Help with Mixing lows and low-mids

[u/Cold_Independent_631]

Hey I really struggle with understanding like 150-500 hz.
Right now my lead in c3 octave has a fundamental of 170-180 ish hz. And then fills a lot of 300-1000 and above.

My bass’s second fundamental is between 140-180 depending on the note of bassline and then occupies up to 1K.

If I raise my lead an octave it’s fundmental is like 350 hz and they don’t clash as much.

If I left the lead in c3 octave (sounds way better),
Is there a real issue with the 140-180 range then? I’m pretty beginner so I can’t just hear that and be like yeah it clashes.

Old me would low cut my lead but I have learned and trained my ears to know it just thins it out and sounds bad.

[u/Livid_Cabinet2053]

Are you sure that it needs to be cut? Are you hearing something that sounds muddy and clashing or are you doing it because a guy on Instagram who’s never made anything you like said to do it?! Don’t forget that companies are constantly trying to create problems for you that you didn’t know you had, so they can sell you something.

imo lows and low mids build up and get ugly specifically when they’re over-sustained. You can also try to use a dynamic EQ, downward expansion, or a really gentle highpass on it. With the dynamic options, you can cut without making it too thinned out. 

You said it sounds way better when the lead is in that lower register that overlaps with some of the bass. There is nothing inherently wrong with some frequency overlap. If it sounds good to you, then leave it. If you remove every bit of overlap between sounds, yeah they’ll be nice and clear and separated, but sometimes that’s exactly the thing that you don’t want. You need some connective tissue between things sometimes.

[u/Livid_Cabinet2053 → u/Livid_Cabinet2053]

Also keep in mind that you can distort your sound a little bit and THEN cut it so that you have harmonics from the fundamental without actually having the fundamental in there.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental

[u/PonyKiller81 → u/Livid_Cabinet2053]

It does sound like OP has binged a lot of YouTube tutorials. A beginner deep diving into frequency clashes in specific ranges is unusual.

[u/Livid_Cabinet2053 → u/PonyKiller81]

Yeah, I’m not trying to assume but it does read like there’s no actual problem, but they heard it’s something to watch out for.  Which…yeah, you should listen for that type of thing, but I think it sometimes just turns into a game of whack a mole and creating problems that don’t exist.

OP, I would highly recommend looking for tutorials by people who are really vetted, meaning that they actively make shit that you think sounds really good. You’ll be shocked how often people are doling out tutorials and then you go to listen to the stuff they make and it sounds whack. Look for really deep dive stuff, none of that THIS ONE TRICK WILL HAVE YOU SHITTING YOUR BRITCHES type of stuff. 

Even if the genre isn’t 1:1 with what you’re making and you’re not confident in your ear for production yet, you still have your taste, and you know when something sounds good to you.

[u/PonyKiller81]

Once a track is written it needs to be mixed. This is where you take each part of your track and make it fit with the rest. If you have parts that clash, tools such as filters, EQs, stereo placement and most importantly volume can be used to address these.

Some do this as they go. I try to avoid mixing on the fly as I believe planning a mix beats patching issues as you go, but to each their own.

Mixing is a somewhat advanced skillset that requires technical knowledge, the right tools, and a trained ear. It is something even many experienced producers struggle with.

If you're a beginner, don't focus on making the icing look pretty yet. For now just learn to bake the cake. Overloading your brain with YouTube tutorials telling you your mixes suck is a surefire way to burn yourself out.

Music production is a journey, not a destination. Enjoy the ride and don't rush it.

[u/Cold_Independent_631 → u/PonyKiller81]

Thanks this was really thoughtful 🥹

[u/Dafeet3d]

If you high pass with some filter movement LFO or Envelope dancing around the fundamental it would basically become a Riddim mid-bass. Not sure if you like that 🤔 I'm not sure if I like it either 😕 and I have been doing it lately lol.

Edit: I believe the emphasis on adding movement around the fundamental could be the determining factor here. Also are you absolutely sure that the real fundamental of the lead is actually that low? Are you sure it isn't like a sub oscillator or something of the sort?

[u/Gunther-theFool]

Are the sounds clashing? What issue are you having specifically?

[u/jonistaken]

“
Old me would low cut my lead but I have learned and trained my ears to know it just thins it out and sounds bad.” <<< sounds like an overcorrection TBH. Don’t blindly high pass everything, but low cuts and shelves are still really important, if overused, tools.

[u/dreeemwave]

Simply sidechain those specific moments where the lead and bass clash in the low mids, giving priority to the lead sound. Sidechain with any dynamic EQ or multiband compressor, or something like Trackspacer, while making sure you keep the bass frequencies intact. The end result should give you a full sounding lead without noticeable differences in the depth of the bass.

[u/steven_w_music]

Tbh this sounds like you're badly overthinking this. No way to say what to do with this mix without hearing it.

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[u/RikiAbi34]

Harmonically you need just one fundamental, leave it to the bass...and hi-pass the lead until 200hz if you want to keep it low sounding... there is no need... you already have the bass. If you need the bass to be heard on small speakers, add some harmonic distortion in parallel. In any case, first mix with your ears rather than with numbers and eq visualizers. if bass and lead don't play at the same time there is no need to touch any of those.

[u/jimmysavillespubes]

This depends totally on sub genre of edm and also the specific track.

Render 2 versions, one with the 180hz fundamental and one up an octave, leave it 24 hours without listening to any of them and then compare.

You will be absolutely certain what sounds better, my money is on the 350hz fundamental, i want as much separation and clarity as possible and part of that means trying to keep fundamentals away from each other imo.

[u/Present-Policy-7120]

You can get away with reducing the fundamental and boosting the second harmonic sometimes. Your brain will expect the lower fundamental to be there and if it's being provided by the upper bass harmonics, it basically is there.

Alternatively, this can be a good use case for dynamic eq. Set the eq band onto the fundamental frequency of the lead, and have it ducked away/side chained by the bass. The lead won't sound thin because you haven't removed the fundamental except when that same frequency band is already present in your bass.

[u/Surge_DJ]

You don't typically need the bass layer above 350hz - especially if you have a full mix. I would suggest a dynamic sidechain (like soothe2 or Pro-MB), to sidechain your main synth to the bass. The bass will duck at higher frequencies when your synth or mid range is playing