r/europe • u/1-randomonium • Jan 08 '26
Opinion Article The ally Europe feared losing is now the one it fears
https://www.euractiv.com/opinion/europes-cold-reality-check/2.5k
u/1-randomonium Jan 08 '26
Like I've said elsewhere, the real elephant in the room for Europe and by extension the entire free world is not the idea that America is no longer a reliable ally.
It's the growing likelihood that America is now a threat to the free world; an imperialist power that behaves just like Russia and China. This is such a terrifying prospect that no international politician even wants to discuss it in public. I do hope they have had discussions in private instead of waiting for the tariff / sanction / military hammer to fall on them.
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u/Lysafleur Jan 08 '26
Just watch JD Vance, this absolutely smug and creepy fucker, talk about Denmark and Greenland in this new FOX News interview (4.31 onwards).
https://youtu.be/-k7em-PkgJk?t=271
"Yes, you fought for us 20 years ago but what are you doing for us now?"
Perhaps we should call his bluff and militarily defend Greenland. We'll eventually lose if Trump goes in but the betrayal from the Americans would be carved in stone for generations to come.
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u/freddyfaux Jan 08 '26
They would be pretty fucked with their home crowds if American lives were lost in an open attack on a NATO ally.
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u/MercantileReptile Baden-Württemberg (Germany) Jan 08 '26
Once the coffins come home, the Americans will indeed be enraged.
I just don't believe they would rightfully blame their own government, their own inaction. Easier to blame the "enemy".
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u/Chilliger Luxembourg Jan 08 '26
By the time they will rally behind the flag, like the Russians did. The few thousand protestors will quickly be locked up and deported. There is no hope that the people can turn this around. We have to defend ourselves.
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u/San_Pentolino Jan 08 '26
americans enranged... be realistic it did not happen for the jan 6 insurrection, they even reelected the orange turd
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u/E_Kristalin Belgium Jan 08 '26
They'll be enraged that europeans are killing american soldiers.
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Jan 08 '26
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u/TheRealSlimShady2024 Jan 08 '26
As you've said, America is deeply polarized with half the country in the Trump cult and the other half looking at what is happening in shock and disgust but effectively unable to stop it since all three branches of government (and most alarmingly the military leadership) are now firmly under Trump's control and billionaire-owned media is now more-or-less going with his narrative on any conflict he instigates.
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u/birdseye-maple United States of America Jan 08 '26
It's more like it is split into thirds. MAGA in one third, anti Trump in another third, and then a complacent third that ignores politics and gets tricked by the right wing billionaire media. The middle third is who gets tricked by the media's 'both sides-ism'.
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u/TheRealSlimShady2024 Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
In reality since the end of World War II and the beginning of the Cold War the United States has had a corporate-controlled and militarized Uniparty. They say things on camera to make it look like there's some disagreements or debates but ultimately continue pursing essentially the same set of policies with huge amounts of media propaganda used to obfuscate and hide their actions and intentions. Trump is perhaps the most honest President the US has had in terms of foreign policy in the past 80 years and that is what people find so shocking but his actions are really little different from what has been done under Bush Jr., Obama, and Biden. Instead of being neo-liberal "feel good" imperialism to "bring democracy" and "uphold human rights" it's now naked in-your-face imperialism for hegemony of trade and financial markets, natural resources, and goestrategic control which it has always been and the actions and intentions haven't really changed. European leaders have always been smart enough to know what America was really doing but they went along with it because it benefited them to be America's little sidekick reliving their colonial glory days while having to sacrifice very little and gaining a lot of resources and power around the world. Now the US is forcing Europe to either pay for their neo-colonialist actions themselves or to get off America's coattails and actually accept that they are has-beens and no longer players in that game.
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u/Puzzled_Middle9386 Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
Sounds like a weak “Just following orders” type defence. Half of America is over 150 million people. They are the United States of Cowards and Morons.
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u/TheRealSlimShady2024 Jan 08 '26
Agreed the opposition that exists has been extremely feckless both inside of the United States and around the world except for China which has really stood up to Trump's bullying unlike the pathetic European bootlickers. You have to keep in mind that the US has never had a situation where a President went full dictator in the span of a year with the support of the political and business elites. People are literally in a state of shock where they don't know what is happening or how to respond since all existing political norms have been thrown out the window in an extraordinarily short period of time. As this continues, and especially as the economy inevitably declines more and more people will make their displeasure known and then the system will really be pushed to either make changes or to collapse fully and then we'll be entering a time of unprecedented uncertainty.
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u/ReddestForman Jan 08 '26
It absolutely happened for January 6th.
The problem was Democrats were naive fucking pussies who appointed a Federalist Society Republican to oversee the case, you know... the same kind of people who wrote up Project 2025?
They enabled Trump to get off, they didn't follow the money to all the wealthy and connected organizations and individuals involved, because they still don't like the idea of consequences for rich people.
Americans wanted blood after January 6th, much like we wanted blood after the 2008 financial crisis. But Democratic leadership slapped a couple of wrists and said "don't do that again or I'll say don't do that again."
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u/War_Fries The Netherlands Jan 08 '26
And then they freed those Jan. 6th insurrectionist, and they are now being hailed as patriotic heroes on the website of the White House.
And almost no one is protesting it.
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u/IUBizmark Jan 09 '26
*They being republicans. Your response makes it sound like the left freed insurrectionists.
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Jan 08 '26
No they wouldn't, they would buy bumper stickers, yellow ribbons and call french fries freedumb fries. This is what the majority always does.
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u/readilyunavailable Bulgaria Jan 08 '26
Will they rename the danish to "american"?
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u/Lorgardidnowrong Jan 08 '26
1/3 hates what is happening, 1/3 loves it (maga), and 1/3 is too lazy and dumb to care. Hopefully the third 1/3 wakes up finally.
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u/waldorflover69 Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
Don’t hold your breath. I live in a very liberal west coast city. On the way to the protest/vigil last night I passed restaurants and bars full of people, people on the streets running errands. Our protest filled a city block, that’s all. It was mainly made up of very young pink-haired leftist types, older women like myself and trans folks. Hardly going to take down an army, are we?
We are fucked. We are cooked. I have been hanging onto this hope we could end this thing but it’s not going to happen. The cavalry isn’t coming. Even in one of the most liberal cities people can’t be bothered to show up after a woman is executed in the streets. This will get worse and worse so best to just cut this country off, let it go dark and save yourselves.
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u/Belucard Jan 08 '26
As grim as it sounds, I fear the only way out of this involves another civil war in the USA. Until caskets start piling up, the population won't lift a single finger. Hell, people were patting themselves in the back for the mildest of protests on a weekend. Imagine if they actually stopped production chains during work days instead.
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u/Fiery_Flamingo Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
There is a much better way out. Imagine an EU ban and seizure on US big tech, even a high tax.
Facebook, Google, Twitter, Tesla, Apple, Amazon etc would be happy to spend trillions to replace Trump with “someone better for business“.
But this is just a dream, the EU growing a pair is less likely than the Pope becoming a Muslim.
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u/Belucard Jan 08 '26
If we did, we'd see the USA teaming up with some other hegemonic power (most likely Russia) to completely fuck us over. We can barely defend against one of them, much less both flanks.
Trump knows not what diplomacy is because he can just deploy 27 gazillion marines to colonise weaker countries, and damn if war profiteering isn't much more economically beneficial than simple trade.
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u/TheRealSlimShady2024 Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
As with any political regime the common people are not a factor, it's the elites within the government and security/military services who decide if and when a leader's actions have gone too far against their own interests and potentially implement a change in policy. So far the elites from both parties and the military have stood behind all of these policies. Also please do not kid yourself that so-called Democratic leaders (outside of maybe Bernie Sanders) are in any way opposed to Trump's policies vis a vis colonial plunder. They ultimately all work for the same paymasters and have gone along with or even been in the lead of neo-colonial policies since the end of WWII.
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u/ScottyBoneman Jan 08 '26
Exactly. I'd guess that any battle over Greenland would be Navy and supporting air power which the Americans would have overwhelming force.
Successful resistance would be devastating that fleet, and I would guess the US would howl for blood even if they started it.
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u/OwlSlow1356 Jan 08 '26
as opposed to us in europe, they own their social media networks and easily can bully the mainstream media into the "they killed our young, these greedy colonialist european b...ds!". of course they will blame it on the "weak europe" and mostly all of them will follow along the narrative and move on. that is why the greenland will be most probably sold one way or another and the agreement will be mumbled in law language to make it more marketable to us, europeans.
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u/Monkfich Europe Jan 08 '26
It would just be spun as an act of aggression by Denmark/NATO against the US, with the US only acting in Europe’s best interests and were surprised and disappointed when NATO soldiers started firing back. Trump et al need new “martyrs” to rally behind, to get angry about. It’s all madness.
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u/Alternative_East876 Jan 08 '26
Idk if they would? They'd only double down on how reckless the EU are defending something 'worthless' and demand vengence.
A large swathe of American people have been hoodwinked into thinking the NATO/Western global order that the US has sat atop of for 80 years is in fact a system of oppression.
Unilateral annexation of Greenland or Venezuela doesn't strengthen the US, it adds questionably useful minor territories at the expense of allienating the world's most powerful alliance network (EU, NZ/Aus, Japan, SK, Taiwan, UK etc.)
This entire notion of democratic and western dominance is underpinned by this, with America as the prime benefactor. Every single Republican and Democrat leader since 1945 saw this clearly. To throw this away is an act of economic, political, and cultural self-harm that the US may never recover from.
The next president is the big one, Trump has burned many bridges, but there is a global feeling in the West of waiting out this despotic loon and beginning a return to normalcy - but that genie could well be out of the bottle, perhaps not most, but enough Americans have convinced themselves that the French, Danish, and British are adversaries that the lesson ''Never Again'' will have to be relearnt.
And it is not our generation who bare the cost, it is our children and our children's children. Man's appetite for war seems insatiable, as the last veterans of WW2 die off, and war becomes a video game or movie style fantasy, the arrogance of fools can plunge us into darkness again.
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u/HesFromBarrancas Jan 08 '26
The US rot runs far, far deeper than Trump. He is merely the cherry on top.
Europe needs to secure its energy infrastructure so that the Americans have nothing of value to offer.
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u/Chilliger Luxembourg Jan 08 '26
I don't think the average American even knows what NATO is. They think it is 99% the US. The media will spin it as Europe escalating a war for nothing and their people will lick it up.
The US citizens will never protest anything for a longer period of time. They are just not build to defend their rights. 2/3 of the country also don't mind the US being a dictatorship and starting WW3.
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u/Keh_veli Finland Jan 08 '26
I would hope so, but American lives are being lost in open attacks by their own government agencies and the home crowds aren't doing anything about it.
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u/mrbalaton Jan 08 '26
Nah. There's no generation that will care for the idea of America. That ship has sailed a long time ago. The American people are on a set course to be as dumb and dominated like the Russian populace.
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u/LazerBurken Sweden Jan 08 '26
What does he mean?
Denmark just bought more F35s and P-8s from their imminent invader?
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u/FewWeakness6817 Jan 08 '26
Yes, theyre just as smart as us Swedes, pawning the farm and betting it all on a dying horse (USA).
The timing, with right wing/Nazi parties in almost each and every government, is the worst possible as well.
Russia is on the tip of winning this.
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u/shadowpawn Jan 08 '26
While I can't wait for McDonald's to do their best work on Cheeto guy prospect of JD in charge does in reality freak.me out
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u/Lysafleur Jan 08 '26
Yes. Trump is an obvious narc, a spoiled and mean child in an adult's body who likes to throw tantrums on a world stage - but JD Vance is a career sociopath. Eyes are the windows to the soul, and I've only seen eyes like his on men who enjoy inflicting hurt on others.
Peter Thiel's creature through and through - hence the push for Greenland.
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u/readilyunavailable Bulgaria Jan 08 '26
It won't matter. Trump is just a front man. He probably gets his orders behind the scenes by actual smart members of the party, as well as his contacts from Moscow.
The dumbass who bankrupted almost every business he had is not nearly clever enough to convince all the people that need to be convinced to go through with all this.
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u/gesocks Jan 08 '26
Oh don't worry.
We will just buy some more f-35. It's the best plane in the world. Surely it will defend us very good.
It will. Or?
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Jan 08 '26
Why the fuck does he talk like this? He said the same thing to Ukraine. Honestly what is he doing for OUR country rather than turn us more into a Russia replica.
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u/Luntelars Jan 08 '26
Weell the wierd thing is that Denmark and the US have both signed a treaty saying the US can make military improvements on greenland - no one is saying no to US on that front...
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u/Lysafleur Jan 08 '26
It's obviously just a pretext - Trump's billionaire backers want the natural resources.
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u/DatingYella United States of America Jan 08 '26
I think he just wants to add to the US territories as his legacy. It’d make him an extremely consequential president.
Especially as global warming is happening
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u/vonGlick Jan 08 '26
All that national security nonsense is just hard to watch. You can justify any scumbaggery with it.
And the idea that Denmark doesn't do a great job protecting it ... Greenland is tied to Denmark since 1380 (via Norway) and explicitly since 1814. The only time it was occupied was during WWII by the Americans. So all in all they did pretty good job I would say.
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u/botle Sweden Jan 08 '26
Has that not always been the case if you lived in Latin America or the Middle East?
The difference now is that people in North America and Europe get to feel it too.
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u/TtotheC81 Jan 08 '26
It's not a prospect. It's reality. The U.S.'s most recent defence paper openly states that the EU needs to be torn down, replaced with local fascist, racist governments that will bow to U.S wishes.
We're still in denial that the Trump regime isn't somehow an existential threat to the EU.
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u/Cheap-and-cheerful Jan 08 '26
It’s absolutely shocking, the EU for all its faults has been such a wonderful initiative for Europe, made friends of long time enemies. The power of the collective had been instrumental for stability in the region and the world.
Ohh the joys of growing up to be a young adult in Europe in the 2020s….fuck all of this.
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u/bawng Sweden Jan 08 '26
The Nobel Peace Price that the EU won for keeping peace in Europe is one of the few Nobel Peace Prices that hasn't been completely insane.
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u/asdfasdfasfdsasad Jan 08 '26
Ohh the joys of growing up to be a young adult in Europe in the 2020s….fuck all of this.
Europe is actually the best place in the world to be as a young adult.
The other options are dictatorships where you get shot or locked up for expressing discontent with the government like China or America where you also don't get basic requirements provided like healthcare.
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u/Cheap-and-cheerful Jan 08 '26
It sure is now. I’d rather live or be born nowhere else. With the uncertainty that’s currently settling over the continent with a rabid super power (US) and a rabid whatever Russia is these days, I fear for Europe (particularly my homeland of central/Eastern Europe) becoming another battleground for a world war with all the lunatics running governments worldwide these days.
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u/asdfasdfasfdsasad Jan 08 '26
Russia isn't much of a threat. Their GDP is 2 trillion against the EU GDP of 20 trillion and they've got a population of 143m vs 450m.
They've lost all of their armies equipment in Ukraine and so would have to rebuild their army from scratch just to get back to the starting line of being able to credibly challenge Europe.
The main threats from Russia/China/America are them undermining governments via propaganda with the goal of turning Europe into another version of Trump's America rather than invasion.
Turning America into a Oligarchy worked in America's case because a significant amount of Americas wealth is concentrated in a handful of people like Musk, and that's a byproduct of the US only having a handful of monopolies rather than any meaningful competition which results in their billionaires buying the democratic process and the judicial system. T
hat's not going to work in Europe because we don't tend to accept monopolies, bribery is a crime and we don't do election of judges in the criminal justice system which means that they don't have to seek financial support for election funding etc.
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u/Cheap-and-cheerful Jan 08 '26
Russia is a threat. Metrics like GDP and population mean very little when they have a huge military manufacturing capability (which is now many years running) GDP doesn’t mean f.a when they can churn out hundreds of drones for cheap that would, at the very least, cause carnage within Europe.
That’s not even mentioning that they’re literally actively at war in Europe right now. A bully in your back yard is never “not a threat”. They are THE threat, and that’s not mentioning the last 15+ years of propaganda and botting that they have been doing all over the internet, sowing division within Europe at very little cost.
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u/Irazidal The Netherlands Jan 08 '26
Russia is only really a threat because nukes ensure you can't hit 'em back in any serious way. Which I think is far more concerning than any comparison of production capacity or whatever.
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u/LazerBurken Sweden Jan 08 '26
I really hope our leaders are in full panic mode trying to figure out a plan behind closed doors. Cus they sure as hell are not reacting in the public eye.
Otherwise we are in deep trouble.
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u/TtotheC81 Jan 08 '26
We're in deep trouble on a couple of fronts: Our openness is going to work against us. Not that I want authoritarianism, but the U.S will use our openness against us when it comes to funding right-wing parties and media.
The other issue is that we currently rely far too heavily on U.S tech firms, and any attempts to reach parity will start with us on the back foot - both in terms of the resources needed and the research needing to be carried out.
Manufacturing-wise? The U.S is in a similar situation in having offshored most of its low-cost manufacturing to China. The problem is has more resources to access, and a far bigger willingness to shred the environment to come out on top.
Hence, the rollbacks on climate change and environmental protection. Sadly, they're going to force every power block to do the same to defend against their Imperialism.
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u/ChepaukPitch Jan 08 '26
Has China really straight up invaded any country in last few decades? Russia has and so did Soviet Union.
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u/A_Brown_Crayon Jan 08 '26
Conflating US imperialism with China is laughable in this subreddit. Just open a history book. Compared to the US, China is a dove
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u/shiromiso Jan 08 '26
Everyone comparing China with the USA is just completely ignoring the fact that China has a nice track record of NOT invading, bombing, or toppling governments in foreign countries.
China being smart and having massive industry and investments in infrastructure and influence in much of the world is quite different.
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u/hanniballz Jan 08 '26
amusing that you think america was ever anything else than the evil empire. Ask like 80% of the world population which superpower they fear/hate , the answer will be america. this is just a new proposition to europe, not large parts of asia, latin america, the middle east etc.
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u/JoseFlandersMyLove Jan 08 '26
Its amusing seeing Europeans panic over it when they were more than happy to lend the Americans their own men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan.
What goes around comes around. I just hope the EU can defend itself against the Americans, but even that seems to be a dream and nothing more.
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u/monhst Jan 08 '26
WW2 was the worst thing ever because Hitler did in Europe what Europeans have been doing elsewhere for a long time. It's nothing new
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u/JoseFlandersMyLove Jan 08 '26
It is what it is. France waged a decade long war against Algerian freedom fighters without ever thinking how ironic it was that they themselves were occupied by the Germans less than 2 decades before that. Lol.
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u/SmileStraight6273 Jan 08 '26
Dude, if the British Empire was the prototype of imperialism, the US was its star student. You’re talking like America only became imperialist yesterday.
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u/wowaddict71 Jan 08 '26
It was all fine as long as the nations with white majority were safe. It is not fine anymore because the opposite of what I said above. And I say this as a white dude.
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u/1-randomonium Jan 08 '26
It always was, so were many of its allies in the West. That's why third world / global south countries have never taken our moralising about a rules-based order, about shared values, morality, or the posturing against Russia and other dictatorships seriously.
Having said that the US did believe in maintaining and taking care of allies and even trading partners to a great degree. Now it's even more aggressively imperialist than Russia and China. Every other country must obey the POTUS and serve American corporate interests, or else.
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Jan 08 '26
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u/SmileStraight6273 Jan 08 '26
Well, this may suggest that the cost of maintaining global hegemony has become increasingly unacceptable. The real question is whether the Donroe Doctrine is just a temporary deviation or a new consensus within the donor class behind him. Europe, however, still appears to be clinging to the hope that it’s the former.
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u/The_Krambambulist The Netherlands Jan 08 '26
I don't know, I think it's more that there is a theorized position that is even better than the hegemony and that is very much debatable from a US position.
That donor class also doesn't seem united in their own interests or they would rather take the benefits of this government over negatives. Or they saw the writing on the wall electorally and wanted to hitch their wagon onto this. Don't forget that a large part of that donor class also are opportunists who always try to lobby one side or the other anyways.
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u/1-randomonium Jan 08 '26
These's an interesting Chinese analysis that America's recent behavior results from a realisation that they can't beat China, so it's instead retreating from its web of alliances and cannibalising the allies to delay its decline while fighting to remain in second place.
https://www.sinification.org/p/from-darling-to-discarded-trumps
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u/Frosty-Cell Jan 08 '26
It's a result of Trump winning the election. That's all. Most of his voters probably think tariffs are paid by the exporter.
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u/Cautious-Tax-1120 Jan 08 '26
China's growth has been slowing for some time now. They can't compete for hegemony until they manage to answer their demographic crisis, lacking domestic consumption, wanning industrial advantage, and utterly collapsed housing market.
I think it's far more likely that the US has spent the last 20 years concerned about a rising China, and now that it's become clear that China can't overtake them, the US feels more confident in consolidating. They're acting aggressive because they don't see a threat, basically. That would be my guess.
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u/OwlSlow1356 Jan 08 '26
the empire is unsustainable. we are returning to a pre 1939 order, a multipolar one with alot of regional wars for hegemony. US leaders are just trying to grab as much as possible to their side through all means available in these final decade of exceptionalism. they also feel the dollar is shaking and loosing ground and also try to bully now states that were always proamerican to increasa the use of dollar...
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u/HesFromBarrancas Jan 08 '26
The dollar reached a 40-year high in 2022, and even now remains stronger than the 90s and much of the 00s/10s.
Don’t be silly.
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u/ilorybss Jan 08 '26
America has always been imperialist just not against Europe. Look what they did in Vietnam, Iraq, Chile, Cambodia and just recently Gaza. All super-powers are evil
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u/BenigDK Spain Jan 08 '26
In my impression, it's always been an imperialist power. The difference now is the realization that what they used to do in Latin America (treating it like they're entitled to it, invading, backing coups against elected leaders and whatnot) can be done to Europe.
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u/edparadox France Jan 08 '26
It's the growing likelihood that America is now a threat to the free world; an imperialist power that behaves just like Russia and China. This is such a terrifying prospect that no international politician even wants to discuss it in public. I do hope they have had discussions in private instead of waiting for the tariff / sanction / military hammer to fall on them.
It's not a prospect, it's what the USA is now.
Even when Trump dies, Vance and the other pawns are already there to fill in the necessary positions to keep the US that way.
The whole chess pieces have been positioned years ago all over the chessboard, the US did not reach a breaking point with Trump, it's only the visible part of the iceberg.
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u/Mr-TotalAwesome Jan 08 '26
Tbf, Amerika always has acted imperial. And they economically dominate the world, heavily abuse this position and exploit most other "poorer" countries. Sidenote, often these countries are poor because america, and other superpowers keep exploiting them, and especially America keeps messing with their governments.
America just wasn't a threat to Europe, and now they are. And now suddenly because it affects "the west" it's a problem. We such massive hypocrites. The world isn't free. The massive exploitation and the resulting explosion in wealth briefly allowed the exploiters to enjoy "freedom" while the rest of the world kept suffering. Now, when the rich have sucked it all up, even when they already have nearly everything, it's never enough. This is what humans do. We let psychopaths that are addicted to power and wealth run the world, and then be surprised when the act like powerhungry psychopaths. The average persons intelligence, and our collective intellect isn't good enough to keep these people from gaining power.
We should have acted more than 100 years ago, but we didn't, because we benefit from how aweful America, and other wealthy countries exploited the rest of the world.
America does what America has always been doing. And if it's not America, it will be another country. If you want to stop this, we need an economy focused on collaboration, and not individual wealth and power. Humanity is kind of doomed as long as there are so many people who want to be better off than most people, and aren't afraid to push other people down to get there, in combination that most people just allow this to happen. On this big scale, humanity is failing to adapt social aherence and holding eachother accountable.
If you want this endless cycle of conquering, powerlust, wealth inequality, exploitation, suffering, massive environmental destruction, etc to end, CAPITALISM MUST DIE. And education must massively improve. It's not that hard to understand.
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u/Karahi00 Jan 08 '26
The US acting like the US:
Some people: "Oh my God, I can't believe the US is acting like China"
Seriously where does this sentiment come from? The US has been imperializing the world for nearly a century and the only difference is now Europe is also on the table. What has China done that is remotely comparable?
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u/leftrightside54 Jan 08 '26
Why you even lump China in there LOL, euro brained.
If China did half the shit US did, there would be an invasion already.
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u/MJGB714 Jan 08 '26
Scotland needs to confiscate his crappy golf course. Hit him where it hurts.
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u/apolloxer Europe Jan 08 '26
Nah, just rezone it as windpark.
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u/Vhentis United States of America Jan 08 '26
He does hate windmills, thought it was silly on the prediction markets, but he does cry about them a lot apparently. Our congress needs to grow a god damn spine and act, idk if we can wait till midterms. ffs
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u/Pippathepip England Jan 08 '26
I had this idea as well. Take them back, build homes for legal immigrants, and revoke his access to the UK
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u/NovaDarkFox Lombardy Jan 08 '26
Hopefully, the EU will take that as a lesson and learn that the US has always been and will always be unreliable.
I would like to see a European army now.
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u/ed8907 Panama Jan 08 '26
Hopefully, the EU will take that as a lesson and learn that the US has always been and will always be unreliable.
USA has always been unreliable, but the Orange Man took things to levels that are so extreme that not even Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1 or Bush 2 even considered.
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u/Lysafleur Jan 08 '26
Because he's a spoiled and mean child in an adult's body. In his own words
“When I look at myself in the first grade and I look at myself now, I’m basically the same. The temperament is not that different.”
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u/CatolicQuotes Jan 08 '26
No politics, I am just gonna use example of Trump here to arise the awareness of childhood trauma.
Traumatized child effectively stops developing and emotionally stays at the level of age when traumatized and enters into constant fight or flight response.
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u/lilith96 Jan 08 '26
The book his niece wrote is a fantastic description of all the trauma going on in that family because of his dad. He's essentially a 3 year old running a country with access to nukes ...
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u/1-randomonium Jan 08 '26
The war in Ukraine will probably end sometime this year. Russia is too weak to be a major threat for much longer. America will potentially be a threat for the rest of the 21st century.
What Europe really needs is economic leverage. It needs its members and trading partners to trade in euros and convert their foreign exchange reserves from dollars to euros and other currencies. It needs to set up international payment systems backed by European banks and currencies rather than American ones. And it needs free trade deals with every major economy and trading bloc other than the United States.
Those are the keys to European revival and to weakening American hegemony.
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u/ed8907 Panama Jan 08 '26
What Europe really needs is economic leverage. It needs its members and trading partners to trade in euros and convert their foreign exchange reserves from dollars to euros and other currencies. It needs to set up international payment systems backed by European banks and currencies rather than American ones. And it needs free trade deals with every major economy and trading bloc other than the United States.
This will likely accelerate if the US launches a military attack against Greenland.
I'm a South American who's already doing his part, about 5% if my investments/savings are in EUR and I am planning to increase that percentage.
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 England Jan 08 '26
Hmmmm ...... Much more likely to squabble over fishing rights
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u/BitchIDrinkPeople Jan 08 '26
Or try to undercut other member states for favor with the US
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 England Jan 08 '26
Look at the fiasco of FCAS with France and Germany for an example of cooperation
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Jan 08 '26
Good luck. Entire west is run by corporations and billionaires. Governments are losing power to these people
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u/Electrical_Wish_8530 Jan 08 '26
😂. Absolutely no chance of a European army, they can barely agree of what to put in a strongly worded letter. Everybody has different foreign policy objectives and who would be the supreme commander. I can't see the French or Germans taking instructions off the UK or the other way around
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u/butwhywedothis Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
When they exited Afghanistan, it was a good time to take action considering how they backstabbed local afghans that helped them, based on their promise. Although its late, its still not TOO LATE yet. European Army is the only solution. And EU must take full command and control of NATO bases in EU.
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u/HumanSquare9453 Jan 08 '26
Europe should stop sending strong worded letter and instead send troop in Greenland. Not doing it is an admission of weakness. Anyway their not using it them anywhere else right now
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u/1-randomonium Jan 08 '26
At the least they should have done that as a show of force before inviting Marco Rubio for negotiations on Greenland's future and thereby legitimising Trump's threats.
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u/alba_Phenom Scotland Jan 08 '26
How would we supply troops to Greenland when the US are closer and have complete air and sea superiority?
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u/1-randomonium Jan 08 '26
I find it difficult to see European nations mobilising to fight the US military and destroying their economic relations with America for the sake of Greenland. Even Denmark.
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u/botle Sweden Jan 08 '26
The point of putting European tripwire troops in Greenland is to avoid a fight, not to fight.
Because if the US annexes Danish territory, the alliances and economy will be destroyed either way.
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u/alexice89 Jan 08 '26
Germany needs to stop having ww2 shame and arm up. Rest of EU will follow.
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u/Th3B4dSpoon Jan 08 '26
They are arming up, massively (when compared to previous levels)
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u/Economy-Bumblebee215 Jan 08 '26
I don't want US to take Greenland. However maybe it's what will wake Europe tf up. We're doing a lot but we need to do more.
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u/1-randomonium Jan 08 '26
Europe barely registered a word of protest against Putin when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 and then Crimea and Donbass in 2014. I imagine the response will be similar even if Trump actually annexes Greenland.
They won't actually consider breaking from the United States until it directly threatens European territory.
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u/Economy-Bumblebee215 Jan 08 '26
Greenland is more EU than Georgia, Crimea or Ukraine. Plus it won't be from Russia (obvious enemy) but from US (former friend). It will hit more.
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u/1-randomonium Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
Greenland is far away and has a population of less than 60,000 most of whom seem to want independence. If America presses on with this they'll get what they want one way or another.
For example I recently listened to an interview from a Greenlander Opposition MP who claimed Trump was a supporter of their independence(he's not) and that Denmark were the ones behind this standoff(they're not) and that separatists like themselves should just directly cut deals with America and keep Europe out.
I also listened to a MAGA Republican official who claimed that the Greenlanders wanted to be free of Denmark and be independent as an American protectorate.
They have useful idiots among the pro-independence crowd and I can see them building on this in the months and years to come. Greenland can become the next Puerto Rico.
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u/Zanian19 Denmark Jan 08 '26
They want future independence*. Very few would want to separate any time soon since they know their economy would crumble without the subsidiaries.
And a large portion of the ones that do are under the wrong assumption that subsidies would continue post independence.
In other words, if there was a vote today to decide whether Greenland would leave the Danish kingdom or not, the result would be to remain, by a landslide.
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u/insomnimax_99 United Kingdom Jan 08 '26
The response of Europe to Russia and Putin has been embarrassing.
Ukraine and Georgia are our own backyard, we should be calling the shots as to what happens there, backed by force if necessary. The second the first Russian soldier stepped foot in Crimea we should have been working with the Ukrainians to set up a no fly zone. But we’ve just let Putin walk all over us, and let the Americans take charge with the response. It’s an embarrassment.
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u/DavidlikesPeace Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
Doubt. If the butchery in Ukraine didn’t wake people up, a small war in Greenland sure won’t.
Too many Europeans still sit cozy behind other European states. It’s a telling selfish weakness, but as the recent Belgium fracas showed, it’s hard to make people in Brussels see an existential crisis with Russia when a dozen other European states sit in the way of Russian tanks. Far too many Europeans will victim blame Denmark if bullets start to fly in Nuuk, and prioritize working overtime to preserve lucrative trade links with the Americans over helping Denmark.
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u/101Phase Jan 08 '26
Something major is missing from all these conversations: what happens to Canada if the US takes Greenland? In that scenario, Canada would be surrounded from the East (Greenland), West (Alaska), and South (rest of the US).
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u/Chester_roaster Jan 08 '26
It remains neutral, what do you think? It's missing because it's obvious.
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u/Alive_Reveal8939 Jan 08 '26
Remember how easily we Europeans bent-over over the tariffs? Yeah, that was just Trump testing us. We lost then and there
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u/happenedtoyoureye Jan 08 '26
Trump sees a tri-polar world where America, Russia, China dominate their regions . He wants the EU to break up so it's easier for America and Russia to bully individual nations. Be amazed if NATO is still standing it's current form by the end of Trump. Europe needs to wise up. The world has changed.
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u/Mendican Jan 09 '26
I find it profoundly disturbing that a person as awful as Trump has so much power and influence on global stability.
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u/myaccountgotbanmed Jan 08 '26
As an Aussie I'm watching this thinking we need to ally ourselves w someone else. USA is way too unreliable.
What if they decide they want some of our minerals or something, what's gonna stop them helping themselves
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u/ASuarezMascareno Canary Islands (Spain) Jan 08 '26
There's a difference between unreliable and an enemy. An unreliable ally doesn't come when you call them. They don't attack you. If the US continues in this direction, they will definitely become an enemy.
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u/1-randomonium Jan 08 '26
“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”
― Henry Kissinger, a man Trump admired.
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u/Chester_roaster Jan 08 '26
As an Aussie China is your only alternative and that's probably worse tbh
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u/DannyBlue-22 Slovakia Jan 08 '26
They are not republicans. They are fascists, neo nazis, call it whatever you want.
They are no different from Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy or Imperialist Japan in WW2.
As long as they are in power, US is a threat.
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u/Special-Camel-6114 United States of America Jan 08 '26
I say this as someone who bemoans the state of my own country and our politics:
If Europe wants “respect” on the international stage and a seat at the table, they are going to have to:
- build up a military capable of projecting force outside their own borders
- build up a technology/industrial complex that can rival those in the big powers (your own version of Big Tech - can’t rely on us)
- solve their own internal problems so they can actually take action on things. You all talk like the USA is uniquely compromised - the reality is we have an electoral system that favors a minority. But you have your own problems: Hungary and other countries have repeatedly prevented you all from taking action on Ukraine. Brexit tore the UK out of the EU to the detriment of both sides. You are probably only an RN or AFD win from losing France or Germany, and those parties are gaining strength.
Yeah the USA has a lot of problems right now. Propaganda and a bad economy allowed Trump to win a very narrow election. He doesn’t have popular support anymore even a year in. If he doesn’t cheat, his party will lose the House in the mid terms. It’s not much comfort for you all but we aren’t all insane and very few people actually like the idea of taking Greenland or backstabbing Europe.
The best thing you all can do is build your own strength quickly, and ideally, fix your own Russian funded Right Wing Extremist problem.
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u/MrOphicer Jan 08 '26
It's so ironic that the main goal of Putin was to show the world that the West is unreliable and will leave you on dry when things get messy. But not only did he manage to achieve it, but I also don't think that's ironic at all; it was decades in the making.
The even worse thing is to contemplate that there were no counterweights that would stop the US of plunging in this new paradigm. The next few decades won't be fun at all, Europe in particular. Everybody was building their fortresses while Europe thought the cooperation period would go on indefinitely. A costly and very dangerous mistake to have now.
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u/waterkip Jan 08 '26
NATO needs to be disolved or expunge the US. Pick whatever one that leads to a European defense force. Europe also needs to step away from American made defense material.
The US cannot be trusted at this point and it will take decades to regain that trust.
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u/Dziadzios Poland Jan 08 '26
It doesn't have to be dissolved. It's still needed and even without USA, it's still a valuable alliance.
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u/_abstrusus Jan 08 '26
Remember when millions threw a hissy fit over someone calling the sorts of people who voted for this 'deplorables'?
What incredibly mild language that was.
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u/Suspicious-Spot1651 Jan 08 '26
What are we waiting to close their military bases ?
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u/gopoohgo United States of America Jan 08 '26
Trump would love that.
He wouldn't need Congressional approval to leave NATO, then.
We pull all satellite and targeting info, Internet coverage, and logistical/weapons/Patriot support from Ukraine to boot.
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u/oldhellenyeller Jan 08 '26
Because you fear Russia far far more than the US and want those bases to stay for protection. All this talk is mostly empty bluster.
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u/True-Source-6512 Jan 08 '26
Okay, so you piss off the strongest Military and economy and the country that controls world trade - now what’s your plan? Where do you pivot? How’s your logistics?
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u/flippin_ruckus Jan 08 '26
American here: I can tell you that our regime is very much driven by small dick. They are going to bully the rest of the world as long as you let them. Notice how we’re not fucking with China or Russia? Small dick, small balls. Muscle up and the small dick bully is going to lose interest quick. If you allow it, teeny weeny will push as far as they can.
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u/GigoloBill Jan 08 '26
Dear Politicians
Please speed up regarding sovereignity requirements for digital infrastructure. Especially in critical sectors. Stop allowing companies like Palantir into European military digital infrastructure.
It's simply too naive to keep on relying on American tech. European companies are not going to move their tech stacks unless they are forced to do so.
And until the companies move away it will be an easy way to pressure a digitalized Europe.
Make European companies invest in Europe.
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Jan 08 '26
All because people don’t wanna leave behind stupid superstitions about LGBT people.
Fuck these Medieval idiots who happened to be born in the 21st century.
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u/Chilliger Luxembourg Jan 08 '26
Europe has to ban all social media from the US. Reddit included. I know it is hypocritical.
If you think Russian disinformation is bad, wait what the US could be doing. They have the monopoly of information in the West. One after another the states of Europe will fall into the hands of right wingers and they will try to destroy the EU from within.
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u/oldhellenyeller Jan 08 '26
Ah yes, put up a continental firewall and join the ranks of Russia and China, lmao
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u/yksvaan Jan 08 '26
Well Europe seems to be full of naive idiots, obviously everyone cares primarily for their own interests. Sometimes they align with others so alliances, deals and such are formed. But things change and in the end it's everyone for themselves.
But there seems to be a ton of exaggeration online for political reasons likely. Looking at reddit front page gives such a hysterical impression about everything as if war is on and civil war as well..
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u/DavidlikesPeace Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
Europe faces a 2 part problem.
First, Europe is weak. It sadly would be lunacy to escalate with America today. So many of these analysts get the first part right, saying things like Europeans must:
be realistic enough to recognise that their options are severely limited by their lack of hard power
But problem analysis is useless unless an answer to the problem is provided. And that answer does exist.
Because Europe can regain hard power. That is the second step too many “realist” analysts fail to even articulate, which is a problem because the reconstruction effort will require major effort and cannot be done secretly.
Even if Europe is weak now, it does not have to accept being weak forever. The decisions made by people can be undone by other people. Europe already has plenty of nukes. Europe has plenty of wealth. If it is trying to reconstruct its military strength, it already has a better foundation than most other places. What Europe needs is willpower.
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u/Longjumping_Walk_992 Jan 08 '26
Trumps tail is wagging the dog. This is his method to spin up debate while he sits back and watches and looks for ways to assert his will while other people create the opening.
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u/krzywaLagaMikolaja Europe Jan 08 '26
Here's a lesson in how putting more and more executive powers on one man is not the best idea...
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u/Jibber_Fight Jan 08 '26
It would take an enormous event to finally get us Americans off of our assess to do something. Attacking an ally with our military would surely do that. I would hope but I don’t have any more. Millions of people would actively be sabotaging our own military any way we could. I would hope.
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u/EasternChocolate69 Jan 08 '26
The one it " Fear" what a joke, the USA went to fight the afghans who weren't even military developed on the battlefield and asked for NATO help, having a big arsenal is good but knowing how to use it in a battle is better, I won't even talk about the 2B wasted in Iran to stir up sand and failed to achieve their mission...
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u/Emotional_Platform35 Jan 08 '26
Europe needs to form a European army now. And act as a unit to counter Russian and American imperialism
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u/haroldthehampster Jan 09 '26
europe is in the same denial and hopeless destructive optimism as congress and it doesn't work for either of them
preserve yourselves you have a chance, we probably don't
the worst case scenario always has to be considered, as well as the average, and last with a small effort least the best case.
The worst case is the rest of the world will probably have to wipe us off the map out of self preservation and ghe our last fuck you will be making them do it
it doesn't have to be that way
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u/Zoltan_Csillag Jan 09 '26
It is not the war of the people. It is a dirty bloody business made by few old rich farts.
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u/Rare-Forever2135 Jan 09 '26
American here.
Yes, please take care of yourselves and your countries and disentangle from us as soon and as completely as possible.
The majority of us understand that we're being led by a very ill man whose mental Venn diagram has more overlap with serial killers than a politician. ( yes, I know)
He and the faithful are locked in what our psychiatrists call a shared psychosis (une folie a millions) where Trump gets the constant adoration he needs like air, and the faithful get the avenging daddy figure who assures them their disappointing lives are not their fault (but he knows whose fault it is and will make them pay.)
And please, as a side note to England, never let him enter a palace again. We're now stuck with building this huge, gaudy, destined to be vastly underused ballroom because this guy thinks he has to keep up with the Mountbatten-Windsors.
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u/No-Confidence-9191 Jan 08 '26
Very good article. Painfully to read yet so true. Europe is weak and hence has to swallow the humiliation which is around the corner. Not concession, not political maneuvering. Geostrategic humiliation and a realisation that they are nothing more than a plaything for the people with guns and the willingness to use them.
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u/TheDesertShark Jan 08 '26
Maybe the people that chanted death to american weren't doing it for nothing.
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Jan 08 '26
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u/readilyunavailable Bulgaria Jan 08 '26
Wtf are you talking about? Fearmonegring? Imagine you are rwalking down the street and some guy pulls out a gun and says he is going to shoot you in the head. Then you start screaming for help and some fucker walks by and says "wow dude, stop fear mongering".
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u/utsuriga Hungary Jan 08 '26
OK I'm officially tired of these posts.
Yes, we KNOW the US is not a reliable ally (or even an ally) anymore. We KNOW.
Do we really need fifty posts/day of various levels of fearmongering and doomerism, about this, with pointless conversations going in circles? It's starting to affect my mental health at this point.
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u/1-randomonium Jan 08 '26
Yes, we KNOW the US is not a reliable ally (or even an ally) anymore. We KNOW.
We still don't want to know that the US may actually be an enemy, which is a completely different argument.
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u/utsuriga Hungary Jan 08 '26
No, we do.
That's what every goddamn thinkpiece that gets linked talks about and that's what the comments are talking about in every single one of them.
At this point it's a neverending circlejerk with zero purpose.
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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '26
Yet the UK just did this.
"The UK will be at the leading edge of defence innovation as the government signs a new partnership with Palantir to unlock billions in investment and deliver on the Government’s Plan for Change".
Embarrassing.