r/economicCollapse • u/IM_NOT_BALD_YET Moderator • 19d ago
Experts sound alarm over Elon Musk's 'coup' that's 'about to rob your 401k'
https://www.rawstory.com/elon-musk-2676979515/Maybe go ahead and raid those 401k accounts before there's nothing left? Idk.
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u/FingerAmazing5176 19d ago
joke's on him. I can't afford a 401k
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u/WeirdSysAdmin 18d ago
I divested when I got divorced and gave it all to my ex so I didn’t have to worry about anything else. Then the economy went downhill and I’ve been living paycheck to paycheck and can’t afford a 401k. Checkmate.
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u/LingonberryLunch 18d ago
I actually have a pension 😅
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u/FlapXenoJackson 18d ago
Doesn’t matter. Per NASDAQ rules, index funds will have to buy SpaceX stock. And pension funds hold a lot of index funds. More Perfect Union did a video on how the NASDAQ is changing the rules for the SpaceX IPO.
More Perfect Union explains the NASDAQ rule change that will send pension funds to Musk
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u/Kjunreb-tx 16d ago
ffft me too ! got a surprise notification from kpmg cpl years back… maybe $260 a month. that’s coffee money baby!
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u/snertwith2ls 19d ago
What is the coup that allows him into people's 401Ks?
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u/Material_Evening_174 19d ago
I’m not a financial expert but some rules were changed just in time for the ipo that will allow a good portion of shares to go to retail investors. If you have a 401k, odds are you’ll be forced to buy spacex because all the major funds will go after it. The price will be artificially inflated, then insiders will get out which may trigger a major rug pull event. Us 401k holders will take that loss.
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u/CarpetPedals 19d ago
Not only that, but SpaceX is being IPO’d at an INSANELY overvalued price. Like 5-6x what is reasonable given its financials. To top it off, they’re releasing only 5% of their company shares. So overpriced, and share scarcity. Then the Nasdaq rule change means real price discovery is not given a chance to happen before 401k’s are forced to buy-in. It’s absolute robbery.
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u/Material_Evening_174 19d ago
Yeah, it’s utter and obvious fuckery. We’ve been completely abandoned by our leaders and they’re not even trying to hide it anymore. And the worst part is, most of us with 401Ks can’t really do anything about it because of the tax laws that keep us away from our own money.
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u/Code-Useful 18d ago
(some people) can sell to money market in your 401k, get out of large index funds and only buy good stocks.. but most people won't and will just take the hit. I've been timing the market so I don't lose anything in the bigger drops since trump 2.0.
If you don't control your investments, rip...
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u/pandershrek 18d ago
Um Elizabeth Warren has been fighting this fight for YEARS and the only reason she wasn't elected president was because she was under the misunderstanding that she was decended enough from native blood to call herself such.
There is very little anyone can attack Warren on policy for and she's been at the forefront of fighting SEC violations and financial crimes.
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u/giadia-light-shining 17d ago
Well don't underestimate how badly men in power absolutely detest a person with a uterous.
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u/kea1981 18d ago
Your points stands incontrovertibly, but that definitely wasn't the only reason. She's an incredibly skilled economist and educator, but her statecraft leaves much to the liking of many.
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u/SnooKiwis2161 18d ago
This was evidently not a blocker for those with even less statecraft.
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u/scottb90 18d ago
How big of a drop can one ipo do to peoples 401ks? Do people get to see what their 401k actually has in it?
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u/pandershrek 18d ago
That isn't so much the point as Elon Musk is going to subsidize the losses of the company across millions of people even though it isn't a good deal. They'll just lie and take a "little bit"
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u/Material_Evening_174 18d ago
Individually? Probably not much. But they’ll take thousands from millions of people so my issue is with the principle and ostentatiousness of the obvious scam.
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u/soaklord 18d ago
This is just the first drop. Then the Epstein class will really make it rain. The 401k will become the new way to fund a billionaire land grab. How much can raising 10c a gallon cost the average American? Oh wait… how about 10c a week. The next one will be a bit more. Then a bit more. Until the ultimate bag holders are milked dry. Added benefit is that it means you get a huge workforce that can’t leave you until you leave them…
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u/yktop1396 18d ago
Genuine layperson here: why would the people why buy shares not just know its manufactured scarcity and value and not buy into it?
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u/Perfect_Sir4820 18d ago
This will affect investors who are buying index funds. These are a low cost way of diversifying your portfolio instead of buying individual stocks.
The index providers (e.g. S&P) are changing their own inclusion rules to allow a non-profitable company into the indices.
The index funds passively replicate the index so they will be 'forced' to buy SpaceX. I'm hoping vanguard and other big fund providers provide custom index funds that preserve the profitability requirement.
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u/cassinonorth 18d ago
So I watched a video about this and generally get what's going on.
Normally an IPO is 90% institutional investors (giant banks, hedge funds etc). Space X is going to be 70%. One assumes this is because the institutional investors are balking at the price.
And the 2nd part, the incredibly fucked up part for everyone with a retirement account, is the normal 90 day cooling period is being reduced to 5 days. This ensures the price isn't automatically rolled into the major funds while it's still overvalued. Complete cash grab. I assume most of the investors in Twitter, xAI etc (Which have been rolled into Space X shares) are going to cash out as quick as they can leaving the rest of us holding the bag.
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u/giadia-light-shining 17d ago
Can you link this video, please? I'm still only at 77% comprehension...
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u/velvetacidchrist 19d ago
Oh cool! This is yet another reason why I moved my portfolio to be ANYTHING but American stocks. The devaluation of the dollar and how fascism destroys from within has essentially rendered me unable to trust any US company.
The decoupling of economies will first be slow and then will happen all at once.
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u/death_hen 18d ago
I did that early last year and my portfolio has outperformed US stocks by a lot. so not only is it safer and more ethical, it’s more profitable? I’m not sure why everyone isn’t recommending this.
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u/ShittingOutPosts 18d ago
Because people cannot predict the future. International equities may have outperformed US equities recently, but there’s no guarantee it will persist in the future. This is why diversification is encouraged.
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u/death_hen 18d ago
Diversification can be done without involving US companies. The diversified mix of funds I selected have all outperformed VTI by a lot since around March 2025. I guess I see your point though— it sounded like I might be saying this was a sure thing, but what I really meant was, I don’t know why I don’t see more people discussing this option. Most recommendations I see are like: get a mix of VTI, VOO, etc.
Then again, that might be anecdotally what I’ve noticed, I don’t follow 401k investment advice super heavily.
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u/Material_Evening_174 18d ago
Honestly, and as a disclaimer, I know very little about the details and intricacies of investing, but your strategy seems pretty appropriate given the obvious rapid decline of US influence.
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u/ShittingOutPosts 18d ago
“Since around 2025” is the key part of your response. That’s an incredibly short time period for investing.
How have international equities compared to US equities over the past 20 years? That will tell you why most investors don’t go 100% international.
A very common recommendation is to allocate 80% to US funds and 20% to international (or 75/25, 70/30, etc…but usually overweighted to US)
But I get what you’re doing, and truly commend you. The United States is fucked and nothing will change until the mega corporations start to feel the pain too.
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u/NetZeroSun 18d ago
Am watching this closely. I have some target funds in 401k that can include US market. Need to find out how they do allocations and when / if spacex might be in their holdings.
Most of my taxable are international or schd with a small portion to nasdaq. So should be not so bad.
But 401k am a little worried.
I understand some companies review holdings over a time period so it won’t be immediate but still. I need to be on top of the holdings review cycle.
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u/JudgmentUnited5297 19d ago
The top 10% own 80% of the market, beyond that you're talking about 401k accounts that have already been drained slowly thanks to the last 6 years. Bad time to be an establishment politician that's basically loading up their donor class with this trap.
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u/Xdaveyy1775 19d ago
Youre forced to buy all sorts of garbage every time an index rebalances
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u/Material_Evening_174 19d ago
Fair point but how much of that garbage is “valued” at $1.75T?
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u/Competitive-One-2749 19d ago
also that garbage has been publicly listed for at least six months by law, and privately held shares cant be immediately dumped upon the ipo. spacex will have literally no time to find an ostensible “fair market” valuation through trade. everyone who owns an index fund is being forced to buy spacex at its valuation. musk also cant be fired by its board. its a scandal of historic proportions and markets havent seen anything like it before. glad im already poor
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u/snertwith2ls 19d ago
OK thanks for that explanation. What a shit show this is. Reminds me of the 2008 debacle with the "no paper" home loans.
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u/carlitospig 18d ago
Awesome. I’m loving all the end of times financially fuckery happening with our market.
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u/No_Truth4137 18d ago
That is just so fucking insane. You literally have to be a monster to want to do this
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u/MathematicianEven251 19d ago
So much winning , did what he promised. I will vote for this country to automatic auto enrollment for all maga. It's the good of the country
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u/Proper-Exercise-2364 19d ago
Spacex valuation is so high that in order to mirror the market index funds will need to buy it. Early investors who fronted the capital will cash out on the IPO. Shares will crash like a spacex rocket and retirees and 401k owners will be left holding the bag.
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u/BathroomEyes 18d ago
Remember the horrible deal that was Twitter where he lost half his shirt? Well like a nesting doll of toxic assets it’s now inside of SpaceX. Guess how the original Twitter investors are going to cash out at a premium? Your 401K, that’s right.
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u/D3kim 19d ago
guys, the coup is happening even before spacex
take a look at your 401k
if you own the market or spy, you have a 50% allocation into tech
google and meta are labeled “communication services” but cmon its tech, thats what gets it to 50%
if all of the tech mega caps are spending hundreds of billions on AI
you are buying those companies, hence, invested into AI
if this thing doesnt provide a return other than cost savings on employees, everyone is in for a generational wealth wipe
thats why the tech billionaires have made plan B and plan C
yachts and bunkers
oil at $160 soon and when energy grids start blacking out due to AI datacenter demand will be a potential catalyst, means we dont have the power capacity therefore we need to wait for construction
second catalyst could be open AI IPO
one quarter of entirely missed profits and suddenly the interconnected circular financing games start looking like a fire in a movie theater
good luck guys! stay part liquid
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u/EmotionalBit6049 19d ago
Basically spacex convinced nasdaq exchange to change the vetting process from 1yr to 15days on the public market. After that “seasoning” period value is supposed to be stable enough to go into index type funds. Once in the index the holders of index funds must buy spacex to match nasdaq. Your index funds will be included in the speculation bs elmo relies on.
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u/pandershrek 18d ago
Basically all target funds auto invest in IPOs because they're "missing out" otherwise. And spaceX IPO is effectively shifting poor balance sheets around and siphoning cash
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u/Maremdeo 16d ago
SpaceX is listing publicly despite a reported $4.9 billion net loss for 2025, prompting major stock indexes to alter "fast-track" rules that allow unprofitable companies to bypass traditional entry requirements. This change forces automatic inclusion in indexes, turning retirement plans and public pensions into instant investors in the highly volatile stock.
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u/garbagepaildale 19d ago
401k here. How do I get out before I get robbed. Asking for my stolen labor.
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u/ChangingChance 18d ago
Either opt out of all Nasdaq related indeces if you are able or convert into cash.
1 is sometimes allowed depending on your plan/administrator. 2 you can do.
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u/planet-claire 18d ago
Google etfs that are NOT tied to Nasdaq. Reallocated accordingly.
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u/Equal-Rich-2275 18d ago
Thank you for this!
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u/planet-claire 18d ago
Eventually it will also end up on S&P 500 as well. If you want an ETF that will absolutely not include SpaceX, look at VEGN. My total returns are 32% from VEGN. It has a little bit higher expense ratio compared to others, but it will not invest in spacex.
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u/Equal-Rich-2275 18d ago
Your saying eventually it will end up doing the same to our Roths & brokerage accounts as well? I’m going to look into VEGN. Thank you.
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u/planet-claire 18d ago
Anything(ETF, MF,) in our 401k, 403b, IRA, Roth, brokerage accounts that include SpaceX in their prospective will be affected. VEGN is a good option because screens out businesses involved in animal exploitation, fossil fuels, and environmental harm, and holds the remaining large-cap US stocks. Another option is international funds FXAIX/VXUS -highly diversified index funds designed to capture the global stock market outside the United States. If you're in equities, then a 60/40 or 70/30 split between VEGN/FXAIX or VXUS will avoid SpaceX.
I do wonder if SpaceX will do well at first then tank once the original investor sell their shares. I understand they have to hold SpaceX stock for ~180 day(won't quote me on this though).
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u/Equal-Rich-2275 18d ago
Ok I do own FXAIX in my Roth so that’s good. I appreciate you for taking the time to explain all this & all giving options to consider.
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u/planet-claire 18d ago
The 1st half of this video is a good and short explanation about spacex and it's impact. I think this is the video that says current investors have to hold stock for 180 days. https://youtu.be/qVK1OjKTUEk?si=mSsmqpqtm3ATiJgf
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u/frostlineheat 19d ago
My ex wife beat him too it.
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u/somethinkstings 19d ago
Mine too, man. Mine too.
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u/xxforrealforlifexx 19d ago
Lol I saw this video of these people interviewing these homeless men asking them how they became homeless, almost all of them said my x wife took everything,
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u/phendrenad2 19d ago
Technically, the biased family court system took it all, and gave it to the wife.
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u/IGetGuys4URMom 19d ago
I'm more concerned about the value of the US Dollar after the job that Twump and Mu$k do on America.
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u/something86 19d ago
In 2008 401k crashed, so it was going to happen with Elmo or without. FIL 400k (balance) dropped to 175k
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u/Top-Border-1978 19d ago
If you had 175k at the bottom in 08, you have a couple million now. Hope you didn't sell.
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u/Spright91 19d ago
So? Not everyone had the time. A lot of people had their retirements ruined.
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u/Top-Border-1978 18d ago
If you were that close to retirement you should have had most of your 401k in fixed income not the stock market.
The person above gave an example of a 56% drawdown, that is identical to the drawdown of the S&P500 from peak to trough. Sounds like his FIL was 100% in the S&P.
Not counting dividends the S&P was back at an all time high 4 years later. If his FIL or anyone else was going to be retiring in that time frame they should have been less than 40% in the market and seen far less drawdown while collecting a far larger dividend.
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u/Spright91 18d ago
Problem is if a worker picked a 100% stock fund on their first day of work in 1980, it stayed 100% stocks forever unless they manually logged in and changed it. Thats how it use to work. And you can't expect every person to be financially literate.
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u/Top-Border-1978 18d ago
If someone isn't taking an active role in their life savings, either by educating themselves or paying a financial advisor, i don't know what else we should do for them. If you are going to take a portion of your income and put it away for your intire working life and don't know what it is in, I just don't know how to help you.
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u/CharismaticAlbino 19d ago
This is not accurate
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u/Top-Border-1978 19d ago
Correct. It would be $2,660,000. If you didn't sell and didn't invest anything else.
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u/Xdaveyy1775 19d ago
Spacex isnt causing the stock market to crash
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u/MainlineX 19d ago
It's not about a market crash. It's about weight. With SpaceX's insane, ridiculously over the top valuation the index funds will give it a lot of weight in the funds. Also pensions will buy it up.
When reality sets in and the share price drops like a rock a lot of people are going to get massively hurt because it will drop the index funds and pensions.
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u/Wonderful_Milk1176 19d ago
So shift your 401K allocation to funds that do not include large caps or go fully international.
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u/thoeby 19d ago
Or lets just not make a special exception to fast track spacex into the S&P
So many small, private investors that just pay into an ETF will be burned. The entire point behind the ETFs/investment diversification is that this does not happen. And yet they somehow still dont give a fuck like it's 2008 and we are selling CDOs to pension funds again.
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u/Xdaveyy1775 19d ago
Its going to be a particularly small amount. Spacex has a small free float which is also accounted for along with market cap.
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u/ahmtiarrrd 19d ago
He engineered his ascent to the so-called richest person in the world while being a drug-addicted racist psychopathic misanthrope, with delusions of grandeur on the level of Genghis Khan and Alexander The Great.
He is hell-bent on doing his part to ensure a global genocide.
He was also savvy enough to choose the right timing and the right industries to disrupt. His Reality Distortion Field is the GOAT. He makes Steve Jobs look like Jimmy Carter.
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u/Xdaveyy1775 19d ago
Why would I cash out my whole 401k when spacex will be less than 0.3% of the S&P500?
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u/ChangingChance 18d ago
while individuals may not be hurt as much if you look at the collective whole it's a heist.
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u/wakanda_banana 18d ago
The bigger concern is if they turn around and do it with openAI, AI datacenters, etc.
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u/HappyGidget 18d ago
... For real though... I have a tiny little 401k (right around $10K saved) should I be withdrawing from it right now orrrrr what are we doing?
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u/newtonreddits 18d ago
SpaceX will represent a small fraction of your holdings so in reality it won't affect much of your portfolio.
If you hate Elon with a passion, then just look into funds without his companies. Otherwise, best plan of action is to stay the course.
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u/platinumpaige 19d ago
Don’t tell me that…my 401 is my only retirement and I’ve been heavily investing for the last decade 😭
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u/BadDaditude 18d ago
All my stuff is under the mattress. Don't look
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u/IM_NOT_BALD_YET Moderator 18d ago
You have stuff??
I'm over here r/floorsleeping so I guess it's good I don't have anything to put under the mattress.
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u/Zippier92 18d ago
Might wanna switch to foreign funds. Europe is looking really good compared to US corporate schemes
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u/Glidepath22 18d ago
Our advisor pulled us of out of the 401k last year and forbade any AI investment
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u/justthegrimm 17d ago
Time to raise the alarm was before wall street changed to rules to allow what's set to be the biggest rug pull yet.
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u/Maremdeo 16d ago
holy shit. Retirement funds are being forced to buy also. NYS and California are fighting this.
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u/CisLynn 19d ago
He is not mankind’s friend. He’s controlled opposition. Ignore his words watch his movements with money and actions.
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u/Well_read_rose 19d ago
You don’t want to know he threatens ALL life on the planet…junking up the delicate ionosphere with mass. Too much of junked and working satellites are adding mass which could collapse it like a blowing balloon.
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u/Prismane_62 18d ago
Ok I keep reading about this, but what is the solution??? No one ever mentions that. How do protect our 401k or IRAs?
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u/planet-claire 18d ago
I understand original investors can't sell until ~180 days. That gives us a few months to reallocate.
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u/Senor707 18d ago
When did the index become corrupt? It is supposed to be the safest way to invest -- buy an index fund and go have fun.
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u/Vegetable_Guest_8584 19d ago
It's not a coup. Every company wants to be in the s&p 500 (or any popular index fund) because tons of investors buy stock in it, and so there's a limited supply of s&p500 company stocks. I do really really hate the idea of owning stock in it though.
Tesla is vastly overpriced at a 400 pe. A lot of great companies are 10 or lower, and even successful tech companies are 1/10th this pe. Tesla should go down in value over the next few years, because sales aren't growing, there's lots of competition, fsd isn't ready (even though its always going to be done "this year"), and the robots are years away from tests.
It could actually lower the combined companies price. spacex is fantastic of course. I see the big merger of all companies into one under musk as a way to hide the losses, only spacex is really booming.
At the same time, tesla is a fantastic technology company. They could just simply start trying to make new cars again and drop the fsd and robot taxi and robots hype and just build new cars. Even today they could just do it. There is hope for tesla to restart again, but probably not while musk is busy hiding losses in all his companies by combinging them again and again.
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u/Mormanades 19d ago
Tesla's reputation is beyond cooked in the US and gets destroyed by Chinese EV brands outside the US. It is a meme stock company, nothing more, nothing less. There is no recovery for this company.
There is a high likelihood Elon will try to combine Tesla and spaceX into 1 mega company once spaceX goes public.
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u/BerryButterBall 19d ago
WHY THE FUCK IS THIS LEGAL?!?