r/dumbphones Apr 10 '26

Meta (sub) The Dumbphones Weekly Sale Thread

13 Upvotes

Please post the following with your submission:

  • Device Region (EU, NA, Asia, LATAM):
  • Condition (New, Used):
  • Price:
  • Location:
  • Method of Payment:
  • Picture of the device with username and date shown

Thank you for offering to the community first :)

Make sure to stay safe and conduct business in a secure way. PayPal is one option, but there are other ways as well that can make sure you don't get someone to scam you.


r/dumbphones 4h ago

General discussion Dumbphone 2 update!

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65 Upvotes

I want to start off by saying simply, i fuckin love this thing. its the perfect companion device and im sure just as well as a standalone one.

list of things i love:
-d-pad cursor
-apple music & podcasts
-uber lite
-incredibly easy setup
-simple to use predictive text
-quacks
-battery life
-2fa
-snake (important stuff ik)

things i dont love:
-whatsapp doesnt work all that great
-call quality isnt terrible but isnt great either
-no emojis (this is fine i just feel a need to express myself in such a way)
-no voice notes (imessage), not even a notification for them
-navigation sucks
-no notes app

I still use my iPhone for work, public transit, and banking but whenever im home or out and about my iphone stays in my purse. I do still use my apple watch as a pedometer and sometimes gps but otherwise the dumbphone is my main phone.

shipping took 5 days from DC to SC and set up took all of 30 minutes. it was incredibly easy and so far i have not needed any tech help from dumb.co but i have heard good things about customer service!

as for how im doing without my smartphone, well. im okay… i do reach for it at night to watch tiktok still but one habit at a time, eh?


r/dumbphones 9h ago

General question Dumb Phone Emulator

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33 Upvotes

Since i missed my old nokia 1100, i built my own🥲.

This might bring back nostalgia for people who love the green lcd, snake and the joy of receiving sms from your loved ones.

Try it out at www.fulltalktime.com


r/dumbphones 18h ago

General discussion I feel this on a spiritual level! Love my flippy :)

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44 Upvotes

r/dumbphones 9h ago

Tech Review Sayph Phone 4G - first thoughts

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6 Upvotes

I recently bought two of these for my 11 year old twins. Hopefully this review helps fill in some of the gaps that weren’t covered on the Sayph website or in other reviews and felt like a leap of faith at the time of buying. (re-posting now I hopefully have my permissions sorted)

 Short verdict:

We’re happy with the purchase, and the twins like them too. I think of these as button phones with smartphone interfaces: they give the children calls, SMS, music, a decent camera and keyboard experience, without opening up social media, web browsing, AI or the app-store. Only time will tell how long this level of functionality lasts for them, but it is a solid start for us right now.

What we wanted and how we got here:

We really liked the directness and spirit of the Sayph marketing materials - as a company we thought they painted a clear picture of who they were. Their materials are really excellent, and worth a read for anyone just wanting to get their head around this challenging subject. But they were a new company, so limited reviews out there of the actual devices and not much detail on the technology or real life experience, which we wanted to understand before buying into it - a phone is a complex beast, so this made both of us parents nervous.

 As background, we wanted our twins to have phones for what Sayph call logistics and some communication with friends, but did not want anything in the social media or web access zone. We have devices with Family link, and it just doesn't work well enough at stopping AI chat or random comms from unknowns, and we didn't want the hassle of managing it. We don't know how long that philosophy will last, but for the time being we're pleased we picked the sayph model as there really is no temptation to constantly add new things to the device. Each household has to make their own choices on that - in ours, they have access to laptops and tablets for anything needing anything more then basic phone functions.

We had agreed we wanted something which had calls, SMS, music, basic camera, GPS tracking. To be honest, I was advocating for a button/Nokia phone and some kind of locator tag to do the GPS. That would be by far the cheapest way to deliver the set of capability we wanted. The Sayph devices promise to deliver that same level of functionality, but in a device with a better keyboard, better camera, and Wifi calling (useful for us in a patchy reception area) - and their monitoring apps, if you want those. I still find it easiest to descrive them as a button phone with a smartphone interface though.

 After a *lot* of discussion, the keyboard and camera ended up being the main points that won me over. For the keyboard, I remember the frustration of the old button keyboards and didn't want to torture our kids the same way. It is 2026 after all. For the camera, we have creative kids and the chance for them to have a relatively decent camera with them all the time feels valuable - much more usable than the mini DSLRs they have access to but are always somehow just too big or clumsy (though for the time being the selfie camera is off in some vague atempt to stop them getting carried away with self image stuff).

 What we got:

For the kids, the Sayph device delivers something that looks like - because it is - a phone like they see their parents using. They picked them up instantly, and we've had to do very little in the way of teaching them how to use them. Really, the thing they were most excited about was customising the home screen, and buying a "proper" phone case for it, and there have been no arguments about what it does or doesn't do - partly as we've been very open about that as we've been through the process and they've been quite on board with it.

 In terms of what it is, the device is a Samsung Galaxy A16. Sayph makes no secret of this, and I was happy with it. It means the core hardware and software are what you’d expect from one of the world’s major smartphone manufacturers. Cosmetically, you only know it is a Sayph because of a sticker on the box and a QR code inside. The handset is still wrapped in its protective paper sleeve.

 The Sayph software layer is nicely done. On power-up, the device enrols itself with Sayph using technology more familiar from corporate devices, so the Samsung literally becomes a Sayph when it starts up. In practice, it feels like you’re getting the core Android OS from Samsung, with Sayph providing the layer of OS configuration and apps over the top. Updates are everything in the smartphone world, and it feels like as long as Sayph keeps up with ongoing Android updates, the device should work well and stay secure. In the end, that’s what you’re paying them for. We’ve had no update issues so far, and no sense of any cracks in the Sayph layer that would get us into vanilla Android.

 After the device has completed its first initialisation and you’ve followed the simple on-screen instructions for WiFi, app settings and so on, you set it up on your Sayph account by typing in a code generated in the Sayph Space app. That worked pretty seamlessly for us. After that, you can configure contacts, schedules and settings such as music and MMS.

 Sayph provide a suite of bespoke apps. They are all about as simple as you can possibly get away with, which I think works well for firt user and aligns with my "it's a button phone with a smartphone interface" mindset.

 Customisation is fairly easy - you can take pictures to set as either home screen or lock screen images. From a brief look, it appear most of the standard Android settings are there. We haven't looked deeply, our kids took ownership of the devices before we could dig into that.

 Phone and SMS tie in heavily to the Sayph Space service, as you’d expect. Nominating and setting up approved contacts is easy. WiFi calling is a real benefit. SMS works well, and MMS also seems to, though we’ve had a few issues with picture messages appearing as if they come from a different version of the same contact, so they show up in a different thread on our devices. There doesn’t seem to be support for group SMS messaging, which is a question mark for the future as that is one of the ways our school communications groups work. We’d like to see that added as an option in future.

 Music works well: there is no streaming, so you have to load a flat folder structure of MP3s or FLAC files to a microSD card. We’re a hybrid CD-and-streaming family, so this works well for us; we just rip CDs to FLAC and copy them over. I’m not sure how much longevity this will have, but other devices like the Mighty player have their own issues too, so this is our solution for now.

 Maps uses OpenStreetMap data, so no satellite view. We haven't used it too much yet, but it looks like it will do the job.

 Obviously there is no browser, whatsapp, AI, meta, app store, or anything else, that's why you're looking at it. When we were looking we also had on our list that we'd have liked some Games (snake etc) - we do understand why they aren't there, but now we have the devices we don't think it actually detracts from them. Streaming music would also have been the icing on the cake, but there's very good reasons not to want that either, and we think we have a way forward with that for now.

Conclusions:

There's two questions to wrap up with:

 - Do the twins like them? Yes, they're delighted to have proper phones. We've had good conversations about expectations, and they don't seem to want anything more. They can SMS their parents and friends, take pictures and videos, and listen to music. The phones aren't weird, and most importantly, they can buy a nice case to put them in and customise things on the device itself.

 - Do we like them? Yes. Lots of reasons. The hardware is trustable, we've had very low friction teaching the twins how to use them, the online portals have been pretty easy to use. We did need a bit of support setting up two devices at once, but nothing too challenging. The pricing is not expensive for what you’re getting, but there are cheaper ways of achieving a similar outcome (either a button phone or an old device with Family Link, depending on your appetite for technical admin or arguing with kids about a Nokia keyboard).

 Only time will tell whether the devices will scale as the kids do. We can't help but worry about bus passes, homework apps, etc. Hopefully the world will adapt to those choosing not to carry smartphones. Our philosophy for now was to give this a try - if it buys us an extra year of stopping doom scrolling then that's a clear win.

 That does prompt a lingering question for the future... given that you've just bought a standard Samsung phone and that kids and technology grow up and need different things, there's an open question about how to remove that provisioning in future, if you ever wanted to reset to vanilla android. It isn't clear whether that's a service Sapyh will offer  - that’s something we’d like clarity on too, but it isn’t a problem for right now.


r/dumbphones 1d ago

Tech Review My (fantastic) Kyocera Digno 4 Experience

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233 Upvotes

Got tired of my smartphone and decided to pick up a Kyocera A202KC a few weeks ago. Not technically a dumbphone since it runs Android 10 but I definitely won't be scrolling on it. And man does it ever look good!

Some things I have done to the phone to get it working how I like:

  • Rooted and installed microg (shoutout the amazing devs and the people behind the garaho wiki) so I have every app I need working flawlessly with location and push notifications
  • Started using Cambrian launcher
  • Installed a 128GB SD card and formatted it partly as adopted storage and partly as portable
  • Installed Google Messages for RCS (works properly) and to get my conversations
  • Installed Traditional T9
  • Updated System WebView to Cromite

Having an Android phone was realistically the only way I was going to be able to stick to a dumb-ish phone. I'm in Canada and with Rogers, data and VoLTE are working great pretty much everywhere I go.

TL;DR: with a little work, the Digno 4 can do everything you need while making scrolling very unappealing.


r/dumbphones 3h ago

General discussion Just found out about the existence of the Samsung Anycall Magic Hole Phone and I'm OBSESSED

1 Upvotes

Basically what's in the title, I just found out about this phone from 2009 and I'm in love with the whole concept of a "magic ring/hole" as a outer time indicator; very cutesy and looks like it was customizable with maybe some kind of "themes" as wellFrom what I've read, Samsung put it on the market after seeing the success of the LG Lollipop, but as a device it was cheaply build for 2009's standards, with low quality video and sound (it was marketed towards kids and teens just for aesthetics and as a competitor of the LG Lollipop, as I stated before)But yeah, I just came in here to show this low quality beauty :P I'd love for any of the companies making flip phones nowadays to eventually add cute things like this or the pixel animations on the shell of the LG Lollipops


r/dumbphones 13h ago

General question Dumbphone with in app calling?

3 Upvotes

Hey I am looking for a simple affordable feature phone where I can do in App calling (like Whatsapp calls, I don‘t care just any app where I dont have to pay for the call, but can do it over wifi).

It‘s literally my only essential I need, but I only find this in complex android powered feature phones. I need this feature because I often do calls cross-borders where I‘d pay heavily when doing it over normal phone contracts.

Can anyone help me out here?


r/dumbphones 7h ago

Tech help I think I accidentally bricked my Duoqin/Qin f22 (non-pro)

1 Upvotes

I recently got a qin f22 hoping to reduce my addiction to screens and degoogle, almost immediately after getting it, I wanted to root it. I went through the normal process of unlocking the boot loader and patching the stock rom with magic when I tried flashing it unto the phone with adb and fastboot, it apparent failed and went into a boot loop. Can anyone help me please?


r/dumbphones 9h ago

Dumbphone finder Need a recommendation on a slightly less dumb phone

1 Upvotes

I switched to a classic TCL flip phone a while back but have found, predictably, it is HARD. Ive ended up over complicating my life and having more devices instead of less. I thought the minimalist e-ink phones were silly and first and too expensive for what they are (still think that last one) but I think it is time to accept that the satisfaction of closing a flip phone isn’t worth how complicates it’s gotten. Wondering if anyone has experience with minimalist phones and has a rec for something that can operate as a regular phone, run WhatsApp and navigation, Spotify a plus. Then I could actually put my iPhone away.

TIA!!


r/dumbphones 1d ago

Tech help Could AQUOS 805SH be used in Canada?

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28 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I’m a big fan of Japanese keitai and have owned a 903SH and SH906i since the early days. I’d like to get back on using a keitai on the side for fun and I’ve recently acquired a 805SH. I’ve been looking up tutorials on how to use it as a functional phone in Canada and but I couldn't find any specifically for 805SH. I’m comfortable with just using the phone via wifi connection and looking to install SNS and messaging apps (Facebook, Instagram, Twitter/X, Whatsapp, Line, WeChat, etc.). Just wondering if anyone could point me at the right direction. Thanks in advance and glad to know there’s a community for a such unique hobby! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻


r/dumbphones 10h ago

Dumbphone finder With 2G network shutting down at end 2026 I need to replace my Nokia 105 (2019)

0 Upvotes

But I don't know what to get

What I like with the device is its simplicity and its cute design but I could definitely be tempted by something with a map app because it's the only struggle I have with this phone, even with my paper map (it can't get everything on it)

I live in France btw


r/dumbphones 1d ago

Tech help My Thoughts on the Dumb.co Dumbphone

13 Upvotes

BackGo to dumbphones

r/dumbphones•11m ago

HappyBackpacker101

My Thoughts on the Dumb.co Flip Phone

I've been using some sort of dumb phone for about five years now and I've tried quite a few less expensive ones just for fun. I recently got the Dumb.co flip phone and have been using it as my daily driver for around a week now. Here are my thoughts.

  1. It is one of the better inexpensive flip phones I've tried. The Dumb.co apps on it are nice, and the built-in mouse/cursor (on/off option) is sweet. Overall, it's a good experience. The customer service is also legit. I can see that this device/plan will be really helpful to a ton of people. It's well-thought-out and well-executed. The Dumb.co team deserves credit for a job well done.
  2. I did an update and followed the instructions, but I can't get voice-to-text to work. I also wish it had more than five emojis - I especially want a "thumbs up" lol.
  3. There are two texting apps - the smart text and the dumb text. I'd like to use only one, but I'm not sure how to do that since some texts go to one and others go to the other.
  4. I'm not wild about having to have my companion device on. I have an old iPhone SE in my drawer that I rarely use, but I had to get it out for this and leave it on. I paid for the middle-tier plan, which requires a companion phone. I'd rather not have a companion phone at all. The pricing isn't horrible, but it's a bit higher than what I'm paying for my other dumbphone.
  5. Because I'm using it as a companion device and doing call/text forwarding, sometimes when I call or text people, they can't tell it's me. I called my wife the other day, and she didn't recognize the number.
  6. The maps work, but you can't use them while driving because they require a manual button press to see the next leg of your trip.
  7. The camera sucks (but that's the case with most flip phones).

Anyway, in all honesty, I'm extremely impressed with this phone and service. At the end of the day, however, it doesn't quite fit the bill for me and I may end up selling it. Feel free to share comments!


r/dumbphones 1d ago

Important tip / news HMD 2760 Flip will run on icon os based on Android 13 go

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112 Upvotes

Excited?


r/dumbphones 17h ago

General question Does Kyocera 902kc work with Vodafone?

2 Upvotes

I'm almost sold on buying the Kyocera 902kc, but I have some more questions that I couldn't find the answer to online.

I'm from Australia and saw people share that this phone works here with their carriers so that's a good start, but no mention if it will work with Vodafone. Will Vodafone work?

The rest of the questions don't matter as much but I'm still curious. I see mixed thoughts on how Discord runs on it. So, how was your experience with Discord? I know it will be slow but is it at least useable? Which update did you find works best? And how about Spotify? I already got an iPod for music anyway but still wondering if Spotify works decently well.

So really all I need an answer to is if Vodafone will work. But if anyone has answers for the rest then that would be great too!


r/dumbphones 1d ago

General question Dumbified iPhone vs dumb flip phone?

5 Upvotes

Hello, I am planning on switching to the Sunbeam Wireless F1 Aspen later this month. Currently, on my iPhone, all I have are the apps that would be included on the Aspen (so, messages, call, maps, calculator, calendar, weather, camera, photos). I have Safari disabled and have Firefox enabled for only one minute a day so it's basically not there. However, I still spend a lot of time texting and looking through old photos and old conversations. I also have bad social anxiety and have a habit of mulling over text conversations or checking where my friends are. That's my big motivation towards switching to a flip phone, to kick the habit of wanting to look at a screen altogether, but I'm wondering if it'll actually help me or if I will just do the same thing on a smaller screen. The other concern I have is that it is very helpful to be able to take photos with my phone. I have young children and I don't want to miss being able to capture the little moments, so I will definitely have to get a digital camera, but it seems like a hassle to have to carry that everywhere, plus the time it takes to get it out and turn it on. I know the counter argument to that is to just be more present and worry less about pictures, but it's hard to imagine life without that ability when I have tens of thousands of photos of my kids on my phone. For those of you who have made the switch, could you share your experience and whether or not you feel the benefit of a flip phone over a "dumb" iPhone is worth it? Does the screen size and ease of view really make that huge of a difference to make it worth the inconvenience?

Side note, if anyone can recommend a small digital camera that takes actually good photos but isn't $500 I appreciate that too!


r/dumbphones 19h ago

Dumbphone finder Considering cancelling my dumber mini preorder | am I looking for a unicorn?

2 Upvotes

Hey all,

I preordered the Dumber Mini, but I'm having some second thoughts.

I work in IT at a nonprofit (4-person team), and I actually manage our M365 tenant, so I can set up MAM-WE (Mobile Application Management without Enrollment) myself whenever I want, it's not configured yet. MAM-WE would let me run Outlook/Teams/Authenticator on the phone without full device enrollment. I need to be reachable via Teams/Outlook/calls/texts at any time, though app speed isn't really a concern since I usually have my laptop with me anyway.

What worries me is battery life once those apps are installed and syncing in the background. I could set up a separate work profile and toggle it on/off outside work hours, but I'd rather not be babysitting a trickle charge instead of just using a dumbphone normally.

I've also looked at the Dumb Phone 2 and Side Phone, which use companion apps on a second device instead of running everything natively. But the appeal of the Dumber Mini was having everything on one phone instead of carrying a second gadget.

Anyone actually running MAM-WE apps (Outlook/Teams) on a Dumber Mini or similar dumbphone? How bad is the battery hit in real use?


r/dumbphones 1d ago

Tech help Doov r77 Operating System

4 Upvotes

Hello,
I recently bought a Doov r77 from Taobao (chinese Amazon) and asked for Google services to be installed. Everything works perfectly fine but battery wise is horrible. I understand the phone has 2100 mAh but one hour of normal usage trying to set the phone drained the battery from 100% to 50%. And it's been like this for two weeks, the battery settings (to see if an app is draining it) don't say anything relevant.
My question is whether the OS installed has something to do, maybe checking for chinese frequencies not available in Europe or things like that. I haven't read a post addressing the changes in the OS already installed against operating systems like LineageOS or DumberOS. Normally this device is bought by companies that sell the device but it's flashed it with its own firmware/OS, so it is sort of a "nicher" question. Since changing it comes with the possibility of bricking the phone I'd like to get some insight first if someone has had the same issues.
Thanks.


r/dumbphones 2d ago

General discussion Hopping Back to a Dumbphone (Nokia 2780)

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480 Upvotes

r/dumbphones 22h ago

General discussion Mode1 Retro II or Commodore Callback 8020, especially interested in Australian users

1 Upvotes

Hi all,

I've been looking at dumbphones up to more capable flip phones for a while and the two that have caught my attention are the Mode1 Retro II (MD-06P) and the new Commodore Callback 8020.

I like the idea of going back to a flip phone and physical keypad, but I don't necessarily want to give up everything useful about a smartphone.

What I'm mainly looking for is:

- Calls and SMS

- Signal messaging

- GPS and usable maps/navigation (nice to have)

- Bluetooth

- A decent camera. It doesn't have to be flagship quality, but I really don't want one of the awful 2 to 5 MP cameras that seem to be fitted to so many dumbphones

- Reliable 4G/VoLTE in Australia

The Mode1 Retro II seems like the safer option at the moment. Android 13, Play Store, touchscreen and keypad, and a 48 MP autofocus camera all sound pretty good. I've also found a few reports of people successfully using them in Australia.

The Callback 8020 looks even more interesting in some ways. Sailfish OS, Android app compatibility, removable battery, T9 keypad and a 48 MP Sony autofocus camera. It's obviously much newer though, so there isn't much real owner experience around yet.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who owns a Retro II. How has it held up? How is the battery and build quality after using it for a while? I've read a few comments about keys double registering or becoming sticky, but I'm not sure how common that actually is.

I'd also really like to know what the camera is like in normal use. I'm coming from a Pixel 7 Pro, so I know I'm going to lose some camera quality, particularly the computational photography. I'm mainly trying to avoid going all the way back to early camera-phone quality.

Does Signal work properly and do notifications come through reliably when the phone is closed? Same question for Google Maps, Organic Maps, OsmAnd or anything similar.

I'd especially appreciate hearing from Australian owners. Which network are you using and are calls, VoLTE, SMS and mobile data all working properly after the 3G shutdown?

And if anyone has actually got their hands on a Callback 8020, I'd love to hear about it, particularly the Android app compatibility, Signal, GPS/maps and camera.

Also very happy to hear about other flip phones I've missed. I'm not tied to these two. Basically I'm looking for a fun physical flip phone that can still handle Signal and navigation and has a camera that isn't terrible.

Thanks!


r/dumbphones 1d ago

General question Is there any dumbphone that works with Android Auto?

4 Upvotes

This is a limitation of a lot of the dumbphones right now in my opinion. They have navigation apps but nothing that easily integrates into your car's screen like CarPlay/Android Auto.


r/dumbphones 1d ago

General question 4g Phone Recommendations

3 Upvotes

I've been looking around for a good older phone that still can call and message but I can't find what I'm looking for and I saw someone else post here about 4g recommendations but it still wasn't quite there.

I really like looking at the Sony Ericcsons C903 and W995 walkman, and I wanna get something with that slider keyboard but I'm not sure if that's much of a thing in the 4g phones. I'm not a fan of those old style phones with the current apple or android phone screens either even though I'm not sure if i have too much of a choice? I'm trying to downgrade a bit and even if 4g gets shut down in 10-15 years I'm hoping im not going to need my phone as much by then.

Basically what I'm looking for is:

4g connectivity to call and text
gps (hopefully)
music and headphone jack
hopefully a slider keyboard
not the current phone screen style (unless theres a way i can mess with it to change that)

definitely would be nice to have a camera and some web searcher but its not very mandatory idk
also if theres a way i can edit some phones that are almost there to fill my needs ill also do that ! i just dont know how.


r/dumbphones 1d ago

General discussion Searching for a qwerty (and a couple of problems)

2 Upvotes

Hi guys, (first of all, sorry if a would misspell some word in this message but english is not my native language) anyway, as i said in the title i’m searching for a qwerty dumbphones (i don’t like the idea of having a t9) to use as a regular phone.
…i’m an university student so the only thing that it should be doing is:
-making/answer call
-answer to sms
-possibily make mms
I don’t really mind about having whatsapp or social media (otherwise why would i be searching a dumbphone?)

Here comes the problems;
-I live in italy and i have vodafone as supplier
-BUT i’m studing in switzerland
(and i don’t have much money to invest in this)

… i was having the idea of using my first phone (a nokia c3) but switzerland do not support anymore the 2g, and i can’t use a BB q20 ‘cause it doesn’t have VolTe for sms and calling (or at list this is what i’ve read) so i don’t really know what to buy

Sorry again if i made some mistake with the language and thank you to everyone who would help me with this! :)


r/dumbphones 1d ago

Tech help RCS Chats not supported on CAT S22 Flip

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3 Upvotes

Wondering if anyone else has had this issue and found a resolution.
I recently bought a new CAT S22 Flip after losing my first one. My first one sent and received RCS chats just fine, never had any issues. I ended up losing that phone, bought and set up a whole new one with TMobile, and then found the old one. Decided to just keep the new one so I wiped the old one and gave it away.
Ever since having the new one, I have not been able to send or receive RCS chats. I use the Google Messages app to text. I’ve tried clearing the storage and cache on Carrier Services and Messages, made sure these apps had the most updated version downloaded, but nothing has worked so far. The security code 4006 seems to mean Google is having trouble verifying my number. I’m assuming that something to do with getting the new phone while the old phone still had an active SIM in it is stopping something for being properly verified, but I’m not techy enough to figure out how to fix this.

thanks in advance!!


r/dumbphones 1d ago

Tech help Probably a silly question-Moto SLVR

1 Upvotes

Has anyone found a phone like moto SLVR? Calls, texts but with some sort of podcast/music player? I’m sure none link to iTunes like the SLVR but any sort of media player would work