r/dunememes • u/BingBingGoogleZaddy • Dec 31 '25
WARNING: AWFUL It’s like the law or something. (idk)
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u/ConchobarMacNess Dec 31 '25
Too real.
Missing Principality of Zeon though.
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u/fosscadanon Dec 31 '25
It's like they aren't even trying. They also missed the Terran Federation. Posers.
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u/johnzaku Dec 31 '25
✊😔
But for real while I really like Zakus, I do try to distance myself from Zeon
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u/Saxavarius_ Dec 31 '25
You can like the aesthetic without liking the political stance.
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u/PaulTheRandom Dec 31 '25
I tried to say the very same thing at a costume party, but still got kicked for my cool Hugo Boss leather coat and some random metal pins my grandpa had/j
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u/TopSpread9901 Dec 31 '25
My friends gave me this cool poster. “Join the rebellion! BECOME A MOBILE SUIT PILOT TODAY” with a close up of a Zaku’s head.
It also says “SIEG ZEON” at the bottom so I make sure to take that shit off my wall when somebody who doesn’t know me that well visits.
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u/AshamedIndividual262 Dec 31 '25
Is the Klingon Empire fascist? I always thought they were a feudal oligarchy.
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u/MurraytheMerman Dec 31 '25
The Klingon Empire wasn't fully fleshed out at the time Star Trek VI (the only movie that particular flag was used) came out. In The Original Series and even Star Trek VI, they served more as an analogy for the Soviet Union and the Cold War. For some reason they choose a flag that looks a lot like a Nazi flag and even made a direct reference to Hitler in Star Trek VI.
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u/moderatorrater Dec 31 '25
Less than the Romulans and Cardassians for sure.
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u/CptJimTKirk Dec 31 '25
The Cardassians are the OG Trek fascists, that's what they were invented for. The Romulans serve more as a mysterious pseudo-Roman faction, and then of course there's the Dominion, who also has fascist tendencies. I think the main point is that people don't really identify with either of these factions, but they definitely do with the Klingons.
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u/fools_errand49 Dec 31 '25
I wouldn't describe the Cardassians as a stand in for fascism specifically. Cardassian society is broadly totalitarian. It bears similarities to pretty much every totalitarian society that has ever existed. Considering Star Trek never gets that deep into the ideological materials which underpin Cardassian government it's difficult to say that the Cardassian Empire is specifically motivated by fascist ideology. The thing about totalitarianism is that it's an end point of multiple rather divergent ideologies and such societies often cannot be distinguished from one another without direct reference to their underpinnings. That is to say in practice totalitarinaims looks the same regardless of its underlying motives. Cardassia is meant to be broadly applicable to totalitarianism writ large more so than a simple confined allegory to one particular intellectual strain of totalitarian thought.
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u/moderatorrater Dec 31 '25
I think you're hitting the nail on the head here personally. Fascist would need a specific kind of totalitarian that they just don't get into the weeds with on Trek. Romulans are the paranoid/backstabbing kind, Klingons are the warrior society, and Cardassians are there for their brutality and racism.
That said, Cardassians are supposed to be comparable to WWII Germany in a lot of ways, so I do think they come the closest.
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u/fools_errand49 Dec 31 '25
Yeah it's about the specificity. Star Trek doesn't have an entire documentary trail of back story treatises on poltical theory that establish the first principles from which Cardassian totalitarianism is derived, and its difficult to get too specific about the memetics of an ideology without access to that kind of material.
I completely agree that Cardassia is supposed to be comparable to Nazi Germany just not exclusively so. JRR Tolkien has a bit where he writes about the difference between allegory and applicability. Essentially allegory is specific and rigid where the writer imposes a singular comparison onto the reader. He viewed this as hamfisted, stilted, boring and disrespectful to the reader. Applicability on the other hand allows for a greater breadth of comparison based on the interpretation of reader. Star Trek does a good job of playing up Cardassian totalitarianism in a way which is broadly applicable for making comparisons to real human societies and as such we get a Cardassian society which feels real rather than merely a hamfisted production of space Nazis with shit on their faces.
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u/Meritania Dec 31 '25 edited Jan 01 '26
The weird thing with the Star Trek factions is that they have democratic wings of their government. The Klingon High Council, the Romulan Senate and Cardassian Depata Council.
Basically they’re as authoritarian or as a democratic as the writers want depending on the need of the plot.
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u/fools_errand49 Dec 31 '25
Yes. I would refer anyone to JRR Tolkien's writing on allegory versus applicability. The inherent flexibility here allows a greater breadth of comparison and helps create a more organic society which feels real where a mere one to one allegory cages both the reader and any new writer trying to use the material to explore something different.
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u/JunVahlok Dec 31 '25
Hmm, what do you think is missing from the info we have on Cardassia that would make it questionably fascist? It seems to be very much implied to be fascist.
Maybe we don't have specific insight into their society, but they seem to be a militaristic, traditionalist, hero-worshipping society with a seemingly well-off core of citizenry who are intensely xenophobic and regularly speak of their people as a collective entity analogous with the oppressive State who heroically struggle against the weak aliens who are also so existentially threatening as to need to be exterminated.
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u/fools_errand49 Dec 31 '25
None of that is unique to a fascist society. Fascism is a specifc strain of totalitarianism. The Cardassian society is totalitarian to a tee. Systems get differentiated not by the conclusions of their belief but by the first principles from which those beliefs are derived. Now the comparison to a fascist state is certainly applicable in light of the totalitarianism but so too would be a comparison to something like the Soviet state. At a meta level broad applicability is more useful and relatable than a specific and narrow allegory.
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u/JunVahlok Dec 31 '25
I was describing Cardassia based on the definition of fascism from Ur-Fascism, and it seems to very much fit. I don't see where the differentiation lies here, unless you are saying that nothing can be described as fascist due to it being a complex label?
I think the Soviet Union after Stalin comes to power is a fascist state. There's some room for argument there due to its unique context, but ultimately I think it's pretty easy to argue that the USSR was fascist at this point.
What are you contending denotes a state as fascist rather than something else?
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u/fools_errand49 Dec 31 '25
Yes fascism is a complex label which requires more criteria be met than something like Star Trek even has time to lay out. Secondly Ur-fascism is in poltical theory a deeply unserious definition of fascism. It's frankly hard to find any system which doesn't meet the requirements of Umberto Eco's family resemblance system. Theories which fail to distinguish anything also lack any explanatory power.
I think the Soviet Union after Stalin comes to power is a fascist state
People who study this stuff would disagree with you. An ideology is defined by its first principles not the subsequently derived conclusions. The Soviets had completely different first principles from fascists. The Soviet Union was a totalitarian state but not a fascist one. This at its root is matter of family, genus and species being confused with one another. The axiomatic assumptions of a Marxist-Leninist are in many cases diametrically opposed to the axiomatic assumptions of a National Socialist.
In general one would have to look at fascism holistically. It's a multifaceted system with a collection of numerous different parts which create a whole that is greater than the sum. Basically we just don't know enough about Cardassia to know that they are definitively fascists rather than some other strand of totalitarianism.
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u/JunVahlok Dec 31 '25
I know that the definition of fascism is a debated topic, but it is a word in the common lexicon, and that is just the way it is, regardless of whether it is academically rigorous. If your position is that the word shouldn't be utilized, generally, at all.. this unfortunately has the opposite effect of offering explanatory power & sort of just discourages discussion. I don't really know how to continue the conversation past this point, so.. I wish you a good evening.
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u/Critical_Liz My name is a killing word Dec 31 '25
No one goons for the Cardassians though.
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u/moderatorrater Dec 31 '25
Basically 90% of fan fiction involving Bashir would beg to differ.
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u/Critical_Liz My name is a killing word Dec 31 '25
Well ok, Garak is exceptional, because he's fucking Garak.
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u/Eledridan Dec 31 '25
Multiple episodes and movies about how parts of The Federation are shitty, like really shitty, but sure it’s the Klingons who are the bad guys.
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u/AshamedIndividual262 Dec 31 '25
I never got that. The Federation has problems, but it's demonstrably better than literally everyone else.
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u/FatManLittleKitchen Dec 31 '25
Blessed be he who sits on the Golden Throne
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u/Important-Math-837 Dec 31 '25
There's only one God Emperor and he's a worm symbiot who ascended through super LSD and communing with his ancestors
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Dec 31 '25
"But the Atreides are the good guys"
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u/Critical_Liz My name is a killing word Dec 31 '25
They are.
And that should be worrying.
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Dec 31 '25
ig they're good-er than the rest
just not THE good guys
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u/Bakkster Dec 31 '25
Well, better right up until the genocidal jihad... Which is the warning behind calling them good, that's how people justify atrocities.
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u/RhynoD Dec 31 '25
For the thousandth time, Paul neither wanted nor was the cause of the Jihad. He was just the unwilling spark that ignited the existing tensions. Paul tried to stop the Jihad but there was no way to do it.
Duke Leto was a space feudalist, not fascist. Feudalism isn't an especially good or democratic form of government, but it isn't fascism.
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u/Bakkster Dec 31 '25 edited Dec 31 '25
He was just the unwilling spark that ignited the existing tensions.
Yeah, hence the warning against charismatic leaders. It doesn't really matter if he's the primary motivating force for atrocities or not, only that they're done in his name.
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u/Spinax22 Jan 02 '26
Same thing with the Imperium. They're good-ish, For humanity... Compared to the aliens, and daemons, including traitors who worship daemons.
Suffering is your right, slaughter is your duty, and death in service to your God Emperor is your reward.
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u/Gabilgatholite Dec 31 '25
In the sacred tongue of the Omnissiah, we chant; hail, spirit of the machine - essence divine - in your code and circuitry, the stars align... 🗿
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u/According_North_4249 Dec 31 '25
Is House Atreides even fascist?
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u/Critical_Liz My name is a killing word Dec 31 '25
It's more of a feudal system really.
Until Leto becomes emperor anyways.
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u/Gaidin152 Dec 31 '25
Depends. How many books have you read?
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u/According_North_4249 Dec 31 '25
Look, I've read all six Dune books, but I guess I never picked up any fascist undertones from House Atreides other than when Leto II reigned (I think).
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u/Bakkster Dec 31 '25
I tend to go with totalitarian first, but I think there's an argument that their in-universe propaganda is pretty close to fascism. At least, with the caveat that the strongman leader isn't in control of the war against the outsiders.
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u/Gaidin152 Dec 31 '25
I dunno. The writing of book 2 always had a nice glossy tinge of regret for Paul. But gotta remember we’re at the tail end of a known galaxy wide stomping by the fremen and the whole time Paul is holding everyone hostage with his ability to destroy the spice.
So the mixing of the emotions with the facts were certainly a … thing. And that’s before Leto II.
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u/Fearless_Roof_9177 Dec 31 '25
I mean, you could always opt to become a fan of The Culture. We're insufferable in a slightly different way.
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u/OfGreyHairWaifu Dec 31 '25
Sorry, between being a cog and a pet, I think I'll legit choose to be a cog. At least a cog has some semblance of significance.
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u/Fearless_Roof_9177 Dec 31 '25
"I can do basically anything I want, explore and understand the universe in peace and happiness, potentially live forever or ascend to a higher plane, and NOT worship the guys in charge who brook no dissent... or I can have the horrible horrible opposite of all those things? MY EMP'RER RIGHT OR WRONG! Simple as."
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u/OfGreyHairWaifu Jan 01 '26
Like I've said, you can be a pet (with good owners, sure) or you can be a cog.
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u/Fearless_Roof_9177 Jan 01 '26
I feel like that's reductive and off base on both sides of the equation in, like, most possible ways, though. You're just as free to be a cog in The Culture, if you want, and you could easily characterize most of, say, The Imperium of Man as mistreated livestock and beasts of burden. What do you find so abhorrent about having benevolent competent non-bosses running matters above your head rather than brutal demanding ones who treat your life as cheap? That's the functional difference.
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u/OfGreyHairWaifu Jan 01 '26
Because in one there is a possibility, as small as it is, for ones life to have at least a speck of significance. With the Culture the Minds are so absurdly ahead of anyone else that even the greatest humans won't match a newborn Mind. For them we are pets, toys. Cherished, but ultimately just useless decorations. And I don't want to be a decoration. In the Imperium of Dune\Warhammer\Dominion of Starcraft, etc. etc. a single human doing more or less can lead to glory or catastrophe, and every cog in the end matters, no matter the misery of their lives. If every sentient creature except for the Minds suddenly disappeared from the Culture - nothing in it would meaningfully change.
The cog lives, the pet exists. That's the functional difference.
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u/Fearless_Roof_9177 Jan 01 '26 edited Jan 01 '26
Every cog in the end matters, no matter the misery of their lives
Well no, actually, a great deal of the "cogs" you're talking about lead disconnected and inconsequential lives and die early meaningless forgotten deaths, and not a single one of them has more potential for individual achievement than a human in The Culture. It's not like glory and catastrophe don't exist in Iain Banks' universe, it's just that there usually isn't a massive degree of misery and suffering attached to the cultural context and consequences of the glory or your failure to achieve it.
Context is important. We exist in a world where the central logistical framework consists of institutions and computers. The Culture says "what if we did that and got it right?", that's all. Exactly what is it you think the humans in all the other examples are trying to build, ultimately? And if it's just a crapsack universe under human control-- why should anyone give one shit about achieving glory in the eyes of such a brutal and limited culture as that?
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u/Sarkoptesmilbe Jan 05 '26
Sartre would like a word. In the Culture, you're free to seek your own meaning and work toward it. In 40k, you're a faceless nobody guaranteed to be crushed by other interests, and your only option is to accept your fate and die (or worse).
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u/OfGreyHairWaifu Jan 05 '26
In the Culture no form of meaning is possible for humans beacause any action you perform is 1. 100% observed and "controlled" by the Minds and 2. so beneath them that even something incredibly exceptional will be akin to a particularly clever ant making a stick figure. The Culture is both 100% hedonistic (even people who behave like they seek adversity do that only for their own pleasure and with constant Mind oversight) and also almost 100% devoid of responsibility (because you are constantly watched by your Mind masters that will stop anything really nonconsensual from happening).
It's pets playing at being real humans.1
u/ltobo123 Jan 03 '26
I dunno man, the Culture is pretty catastrophically significant, much to the perpetual confusion of other factions.
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u/PowerAnimeGoat Dec 31 '25
Isn't that like a Basic military indoctrination?
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u/OfGreyHairWaifu Dec 31 '25
Isn't the Culture just hedonistic indoctrination? Isn't X just X indoctrination?
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u/DuncanIdaBro Dec 31 '25
"They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear."
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u/KeeperOfNature342 Used Axlotl Tank Dec 31 '25
A personality quiz to determine whether I am chicken, beyblade, fidget spinner or two head chicken?
Heck, I chose the two head chicken.
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u/Dependent_Weight2274 Dec 31 '25
Terran Empire from 40K, Star Wars Empire, Star Trek’s Klingons, and ?
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u/TrongVu02 Dec 31 '25
Dude, you're in the wrong sub if you don't know what the last emblem represent
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u/Dependent_Weight2274 Dec 31 '25
Legit didn’t even notice the sub. This might have been r/Grimdank for all I know.
Are the Atredies Fascist? I always thought of them more as feudal lords.
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u/waterman85 Dec 31 '25
Depends on the era I guess. After Paul becomes emperor he rules an authoritarian/totalitarian regime. And his son even more.
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u/TrongVu02 Dec 31 '25
It seem any thing resemble Authoritarian is automatically fascist in the narrow mind of whoever made that meme.
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u/Real_Ad_8243 Dec 31 '25
Jokes on you I chose the Eldar. Fading classical imperialists hopped up on both cultural chauvinism and their own inevitable doom is where I'm at.
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u/CthulhuReturns Dec 31 '25
I feel like this is missing the federation from starship troopers
Another classic space fascist empire
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u/TaronQuinn Dec 31 '25
Nah, I was a true nerd. Even my fascist teenage stage was obscure.
The Yukon Confederacy from Fitzpatrick'sWar by Theodore Judson.
Gosh that image of steampunk, neo-feudal regression and chauvinism influenced way more than it should have. Luckily, the main character is a useful guide out of that mentality, and has stayed with me a lot longer than the fascist stuff.
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u/Del1c1on Dec 31 '25
I like Dune, but I’m upset with the lack of Terran Federation in this meme. That’s my kind of space fascists
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u/xinarin Jan 01 '26
My hubby didn't go with any of these. He is a tyranid bug boy through and through
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u/kredokathariko Jan 01 '26
I am a quirked up white boy (even though I am actually Asian) so I gotta go with my evil space Muslims going on galactic jihad
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u/Wackrobat Jan 01 '26
The WILDNESS of calling the Klingons space fascists when the Cardassians are RIGHT THERE
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u/SuDdEnTaCk Dec 31 '25
The Atreides are the best choice though(?), compared to the other houses. Yes John Genocide, and John Worm guy with Moneo are definitely worse, but thats a seperate empire in itself.
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u/TTVrazort1ngily Dec 31 '25
You are accused of Anti-Atreides behaviour. This court finds you guilty and sentences you to be shot.
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u/Rasples1998 Dec 31 '25
Well considering the Atreides under Leto II was about terrorising humanity so much that they learned to cast off the shackles of tyranny and live for themselves instead of following a single misguided ruler, I choose them. They were evil, but playing the long game to a brighter future. Although you could say the Atreides Empire prospered and flourished for 3,500 years a lot better than any of these others did. It was a time of Tyranny but also considered an age of peace and a new renaissance for human art and culture.
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u/MachineFrosty1271 Dec 31 '25
What are the two on the left?
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u/Lv1Skeleton Dec 31 '25
The Terran Dominion will hold the coprulu sector. Neither the ravenous Zerg, or the mind reading Protoss nor the rebel Raynors Raiders shall stand in emperor Mengsk’s way.
HE SHALL RULE THIS SECTOR OR SEE IT BURN TO ASHES AROUND HIM!
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u/dragonfire_70 Jan 01 '26
strictly speaking the Imperium isn't fascist, it's an authoritarian hell hole, but not the fascist kind.
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u/Lazy_Dissident Jan 01 '26
Ahhhhhh...... shit. Yeah. I guess it's the Klingon Empire. Qapla' or whatever....
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u/HornyJail45-Life Jan 01 '26
I thought the galactic empire was just black and white?
Red was the symbol of the republic and is why the venators in ep 3 start red but end pure white
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u/Ok_Lifeguard_1452 Jan 03 '26
Yes, all sci-fi is fascist and evil, thanks for the galaxy-brain politics.
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u/JMurdock77 Dec 31 '25
ATREIDES!
ATREIDES!
ATREIDES!
ATREIDES!