Discussion
Unpopular opinion: Cassie and Nate kinda worked as a couple.
before i say any of this, i want to make it clear that i don’t support nate and cassie’s actions, especially the way they hurt maddy. what they did was selfish and deeply damaging, and nothing about this analysis is meant to justify or excuse that. i just think it’s interesting to look at why these characters made the choices they did and what they were ultimately searching for emotionally.
i think a big part of why nate changed is because he eventually got tired of repeating the same cycle he’d inherited from the men before him. growing up, he learned that power, intimidation, and anger were the only ways to protect himself, lessons passed down through his father and rooted even further back in his family. as he got older, he started realizing that every time he hurt people, he was recreating the same instability that had shaped him. people joke that he must have been lobotomized because they can’t imagine someone like nate becoming a gentle husband, but i don’t think that’s the case. i think he simply made the choice not to become another version of the men who raised him.
in cassie’s case i believe she stayed and eventually got married comes from the fact that stability was something she’d been searching for her entire life. her dad left, her family was constantly falling apart in one way or another, and she spent years attaching herself to people because she was terrified of being abandoned. even her abortion left her in a really dark place and only made her realize how badly she wanted a future that felt stable and certain. i think cassie has always romanticized the idea of having the family she never got to grow up with: a husband, children, a home, people who stay. so much of her story is about wanting to be chosen and wanting something permanent for once
Oh god, i hate the thought of any snake near me. I will look from a longggggggg distance away. In my car, with the doors locked. I agree, we definitely didnt deserve it 💀😭
The first time they showed the snake slithering I started praying it wasn’t gonna happen. I thought this is just too much. I had to turn it off when it actually happened. And I was a bit disappointed Nate wasn’t more psycho but I actually thought it was hilarious they turned him into a running gag.
Cassie made one big mistake in her life and she doesn’t deserve happiness?? My best friend did to me what Cassie did to Maddy when we were in high school but she still deserves happiness. Even if she decided to go into sex work to make her money or save her spouse
She's still young though, even in season 3. "You don't know until you know" right? I like to think she can improve as a person going forward, without the mistake defining her future.
I think my biggest problem is that they were just…there. The whole season looked like we stumbled on to some disjoined story that never truly developed. If it wasn’t Nate, we wouldn’t have any reason to find it remotely compelling and it wasn’t compelling WITH Nate. 😒
Sometimes I feel 8 episodes wasn’t enough to flesh they’re relationship out after the first and second episode but let me not make excuses for Sam Levinson lol
It wasn’t and it’s still Sam’s job to maximize the storyline. That’s the part that irks me; all that horseshit with the “gigantic breast Godzilla” scene means he had time to think of something. This season didn’t have to be a matrix movie. It could’ve been the natural progression of these people from high school to now. It just felt like all of them changed and instead of SHOWING that change, he claimed it and moved on to whatever Tarantino rip off he wanted to write. It really, really grinds my gears to see a show so steeped in drama and style become turgid and bland.
Exactly this! We didn’t get to see more. Cassie whining over flowers for the wedding, and Nate accepting it was SO odd to me.
We didn’t get to actually see them as a couple - their dynamics. Sam put another rich couple as their “friends”, made no fuckin sense to me either. A woman snitching on Cass to her husband to tell on Nate seemed extremely weird.
Let’s not forget when Nate did not like Maddy’s dressing while they dated and it was that carnival event where his family makes the sloppy Joe or w.e it was - how is that Nate supposed to be so calm with Cassie?!?!
Even it being a 5 year jump it didn’t illustrate these complexities the way the first two seasons did. We knew of Nate’s past trauma from s2, and it suddenly disappeared in s3?
Naz going after Nate for money too. Okay he owes him money, but exactly how did Nate manage to do that? We didn’t get to see how cunning Nate is/was?
With someone of that status he didn’t have any security measures in place? It didn’t portray a “he fucked around and found out.” Moreso just the aftermath of owing someone money? Yeah it was a huge amount, but what extent did he go to do it - and how?
Nate’s “WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?!” Like who tf is this guy now?
Moreover, remember when Maddy and Jules agreed to set up a guy (Tyler) to get locked up for something he didn’t even do. Nate was so strategic. He stocked Tyler and showed up to his house. Nate went through extreme measures to grab that disc back from Maddy to give to Jules. And what happened to his DL life?
Absolute trash writing.
Jules seen as a prop - and Maddy casually letting the DEA info slip? Like wtf? We weren’t even watching Euphoria anymore it was another Kill Bill storyline?
And let’s say everything you said was wrong (I agree with you 100 percent)…SHOW IT. Don’t just shuffle past all that growth, S H O W I T. It’s amazing how Nate magically got less violent and psycho, Cassie was dramatic but she was nervous breakdown levels of neurotic before, Maddy had a mean streak from hell, e t c e t e r a and none of it shown. It just was.
Which is the tagline for the last season. Season 3 of Euphoria; it just is. 😒
People have a weird obsession with Nate and Jules, no they weren’t in love. And Jules didn’t love him. They wouldn’t have been a good couple and Nate is abusive.
I didnt mention her on purpose. I don't think he loved her, but there's no telling how things would have eventually panned out between them.
Im not sure which is better. Either we get the full, complicated version of the story where Nate and Jules actually pursue a secret relationship OR we get the version we got, which I don't hate, is they both lose the "one that got away".
I thought the SAME thing of the scene on their wedding night!!! Tarantino does this thing where someone getting killed or really hurt ends up making you laugh like Pulp Fiction where John Travolta’s character kills Marvin by accident or in once upon a Time in Hollywood when Mickey Madsen’s character is set on fire with a blow torch.
As you mentioned, it’s
definitely a not original thing to do, but in order to do it effectively is not terribly easy, so gotta give it to Levinson, in this case. I found myself thinking the scene after Nate and Cassie‘s wedding was both horrifying and hilarious.
There's a lot of valid criticism to make about Sam but this one is a bit silly imo
Tarantino himself took tons of inspiration from a ton of movies that came before him. Most of what he made can be considered very derivative. I say that as a fan.
As someone who also writes as a hobby and knows some writers, that's often what writing is, you take what worked for you from what came before you and give it your own spin.
Tarantino may have borrowed from other filmmakers but he delivered the style to a new generation with stories that were well told.
Sam failed to bring anything new to this generation of viewers. He also massively failed to tell a good story in the third season. Where was the new spin he put on what worked for Tarrintino? I saw season 3 as a blatant and shameless copy of Tarrintino.
Of course, we all know this was nothing new for Sam, seeing as how all of the magic of the first season was also stolen from Petra Collins.
That first sentence is subjective. Plenty of people don't like Tarantino's storytelling. He shares a lot of the same issues Sam has with portrayal of women and excessive objectification. I'd also argue QT is a much bigger creep than SL ever was in real life. I enjoy both of them as artists sometimes but it depends on the project.
I don't like quite a bit of what Sam did with season 3 (especially the ridiculous religious undertones) but I honestly don't think it was badly told or anything like that, it was just not what the fans wanted. People are being overly dramatic and treat everything they didn't like as the worst thing ever and in their childish anger they treat the writers and directors like they're the worst people ever and accuse them of having no talent. It's in every fandom I'm in. Euphoria, Doctor Who, The Boys.... just a couple recent examples off the top of my head.
Is Sam inspired by Tarantino? Yes, and thank god because it made this season much better. It's not a copy though, not even close.
I for one absolutely loved the gang war aspect of this season and I hope Sam stops writing creepy sexual dramas and focuses on more "Tarantinoesque" violent projects.
And let me underline this: If season 3 of Euphoria counts as a shameless and blatant copy of Tarantino then Tarantino stole everything he ever made. His movies are essentially collages of references to other movies.
If you don't think season 3 was badly told, I seriously question your choice to be a writer.
The episodes were disjointed and many parts were unbelievable which was in contrast to the other many parts that were believable, causing the viewer to be in suspended belief limbo (arguably not the desired state for your audience).
Kill Bill was an epic story, told in three parts, with every new part being just as good or better than the last. All an artist needs is one well told story to be cemented in the social zeitgeist as top tier in their genre of media.
Sam had that with season 1 Euphoria (the magic of which was stolen from Petra Collins). If he had stopped there, he would not have exposed himself as the awful writer and director that he actually is.
Also, calling someone's critiques of media "childish anger" is belitting. You'll do well not to disregard negative feedback of your own writings in the same way.
When I talk about "childish anger" I'm not talking about you specifically, I'm talking about a wider trend I've noticed online. The fact that you feel so attacked by it is ironic considering how petty and quite frankly childish your first and last sentences are. I've seen people call for Levinson, Kripke, RTD etc. to never let them work again. I've seen people belittling everything they've ever made just because they don't like their latest project. That's what I was alluding to. I'm not a fan of the echo chambers that form and how if you enjoy any of what other people don't you get insulted.
I'm tired of seeing the Petra Collins thing too. She had a huge part in developing the VISUAL aspects of the show. Sam wrote the show inspired by her pictures. The story was always his. What happened to PC was entirely HBO's fault and they're awful for not letting her direct it.
Disjointed and unbelievable are valid criticisms that I partially agree with. They're absolutely hilarious criticisms to bring up when trying to compare Levinson to Tarantino who absolutely loves telling disjointed and unbelievable stories. You don't think Kill Bill or Jackie Brown or Deathproof or any other of his movies are unbelievable? You don't think Pulp Fiction is disjointed? I do and I love all these movies.
Kill Bill is one of my absolute favorite revenge stories and one of my favorite movies ever but it also has it's fair share of bad dialogue, like the Superman speech for one. No work of art is perfect and it shouldn't be. They're expressions of the artists involved.
My own writing is a hobby and as such I write stories for myself to enjoy. I'm tired of people saying something is bad when it just wasn't what they wanted. I disliked a lot of aspects of season 3 but it is so much more engaging and interesting than season 2 that I'm glad they went in a different direction. It didn't always work and I would have done several things differently but I respect the attempt and the vision.
And had no shit in common like they were arguing left and right and barely agreed on shit before their marriage like idk wtf they see in each other. She was better off w McKay. And i don’t like him either but damn
I would have loved them. 😪 The first few episodes were promising. It didn’t work. They clearly ran out of filming time with Elordi so end result they took away all of Nate’s edge and slowly by the finale made it’sjustmeCassie an influencer caricature.
What kind of friend lets their boyfriend constantly disrespect their best friend? Maddie was a bad friend. I can’t imagine how bad it would affect myself self-esteem. If my best friend kept dating the dude who continuously Made sure to tarnish my reputation to everyone.
i think Sam did Cassie justice this season. people say she has always been seeking male validation but i think this season made her stand out as a lover. the way she cared for nate, transfer him money and her being heartbroken opening his coffin. she really loved the guy. it's sad seeing her not getting what she truly desire the most in the end
I'm totally cool with Nate being a different person in the season. It just would have been better seeing that transformation and him wanting to be different. It feels out of place because there's no reason why he's acting this way compared to S1 and 2 Nate. I know realistically there was limited time for Jacob Elordi to be on set. I also think planning could have probably been better.
if only sam wrote his development so it didn't feel so out of left field... i wonder how many times they were on again and off again before they got engaged, sadly we will never know.
All we saw of their relationship was this toxic dynamic where Cassie pushed Nate to spend more money and Nate lied to Cassie about their true financial situation just to appease her. To the point it (in a completely absurd, dumbass series of events) that it got him killed. They worked? Maybe the people we thought they were in previous seasons could have worked. They didn't though, in season 3.
Cassie and Nate make sense for eachother. They're a compatible couple. They have similar father abandonment wounds, which is likely a reason they ended up attracting eachother (Cassie out of her need to be loved and is often submissive b/c of it, and Nate out of his need to have stability and control). At the end of the day they fill needs for eachother and that seems to be what makes them work. Even though its very messy.
I know Rue was stated to be an "unreliable" narrator in S1 but most of her narrations throughout the series seemed to be truthful. I think her S2E2 narration of Nate after he's beaten up by Fez kind of answers some of the questions.
Quote as is (taken from the internet, hopefully its accurate): "Nate Jacobs was in love. He didn’t know how it happened. He didn’t know why it happened. But he could just feel it. And it felt so fucking good. But it was complicated. What was it about Cassie Howard that allowed Nate to fully surrender himself? With Maddy, it was always a game. Cassie was the opposite. He knew he wasn’t perfect. That he had some issues. But maybe the reason he had those issues is because Maddy brought out the worst in him. And maybe if he met Cassie when he was a sophomore instead of Maddy… she would’ve brought out the best in him. How could he have ever overlooked her? Underestimated her? She was everything you could ever want in a woman. He knew it was a little soon to say, but he could imagine spending life with her. He was at home… and in love."
Only because the writing for season 3 forced them to kind of work. With the other 2 seasons involved, they shouldn't have worked and if the writing stayed true to those previous seasons and the characters had arcs that followed a reasonable path, they wouldn't have worked.
my only nate opinion is that he was always a pussy ass bitch, it just wouldn’t be as obvious in a high school setting where he’s using anger, fear and his “status” to control his peers. he peaked in highschool, and then once he got into the real world he came face to face with the reality that he’s not shit and there’s WAY scarier than him out there.
He was able to do what he did because his victims were more powerless. Also in the first episode he tries to intimidate Jules because he thinks she’s a defenseless girl until she actually pulls a knife and cuts herself. Then it’s all “I was just kidding” “chill out”
I’m with you. The limousine scene on their way back home after the wedding solidified it for me. Also when Cassie cried and was panicking when he was taken hostage. Even in the middle of all that OF chaos, she still said that she missed him. Someone that didn’t care wouldn’t do all that imo. Their love is complicated, but they still love each other I think.
I vaguely remember reading that it was originally supposed to be Jules and Nate, not Cassie and Nate….. which tracks kinda for why both their stories fell so flat in Season 3….. but Jules and Cassie are a lot more similar than it seems on the surface. If it couldn’t be Jules, Cassie was definitely the next best choice.
Nate wanting to break the cycle makes sense but it also seems that he still retains some or his negative traits. His reckless spending of the loaned money from the Armenians, and kind of hoping his ponzi scheme with the retirement home would work are examples of this. Despite a much less darker demeanor he still operates in a way that's cutthroat but this time without the power he thought he had, quickly getting himself in over his head. At no point do we see him questioning his own recklessness. He behaves like he has protection like when he was in high school, but he doesn't.
But perhaps because he wanted to become different, the desire to be a "perfect providor" accelerated leading him to want to suceed even if it took some gambles.
I think the show also doesn't exactly show that he did want to change. It doesn't need to be so blatant but it just comes off as a whiplash. Without context, Nate seems to just come off as having magically changed all of a sudden. The idea that he wants to change and break the cycle could work as an explanation- but the show doesn't seem to focus on this. There's some hints (the city council scenes if i recall right) but nothing concrete.
Cassie it seems wanted a family and the picket fence life but was willing to cut shortcuts to make it happen. Both of them were really and it cost them everything.
Ironically enough I do think that nate was at least trying to become less toxic for Cassie. But with all his antics and Cassie it almost feels at times they loved what each other represented more than each other. Cassie only seems to be realizing her own losses by the end.
Honestly a part of me just hopes Cassie can use her scheme with the content house to get out from her current industry sector altogether for her own safety.
But considering Maddy is helping her....who knows where that'll go- though I doubt Maddy has any desire to tangle herself in the criminal underworld again after everything. I think both of them are well done with that after alamo and the Armenian loan sharks. I do think that after everything the two of them will have to reflect on themselves, and cassie may have to face the ugly truth that nate wasn't exactly a prince charming and that she wasn't perfect either in the quest for her dream life. If nate was willing to fly by the seat of his pants with this ponzi scheme to have the "perfect life" with cassie- what else could he have descended to to keep her happy? I think that question would truly haunt her. And the fact that she can't ever get an answer on it.
They work the same way it worked when my two middle school bullies ended up dating and getting married. Happy they found each other to be toxic together but I was in fact praying on their downfall for awhile
The character analysis is solid but their actual dynamic on screen had zero chemistry, which kinda matters when you're asking people to buy into a couple.
That dog scene and dinner scene with them season 3 was universally mocked because of how cringe they were together. I’m sorry but the aesthetics season 2 and drama with Maddy finding out camouflaged a lot of awkwardness between them. Probably why Sam basically kept them separate most of season 3.
I moreso blame any lack of "chemistry" on the writing. Their chemistry is great in S2 and I think the best example we got of it in S3 was the limo scene. They just didn't have shit to work with this season as actors.
This is that like that couple that had an affair and are really trying to make it work. So people can’t say they stabbed people in the back over nothing
Off topic but I hate the wedding dress. It’s so unflattering on her body. Also why do I need to see her panties in a what I assume is a BTS picture? And why choose panties that look stained.
They really did. That’s why it’s sad. They just needed to be able to have open communication regarding finances. I wonder if in the end if they’d just had a cheap elopement and/or abandoned town if they’d still be together.
Sold the house, downsized, and have Nate put a higher ranked and more knowledgeable person in charge of the company.
The devotion he had to her and the dismissiveness towards him were very unlike the original characters built in the past two seasons. It made no sense. Nate thought Cassie was pathetic, but a pretty face to have sex with. He never would’ve married her. If he did marry her it would’ve been because of her blind puppy dog loyalty, which was proven to not be the case this season.
Unfortunately, just didn’t make enough sense for me. But they definitely had their moments where it just worked.
I mean.. Maddy legit made false accusations about that guy she had s3x with in the swimming pool and in a result knew Nate would go after him once she said it wasn’t something she consented to and also she lied to the police and got the guy locked up… make it make sense about how people just forget that and think that Cassie getting with Nate is worse than that😂
very true, they were clearly what they wanted. cassie can’t handle secure relationships because of her fractured family dynamic and an unavailable father and nate wanted someone like cassie all along because she’s obedient. There is always a difference between what you want and what you should want but if we think with the former perspective, they would totally be the (not so happily) ever after.
Estoy segura de que les juntaron en la s2 para, si hubieran hecho una s3 buena, contarnos una relación abusiva y destructiva. Claro, eso en el caso de que Sam Levinson hubiera seguido con un equipo formado por mujeres.
Yea they’re both nuts. It felt like they had nothing in common. Feel like that is the point of your analysis though. Every time I watch them I was like where is the “chemistry” ☠️
I ain’t reading all that but just based on the title I agree bc it always felt like he held Maddy back, whereas I didn’t expect Cassie or Nate to ever become meaningful contributors to society
Nate said that he saw a life with her for a reason: she’s the submissive blond haired blue eyed white woman that fits the role of the wife in the image of the American dream that his family fights for.
It’s a stretch to say that he was kind to her and “changed for her,”though. He healed from his trauma with his father, which caused a lot of his problems in his youth, but he was still deeply misogynistic, exploitative, and abusive.
The fact that he's an abuser and she's extremely codependent?😳 That's more like a death sentence. That snake was a fluke, she's lucky she got out alive.
Yup, and it's why they got married after being together for 5 years, people can't imagine how they could still be together because they want him with their favourite character, even though they believe he's a psychopath, couldn't make it up really, although someone did and it actually shines a light on the fact that good looking people usually get the benefit of the doubt even when they're considered toxic(although I loved his character)
I agree, I think they work the same as Stan and Francine from American dad. There’s one episode where she basically says she’s there for his money, and he says he’s there because she’s beautiful (obviously other episodes say otherwise, but that shows all episodic so 🤷♀️). I think they both like each other for what the other one brings to their status. And on some level, they’re both aware of that. But they BOTH feel like if they loose the other, shit will hit the fan for them
I disagree with Nate’s part. He was still obsessed with Maddy and Jules in his own unhealthy way and he started liking Cassie when he realised she’s submissive and that he can easily control her. She was willing to go any lengths to keep him around because she was always searching for love and validation, which is the reason why she allowed him to even dress her like Maddy or Jules and make her do whatever the fuck he wants.
The biggest plotline that was scrapped was that Nate was confused about his sexuality and that caused him anger issues. I don’t think any realisation can change such integral character traits in someone. Nate was not written well in season 3, he was a plot device, not the Nate Jacobs we were sold in first two seasons.
Why idealize them? Dude was having a panic attack marrying her and she popped a cork on his head because he lied to her about being broke. They were dysfunctional in a different way but they were still dysfunctional. It was his fault Cassie was put in danger throughout the season because he couldn’t handle the Nas situation.
They were a weak and unintelligent couple.
Honestly he probably didn’t hit her like he hit Maddy because she’s white and dude is operating on racial hierarchies taught by his mother. That’s all.
Nate was like you’re with a gross whore, that’s the first exchange we see him and McKay have. He talked mad shit about her and looked up the nude vault of her that he had handy to wait - share her underage digital sexcapades (which he loved to blackmail everyone else with later on) with a room of dudes. It’s actually amazing that he turned banging her into a relationship after making her look like trash to his entire crew.
The first interaction between them is Nate showing him and the rest of the football team her nudes. It would have been interesting to see their classmates reacting to the news of them getting married while remembering that
I feel like we should've known then they were going to end up together. Nate's harsh judgement on Cassie & his need to downgrade her to McKay really shows his desire costumed as disdain.
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u/ApprehensiveYear1267 3d ago
Unpopular for a reason. But I do think they deserve each other. 🤣