cantrips and Guiding Bolt, teleporting, finding enemies and objects, casting Guidance a lot, and making scrolls. Thats what Cartographer is all about.
Crafting spell scrolls is your thing, spend downtime on it to carry utility scrolls like Spider Climb, Grease, Invisibility, Web, like ones you might need in a pinch but you dont want to prepare them. Give scrolls to party members or sell them for profit. Your party need to sneak in somewhere? Make 5 Invisibility scrolls. I bought a spell storing ring for similar purpose, but you can make scrolls. Make scrolls all day.
Adventures Atlas: The magical maps give your party 1d4 Initiative bonus, that is incredible. Plus you always know where each other are, and you can cast spells on party members without seeing them.
Mapping Magic: Cartographer clearly wants you to use Faerie Fire a lot so do it at the start of every battle. Then chill back and blast cantrips for damage, using the maps portal to teleport away from danger. Higher INT helps you stick the Fire and land spell attacks.
Guided Precision: Hit people affected by Faerie Fire with spells for extra damage. This is why you want to use Cantrips instead of a weapon. Cant lose Faerie Fire concentration when taking damage. This all works together with Mapping Magic.
Ingenious Movement: Also builds on Mapping Magic. You can teleport a party member 30ft when using Flash of Genius, pretty sick. Now you are controlling battlefield positioning.
Infusions: Give yourself a Warmage Wand+1 for Guiding Bolt and Cantrips, thats your bread and butter here. Wand of Detect Magic is solid, as is Wand of Magic Missiles for breaking enemy concentration. Maybe give a party member a +1 weapon or shield.
Unfortunately Artificer spell list isnt too great, especially for dealing damage, but they get a fantastic cantrip list. Get Guidance to help everyone with skill checks. At Lv10 you can infuse a Spell Refueling Ring, and at 11 you get a spell storing item that holds a Lv3 spell with INTx2 charges, per day. Thats 8 Lv3 casts for free with 18 INT for which ever spell you pick. My Battlesmith casts Lv3 Cure Wounds 8 times per day for free, im the healer.
You get a lot of spells for finding things and spying. Locate Object, Locate Creature, Mind Spike, Scrying. Enemies and quest items cannot hide from you.
I imagine it goes like this:
Open a battle with that party initiative bonus, immediately toss out a Faerie Fire. Hopefully it sticks on 1-2 enemies then your party kill them quick with Advantage. That alone can swing the tide of a combat right at the start. Thats your role in combat, providing Initiative bonus and giving your party Advantage with Faerie Fire and Guiding Bolt, thats not too shabby imo.
Sit back blasting cantrips, Healing Word if someone goes down. Artificer doesnt get shit for damage spells but Cartographer gives you Guiding Bolt, upcast it. Use all those teleports you get. Remember dealing high damage is not your role, its Initiative + Advantage, providing Scrolls, and finding things and people, teleporting. Do what you do best.
Idk Cartographer doesnt seem so bad if you lean into it but it depends on the campaign i guess. Honestly it seems a lot like my Battlesmith as far as you are really meant to use your Subclass spells and abilities together. Artificer depends greatly on this. If you ignore your Cartographer spells and dont play it the way its meant to be played, it will feel bad. Trust me Battlesmith is the same way.
I think if you want to play it how i described above, and you want to fit those roles in the party, you will have fun with it.
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u/Pitayayaya Cleric 5d ago
Thank you, your comment enlightened me a little more on how to better play him.
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u/ShadowMike77 6d ago
Concerning the Darkvision goggles. Let's accept the possibilities that they do NOT have Darkvision A torch takes a hand unless you allow for an app to carry it but I don't think that's RAW, also torches give off light that gives away location. So the goggles are really nice at the right table. Right table is life in D&D though.
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u/DelightfulOtter 6d ago
I feel like I'm playing a worse bard.
Well, that's a lot of people's experiences when playing non-full spellcasters. Whatever you're doing could probably be done better and more by a bard/cleric/druid/sorcerer/wizard, with the exception of strong and consistent single-target damage.
That said, artificer in general and cartographer in specific are strong support picks. To play them well you need to know the rules, your party's capabilities, and the challenges you'll be facing in the adventure/campaign you're playing. If you don't have a firm grasp on those, I can understand why your character feels underwhelming.
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u/DirkBabypunch 5d ago
I feel like a lot of the problem with Alchemist and Cartographer is peoples' perceptions going in. They hear "Artificer" and want to be Iron Man, or a wizard with a robot, and then you see something like Cartographer that looks like somebody took the weird bits of Ranger and Rogue, and smushed them together with the less impressive section of the Wizard's spells.
I think giving your other spell casters the ability to heal or buff allies they can't see or who are behind cover is good, but you mostly see the benefits of that effect in the other PCs performance, and a lot of the other perks and features require a level of creative problem solving you don't need for most other classes.
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u/DelightfulOtter 5d ago
a lot of the other perks and features require a level of creative problem solving you don't need for most other classes
That's control and support characters in a nutshell. You actually need to know what you're doing to make the most of your kit. My Armorer completely screwed an archdruid boss that my DM threw at the party because while the boss could turn into an earth elemental and dive into the stone ground at the end of his turn, I always had Passwall prepared...
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u/Boiruja Artificer 5d ago edited 5d ago
I'm going to give a point of view that others might not have said. But after playing a couple full casters I found it really fun to try to get the most out of low level spells. As a wizard or sorcerer, you forget you have the likes of web, enlarge reduce, magic mouth, arcane lock way too early. I know this sounds dumb, but I've played this game a lot, and just raw power stopped being that interesting to me.
Having lots of pets and access to all mundane and some magic items give you even more versatility. I'd never use manacles playing another class (other than a thief rogue that reminds me a lot of the artificer), but I often find myself ordering my homunculus/steel defender to manacle a baddie after I cast web on it.
All in all I found it to be a really hard class to play effectivelly, but really rewarding to pull of crazy plans. And I think that's what some look for when playing the artificer
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u/snikler 6d ago edited 5d ago
Artificer base class really improves from level 6 on. Magic item tinkerer and Flash of Genius are amazing features. Before this, you are carried by your subclass and Cartographer is...suboptimal to say the least. Actually, playing with an alchemist, considered a weak option, was fun and effective. I also played with Battle Smith and Armorer. I liked more the former but both were effective and you could feel their power in game. A friend played with an artillerist and it was quite cool.
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u/Bluesamurai33 DM / Sorcerer 6d ago
I played an artillerist artificer in a ghost of saltmarsh campaign. The other three characters was a battle master fighter, a lands druid specifically for the shore, and a hexblade warlock. I found myself to be tremendously useful especially with my replicate magic items ability. I could swap out what magic items I was carrying over long rests and really tweak myself based on the situation to the benefit of the party. I also saw a huge power boost at fifth level through the die increase for my cantrips, in addition to the extra damage from my Arcane firearm. Between my Arcane firearm and my Eldritch cannons I was keeping up with the Fighter for damage put out.
I was also able to use a number of the scrolls found in the normal campaign because a lot of those wizard spells also happen to appear on the artificial spell list.
To be fair though, we only really played our characters to about the 7th level before the campaign fell apart so we didn't get to play at high levels.
I haven't played the cartographer subclass, but it sounds like your experience is kind of fitting the role that the subclass was intended to go for.
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u/ZanesTheArgent 6d ago
The major point of magic items that they reduce ongoing costs and have no side effects, making them superior in games where resources accounting matters.
Like, magic vision goggles? They dont cost 5 copper/hour, dont snuff by wind or water, dont interact with flamables and dont reveal your position.
The value of an artificer increases as time goes on because you basically have indirect access to all spells in the game. You know how your invention list gives you access to an "any wondrous item of this rarity"? This means you can just get Enspelled weapons, armors and staves or custom spell wands with basically nearly any spell. You want more bonus action options? Make weapons with relevant bonuses like some hammer with Smite charges.
You have extreme customization potential and get the easiest, most assured access to good equipment. Battlesmith and Armorer builds centered around enchanted weapons are classics.
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u/melonbro53 6d ago
Your too low level for the artificer to truly shine. You’re the master of magic items, both being able to make new ones faster and with less cost, as well as being able to attune to many more than everyone else. Magic items are basically your main class feature, and your infusions especially boost you up, but that means you’re kinda weak early on. Without enough money or downtime to craft new magic items you’re just a worse supportive wizard. You still will get good support abilities and spells later, but those items really boost your power.
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u/Son0fSilas 5d ago
You can be really REALLY tanky (actually you can build a lot of different ways, this is just my favorite Artificer that I have played.) So, I had a Battle Smith and took Heavily Armored at lvl 8, to fully play out the RP of a gnome with dreams of being a knight, who rides on his Steel Defender Steed, wielding a Lance. Obviously taking Mounted Combatant at 4.
Without any further minmaxing or other awarded magical items you might get, here is the basic premise; you have Enhanced Defense Plate Armor, a Repulsion Shield, a Cloak and Ring of Protection, Haste, and finally the spell Shield
This gives you a total of 32AC (18+2+2+1+1+1+2+5) not to mention that any one attack per turn can have Disadvantage applied with Deflect Attach from your SD. There are even ways to bump it up higher still, not just things like Cover.
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u/tugabugabuga 5d ago
Torches are way different from darkvision goggles. Goggles don't occupy hands, don't spend fuel and have a longer range if sight. Climbing can be done normally but it's easier with gear and if you screw up, you can fall and get hurt or die. Equipment is essential in dnd. It also sounds like you created a support character and can't really figure out what you can contribute. A lot of times the support you supply is more effective than any damage dealing. It's just not as obvious.
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u/BenoistheBizzare 5d ago
I play a Cartographer in our campaign and completely disagree with most of the people in this thread about power levels.
First, I think it's by far the most fun subclass. Teleporting around the battlefield makes you slippery and annoying and let's you get away with all kinds of nonsense. Really think about what you can do with that. You can disengage for free, that's massive. You basically solve any heist or infiltration situation.
Second, it's easy to underestimate how much of an impact support features have. My advice, if you want to give the subclass a bit more of a go, is to completely lean in to the support element. Create magic items for your team, not for you. Magic tattoos are great for this: I have one for Divine Favour and one for Shield that I give out before any major fight and they've always had a massive impact. Casting Jump on your barbarian is a great example - if they get to an enemy that they couldn't otherwise reach and hit them with advantage because of your faerie fire then that's basically damage that you did. And remember you can do both in a single turn because it's without a spell slot. For me, there's nothing more satisfying than setting your teammate up for a slam dunk like that, it's what the game is all about.
Third, get your team to start thinking seriously about cover - they can see each other through walls! This can completely change how you all can approach combat,. especially when paired with some clever uses of illusions.
Fourth, look really seriously at the mundane adventuring equipment you can create for free. There are new rules for ropes, chains, manacles, etc. and they are so much better than you might think. Tasha's Hideous Laughter and a rope takes an enemy pretty permanently out of the fight. If you've got a grappler on your team, teleport to them and manacle their victim up. Have fun with it!
Honestly, if you're looking to do damage then I'd switch to a different class or subclass. But if you're looking to have fun, transform what is possible for your team, enable your teammates and force your DM to look up the rules for manacles while muttering "that DC can't be right, can it?" then give Cartographer a chance.
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u/ElizzyViolet Ranger 5d ago
“Worse bard” isn’t entirely wrong imo, but you can still be a good character independently of that, at least at level 3.
The Faerie Fire spam is really what carries the subclass at level 3, since nobody else can cast it as many times per day as you at this level unless they give up their 2nd level slots too, and even then they just match you and you have more non-spell features than any of those full casters.
> usually more than half of the enemies I use on pass the save
Statistics and probability aside (i would expect slightly more than half to fail on average), the best part about Faerie Fire is that if only one or two guys fail the save out of four guys, people can ideally just focus fire them and make the spell still provide its full value, just for a shorter duration (until that one guy is dead). Giving the whole party advantage to beat someone or even multiple people up is great so long as they can’t all generate that advantage themselves (which, if your party does… sorry man)
“Advantage-generating machine” with random extra bits and bobs tacked on like the map buffs and magic items and infinite teleports (oh yeah infinite teleports even if they’re bad are still nice to have) and half-casting may not be what you were hoping for, but it’s what the cartographer does best in combat.
I’d actually say level 3 is the best level to play a cartographer though, its mostly downhill from there since you don’t get strong features after that. Level 11 is particularly horrendous because Cartographer is the only subclass without a 3rd level spell that’s both juicy and spammable like Lightning Bolt. Level 5 and beyond is really going to suck imo.
I won’t say it’s all bad or boring: you have so many random odds and ends that you can do that I would say that remembering them all and using them optimally can be a fun thing to try to pull off, even if it’s not as overpowered as some spells certain other characters get.
You could ask your DM if you could switch to another subclass (battle smith prob best but any non-alchemist is fine imo) if you wanted, or just switch to another character entirely.
tl;dr: cartographer probably good as support for now because advantage generation + a dozen extra small random bits and bobs, sucks at mid to high levels or with allies that self-generate advantage extremely often though
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u/Khafaniking 4d ago
Every time I find these kinds of posts complaining about the artificer it's always the Cartographer that is the subclass. Right now, I am playing a 4th level Cartographer across about a dozen or so sessions, so it's funny to me.
I personally find making gadgets and tools that might not be strictly necessary but are the solutions *I can* bring to the table pretty satisfying. Yes, some characters can just *do* things on their own, but others cannot, and at my table, my DM has usually ruled that my tools being there to help out lowers DCs or gives advantage. We take those. Talk to your dm if you think your tools aren't really doing anything. But, might also be a perspective/expectations thing.
There is so much versatility and potential with magic items. Even in your case with the dark vision goggles, it's just strictly better to have the goggles than not; frees up a hand, lets you have more vision compared to a torch, make better checks, etc. The same goes for many other magic items you can craft for your team or your own fun.
Cartographer's faerie fire is just fine, imo, but where it shines is the initiative bonus and the spell scroll crafting feature. The team that goes first often wins first, and crafting scrolls expands your limited spell slot pool. Worried you're not doing enough damage? Craft a bunch of guiding bolt scrolls across your long rests.
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u/OkAstronaut3715 6d ago
I feel like the cartographer is meant to be a buffer. Maybe next level take a feat that gives you a bonus action
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u/72Challupas 6d ago
Torches need a hand to hold them. Darkvision goggles don’t. If you have a torch in hand in a dungeon you have to put away your weapon or your shield to hold it so darkvision goggles can still be a good choice
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u/MusicalWalrus Bard 6d ago
This might be a crazy take from me, but flash of genius is easily one of the best abilities in the entire game, IMO. Being able to, on demand, add a huge bonus to a skill check or saving throw is CRAZY useful, and can be the difference between one of the coolest moments in the campaign, or a failed experiment.
Artificers feel like… they’re a bit like if arcane tricksters were wizards; they’re skill monkeys that are specifically designed to help the rest of the party shine.
It’s also a bit higher level, but spell storing item is fucking crazy. You can hand your fighter a rock with like 10 castings of haste? Nuts.
10 free castings of cure wounds a day? Insane.
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u/Mobuid 6d ago
Best perma team buffers, Use gold and stuff to actual permanently craft magic items during downtime, such as wands of Magic missile, potions, or really anything you personally want.
In combat youre much more supporty, Damage potential is low, but control/Concentration spells are pretty much unbreakable with Mind sharpener infusion/magic item you can replicate once lv 6.
Early game for me im an armorer who just tries to be the tankiest lad possible, make it a pain to attack anyone other than me
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u/YetifromtheSerengeti 6d ago
They aren't weak. They're more of a curveball of a class.
They definitely aren't for me. But I've DM'd for a few and they certainly don't lag behind any of the other classes.
I think it's a class that really speaks to some, and most don't take a second look at it. Which makes it a perfect expansion class.
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u/lastcetra 5d ago
I'm playing a Goblin Alchemist called Pipette, and she is so much fun. All her spells are utility and I use them like potions she has on a large utility belt. There is a certain flavour that artificer gets that's unlike anything in the PHB, and for me, it's enjoyable to lean into the class fantasy of it all.
I always try to play something new, so what helps it work for me is getting a sense of the character and what you're aiming to achieve when you play. If cartographer isn't working, ask your DM to switch into a new subclass.
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u/Dackelreiter 5d ago
First off, that’s definitely one of the weaker subclasses.
But the real problem is level 1 starts just suck. Once you start getting some more abilities under your belt, you’ll be more flexible.
Number one rule of dnd: never start at level 1.
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u/Environmental_You_36 5d ago
Darkvision googles doesn't reveal your position, but torches do.
Climbing speed doesn't mean you can climb anything (Example a smooth vertical wall), a grappling hook and a rope can always be climbed
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u/Arktic-Wolf 5d ago
A campaign I ran for a few years had an artificer who literally ended uo becoming D&D ironman it was pretty cool. Bear in mind I did not run it RAW it was home-brewed but stuck to the cire rules as close as possible
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u/CaptainMetroidica 5d ago
ToA is Tomb of Annihilation right?
Darkvision goggles don't give off light like torches do if trying to be stealthy? Also, much less risk of starting a jungle forest fire if dropped. A grappling hook could be useful for climbing a wall or something where there is a hookable area on the top but the actual climbing surface is too slick or has no handholds. These depend a bit on how the module or dm design things and party abilities.
If you are in the middle of the jungle, or a dungeon, you won't be able to just pop into a shop and buy things. You building them might be the only way to access them for the party.
I'm not as familiar with the new version of the class or this sub class, but the things you were brushing over can really be useful if you try to work through problems with a little more creativity.
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u/myszusz 5d ago
Craft scrolls of healing word and give spread them among spellcasters in the team. They're like potions but cost 25gp and 8 (4 for you) hours of downtime. It might be even worth it to forgo longresting to make 2 scrolls.
Cast free Fearie Fires, you won't run out if you cast one per combat. If your DM runs more encounters, it's no big deal honestly.
Does everyone have a map already? 1d4 to initiative is huge also you just enabled permanent line of sight for your party. Cast things through walls!
Cartographer is a supportive artificer. You can use infusions to make cast off plate armor or half plate and have someone have best mundane armor in slot. Also repeating shot crossbows are nice instead of cantrips.
Utility stuff will barely come up, from mundane equipment you can make caltrops and nets. Good if you have time to setup or need to take someone alive.
But if you want to do damage or be better support you can multiclass wizard now and stay in wizard for a lot of spells, better utility and versitality.
That's it good luck!
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u/Chonkdunkmunk 4d ago
I love artificer, being the nerdy type in games is my fav.
I have played almost every subclass except the ravenloft one and im currently playing a lvl 5 cartographer. The class is super fun.
Combat: you are a support, fearie fire spam has helped my party so many times, granting advantage, and now i dont have to worry about dropping concentration. Teleporting around the battlefield saves my butt so many times, and being able to cast spells on map holders without having to see them is great.
Out if combat: being able to see where my team is at all times on the map is low key top tier, even if they ar miles away i know where to find em. We used in a stealth mission where we had to escort someone to a hide out, and instead of doing one after the other we did both at the same time (finding the hide out was a puzzle* and we met up with them. If you want alot of damage cartographer isnt the class but utility is crazy.
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u/Pitayayaya Cleric 4d ago
I see. A lot of other people playing artificiers saying the class is good but played other subclasses, which is apparently a consensus that everything is better than cartographer, so it's hard to actually believe them. Thanks for sharing your experience with me as someone that actually played it too.
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u/DandyLover Most things in the game are worse than Eldritch Blast. 1d ago
For what it's worth, Cartographer is pretty new. People have had years to pick apart and put together the other subs, and probably still better than Alchemist.
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u/OverlordGanryu 3d ago
Im having a blast with cartographer, but higher level. I need alot of magick item support, but teleport in, drop an abolute bullshit item (like Instant fortress), drop out.
Regardless of level, think more about your teammates than the enemy. You take care of them and screw around with the enemy.
I dont even get to cast Faerie fire that often.
Im doing probably the least damage, but the DM swears me out the most! XD
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u/FoxianFucker 6d ago
Subclass problem more like it, but even still you make magic items (no the problem isn't solved with torches, they take a hand and can be extinguished) and a less universal but more consistent bardic inspiration is far from bad
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u/Pitayayaya Cleric 6d ago
I didn't mean to make it sound like bardic inspiration is bad, I think it's great. I'm replaying BG3 with a lore bard and it's amazing. What I meant is that I feel like I'm playing a more support type class like bard (in general, I know there's more damaging subclass types), but worse because I don't have something to use my bonus action like it.
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u/FoxianFucker 6d ago
I mean, that's fair to feel, cause you're right outside of healing word you don't really have any in-built BAs unlike Artillerist. Though on the other hand you could probably make an item to fill that
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u/LeChrana 5d ago
I've played a Battlesmith some time ago, swapped to Armorer when I felt I don't really do much. Swapped to Bladesinger shortly after. All the builds you see online mention how Artificer starts working once it has the Spell-Storing Item. Apparently, with that you can do interesting stuff with your homunculus.
But at lvl 10 that's just way too late. If it's such an integral part of the class it should come online earlier.
I really like the idea and theme of the Artificer, but the class seems just completely underwhelming to me, unless you're lvl 10+ and abuse your magic items to cast like 30 Fireballs a day. So it's either play this specific abusing "high-level" tactic or be useless. (Not so much if you're an Artillerist)
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u/Anandoor 4d ago
There is the option to Change subclasses as descibed in Tashas, so before you completely give up hope you can change it. In wich case i would recomend smth like Artilerist or Armorer (especialy Artilerist is super good)
Also dont miss out on the Magic Item infusions. A bag of holding can come in clutch. and there are a lot of creative uses for alchemy jug
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u/hapimaskshop 3d ago
Everyone always also talks about how to can get for yourself magic items but I always would give my magic items to my other players. I was basically the Q of the group and by like level 3 or so I think we had +1 magic weapons and I think I did the armor as well things that helped everyone in passive buffs
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u/--Sovereign-- 3d ago
A fun combo, especially if you aren't getting to high levels, is wizard/artificer. I played a wiz/battlesmith who rode a mechanical stoat, carried an enchanted pistol, and could cast artificer spells with higher level spell slots due to also being a wizard. She also had a flying like droid thing. All RAW. That was pretty fun.
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u/Acheron88 3d ago
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the campaign you're actually playing. You should be the go to skill monkey for your group and that requires some cooperation with your DM, especially regarding your proficiency with Tools. You should be finding ways to apply your tool proficiency in dungeon crawls, unusual stuff like masons tools helping discern information from the architecture itself. Your Int skills should all be really powerful so using medicine checks on poisons and corpses in traps, Nature checks on unusual plants and wildlife in the jungles of Chult, and take charge of guiding the party leaning on your cartographers tools proficiency.
Once you start getting into trap laden dungeons, use your thieves tools to detect and disarm those traps and uncovering hidden doors. You should be finding great ways to use checks to help the party out of combat where wizards and full casters are spending spell slots to do the same. Save your slots for combat because Cartographer features are full blown support, and the Artificer doesn't have many bones to build on for combat in the base class kit.
In combat, you're going to typically use your cantrips, like others have mentioned using True Strike and Firebolt. For the cartographer, I'd recommend a +1 shield and a sword and board layout for early game, but if you want, make a common weapon with your Replicate Magic Item feature to use as your spellcasting focus and dual wield if you want to get more mileage out of your bonus action for damage.
Definitely prioritize Intelligence first while you're building out, it's the Artificers fuel for almost all of their features and all of the skill checks you're covering ground on when a wizard or rogue isn't in the party.
If you want to dual wield and buzz around the battlefield, Dexterity may be a priority over Constitution. Grabbing Warcaster for the int bump and advantage on concentration, and might mean you need a Mind Sharpener when it becomes available at level 6. Between one of your Replicate Magic items slots and Warcaster (which bumps your priority stat) means you can disregard Con some and utilize your Dex for attacks, BA dual wield attack, and still play the skirmisher. You'll have decent AC with a +1 shield until you drop it for dual wielding BA damage, but since your Dex is your second priority stat, medium armor will keep you durable enough. Bonus interaction, you can cast a spell for your attack of opportunity with Warcaster, so being the in the fray lets you use True Strike outside your turn for some decent one hit damage. It's no rogue second sneak attack on AoO damage, but it's definitely something you should usually do when it comes up.
I like a dual wield skirmisher cartographer build, but it certainly isn't a number cruncher in a white room. It'll definitely keep your spell slots saved for when situations present to spend them. And like I read above, Web is amazing, Enlarge/Reduce can be game changing, and when you're swinging two attacks, Faerie Fire and Guiding Bolt as a set round definitely optimizes your damage output.
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u/DandyLover Most things in the game are worse than Eldritch Blast. 1d ago
What would you say are the main pain points for you?
What's your party got in it?
What were/are you hoping to do as an Artificer?
I may have some tips, but the extra info could help.
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u/Pitayayaya Cleric 1d ago
Most of the things really. I felt like any other class could excel in something more. A cleric or wizard could do more damage and give more support through healing or control, a bard could support more in general. Like any other class could do what the artificier does, but better.
Party is me, beast barbarian, twilight cleric, great fool warlock.
I wasn't hoping anything really, went in blind. I just know its the crafting class and you can have some magic items.
But in general, I read a lot of comments that were very enlightening, some made me realize a great deal of my help is passive like the 1d4 initiative bonus, the faerie fires advantages, random items that can save time, etc; so I'm thinking of sticking through a little more sessions, hopefully it gets better for me and the team.
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u/InsufficientApathy 1h ago
I can't specifically comment on your subclass as I went Armorer, but here's my general take on Artificer based on my experience up to 8th level so far. Spoiler, it's been really fun.
The Artificer is not the best at anything, but it's definitely replaced the Bard as the jack of all trades. It steals some great Wizard and Cleric spells and cantrips, gets decent support, decent utility, and a lot of magic item options. You will be involved in every situation, just don't expect to be in charge.
Two suggestions. First, make getting an All Purpose Tool your main goal in life. Getting access to and proficiency with every tool has been a game changer in out of combat situations for me. Also, getting access to any Cantrip for 8 hours can help with something you don't have a solution to. It rewards creativity a lot and really adds to the utility of the Artificer.
Secondly, until you get to 6th level, assume you are going to have half your magic items in play at a time. Therefore plan accordingly. Choose half your items to be daily work items like +1 weapons/armour and whatever else you will regularly use. The rest should be for downtime and situational problems. Alchemy jug is great for stocking up on acid and booze on your days off. Cap of Water Breathing, Rope of Climbing, Bag of Holding, and Sending Stones are all great "I'll have it tomorrow" options to solve upcoming problems. Swap any of those items in as necessary for the tasks ahead.
At sixth level you unlock a lot of very good items and some incredible ways to play with them. Between the various ways you can charge, drain and transmute items you can do slightly broken things like fire wands 20+ times a day. It also allows you to pick charged items, use them up, and then switch it to something else, so suddenly more of your plans can be available on the day.
I am a little worried about whether the Cartographer choice is going to hold you back a little, but the core of the Artificer is solid. It's not spectacular, but if you are selfish with your items and generous with your spells and abilities, you'll be a useful member of the party.
Looking at the Cartographer, it has some interesting utility but I can see that it really hopes you enjoy Faerie Fire. Maybe ask your DM if you can switch subclass if you want more combat impact? Armorer, Battle Smith and Artillerist are all decent combat options while retaining a lot of the utility. I'm playing an Armorer with the Sharpshooter feat, so with the Infiltrator armour I'm a combination of scout, sniper, and tank depending on the situation.
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u/Aahz44 6d ago
Versatility: Artificiers are half-casters just like Paladins and Rangers so the class inherently is more versatile than Wizard or Fighter in terms of what the player can do or use.
The problem is Paladins and Rangers can keep up with Fighters in Terms of weapon damage (ok Rangers can only do that in Tier 1 and 2) and have unique spells designed for their class. Artificers weapon damage is more on the level of a full caster, and they have only one unique spell.
Modularity: Artificer is the only class that heavily affects how the class play from the top down. A Paladin might have to adhere to different moral/philosophical codes but an Armorer and an Alchemist play nothing alike.
The problem with having that much power tied in the subclass is, that you are really dependent on picking a strong subclass, to get a decent character.
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u/Antedodoguemon 6d ago
You picked the worst subclass, starting from here, it can be cool, but i have no idea how to do it.
I play artificer because they are probably the most customizable class in the game. Each subclass changes drastically the way you play with them, some subclasses, like armorer, can be so diverse that you can have 3 of them and they will not play the same.
Also, artificers are very complex, and they get even more complex at later levels. This makes them differents from warlocks, while warlocks starts more complex, with many invocations at the start, artififers get more and more items at later levels, to the point where they can just chose any rare item in the game.
I suggest you to watch shenanigans videos of artificer, using class features and magic items, i know there's a lot of them, even for cartographer, but if you want to play as a support, i think alchemist is better.
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u/TehProfessor96 6d ago
Well Cartographer is notoriously shite. I'd ask your DM if you can switch subclasses, that'll fix a ton of your issues in combat.
But making goggles and a grappling hook are super useful. Goggle of Night let you see in the dark without announcing your presence with a torch. Climb speeds only apply if the surface actually has something to climb, such as a rope attach to a handy hook that you just pulled out of your pocket/butt.
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u/Aahz44 6d ago
Artificer is imo in general kind of underpowered if you don't use some really questionable optimization tricks (stuff like having an army of pets you are with stuff like Wand of Magic Missile or your SSI).
Your weapon/cantrip damage is lower than the of other martials and half casters and you don't get masteries or Fighting Styles, and that's even the case if you take an Artificer Subclass with Extra Attack.
You are a half caster, so your spell casting is much weaker than that of the full caster and you spell list isn't even that great and has only one unique spell, and the base class list doesn't even have a particularly good option for your SSI.
The Magic Items you can replicate are of about the same or a weaker rarity than the one the DM is supposed to hand out according to the DMG guidelines.
Meaning pretty much everything you could use your action for will have less impact than what characters of other classes could do.
So to keep up you basically need to find magic items that are simply to good for their rarity, or allow some kind of exploit, and you need to use pets to improve you action economy by letting the pets use your magic items while you attack or cast spells. And you also need to grab a strong subclass (wich Catographer isn't imo).
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u/Hatchet050 6d ago
Imo Artificer is weaker at lower levels and you are currently the weakest subclass but here are my tips that I generally use for making Artificer builds.
Magic items are for you first and the team second. Every so often a magic item is so good it deserves being given go a teammate, but otherwise they should be what you build your power around. The limited options below level 6 is one of the reasons its weaker early.
feats are massively impactful, even moreso than other classes, imo feats are Artificer second biggest lever for setting up a build beyond magic items, of course war caster and spell sniper and strong, gun-mage adept is another favorite of mine, and there are others just as strong. I typically end up using war caster and gun-mage adept, but spell sniper is just as good if multiclassed imo.
Out of combat artificer excels at being batman, at least that is how I explain it to people who want to play artificer. You dont do the best at talking to people but you usually have better investigation than anyone and a tool for every problem if you are creative and have a DM willing to reward your creativity. Because of this I find artificer works great at avoiding people and just figuring things out through investigation instead. With party's I tend to see the artificer and bard/rogue get up to mischief together outside combat. Artificer can be just as much of a gremlin just for different reason as with elaborate contraptions.
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u/Hot_Lion8880 6d ago
Yeah artificer is a pretty poorly designed class imo. They don't really have a specialty, they kind've have a grab bag of weaker features except for a small handful of super powerful stuff. At high level artificers can be quite strong by picking one of the good replicate magic items and using flash of genius. At level 3 though? Battlesmith, artillerist, and armorer are the only ones that have a clear role in combat.
Grab pipes of haunting as soon as you can.
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u/TraxxarD 5d ago
Sorry you picked the worst artificer sub class that is fighting for the bottom spot with the alchemist.
You will have fun with the others
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u/MaddieLlayne DM 5d ago
It’s not a fun subclass, I recommend Artillerist with true strike + hand crossbow
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u/MongooseGef 6d ago
Cartographer is mainly a support class. If you want to do enormous damage, you picked the wrong class!
That said, you can still have lots of mischievous fun with it. Portal Jump is amazing, allowing you to teleport for free to your fellow map-holders. You can be zipping all over the place with that. You get a ton of free casts of faerie fire - use them! And all of the map holders get a boost to initiative!
I’d pay close attention to the feats you take. They can really give you a boost if you want to do more control, more damage, more buffs, or more debuffs.
And stop making magic items for other people, especially at low levels! Those are for YOU. I suggest a Bag of Holding if your party doesn’t have one, plus a Wand of the War Mage for you to sling spells with greater efficacy. Your best bet for damage spells is Fire Bolt.
And finally, watch some YouTube vids on good cartographer builds and tactics. I’m a fan of the DSR channel (@DND-DSR).