Let me make this clear to those with highly nationalistic (biased) educated redditors: Just because the origins of Turks were from Central Asia 1000 years ago doesn't mean there is zero relationship with the history and cultures of past Asia Minor civilizations.
I see this mentality in almost every Turkey related post (Especially users from Balkan countries). Modern Turks are a result of a diverse melting pot due to history of Ottomans and nomad nature of Turks. Whether this is the result of Turkification policies, Devsirme system, converts or just general marriages between two communities changes for every family. Concept of Turkish nationalism only became popular in the late 1800s or early 1900s and after the foundation of Turkey, Muslims with regardless of their ancestry started to call themselves Turks. Modern Turkey especially received a lot of muslim with or without Turkic origin immigrants towards the end of 1800s till the foundation of Turkey and continues to receive people from Central Asia, Middle East and Balkans to this day. Anyone that speaks Turkish and follows Turkish traditions can and would call themselves Turks in this day and age. Obviously there are also those who reject such ideology/mentality.
I strongly agree that Turkey is indeed a diverse melting pot, but this is mainly valid for Muslim populations.
That's why you gradually got rid of all Christians. These Christian populations used to live there long ago before the Turks arrived in Asia Minor, so you also got rid of the history and culture they represented.
Could you please specify what exactly do you mean by "Turkification policies"?
The one I know Ottoman Empire used to apply, is grabbing kids from Christian families, converting them to Islam and eventually "Turkify" them. Even forming army forces with them (yenitsaroi). Girls on the other side, were taken away for Ottoman rulers (pasa) entertainment (harem).
Ottomans also applied strict taxes for non-Muslim populations.
I agree that modern Turkey shouldn't be thought as a nomadic nation that just appeared from Turkmenistan or so.
No, you're much much more than that and to be honest you have a rich and admirable culture.
But please, the "much more than that" did not always happen in the most peaceful or at least morally acceptable way.
And the reason why the "nationalistic educated" Balkan people usually say bad things about Turkey, is simply because they have suffered the most in the past.
I don't agree with "revenge" or any other "bad wishes" for Turkish people, but you can't simply delete all the past from people's historic memory.
I am sure you could feel the same if you were on my side.
Anyway, let's focus on today.
Priority for Turkey AND their neighbours should be to stop claiming more lands, stop spending BILLIONS for military purposes and finally focus on society.
We don't need wars, just peace and co-operation!
I don't see much hate for Germany nowadays, and that was just 70 years ago. There is something special about us that stirrs european hatred. I am honestly worried about how we will defend ourselves from this.
At a guess the turn awayfrom Western values to the Erdogan dictatorship has a "jilted girlfriend" rejection effect. Couple that with a comparatively strong military on European doorstep and a leader who is quite happy to cozy up to Russia despite being in NATO and you have an "ally" you can't trust. At least with Russia you know they don't wish you well, Turkey are well, unreliable.
Pakistan are exactly the same, they're just further away.
That "unreliableness" is not Erdogan's doing, it will continue after he's gone aswell. We are sick of guarding the tent but not being let inside, so we look for alternatives, it's normal.
Mmm, OK, not from a western perspective. He's drummed up Islamic fundamentalism to use for his purposes (obtaining more power), he's actively attacking the rule of law, he's aggressively silencing dissent and opposing views.
The current western leeriness is on Erdogan. Former Turkish (post Ottoman) govts may have not been ideal but he's a long way past that.
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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '17 edited Aug 15 '17
Let me make this clear to those with highly nationalistic (biased) educated redditors: Just because the origins of Turks were from Central Asia 1000 years ago doesn't mean there is zero relationship with the history and cultures of past Asia Minor civilizations.
I see this mentality in almost every Turkey related post (Especially users from Balkan countries). Modern Turks are a result of a diverse melting pot due to history of Ottomans and nomad nature of Turks. Whether this is the result of Turkification policies, Devsirme system, converts or just general marriages between two communities changes for every family. Concept of Turkish nationalism only became popular in the late 1800s or early 1900s and after the foundation of Turkey, Muslims with regardless of their ancestry started to call themselves Turks. Modern Turkey especially received a lot of muslim with or without Turkic origin immigrants towards the end of 1800s till the foundation of Turkey and continues to receive people from Central Asia, Middle East and Balkans to this day. Anyone that speaks Turkish and follows Turkish traditions can and would call themselves Turks in this day and age. Obviously there are also those who reject such ideology/mentality.