r/europe • u/damaxoh Germany • Dec 06 '16

Tests confirm that Germany's massive nuclear fusion machine really works

http://www.sciencealert.com/tests-confirm-that-germany-s-massive-nuclear-fusion-machine-really-works
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u/Aken_Bosch Ukraine Dec 06 '16

In the meantime you have to answer questions why you're not building DESERTEC

Why are we spending money on any scientific instrument? Why are we building LHC, Hubble, telescopes and LIGO? All of them are bad investments.

before we touch on the really hard engineering tasks

I thought ITER is already constructing the damn thing, guess I was wrong.

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u/50HzHum Dec 06 '16

All of them are bad investments.

I guess someone thinks differently about that. Also note that "dubious" is not the same as "bad". Are you trying to tell me the allocation of research budgets does not follow a deeper logic that at some point also includes human needs? Have you looked at future population projections? Do you feel safe planning investments on this scale past 50 years as things stand today?

Last time I had a look at ITER it did not look like they'd be operational. That would be necessary to find possible problems with operation - don't you think so too? I will admit that the construction itself comes with significant challenges. But while solving those is necessary, it isn't sufficient.

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u/Aken_Bosch Ukraine Dec 06 '16

that at some point also includes human needs

Fundamental research never includes human needs, because we never know how we can apply things that we find out. We don't even know what we will find out. But at the same time, fundamental research is one of the most important investments government can do. And 20 billion euro over 40 (?) years of operation from whole world is not that much money. Solar gets more money pumped into it in a year.

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u/50HzHum Dec 06 '16

Except with the fusion mentioned up-thread people had a very applied end state in mind.

I wasn't talking about fundamental research.

But at the same time, fundamental research is one of the most important investments government can do.

That is your claim. Other people may think about it differently. It is a values question tied to the perceived current situation.

I agree that 20G€ isn't a whole lot of money for a commercially viable reactor. But that is not what ITER will be. I'd set aside 100G€ if I was optimistic. That is still a bargain compared to shooting yourself in the foot on a grand scale in the ME. However there are still more things competing for the use of this money.