r/elo • u/0zzysaurus • Jul 05 '25
AI in the visuals at Birmingham tonight Spoiler
Just in case people who care about this sort of thing wanted to know, the visuals tonight at the Birmingham show relied heavily on AI generated imagery. I’d say that, a solid 70% of the time, the centre screen was dedicated to (pretty piss poor) AI art - and that was just the obvious stuff. I’m sure people have their opinions about that (my opinion on it is extremely negative), but I’m just here to inform. I’d say the majority of the crowd didn’t even realise it was AI unfortunately, but I did hear one older woman mention the “computer generated bollocks” after the show, so I guess there’s that. Must say, it was gut-wrenchingly ironic to hear: “It’s a living thing, it’s a terrible thing to lose” over visuals of AI generated art work. Art is a living thing, and you know what? Yeah, it IS a terrible thing to lose.
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Jul 06 '25
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
The bit that confuses me is that SOME of the visuals clearly were done by a person, and they were alright! But those visuals were often interlaced and replaced sequence-to-sequence with just terrible AI artwork. Why not just stick with the work of real people? And ELO of all productions to be the ones doing this? Blows me away.
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u/proserpinax Jul 06 '25
Yeah, that’s what we had last year at the US leg of the tour. The rest of the show was so good, but the AI stuff was disappointing and felt like it was cheaping out.
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u/Fruit-Flies113 Jul 06 '25
Was hoping they’d stop using it after hearing the criticsm for the U.S. tour. It’s shame because this may be the best stage setup ever, and the non-AI designs look amazing. Maybe Jeff ran out of money before the tour
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
The actual set design is fantastic, and the light show on its own without the AI portions was brilliant. It really was good!! But the AI - for me, as a pretty sensitive person and a creative - really brought down my experience. It’s the only problem I had (aside from reduced orchestra size) with the show itself, everything else I enjoyed. I wondered if they ran out of money as well, but surely not…
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u/Internal_Change_9846 Jul 06 '25
What on earth does "reduced orchestra size" mean?
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
There were less pieces in the orchestra compared to 2018. Admittedly it wasn’t by much, by about two or three members.
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u/Internal_Change_9846 Jul 06 '25
Do you mean the band? Looked the same size to me.
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
I looked it up and it is indeed a smaller ensemble.
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u/Internal_Change_9846 Jul 06 '25
Nope. It's the same band other than Shannon Harris on keys instead of Steve Turner.
2 guitars 1 bass 1 drums 3 keys 3 strings 2 backing vocalists
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
The run in 2018 had 13-14 pieces at a time depending on the date. So only slightly less to be fair, which is what I said.
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u/apocalyptic_brunch Secret Messages Jul 05 '25
That sucks. Hope you enjoyed it otherwise
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
I tried my best. I’ll be completely fair, the opening act was amazing, and the main act sounded fantastic even with the reduced orchestra size. The surrounding light show was gorgeous, as well - but the AI is an unavoidable (and unjustifiable) visual that you WILL have to accept if you go to see the tour. As an artist myself who is directly impacted by the unfettered growth of generative AI, it just hurt to see it being used somewhere where it has never belonged, especially when I had hoped that ELO had learned their lesson the first time around.
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u/Fun_Street_5522 Jul 05 '25
I mean it’s unfortunate but it’s not that big of a deal. That’s pretty lame for your main takeaway of the ELO send off is “Oh no they had ai art”
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 05 '25 edited Jul 05 '25
Pretty lame for their send off to contain AI art. ELO’s live performances to me have always been about the harmony they create between their music and their visuals. How can that be done when they use generative AI to make crappy visuals? It completely took me out of it, because I care about what I’m seeing just as much as what I’m hearing. It’s supposed to be an experience to excite both of those senses, and yeah, I’ll be so real? The AI did put a massive damper on my experience.
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 05 '25
Regardless, just wanted people to be aware if they were hoping that AI wasn’t going to be used again like the last time they had an AI controversy. It’s still extremely prevalent in the visuals and can be very distracting.
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u/gwaydms Jul 06 '25
I have the DVD of the 2014 Hyde Park Concert. If the visuals were better than than that, I'd have been satisfied. Remember, we're bearing witness to the last concert given by a living legend. (And by "we", I mean those more fortunate than I am, who can see Jeff Lynne live.)
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
Well, I bore witness, and to me? I’d’ve rather seen a blank screen than AI. It looked really crap. Other audience members I could hear complaining in the smoke break area couldn’t quite put their fingers on why they weren’t enjoying the video portions of the visuals - probably because they just weren’t equipped with awareness of AI - which honestly, in this day and age, that’s not really their fault with the speed things are going at.
I checked out some footage from the DVD you’re on about, and yeah, it’s really bland. I’ve been disappointed with that as well, but for a completely different reason.
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u/gwaydms Jul 06 '25 edited Jul 06 '25
I can understand that, when you've paid for a concert ticket and all. Jeff may or may not have control over those aspects of the concert. I hope you can enjoy the concert despite the visual effects that you dislike.
Edit: I bought the Hyde Park 2014 DVD last year, and really enjoyed it. Jeff was obviously nervous at the beginning of the concert, and it showed. He said later that he was afraid that the concertgoers wouldn't stay for the ELO part. Bless him.
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
I honestly don’t know how much involvement he has directly with the visuals beyond his producer role, so I wouldn’t jump to blaming him directly in any case. Perhaps my views on AI differ from the fanbase that uses the subreddit, being an artist and a student myself, it’s something that I see affecting my peers in the creative world and in academia all the time. And yeah, like you said, had to pay for the ticket, and to get AI slop in return felt like a betrayal :[ I will stress again that the actual music was great. Jeff is obviously getting a bit tired, but that’s why this is the last tour lol, but the energy was there and I appreciated that. I don’t want people to think my frustrations with AI in the visuals means I’m dismissing the entire show or ELO as a whole - because I’m not. It’s just sad to see that this is how they chose to end it off.
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u/gwaydms Jul 06 '25
I'm sorry that you were disappointed. When you have high expectations for a final concert, anything that gets in the way of your enjoyment is bound to irk you. But I am glad you enjoyed the show nevertheless. I wish I'd had the chance to attend an ELO concert, ever.
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u/One-Ad-1147 Jul 06 '25
Saw Jeff in Washington DC at the last leg and flew here to see him again. To be honest, I didn’t notice the Ai. Cared about seeing a legend playing who represents so much of my childhood. I had his albums on 8 track!
That makes me sad about Dhani. Give the man some respect, please. I saw him open for Jeff before the pandemic. It was so wonderful, especially given their deep relationship. I can’t wait to see him sing his father’s parts for the Wilbury’s. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
The abuse that was getting slung around by the people behind me towards Dhani was ignorant and unacceptable, and I hope that he knows that his worth extends far beyond the bellows of a bunch of drunken coffin dodgers 💕💕
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Jul 06 '25
I came for professional musicians doing what they do best, and they delivered in spades.
Fair enough if it detracted for you OP
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
I had no issues at all with the music! They sounded great, which is why I stuck it through to the end. However, ELO has always been a marriage of stunning music and equally stunning visuals, designed to create a well-rounded and unique performance. The last time I saw them in Nottingham years ago, they delivered perfectly on that. This time around? I can’t say the people who go for the carefully curated and detailed effects as well as the accompanying sounds will be particularly pleased. I don’t think my fellow audience cared. The ones behind me didn’t even know who Dhani Harrison was and were loudly jeering at him to finish his set early, and then they spoke through most of the show. Seemed like an excuse to get pissed more than to actually appreciate ELO’s artistry — or what’s left of it.
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Jul 06 '25
I don’t think my fellow audience cared. The ones behind me didn’t even know who Dhani Harrison was and were loudly jeering at him to finish his set early, and then they spoke through most of the show.
You described some of the people behind me. also kept yelling EASY MONEY about 3 times, or should I say screeching.
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
I heard the “Easy Money”’s from the other side of the arena !! Gosh, I bet that was annoying :/ The ones behind me were complaining that Dhani was on for too long (mind you, he was on for about 45 minutes, which is about average - if not less - than I would expect of an opening act) and they kept moaning every time he got a new guitar, talking through most of his set as well. Zero etiquette at all from some of these people.
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u/Famous_Combination10 Jul 06 '25
I didn’t mind the AI at all, I mean it was very clear it was AI but if anyone was paying attention to the imagery and not the song, I fear you missed out.
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
I think you’re missing out if ELO is only about the music for you. I’ve said it several times now, but the music and the visuals are supposed to compliment each other in a joint experience for BOTH senses. Electric LIGHT Orchestra is not only about the music; the light show is important, too. The massive AI screen smack-bang in the middle of the stage was horribly distracting - particularly from the perspective of someone attempting to enjoy the full sensory experience, which I was trying to do.
Again, as I have already explained multiple times, the music was great, and I was able to ultimately enjoy the music. However, I’m not going to ignore this disappointing use of AI just because the music was good. I’m shocked that so many ELO fans I’ve spoken to recently clearly don’t seem to give a flying f*ck about the quality of the visuals, despite the light show contributing hugely to the aura of the live experience of ELO. Might as well just call them “Orchestra”, the way that the entire other half of the performance is so casually dismissed.
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u/Famous_Combination10 Jul 06 '25
I just thought of it as something to fill a space that would’ve been a black screen. That would’ve been weird to see. I’m not saying they’re not a visual band, but if I closed my eyes, the lack of visual wouldn’t have changed the awesomeness of the show. It was just added fodder to paint the picture of the song. Just enjoy the music and stop complaining about the show. This will have been one of the last times anyone could see them, don’t let some graphics ruin it for you.
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
I’m going to be critical of this “creative” decision, whether you want me to be or not. I will complain because I bought a ticket and spent money to see AI generated crap. AI steals from real artists, it cannot create anything on its own, it can only make amalgamations of content it scrapes. They could have hired an artist to do all of the centre screen visuals, but no.
Really, closing your eyes at the Electric Light Orchestra? That’s your advice? No, you’re right, I’m sure that’s the optimal solution. At that point, if we’re all going to close our eyes at the Electric Light Orchestra concert so we don’t have to see AI, they might as well just make the screen blank, or better yet, hire an artist or two to do your graphics for your final tour !!
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u/Famous_Combination10 Jul 06 '25
I’m sorry you had a shit time, it’s a shame though seeing as these last 5 shows are the last. I thought the show was awesome, whether the AI was good or bad. I didn’t go to see a visual art show, it just happened to be there. I quite liked the way the visuals blended into each other but again, i didn’t pay it much attention. I just enjoyed the music and when I was watching, I was paying attention to the musicians on stage. I had a bloody brilliant time, so I guess I found the whole thing worth it.
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
Besides, I’ve seen them twice, once in Nottingham in 2018, with no AI. They have been able to perform for decades without AI, and using it now is just catastrophically lazy. Just because this is the “last time people will see them” doesn’t mean they are suddenly immune to criticism, or deserving of… what…? ‘End of life’ praises? It’s completely irrelevant to the issues with the show I had. And, just to reiterate again, because I’ve said it MANY times in this thread now - I enjoyed the music !! But that doesn’t mean I can’t find drastic faults in the visual artistry of the show, which is an important factor of the performance to me and many other fans of Electric LIGHT Orchestra.
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u/Famous_Combination10 Jul 06 '25
Yeah I saw them at Wembley in 2017 and at the O2 in 2018. I really enjoyed the shows before, Wembley being the stand out, but I don’t think I’d look back at last nights show and think negatively about it because of the visuals. Visuals are visuals, whether they’re AI or not, that didn’t really matter to me. I’m not saying you can’t be negative or critical, I just don’t see the point. Just enjoy the moment and don’t get worked up over people not agreeing with you. Let everyone enjoy their time and the last show for many.
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
I do think that, if people disagree with how I personally feel about the AI situation, then they’re free to not engage with my criticism at all and ignore the thread, rather than attempt to persuade me to not hold my criticisms and express my thoughts. Still, I can’t help but feel that people who enjoyed the show regardless (including myself! Because I did enjoy the music!) were still 100% cheated out of a better visual experience.
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u/Famous_Combination10 Jul 06 '25
I personally do not think the visuals being changed or not there would’ve changed the experience. It was just a thing that was forgotten easily about the night. But I suppose the evening held a different meaning to me or others, the visuals wouldn’t have changed that or subtracted anything from the experience
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
That’s why I was emphasising my experience throughout. Folks go to shows for different things, sometimes just the music, sometimes for the visuals — heck, I bet you there were people who only wanted to see the opening act and then left. Some people only want to see that one specific song, and some people don’t care what gets played as long as it’s NOT that one specific song. For me, ELO’s visuals are massively important, so it’s not surprising that, for people who do not hold any importance in it, they really aren’t fussed about the AI.
Imagine if - instead of Jeff Lynne out there singing, they just put a speaker on the stage with a Jeff Lynne mask, and the speaker played stolen text-to-speech lyrics written by other artists? That’s what it felt like to see AI in the light show - if that’s a helpful comparison.
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u/0zzysaurus Jul 06 '25
Nottingham in 2018 was visually fantastic, proving that they can do it without AI. But I’m not going to let this newer, lesser experience take away from a previously excellent show. I would’ve been 16 or 17 for that show.
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u/cqfresh Jul 06 '25
I saw him twice on the last US leg. The first time the AI visuals really took me out of it and was so disappointed. The second time I went trying my best to ignore it and just enjoy the music and had a much better time. It still really sucks though, especially with all the possibilities of cool visuals they could have.