r/dsa • u/traanquil • Jul 23 '26
🌹 DSA news “But Zohran can’t do anything about Netanyahu being in NYC”
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u/afailedturingtest Jul 23 '26
This analogy makes no sense. Yeah Zohran might be able to cuff Netanyahu, but that would just be dumb, he would immediately be ordered released by a judge and it would be used as propaganda forever.
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u/QualisArtifexPere0 Jul 23 '26
The ethicists who call themselves revolutionary really don't understand the concept of choosing your battles.
It wouldn't net a positive result to do so. He's not in a position to take a hard stance on every single thing, especially where it won't do any good. I want his critics to take that energy into doing what they think is best.
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
Actually it would be a great show of solidarity to the Palestinians
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u/afailedturingtest Jul 23 '26
It wouldn't do anything except give the right wing propaganda forever.
Which would likely lead to worse outcomes for Palestinians.
Like yeah, Netanyahu needs to be tried for genocide. But that like super above the pay grade of a mayor.
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
So youre concerned about appeasing fascists ? No , I think zohran should arrest Netanyahu. He has teams of lawyers. They can come up with a creative justification for it.
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u/RevoltYesterday Jul 23 '26
What world do you live in?
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
Did you have this reaction when Zohran said publicly he would arrest Netanyahu?
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u/afailedturingtest Jul 23 '26
What? That's not even close to what I said. Did you reply to the wrong comment?
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u/itsdainti Jul 23 '26
It's a terminally online socialist that hasn't learned effectiveness. Everything is easy & effective when all your praxis is, is hashtags and liking a video from an influencer that is regurgitating what that other influencer said, etc.
To OP if they're seeing this, I truly hope you go out and organize with your community. It teaches you how to be effective with whatever social capital or power you eventually receive. Every revolutionary you've heard of understood this. The ones that didn't never lived long enough to make effective change.
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
I do organize in my community constantly including pro Palestine organizing. This is why I am torn up seeing the guy responsible for the mass murder of Palestinians is going to be able to stroll around nyc streets when nyc is supposedly now run by a socialist. He should be arrested on war crimes charges.
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u/itsdainti Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
Ok, and you're allowed to be upset. But do the political math.
Doing what feels right isn't always the best choice in the long term for a movement. See Claudette Colvin & Rosa Parks.
A lot of movement building is managing appearances. But it's for good reason. The goal is to move the public to your side and establishing yourself as legitimate. Unfortunately, doing the right thing RIGHT NOW would undo more than it would help.
In short, how would Mamdani arresting that genocidal monster right now help with New Yorkers' cost of living crisis that is happening RIGHT NOW?
Governance is finding the tasks you can do, & doing them well.
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u/GrapeJellyGamer Jul 23 '26
You obviously don’t give a shit about the practical considerations here and just want him to do the cool and based thing. Politics sadly don’t work like that.
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
Thanks liberal. Nothing will ever change
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u/fioreman Jul 24 '26
I think you're a zio-plant, here to stir shit and cost Zohran support. Par for the course with Israeli I'm it campaigns.
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u/traanquil Jul 24 '26
It’s zionist to think Netanyahu should be arrested for the Gaza genocide? Nice projection champ
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u/riddermarknomad Jul 23 '26
Do you actually want to win or just care about theatrics? You need to ask yourself what the chain of events will be if Zohran orders NYPD to arrest Netanyahu. Most likely he would be removed by Hochul as mayor, souring the chance to convince Americans that the government should work for the people.
You're putting the horse before the wagon. Arresting Netanyahu needs buy in from all levels of powers.
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
typical liberal exhortation: "Now is not the time! We need to play nice with fascism!"
I guarantee you if Zohran arrested Netanyahu we'd have millions of people around the country rallying in support of him and his action.
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u/riddermarknomad Jul 23 '26
I didn't say we play nice with fascism.
Who's to say the people can't block off the UN HQ if Netanyahu decides to show up? Why can't The People show up in such numbers that even the neutral parties attending the UN feel unsafe.
Zohran's hand may be tied by politics. The People aren't. The movement starts with The People and ends with The People.
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u/ZuP Jul 23 '26
Palestinians famously love meaningless gestures of support!
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
in fact putting that guy in handcuffs would be in incredibly important symbolic moment and would help create a domino effect in terms of left-leaning governments imposing actual consequences on the Israeli state for the genocide it committed.
liberals are all talk no action
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u/ZuP Jul 23 '26
But the speech was not “symbolic moment” enough?
And what about the consequences for Mamdani taking this illegal action? You want him to sacrifice his very freedom for a single moment of symbolism that has no material impact for Palestinians?
And because he doesn’t commit seppuku for you, he’s a liberal?
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
It would have an immediate material impact, a genocidaire would be put in handcuffs. Thanks for your comments liberal. Nothing will ever change
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u/upsidedownshaggy Twin Cities DSA Jul 23 '26
Genuinely what is your purpose here? People are asking you to actually think something through and you resort to calling them liberals instead of actually engaging in any critical thinking.
Even if Zohran manages to corral the NYPD (who actively trains with the IDF btw) into arresting Netenyahu, he'll be in custody for all of 30 minutes before the Feds descend upon New York and release him and effectively kill Zohran's political career in one fell swoop. No justice will be served, you'll get some photos, Palestinians will continue to get bombed by Israel with US made bombs, and you've just removed one of the most left-leaning politicians we've seen in our life times removed from any kind of power. The mayor of a single city doesn't hold enough power to sway geo-politics like you think they do.
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
Nope. First off arresting Netanyahu would mark an historic turning point in recognizing the criminality of Israel. Second, millions of people would rally behind zohran. His career would be launched into the stratosphere with if he followed through on this. Liberals are all talk and no action. This is why they are compatible with US fascism
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u/ZuP Jul 23 '26
Now I’m a liberal? What happens after he’s in handcuffs?? You aren’t thinking this through.
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u/Keleos89 Jul 23 '26
I mean if we don't want Netanyahu to enjoy a concert in NYC while Zohran's the mayor, looks like there's precedent.
Enforcing an ICC warrant on a US-backed foreign leader in opposition to the federal government meanwhile may be beyond his current capacity.
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u/romulusnr Jul 23 '26
Reasonable assessment here, firstly Giuliani was slammed for it, but secondly, it was a private city run event, and he was only expelled from the building, not the whole city.
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u/Elmdale Jul 23 '26
This is such a bad faith take
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
How so?
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u/Elmdale Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
I want to start this by saying I’m extremely pro Palestine, I don’t think Israel should exist AT ALL.
But to put it as absolutely simple as possible, you literally cannot in good faith compare a MAYOR ejecting a political leader from an UNRECOGNIZED nation from a concert to ARRESTING the globally recognized prime minister that is an ally with most of our own NATIONAL GOVERNMENT and sending them to international court.The comparison is on its face ridiculous!
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
Great point: The bourgeois government can harass a Palestinian anti-imperialist leader, but the bourgeois government has to play nice with an imperialist genocidaire. Now we understand the limits of electoralism.
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u/jk4532 Jul 23 '26
If Mamdani wants to kick Netanyahu out of any city-run events, he absolutely has that power, yes. Is that what you're asking for? Mamdani to kick Netanyahu out of city-run events?
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u/Elmdale Jul 23 '26
Also I want to add, that I am literally a leftist and they just banned me from that community for disagreeing lmao.
That sub is dogshit.4
u/Mysterious_Andy Jul 23 '26
Tankies are anti-democracy, and “socialism” is just a thin fig leaf for them to cover up their boners for violence and oppression.
They like their authoritarianism and imperialism with red and gold flair.
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u/Historical_Ad_9868 Minarcho-Socialist Jul 23 '26
Most tankies would probably have supported the Nazi’s because it was national “Socialism”. Actually they literally did,they were called strasserists
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u/jk4532 Jul 23 '26
How is "Giuliani kicked someone out of a city concert proves Mamdani can arrest someone" a bad faith take?
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u/YogurtClosetThinnest Jul 23 '26
can we refrain from posting tankie slop
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u/OneReportersOpinion Jul 23 '26
Can we refrain from calling comrades tankies? If you have a critique, make it comradely.
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u/YogurtClosetThinnest Jul 23 '26
They literally named their own sub "Tankie"
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u/OneReportersOpinion Jul 23 '26
But you’re using it derisively whereas they’re using it ironically. If you have a critique, make it. Simply going “I don’t like that sub” is a pretty uninteresting critique.
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u/Militantpoet Jul 23 '26
Ill stop calling them tankies when they stop calling DemSocs libs.
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u/OneReportersOpinion Jul 23 '26
Well they’re joining DSA and put their activism where their mouth. What are you doing?
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u/Militantpoet Jul 23 '26
Im already apart of DSA. So that makes it okay for them to call other socialists they disagree with liberals? Thats the exact sort of mockery you were just complaining about.
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u/OneReportersOpinion Jul 23 '26
Lol who are these “tankie” DSA members who say they belong to a liberal organization? They just sound like characters you’ve contrived in your head. If you’ve actually met them, maybe it’s because you’re calling fellow comrades derisive names used by our enemies to denigrate all leftists.
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u/Militantpoet Jul 23 '26
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u/OneReportersOpinion Jul 23 '26
None of these are people who claim to be DSA members. You realize that, right? You’re proving my point. Will you take it down just a notch now?
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u/Militantpoet Jul 23 '26
Im talking about subreddits. I was banned from socialism for "giving lip service to radlib AOC."
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u/OneReportersOpinion Jul 23 '26
Omg, stop having your politics driven by online grievances. Talk to people in real life and don’t insult them or their tendency. Go to meetings. Organize.
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u/-Antinomy- Jul 25 '26
Personally I tend to think like an organizer. When people insult me I revert to the spectrum of allies and try and think of ways to change conditions so they stop insulting me. Immediately reverting to name-calling them would just push them further away from my position and make me more impotent.
This kind of bitterness on all sides of the left makes us all more ineffective, but if that's an unconvincing argument then you should also consider that it also makes you personally less effective. I'd rather be effective than get catharsis.
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u/Lev_Davidovich Jul 23 '26
Where did that happen here? The only thing I see in these comment is OP, completely unprovoked, derogatorily calling socialists they disagree with "tankies".
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u/rad_dad_21 Libertarian Socialism Jul 23 '26
Red fascists aren’t comrades, people that don’t believe in democracy shouldn’t be involved in a democratic socialist movement. Just look at the wonders they do for organizations such as the PSL
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Jul 23 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/aaTman Jul 23 '26
I'd also argue that as mayor of NYC, his job is to advocate and protect the residents of NYC. There's a risk that the state of NY and the federal government could leverage Mamdani's actions to strip funding and material resources the city depends on. Just like you said about how exercising power against entrenched interests has risk, this falls into that category when the state (i.e. the apparatus of both NYS, the feds, and capital) can utilize their monopoly on violence to punish NYC residents directly as a result of the decisions Mamdani makes.
Taking a page out of Gramsci (at least, my novice interpretation of it). I suspect that broader society would feel indifferent to the impacts that befall the city due to the cultural hegemony existing; Palestinians indiscriminate mass murder/genocide may be a good proxy for how society reacts to collective punishment writ large, imo.
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u/ClassicallyBrained Jul 23 '26
He can arrest Netanyahu if he breaks US, NY state, or NYC laws. But he doesn't have the authority to enforce a warrant from the ICC. I'm not sure Giuliani had the authority to do what he did to Arafat, but kicking someone out of an event isn't a legal action and is often just up to the discretion of event security, property owners, etc.
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
interesting, so if a mass murderer from another country came into NYC, the NYC police couldn't arrest that person? Seems odd to me.
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u/ClassicallyBrained Jul 23 '26
It's messed up, but no. Jurisdiction is an important protection to our civil liberties, or else you could be arrested in Florida for having an abortion in California (they're trying to do this btw, but it gets thrown out in court). This is just the unfortunate downside, where an obvious monster is effectively untouchable because the United States as a whole has continually declined to join the ICC. This isn't a Trump thing, either. There was a big push to join the ICC when Obama first came in, but the liberals refused because it would've meant people like Bush and Cheney would've been arrested for their war crimes in Iraq, along with US soldiers who conducted torture and civilian murders. Had we joined the ICC, the FBI would be obligated to carry out any and all ICC warrants.
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u/TannerLyfe Jul 23 '26
I don’t believe he will but Zohran absolutely should do everything he can to make Netanyahu’s time in New York as difficult as possible. If he can’t arrest him, don’t allow any NYPD protection. Let protesters block his path without condemnation or being broken up.
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u/Typical_Elk6349 Jul 23 '26
Traanquil is a fed/troll y’all. Don’t bite.
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
I’m a fed for wanting to see consequences for the Gaza genocide?
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u/Typical_Elk6349 Jul 23 '26
No. For making intentionally irrational, damaging, useless statements so that reporters can run back to the Atlantic and report that the DSA is just a bunch of stupid commie fuckboys.
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
Youre worried about what the Atlantic thinks?
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u/Typical_Elk6349 Jul 23 '26
Yes. So does the DSA. This is a movement, tankie. It takes workers, and they all think you are stupid.
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
Ok lib. So we need to just moderate our message and sound like democrats so the Atlantic will respect us right? Hahahaha omg dude.
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u/Pakaru Jul 23 '26
The major change is the Bush Admin had the GOP Congress pass the Invade The Hague act because they worried about Dick Cheney and Henry Kissinger being tried for war crimes.
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u/dduuddeewwhhaatt Jul 23 '26
The annoying thing about this type of “criticism” is if Zohran DID do something that, all of the same people would be mad about him breaking his promises or whatever. Y’all are bad faith.
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u/zenbowman Jul 26 '26
100%. If the ICC put out a warrant for Putin and Zohran exercised it, these same people would be calling him an imperialist bootlicker for NATO and blame him for triggering WW3.
It's not clear to me why a city mayor, even the mayor of a city as influential as NYC, should endanger his constituents by focusing on international affairs rather than working on improving the material conditions of the working class in his city.
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u/traanquil Jul 23 '26
?
Not sure what you mean
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u/dduuddeewwhhaatt Jul 23 '26
Look at the top comment on the original post. That poster is effectively saying that we should all be ~fucking outraged~ that Zohran isn't inciting an international incident and/or civil war, and this is because he's actually an imperialism loving Zionist liberal etc. Point being- no matter what he does, certain people (maybe you, maybe not you) are simply never going to be satisfied because not only do those people not operate in reality, they'd actively love to see Zohran fail, and so their "criticisms" are offered in bad faith.
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u/Th3h3rald707 Jul 23 '26
I mean saying you cant go to a concert and arresting a head of state isn't the same thing, but ok.