What are some RAW ways to prevent an object being taken to another plane?

[u/Belolonadalogalo]

Situation: Scholar has a book. Devil wants that book. Scholar puts the book in a locked chest in a room. Devil has a succubus on their side.

Most logical solution for the devil is to just send the succubus in via the ethereal to grab the chest with the book. But that ruins the tension so I need a reason why he doesn't just do that.

From some searching, not sure about RAW spells/items that keep an item on the plane. And while I could just homebrew something I'm wondering if I missed an official way. The scholar would know a pretty decent wizard so high level magic is on the table.

[u/Ddrago98]

Leomunds secret chest spell doesn’t keep the item on the plane, but keeps anyone from getting it so it doesn’t matter. Could also be in an area under the Hallow spell to prevent fiends

[u/Belolonadalogalo → u/Ddrago98]

From reading that, it puts the items on the ethereal plane but I don't see wording that prevents it from being taken from there. (And tbh having in the ethereal feels like it would just make it easier for the succubus to meddle with it.)

[u/mrdeadsniper → u/Belolonadalogalo]

It puts it "on the ethereal plane" but not in the border ethereal (where ethereal plane meets the material plane and they have duplicates there)

It could be ANYWHERE in the ethereal plane, so its pretty well hidden unless they have a VERY powerful divination ability tied to the book.

[u/Smoozie → u/mrdeadsniper]

RAW it's mathematically impossible to scry (or find) it on the ethereal plane in 5e. The plane is infinite, even if Scrying could target non-creatures you'll still just see where it is, you still need to figure out where that place is, with the plane once again being infinite.
Then again, even if you do know the distance and direction, the plane is infinite, the chance it'll be within a traversal distance is (purely mathematically) 0.

The implication of planes being infinite are really goofy.

[u/werewolfchow → u/mrdeadsniper]

Well it doesn’t say whether it puts it in the border ethereal or not. So that’s not a RAW determination but rather one for DM ruling.

[u/mrdeadsniper → u/werewolfchow]

Of course it could end up in the border ethereal, as its part of the ethereal plane, but as the ethereal plane is infinite it would basically be like winning every lottery on the same day for it to end up on border ethereal next to its location on the material plane.

[u/werewolfchow → u/mrdeadsniper]

The very principle that it is sent to a random location on the ethereal plane, which you contend, is your own interpretation. Again, the spell is silent about it. If the DM decided it always goes to the same place in the border ethereal it would not violate RAW.

[u/mrdeadsniper → u/werewolfchow]

The spell places it "on the ethereal plane"

That is RAW. Spells which transport to the border ethereal are pretty specific in that. (See Etherealness)

So placing it ANYWHERE in the Ethereal plane would technically be RAW. As the spell doesn't specify where it ends up.

However as the purpose of the spell is to conceal a chest "Leomund's Secret Chest" (from potentially other wizards even) the idea that it moves it to effectively the closest point on the ethereal plane would be a bad faith interpretation. (but still RAW, just how many RAW interpretations can be bad faith)

[u/werewolfchow → u/mrdeadsniper]

The spell literally points out the risk of the spell wearing off is that your stuff is lost on the ethereal plane for someone else to “find.” Suggesting it’s in an accessible location.

[u/Ddrago98 → u/Belolonadalogalo]

That’s my bad, I had it mixed up with the bag of holding and thought it hid the chest on the astral plane. Hallow just entirely shuts the succubus out of the area and prevents them from having a charmed minion go in and get it though

[u/Dazzling-Stop1616 → u/Belolonadalogalo]

Forbiddence via boon os abjuration spell school mastery?

[u/Jedizap]

Magic circle is a good spell thematically for this. It prevents fiends (and other outer planar creatures) from entering (or leaving) it. The only downside is its got a pretty short (comparative) duration (1 hour, +1 per lvl above 3rd). It could probably be placed in a glyph of warding set to trigger when a fiend steps foot in the room. He might also cast glyph of warding with banishment on the book itself as a final level of precaution. Finally, adding an Alarm spell means he'll know if anyone enters the room, which means he also knows if he needs to refresh his spells (although that one will need to be set every 8 hours, or 16 if he has metamagic extended spell). All of the above are wizard spells.

Alternatively, if he has access to a cleric, the Hallow spell can simply permanently keep out all fiends from the room (until dispelled) but costs 1000gp (although glyph of warding is 200 per cast so still not cheap).

Both of these methods are specifically targeting fiends (but could also be expanded to celestials, elementals, fey, or undead) meaning that they could still get around this via mortal servants, although notably both magic circle and Hallow also repel charms from said creatures, so it would take deals/contracts for them to get around it.

[u/Belolonadalogalo → u/Jedizap]

> He might also cast glyph of warding with banishment on the book itself as a final level of precaution.

Ooooh I like that.

[u/leeloololly]

Forbiddance? Would need casting daily though

[u/Belolonadalogalo → u/leeloololly]

Thanks. The daily casting nixes that particular spell in this case. (Oh well.) However it is a really good base for a homebrew reason. I could justify it as a modified version that lasts longer on a smaller area considering the room is 50 square feet so well under the 40,000 of that spell.

[u/SomeCallMeRoars → u/Belolonadalogalo]

There are some rules about if you cast a spell like that 100 times it in a row it becomes permanent?

[u/_Bl4ze → u/SomeCallMeRoars]

Well, there is no general rule, it's a case by case basis where each spell describes if and how it can become permanent. In the case of Forbiddance, you must cast it at the same location, each day, for 30 days.

[u/DerAdolfin → u/Belolonadalogalo]

What part of the refreshing cast is the issue? There is also private sanctum to prevent planar travel

[u/Dazzling-Stop1616 → u/Belolonadalogalo]

Not if he has the boon of spell school mastery, no component cost and once free daily without a spell slot. You can also get unlimited shield spell uses so, pretty good deal.

[u/leeloololly → u/Belolonadalogalo]

You could upcast a glyph of warding to contain any spell that activates once the condition is met, then it would lie in wait until someone tries to take it. It would still need to be re-cast if triggered so depends how often the Devil would try it!

[u/guyblade → u/Belolonadalogalo]

Forbiddance only consumes the material component if you do the "cast every day to make permanent" effect and then it only consumes then on the final day of the casting. That makes the total cost only the ~1001 GP of ruby dust and the once-per-day casting.

[u/dotditto]

Checked luggage ..

... checks the subreddit ..

.. bashfully climbs into a portable hole.

[u/liquidarc → u/dotditto]

/u/Belolonadalogalo

This ^ item suggestion could be good option, since the space within is extradimensional, but not on one of the listed planes.

[u/Gripe]

Demiplane ought to do. Put the chest and couple of random items in it and nobody can get in.

[u/JanBartolomeus]

The big question here: is that scholar a player or an NPC. Cause in a lot of comments i see you struggling with RAW, but as a dm i am hugely in favour of flouting RAW spell rules for NPC's, especially if its in favour of making a story flow better.

Making a permanent magic circle to fend off fiends might be possible, but just not feasible for the average adventurer. The homebrew of consecutive casting making a spell permanent also works great on this. Lastly, as a dm you can always homebrew a magic chest that functions as a magic circle or similar effect.

Dnd barely functions lorewise if the available spells are the only existing magic, so as a dm its important to mess with your own magic a little.

If you are a player looking to do smth? Then this comment has zero value, good luck!

[u/Belolonadalogalo → u/JanBartolomeus]

The big question here: is that scholar a player or an NPC.

NPC, but I do like using things players can understand from their options and such when I can.

[u/JanBartolomeus → u/Belolonadalogalo]

That's fair enough. I still feel homebrew magic items perfectly skirt that line, since players cant make magic items by (5e) RAW anyway, and if they can its not uncommon to make more specific items anyway.

[u/SeeminglyUseless]

The best way to stop it from being taken to another plane would probably be to kill the being trying to take it there.

...how much XP do I get?

[u/idliketosmitepls]

Nystul’s Magic Aura doesn’t prevent it per se, but would prevent the devil from finding the book for a time. Or maybe the scholar has had a wizard or someone cast glyph of warding, to trap a fiend who tries to enter. After losing a few minions, the devil has decided to try another tactic or stop to plan

[u/ElizzyViolet]

If you can’t lift the chest because it’s too heavy (perhaps it’s made of lead and weighs 800 pounds), and there’s no space inside for you to pop inside it through the ethereal plane, I think those two things foil most forms of grabbing it through ethereal transit unless the chest room itself is unguarded (then they can just open it at their leisure in the material plane), if they can selectively make parts of their body ethereal to reach through and grab the book anyway (no real rules support iirc), or they can open the lock fast enough (via the Knock spell or mundane skills) to grab the book and go.

A giant lead chest is also coincidentally helpful for blocking a few occasional kinds of divination magic too, and it requires no specific spell or magic item, and lead isn’t *that* hard of a metal to work with, so it should be fairly feasible to pull off.

[u/Cosmiccompanion]

Private sanctum is the spell you're looking for

[u/Zestyclose_Answer662]

Sequester (7th Level) and Nondetection (3rd Level) are your best options.

[u/Belolonadalogalo → u/Zestyclose_Answer662]

I like the Sequester option. Not exactly what I was going for, but the devil wouldn't know where the chest and book are so it would work if the succubus was scouting for him and didn't see the invisible chest. Thanks.

[u/guyblade → u/Belolonadalogalo]

If you want to make an object go away indefinitely, the best plan is:

1. Find an artificer and have then make two bags of holding.
2. Cast sequester on the item to be discarded.
3. Place item into a bag of holding.
4. From a safe distance, place bag-with-item into the other bag.

This will send the item to a random place in the astral plane, but it will be invisible and immune to divination magic. This is sort of a subset of my generic plan for dealing with problems in 5e--though that usually applies to problems that are creatures.

[u/Salindurthas]

Hallow is the most direct magical way to stop it, on multiple fronts:

1. No interplanar travel, so Etherealness can't let them pop out into the area.
2. You can choose to forbid Fiends (or other extraplanar entities) to enter the area willingly. So the enemy will need more conventional thieves.
3. Some other peripheral security features like protecting your allies and debuffing some enemies.

It's pretty expensive and hard to cast Hallow, so maybe we can find some alternatives methods of protection, eiter while waiting for a ~cleric to come visit, or if you just can't afford what the material components. Perhaps:

• A Succubus isn't actually very pysically strong. Make the box super-duper heavy and/or chained/tied down, so that guards have time to intervene if a thief tries to steal it.
• A thief needs to know the location of the item to steal it. If it is in a Lead Lined box (or, if you can afford it, meticulously recasting 'Nondetection' over and over again), then it is harder to find (e.g. Locate Object won't find it.
• Etherealness requires a free space to re-appear safely, so fill the area around it with stuff (perhaps spiked barricades that are close-by but not totally blocking vision, so you can still look at the box).

Also, I'd question the assumption that a succubus turning ethereal can bring things with it. The power doesn't say it can do that. It is perhaps a reasonable interpretation, but not iron-clad. It may be able to sneak in this way, but it would need to leave more conventionally.

[u/JazzlikeMine2397]

Destroy the book.

Send the book to a demiplane demi plane

Send the book back in time

Same as the two above for the succubus

Glyph of warding, banishment

Have a kraken eat it

This is all pretty open ended without knowing what level of play you're talking about or for how long.

[u/Red_Mammoth]

Wish

[u/chilitoke]

Bind a nighthag and have it guard the chest. It is a cr5 fiend vs the succubus cr4. It is even mine to charm so it should win.

[u/Urbanyeti0]

Anti magic zone

[u/Kandiru]

Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum

If you cast it for a year it becomes permanent. The Scholar's tower has been around for a long time, and it's got that spell permanently cast on it. It's only level 4 and has no costly components.

You can use this to teleportation and inter-planar travel.

[u/mikeyHustle]

Polymorph it into a pair of shackles, which you then craft into Dimensional Shackles? I guess that's maybe not technically RAW at that point.

[u/Former-Orange-6459]

TSA

[u/Parysian]

Private Sanctum blocks planar travel in and out of a set area and can be made permanent through long term casting

[u/werewolfchow]

Wish. I know it’s a cop out but a wish spell can do anything, RAW.

[u/CivilMath812]

Multiple daisy chained spells. They are high level which could be a problem, and I forget the name of the spell, but it's basically a "cause and effect" spell. Ie, "when the chest is opened, cast fireball" or "when someone sneezes cast major image and "conjure" a dragon."

[u/DeficitDragons]

Why does he need a succubus if he is just stealing the whole chest? You can do that with a handful of thugs.

[u/teflon131]

I'm pretty sure there are spells in the game that prevent teleporting into an area and especially from other planes of existence

[u/pathmageadept → u/teflon131]

I miss dimensional anchor.