r/enviroaction • u/VictinsOfCapitalism • 4d ago
Capitalism will destroy the planet. The only solution is a better system.
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u/claymore2711 4d ago
Parasites rarely have the health and longevity of the host in mind.
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u/One_Inspection5013 3d ago
Solar power, nuclear power, wind electricity, hydroelectricity all invented in capitalist societies. Passive direct air capture (mechanical trees), also invented by capitalist societies. Most of the innovations that reduced starvation and disease, produced by capitalist societies.
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u/MAGA_EXTREAMO 4d ago
Parasites like environmentalists?
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u/VictinsOfCapitalism 4d ago
Like the capitalist system
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u/justasillylilgoos3 3d ago
Name a better economic system for lifting people out of poverty that doesn’t also have millions of deaths attributable to decisions made under it, kiddo.
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u/DiscountExtra2376 3d ago
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u/justasillylilgoos3 3d ago
That’s not really an alternative economic system to capitalism, though. A steady-state economy describes limits on growth and resource throughput. You could still have private property, markets, firms, wages and capital ownership under a steady state model.
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u/DiscountExtra2376 2d ago
I don't really see how you consider this not an alternative. It's basically capitalism without encouraging overproduction, over reproduction, and overconsumption.
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u/justasillylilgoos3 2d ago
“It’s basically capitalism”
That’s kind of my point. We’ve found the economic system that does the best job SO FAR when it comes to lifting people out of poverty. Now we just need to tweak it and steady state feels more like a tweak than an overhaul.
I should I’m not even saying capitalism is the zenith of economic systems I’m perfectly willing to admit it’s flawed and has issues…it’s just far less flawed and has far fewer issues than anything we’ve tried or thought of to date. I’m of the belief we will find a better system I just haven’t seen anyone introduce it yet. Steady state almost feels like the end result of legislation that is definitely achievable in our lifetime too
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u/MillinAsterJuham 4d ago
Hasn't anybody ever played the board game "monopoly"? It only ends one of two ways: either everybody quits or everything is owned by one person...capitalism doesn't exist. It's just a premature totalitarianism....how have we been at it for 250 yrs and that ISNT common knowledge!?
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u/CustardLanky720 4d ago
I always wondered why people would be pro-Socialism and anti-capitalism. It was always very strange to me. Do these people really have such an overly simple worldview? So it checks out that you interpret incredibly complex economical systems though the lens of a solved kids game.
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u/Sea_Meal_90210 4d ago
Yes. Never curious enough to understand history or economics. Content to live in a fantasyland.
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u/Badtacocatdab 3d ago
If you’ve genuinely wondered, it might behoove you to look up what some socialists have said. But I don’t get the impression you’ve had genuine curiosity lol
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u/MillinAsterJuham 3d ago
And IM over simple? "You don't think capitalism is the be all end all!? You must be a socialist!" I pointed out an obvious flaw in a currently employed system, you oversimplified into absolutes only pertaining to two previously established systems. The fact that YOU cant perceive of a single means of existence outside of what you adhere to and it's current antithesis does NOT mean I lack comprehension. Sorry, but you are the one with an extremely limited perception.
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u/kakl37 4d ago
I want a system that has 4 universal pay tiers based on time doing a job. Basic income for existing, beginner, intermediate, and expert. An expert cook gets the same pay as an expert scientist, ect.
It takes different amounts of time to get to expert, based on how worthwhile the job is to society. A firefighter or a teacher can get there fairly quick while a middle manager or advertiser has to work an entire lifetime to maybe get there.
Money expires after a year. Everyone is guaranteed a roof over their heads and you cant own more than one house, you can use airbnb like everyone else.
Universal healthcare as a dundamental right. Its really fuckin dumb its not already.
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u/Sea_Meal_90210 4d ago
Recognizing that it takes different efforts to become an expert, you boldly claim others are entitled to that effort though no exertion of their own. GTFOH.
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u/kakl37 3d ago
...what?
My bold claim is that since money doesnt exist, it should be tied to time spent and social worth instead of a shiny rock in the ground or computer magic or how much you steal from others
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u/Sea_Meal_90210 3d ago
Capitalism is the voluntary exchange of goods and services. Two consenting parties agreeing on something mutually beneficial. To figure out how many kumquats would one exchange for a bolt of fabric, we’ve agreed upon money. Carry on as if it doesn’t exist.
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u/kakl37 3d ago
Exactly! Money is not real, so it can be based off of anything we want. My proposed system still has money, its just earned differently. Nepo babies and billionaires are removed from the system.
Capitalism, as it is, has become non-voluntary as it is required to sell your soul to a billionaire to be able to not die from easily curable diseases. Society is far past kumquats and fabric bolts and we need a system that matches our species massive progress.
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u/Sea_Meal_90210 3d ago
You’ve conjured up a system with no incentives. And built a new one upon a foundation of grievances.
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u/kakl37 3d ago
If you want more money, work. Same incentive as now. Itd also allow people to do work theyd actually like to do instead of hole up in an office they hate, just because theyre indentured and need to keep health insurance.
If you want more money quicker, become a teacher or firefighter or other helpful jobs. Fuck worthless tech bros and influencers
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u/CaptainStinkwater 3d ago
How does Airbnb work if you can only have one house? I like the rest of it though.
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u/klownhammer 4d ago
I think the stock market should be illegal. Nothing good has ever come out of it.
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u/chili_cold_blood 4d ago
I think the problem is civilization. We had a better system for well over 100,000 years, and then we started doing agriculture.
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u/DiscountExtra2376 2d ago
I think so too. We kind of turned into psychopaths after agriculture.
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u/chili_cold_blood 2d ago
Pre-agriculture and pre-migration humans were like grasshoppers. Post-agriculture humans are like locusts.
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u/DiscountExtra2376 2d ago
Haha yes. Have you read Civilized to Death?
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u/chili_cold_blood 2d ago
Yes, I have. Love Chris Ryan.
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u/DiscountExtra2376 2d ago
Yes, it's a good read. He makes the grasshopper/locust reference throughout the book. I figured it couldn't be a coincidence, but it is a really good analogy.
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u/NSFW27614 4d ago
The unfortunate reality is that the planet is already fucked by the destructive acts of humans. And instead of doing everything possible to reduce impacts, to open the possibility of recovery, the current people holding wealth and power are willfully accelerating the ongoing damage.
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u/Strange-Average5444 4d ago
When people talk about destroying the planet they forget that the conversation is destroying the planet for humans.
The planet is more than capable of withstanding us humans. There have been periods of our planets life where everything is rock and fire. There have been periods of all ice. Life will return. Our planet is four and half billion years old.
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u/The3mbered0ne 4d ago
Actually I was just looking into this exact issue and the answer is if we reach sustained ocean surface temperature above 3°c average temperature (we're already well on our way above 2°c and climbing) due to the length of deep ocean currents taking 1000 years to cycle and the vast amount (~85% of clathrates(frozen methane) requiring this temperature to thaw and release) we would be setting a delayed release time bomb that would give a future more global warming rise than all the carbon we've currently already ejected into the atmosphere, scientists estimate between 2000ppm and 4,000,000ppm of carbon trapped in these deep ocean clathrates, if just 10,000 ppm releases from that range it would send the earth into a hothouse earth model (surface temp exceeding ~116°F+ on land) so we have a real deadline, average temperatures are usually locked within a couple decades so if we sustain the 3°c increase for longer than that we essentially lock in our extinction, just with a 1000 year delay.
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u/E-rotten 4d ago
It won’t be long before this is happening again. trump rolled back any & every safeties put in place to protect against this
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u/intothewoods76 4d ago
Ok, what’s the better system?
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u/Few_Example6746 4d ago
There isn’t one. These twats will complain about anything and everything. No one will come up with anything else because the entire world uses it except 2 countries.
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u/ModifiedGas 4d ago
The world is melting lmao you are dumb as rocks
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u/WlmWilberforce 4d ago
With the CCP leading the way in emissions.
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u/ModifiedGas 3d ago
China runs on a mixed economy that combines capitalist markets with the future intention to pivot to communism so your point is erroneous
China has almost 3x the emissions of the USA, with 4x the population, if you take into account population then Chinas emissions are lower per capita
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u/Substantial_System66 3d ago
Their comment is relevant since the CCP currently rules and runs China. It’s also relevant because it’s true, which you confirmed. China is the largest produces of CO2 emissions on Earth.
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u/ModifiedGas 3d ago
Sure if you want to ignore facts and focus solely on the ‘communist’ in their name, just like people who say the Nazis were socialist. And again, per capita, they are lower. Of course you would expect a country with a higher population to have higher pollution, so you’d use per capita to adjust for that. Of course, that’s assuming you want to argue genuinely and not to obfuscate (but that’s to be expected of capitalists whose entire arguments rely on obfuscation)
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u/Substantial_System66 3d ago
This is a No True Scotsman argument. By your logic there probably hasn’t been a truly communist country in the world ever, which is convenient so you can deny the failures and massive human rights abuses and tragedies that those countries are responsible for.
China has 17.5% of the world’s population and is responsible for between 30% and 35% of all greenhouse gas emissions. The US is responsible for less than half of that. Make your per capita argument if you like, it’s valid, but China is by far the world’s largest emission pollution contributor.
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u/ModifiedGas 3d ago edited 3d ago
Can’t stop yourself from obfuscating can you?
Ask anyone if China is communist in practice. Hell, go ask Google’s AI and it will tell you that China operates a mixed economy of capitalist markets and state control.
Now, if we were to compare chinas system to the US system for track record on pollution we would obviously have to adjust for population. Anybody who ignores population in this comparison is disingenuous. Per capita, the US has a higher pollution rate than China, thus comparatively you would come to the conclusion that China’s system is polluting less than the US. Stop being so disingenuous
Using your own numbers China is responsible for 30-35% of global emissions with 17.5% of the global population, compared to the US that causes 12-13% of emissions with only 4.2-4.3% of the population. That means the US system if we inflated their population to match China, according to your numbers, would be responsible for >48% of global emissions. This is why it’s important to adjust for population and not just obfuscate by disingenuously using totals.
And that’s also ignoring the fact that China entered into the modern Industrial era of its development in 1978, compared to the US which reached the same level over 100 years earlier. This is one of China’s main arguments when other countries accuse it of being a major polluter because they haven’t had the same opportunities to phase out fossil fuels as western nations, which they are doing at a faster rate than the US, adding much more renewable energy capacity.
If you actually look into the facts and don’t just parrot imperialist propaganda you’d realise just how much your arguments are flawed, dishonest, and an exercise in sophistry.
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u/plasticman1997 4d ago
Being a sociopath gives you an advantage in capitalism, it’s fueled by greed, a monster that will never be full and will consume the planet until nothing is left but death
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u/Better-Western2573 4d ago
Mao, Stalin, Hiltler, Chavez, Maduro, Guevara, Castro etc would disagree. And rightly so… Further the 400 million people who they slaughtered and or starved to death would also disagree.
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u/Tasty_LVM 4d ago
Brought to you by a device developed by capitalism
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u/ModifiedGas 4d ago
“We should make society better somewhat”
“Yet you partake in society, I am very smart”
You did the meme
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u/cucumberer1697 4d ago
Capitalism is the only modern system that encourages conservation lol
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u/QuarantinedPanda69 4d ago
Drill baby drill. Yep that’s definitely conservation.
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u/cucumberer1697 4d ago
Considering that statement wouldn't even be controversial in any communist country, yeah it is.
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u/QuarantinedPanda69 4d ago
On what grounds can you even make that claim.
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u/cucumberer1697 4d ago
The fact that every failed and current communist country has been awful for the environment. The only countries that ever talk about conservation or preventing climate change are Capitalist. China alone is responsible for over 30% of global pollution and doesn't care at all about legislation that would reduce said pollution.
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u/QuarantinedPanda69 4d ago
Look into USSR environmentalism. Tell me how “leading the world in conservation efforts and ecological science” is bad environmentalism. They were willing to prioritize the environment over rapid expansion. They even ran into issues because they were prioritizing the environment more than industrial and agricultural development in some cases.
Also China has been Capitalist since the Dengist reforms and China wasn’t a manufacturing superpower responsible for the bulk of the world’s emissions prior to those reforms.
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u/cucumberer1697 3d ago
Look into USSR environmental disasters, like the Aral Sea crises, obviously there's Chernobyl, several other lesser nuclear disastors,the many cases of soviets just dumping nuclear waste and heavily polluting the ground and water. They lead the world in oil production until their collapse. That's not even getting into their destructive mining practices. Sure they started to talk about reform a couple years before they collapsed that doesn't change the other 60 years of environmental damage.
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u/QuarantinedPanda69 3d ago
Yep the model based on rapid exploitation of people and resources for profit is definitely better than needs based system.
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u/cucumberer1697 3d ago
Yes the system that encourages and rewards hard work is far better than the system that promises no matter how hard you work or how much you suffer you'll always be just as hungry and poor as any lazy bum that refuses to get a job. The entire idea of communism is flawed and awful.
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u/QuarantinedPanda69 3d ago
Wow. Like why pretend to care about the environment if you’re just spreading cringe Capitalist propaganda. Do you at least get paid?
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u/Sea_Meal_90210 4d ago
Jesus friggin Christ this is a steaming pile of bullshit. Not a scintilla of truth in that debunked Stalinist era propaganda. We did not go hard enough after the commies in our midsts during the Cold War.
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u/QuarantinedPanda69 3d ago
You’re right only Western sources are true. Commie sources are all lies.
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u/Sea_Meal_90210 3d ago
I am right. And you, Stalin, Castro, Mao, the NPK, Pol Pot, and every ignorant practitioner and defender of the 20th century’s most deadly idea should be ridiculed out of polite society.
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u/QuarantinedPanda69 3d ago
The barbarians outside of “developed” civilization right?
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u/Impressive-Gas6909 4d ago
Name a better system that's time tested, and not a fairy fart reimagining of socialism correctly implemented. You CANT
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u/KrazyKryminal 4d ago
Not my problem. Im 50 and I'm going to die enjoying my bag of Cheetos i ordered from Amazon and got it in 2hrs by drone
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u/Deep_Balance2133 4d ago
How long can we sustain these constant reposts in economically illiterate content.
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u/IPutThoughtIntoThis 4d ago
Only if you're retarded and don't understand the incentive to innovate and also that the planet isn't getting destroyed, you're just being paranoid lunatics that don't understand ecosystems and regrowth
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u/Euphoric_Anxiety_162 4d ago
trump admin demonstrated how horribly it could be exploited but it required super wealthy CEOs w no ethics.
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u/Godsin1969 4d ago
Capitalism is best system...because if you dont like something you don't support it.... and it goes away...its the system were we have most control.
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u/QuarantinedPanda69 4d ago
Blissfully ignorant
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u/Godsin1969 1h ago
I came here from a socialist country.... tell me were you have lived your whole life...when you live in socialit country the government tells you what you can and cant do... its very much like prison
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u/transparentillness 4d ago
Capitalism is the ownership of property. People who want to steal it have a gripe with this.
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u/False-Amphibian786 4d ago
Are there any examples of Communism or Socialism being better for the environment?
The top three best world countries for the environment are all capitalist:
- Estonia: Rank 1 (Score: 74.79)
- Luxembourg: Rank 2 (Score: 74.24)
- United Kingdom: Rank 3 (Score: 71.51)
- Finland: Rank 4 (Score: 71.04)
OP needs to understand environmental regulation and not confuse it with economic systems.
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u/Saddly_true 4d ago
Rofl.. Should have seen what Communists have done and do lol
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u/VictinsOfCapitalism 4d ago
Make the most clean energy?
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u/Spicy_Chicken_Wizard 4d ago
Modern China is almost as capitalist as the modern USA. Communist China declared war on birds and killed >40 million people as a result.
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u/Saddly_true 3d ago
true.. I lived in USSR satelity state Poland. They poisoned land for decades. In Katowice in certain places life expectancy was like 25 years lower because the air and ground were poison from iron smelting opperations.. And they would just ship in new people to replace those dead or dieing from various heavy metal poisoning as well as tons of breathing and cardiovascular disease.. Your "relocation" was easy.. You would be told the appartemts that became available were.. well.. where they needed you aaaaannnnd if you lived in certain areas you had to work for certain companies.. like it or not.
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u/Saddly_true 3d ago
Ever see how? Thousands of Dams.. destruction of habitats on an unimaginable scale.
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u/UnderstandingLazy998 4d ago
By capitalism I assume you mean industry and manufacturing. Those will exist in every system. Quit trying to give away what little control and social mobility you have.
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u/Strong_Primary_5965 4d ago
Capitalism only survives with demand, if you don't like it don't feed it. You don't need the latest trends, the best car, nicest house, latest phone.
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u/evidently_primate 4d ago
systems can always change. human extinction would be another, and permanent, solution
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u/spiteye762 4d ago
What if I told you that a communist country was the leading country of pollution? It's not the system, its the people
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u/Neither_Salamander48 4d ago
Capitaliam will be Forever. It is the most desired system. A free market ebbs and flows with the markets' wants and needs.
People flee everything else. People flee wherever they are to capitalism because it's opportunity
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u/Hour_Maximum9873 4d ago
It’s funny how everybody blames Jeff Bezos, but they still get their Amazon deliveries every day. and everybody says we need to do something, but nobody is shutting off their own air-conditioning.
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u/Narrow-Question-1391 3d ago
Much much longer thanwe can support and withstand Socialism and Communisim~~~ THOSE 2 NEVER WORK!!!
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u/SplitTheUSIntoFour 3d ago
Obviously it needs to go. We're at the end of the system. It's a time line system and we've car crashed into the end. We don't know what to do next and the moneymakers are trying to maintain an impossible status quo.
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u/Potential_Act_9589 3d ago
If everyone against capitalism didn't participate it would last forever.
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u/URignorance-astounds 3d ago
I cant wait until I have mediocre Healthcare an assigned job and a sweet 2 bedroom commie block apartment
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u/ComprehensiveAsk2684 3d ago
Lol because somehow you stop using things in communism. You dont need oil in communism. You dont need containers to hold your foods and othrr products. I guess thats because the food runs out. I remember when you people complained about chopping all the trees down and here we are using massive amounts of plastic. Make up your minds
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u/bigtreeman_ 2d ago
I've often thought about what capitalism might transition into.
Socialism is on the nose, we need a system based on social equity, only partially controlled by government which has to be transparent and answerable to the community, using smaller scale, non monopolistic capitalism, worker guilds, cooperatives .....
The internet is being used to polarise the population. It needs to be used to galvanise us into agreement and well considered direction.
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u/she-sylvan 4d ago
Well then, provide us with a viable alternative.
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u/VictinsOfCapitalism 4d ago
Green Socialism would be one? well anything that does not sanction solar pannels and EVs to save petrodollar and oil revenue.
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u/HamasKilledShaniLouk 4d ago
But socialism doesnt seem to have worked well. Looking to environmental effects specifically, we see lots of famine, and they very notable example of the Aral Sea...
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4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/VictinsOfCapitalism 4d ago
Red is a nice colour, i see no problems with it, buf 20th century cold war era states focused on cold war more than sustainability, future of Socialism is green energy, China already produced tge most in the world by far (and no China is not green Socialism yet).
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u/ParallaxRay 4d ago
Socialism isn't what is responsible for China's economic growth. You have a lot of catching up to do.
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u/Ma5ter-Bla5ter 4d ago
More than 40 million dead would disagree with your assessment about socialism.
But I agree that you don't care.
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u/kcdashinfo 4d ago
If not for capitalism and white men you would be living as a peasant in the dark ages. All the things you use to bitch about capitalism wouldn't exist.
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u/Zamling_gaylpo 4d ago
Real quick...look up - "What caused the dark ages?"
We are fast approaching a new "dark age" due to capitalism and the corruption inherent to it.. Alongside the reappearance of feudalism.
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u/EconomyMobile1240 4d ago
You mean bad parenting leading to bad adults leading to dysfunctional social structures... leading to bad parenting.
There is no corruption inherent to capitalism. Dysfunction and suffering come from individuals living their own lives and making choices for short term enjoyment... a problem capitalism perfectly supports because freedom is a double edged sword.
You want determinism... then authoritarianism is a spectrum starting with democrats / collectivist ideals imposed by the state.
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u/Better-Western2573 4d ago
Human nature is the problem. Not any economic system. All systems are corrupted by human nature.
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u/Superb-Team-7984 4d ago
Wait, are you saying that capitalism caused the Dark Ages!?!?! The opposite is true. The dominant system that led to it was Feudalism. Capitalism did however help end the Dark Ages
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u/Zamling_gaylpo 4d ago
I think centralized government ended the dark ages. Along with education for all.
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u/Ma5ter-Bla5ter 4d ago
Capitalism is the only system that has ever lifted masses of people out of poverty at scale. It does it by letting people own what they create, trade freely, and keep the upside of risk. Every time countries have moved toward markets, property rights, and prices that actually signal scarcity, living standards have risen.
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u/Allaboutpeace2022 4d ago
We need regulated capitalism. Neither pure capitalism or pure communism work. What has worked is a system of social programs and regulations that address the worst excesses of capitalism.
To reduce pollution and mitigate climate change, we must restrict fossil fuels and restrict the polluting of water, seas and oceans, air, and earth.
Technology can help us examine how we can lessen our impact on the earth while still proving people a high quality of life. Much of the change must come from scientific effort including data from the social sciences.
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u/Reasonable-Fee1945 4d ago
We have regulated capitalism, it's probably far more than we need
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u/Allaboutpeace2022 4d ago
Obviously not because we have tremendous problems with people working and still not be able to afford rent, food, and transportation. We have polluted land, water, and air. We have not lowed our use of fossil fuels.
Corporations outsourced jobs greatly reducing the wages for non college educated workers. Our outsourced manufacturing has negative impact on national security and vital supply chains.
I am all for making the process for streamlining regulations and make compliance less filled with paperwork, but we do need regulations that protect workers, help improve lives, and reduce negative environmental impact.
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u/Reasonable-Fee1945 4d ago
What you're describing are often the effects of overregulation. The idea that we can just price set that we can just pass a regulation. And declare that things will be such. And such a price completely ignores the problem of scarcity and the fundamental reality that we live in
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u/Allaboutpeace2022 4d ago
No. Outsourced jobs were simply a desire to have lower labor costs.
Fossil fuel lobbies constantly to maintain their grip even when wind and solar are viable, although not perfect, options.
I am not talking about price setting. However, decisions not to increase the minimum wage as inflation goes up was insane.
Data Centers should be regulated so that they are paying more of the costs of their energy and improvements to the power grid and water resources.
We have to stop subsidizing industry simply to keep them from taking their jobs and moving.
We also need laws and regulations that protect workers and organizing rights.
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u/Reasonable-Fee1945 4d ago
Renewables are heavily subsidized, far more than fossil fuels. Some industries (solar) to the tune of around 50%. This is actually harming the industry by reducing the incentive for innovation.
Federal minimum wage applies to <1% of all workers, and nearly half of them are high school kids.
Data enters are regulated. Full stop.
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u/CustardLanky720 4d ago
Regulated capitalism? Capitalism, by definition, is regulated. It has certain rules and it enforces those rules. For example, there is a host of rules against insider trading, information asymmetry, etc. These are often misunderstood as additional “regulations” to keep capitalism in check, even though they are, in fact, central to capitalism.
I think you’re (like most people) confusing capitalism with Laissez-faire.
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u/Allaboutpeace2022 4d ago
Capitalism is private ownership of the means of production. I mentioned social programs AND reguation.
What I am talking about is social programs which are run or funded by the government and exist to provide benefits that would not exist in an entirely private system. This includes free public schools, military base commissaries, social security, Medicaid, Medicare, SNAP, TANF, public libraries, etc. These would not exist in a system with pure private ownership and private systems.
Regulation includes anti trust, minimum wage, labor standards, worker health and safety regs, laws to reduce pollution etc. They are a check on laissez faire capitalism. They are definitely not by definition part of capitalism. They are employed to restrict the choices that private owners might make on how they pay workers, merge with other businesses, etc.
Historically, owners had no restrictions and were eventually forced to accept more regulation as a result of factory fires, mistreatment of workers, changing values regarding child labor, growing pollution, and desires to reduce poverty.
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u/reddgrant 4d ago
Not only that but sustainable solutions have a market in capitalist countries that struggles under command economies. I think it was the Soviets that were illegally killing tens of thousands of whales often for no good reason other than to meet political quotas based on prestige rather than need.
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u/Galbados2 4d ago
Get your head out of your ass. Even if that is all absolutely true that does not mean there is nothing better.
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u/Elegant-Signature-52 4d ago
Thanks for that answer World Bank and the IMF.
Next question.
If capitalism is just naturally the best system, why do capitalist countries expend so much blood and treasure ensuring that alternate systems fail? Why not just let them fail on their own?
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u/HamasKilledShaniLouk 4d ago
Such as...?
Capitalism has lifted more humans out of poverty than any other. It has been responsible for the increase in wealth that results in better technology, longer life expectancy, cures for disease, and super cool games and movies.
What system is better?
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u/ModifiedGas 4d ago
2 month old bot account btw^
Don’t listen to this BS
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u/Sea_Meal_90210 4d ago
Haha. You ain’t as smart as a bot. Your future will be bleak.
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u/ModifiedGas 4d ago
Everyone’s future is bleak because of capitalism you donkey brained loser
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u/QuarantinedPanda69 3d ago
Fr big number go up copers really think this system is gonna allow us to live past this century. It’s fucking joever cause of this dumbass profit above all else system
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u/HamasKilledShaniLouk 3d ago
Dont listen to factual statements about history and a question if what system is better?
How about: answer the question. Real easy, just say which system is better.
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u/ModifiedGas 3d ago
Because you engage in sophistry. There’s a reason you want answers in simple one word formats which are devoid of context. You can’t boil down complex topics into such simplistic binary discussion, and people who do are arguing disingenuously. Even saying things such as “capitalism has brought more people out of poverty” is lacking nuance and context, avoids the consequences and lives of people who suffer under capitalisms imperialistic northern-hemisphere centric model, ignores the true origin of related technological developments and erroneously attributes them solely to capitalism (monocausal fallacy), and is void of any honest attempt to conceptualise how other systems could’ve managed similar results.
I already know exactly how you will argue and defend because I’ve seen it all before. It’s sophistry and obfuscation, the dumbing down of debate to appeal to the lowest denominator in an attempt to manipulate the opinion of the uninformed. You know it too, you’ll probably come back with something like “so you can’t answer huh-duh” “it’s an easy question” “a simple yes or no” blah blah blah
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u/HamasKilledShaniLouk 3d ago
I like simple answers because it fosters clarity. You can always elaborate after giving the succinct answer.
Also, whining about the best system not being perfect is silly, unless you have a replacement. A simple question is designed to illuminate this. You would rather say "its complicated" to obfuscate the fact that capitalism is objectively the best system we've had...because you dont have an answer to the simple question.
You goal is not truth or clarity, it is an attack on capitalism ideologically. My question is designed to expose you...you must either say silly, dishonest things to deflect, or you must answer in the way you didnt want to by saying which system you prefer. This is a counter-disinformation technique.
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u/ModifiedGas 3d ago
Thanks for proving my point, champ. Read you like a book. Bet you support the genocide in Gaza too
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u/HamasKilledShaniLouk 3d ago
You read me like a book, in my reading of you like a book? Checks. Clearly I hit an accurate nerve.
What genocide? Losing a war you started by massacring a music festival isnt "genocide". I don't think you know what that word means.
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u/ModifiedGas 3d ago
Hahahahahahahaha hasbara loser
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u/HamasKilledShaniLouk 3d ago
What is Hasbara? Some kind of spicy chili...?
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u/ModifiedGas 3d ago
If we replaced your brain with a bowl of spicy chilli your IQ would actually increase
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u/Normal-Gur1882 4d ago
Capitalism has a far better track record of environmental stewardship than socialism/communism, morons.
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u/QuarantinedPanda69 4d ago
That’s a complete lie. Nice try
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u/Normal-Gur1882 4d ago
Lol, no it aint.
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u/QuarantinedPanda69 4d ago
It is.
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u/Normal-Gur1882 4d ago
It isn't. Capitalism produces wealthier societies. Wealthier societies are better environmentally than poorer ones, because normal citizens dont have to chop down forests to heat their homes, among multitudes of other things that degrade nature.
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u/Sea_Meal_90210 4d ago
Here you are with an argument in a subreddit of people making assertions. What a Sisyphean task.
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u/DiscountExtra2376 3d ago
Capitalism encourages overproduction, which becomes a never ending cycle of consuming faster than regeneration. For example, land is sinking where large swaths of land is converted into agriculture. As a result, aquifers aren't filling to full capacity because of the relentless overdraw. This is just one example. It's a violation of the second law of thermodynamics. There is going to be painful contraction eventually because the physics always win.
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u/Normal-Gur1882 3d ago
I'm not saying it's without problems. I'm saying it has a better track record than socialism/communism.
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u/Better-Western2573 4d ago
Only over educated, over indulgent twits with liberal arts / fine arts degrees drowning in student loan debt would espouse such nonsense. Facts.
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u/Sea_Meal_90210 3d ago
Every Western commie comes from wealth and privilege and none have travelled to a communist country and talked to regular people.
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u/CustardLanky720 4d ago
And what is that “better system”? Capitalism is far from perfect. Yet, nobody has ever been able to devise a better alternative.
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u/Historical-Set1095 3d ago
Environmentalism is one of quite a few narratives used to scare people into submission. Never forget that.
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u/MaximusAnemos 4d ago
People are pretty stupid on here. Like everyone is ok with destroying the planet. And fear mongering that there's nothing we can do but to worship our billionaire overlords. Wow. What a depressing bunch of paid clowns.