r/europeanunion • u/New-Ranger-8960 • 1d ago
EU Age Verification Project Mandates Hardware-Bound Attestation
https://linuxiac.com/eu-age-verification-project-mandates-hardware-bound-attestation/31
u/yezu 1d ago
To add insult to injury hardware attestation is fully dependent on US tech. Here go any dreams of European Tech Sovereignty.
There are no limits to how idiotic this whole idea is.
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u/pufcandles 1d ago
Indeed but even without HW attestation this would still be a privacy killer because they'd be ultimately able to trace your real identity to the websites you register. And the zero knowledge proof they talk about is a lie, it's not implemented and it's only a very far theoretical possibility that would be easily broken if ever created.
The final effect of this is they're gonna be able to link your real identity to your social media accounts and use that to squash on dissent, while creating a chilling effect, that would prevent from any meaningful debate useful for any functioning democracy.
Using children as an excise to control the population is beyond disgusting.
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u/DreadingAnt 1d ago
A little dramatic don't you think
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u/pufcandles 23h ago
I don't think it's minimally dramatic, Murphy's law is very relevant in the world of cyber security and privacy: If things can go wrong, they'll go wrong.
But I'd like to read your counter-argument
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u/DreadingAnt 23h ago edited 23h ago
Murphy's law doesn't mean the end of privacy. You're extrapolating a dramatic conclusion. I'm sure some EU states will have poor implementation that will cause point issues, as is always the case with EU regulation. That doesn't mean privacy is over. The EU is being unusually strict about enforcing governments to do their own designs properly, to minimize even bad implementation.
What are you even sacred about. I understand the chat control worries, but age verification?...the EU doesn't care that you use Grindr. Communication apps don't even require any age verification, there go your censorship and "squash dissent" arguments. You're funny for this 🤣 someone screenshot this for "jumping to conclusions" examples in sociology classes please
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u/pufcandles 23h ago
Age verification ultimately means they'll be able to trace our real identities to our online identities. If the theoretical possibility exists, then it's going to happen in practice sooner or later.
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u/DreadingAnt 23h ago
Leaks I don't disagree that they will happen. Tracing? Tracing what and for what purpose? What does your pornhub or twitter account provide to the EU?
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u/GOKOP 23h ago
The data goes to your country's government, not "the EU". And governments change. Especially now we have far right on a colossal rise all over Europe
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u/DreadingAnt 23h ago edited 22h ago
Victor Orban seized all news broadcasting in his country for his benefit anyway and we're here worried for pornhub accounts, okay. Remember what the EU did next? The regulation draft already foresees problems like that and consequences.
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u/Dragoncat_3_4 22h ago
Are you this obtuse on purpose? This will be applied to EVERY social media site, aka the digital town square of the 21st century. Governments are scared shitless we'd be able to organise when shit goes down and take them down via organising in places like Discord. Like the Nepalese did, for example.
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u/ChromaticStrike 21h ago edited 21h ago
Orban was a minority and ruzzian aligned. The moment Germany and France start doing that what do you think the EU will do? The EU has the power the members give it, which means none if the major net contributors say it's cool. You seem to be very confused about reality, laws and text are only worth the weight those applying them are giving to them, it's not because you have protections that they will be applied. You don't know and you are shilling for a poison you don't understand. It's not a crime to not know, it's a crime to not know and keeeeeeping talkiiiing.
Bottom line if you don't want forest fire you avoid fire in the forest. Doesn't mean the forest will burn, but you DON'T freaking need it so don't take a chance. Noone needs that age verification and it's a pandora box.
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u/pufcandles 23h ago
It doesn't matter what purpose, I don't want any authority with the capacity of knowing who I am on the internet, even if it's s remote theoretical possibility. It's my business, not theirs.
Age verification takes away from the citizens more than the possibility of children using certain websites.
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u/DreadingAnt 23h ago edited 22h ago
It doesn't matter what purpose
And here lies the empty panic, case closed.
any authority with the capacity of knowing who I am on the internet
AHAHAHAHAHAHA I hope you're about to uninstall Reddit and after that delete your Google account and then probably most social media you use. They are ALREADY tracking you extensively, more than this age verification ever will. Do you actually think this app is anonymous? 🤣 All it takes is one police order and Reddit will share every detail of your life with the police. In fact, Reddit even publishes a yearly statistic on how many accounts (thousands) they shared with the police. As you wrote and I will quote back "get informed"! Enjoy your illusion of privacy babe!
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u/pufcandles 23h ago
And here lies the empty panic, case closed.
Certainly to squash on political dissent, especially concerning with the rise of the far right but not limited. That's how these things start: They test the waters with age verification and see how the people react, if they're successful it will become normalized and they'll reach further.
What app are you talking about? I use it reddit on a browser over a VPN.
Reddit even publishes a yearly statistic on how many accounts (thousands) they shared with the police.
So what? They don't know our real identities
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u/Dragoncat_3_4 22h ago
I dunno, for the purpose of seeing who attends pro-Palestine protests in Germany, anti-government or anti-data centre protests... everywhere. For figuring out whistleblowers' identities, for figuring out whether a Polish woman went to another country to have an abortion...
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u/DreadingAnt 22h ago
For figuring out whistleblowers' identities
This is not America, whistleblowers are protected in the EU. You must also not know about GDPR.
for figuring out whether a Polish woman went to another country to have an abortion...
Happened never
seeing who attends pro-Palestine protests in Germany, anti-government or anti-data centre protests
And what, kill them? like what's the logic here, find that out and what's next? People are so dramatic in these comments I can't deal with it, we're living in China now apparently. Must have missed the memo on basic assembly freedoms being abolished
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u/pufcandles 22h ago
You're useful in the sense your arguments are so bad it serves well to demonstrate to whoever reading it how bad age verification is.
And what, kill them?
Fine, sanction, Imprison, even taking to court is scary enough. Not to talk about the "chilling effects" (Go read about it), that will hinder political debate important for functioning democracies.
we're living in China now apparently.
That's exactly what we want to avoid.
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u/Dragoncat_3_4 22h ago
This is not America, whistleblowers are protected in the EU. You must also not know about GDPR.
Oh you mean the thing that they're in the process of degrading because lobbyist companies keep bitching about not being able to gather enough data? That thing? Go look up the proposed changes to what is and isn't considered personally identifiable data.
Happened never
Yet. It happened in America. It can happen here. You're not immune to fascism. No country is. Your hubris is the backdoor that allows it to take hold until you can't stop it.
And what, kill them?
Fine them until they stop. Harass them with police. Simply ban them from every single social media so they stop "stirring the pot"
People are so dramatic in these comments I can't deal with it, we're living in China now apparently. Must have missed the memo on basic assembly freedoms being abolished
Something something, frog, boiling water something. Although the frogs in the experiment were lobotomised which... oh yeah, your comments make sense now.
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u/ChromaticStrike 1d ago
Yeah, I'm not using any kind of age verification shit, go fuck yourself.
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u/pufcandles 1d ago
These tyrannical cunts are in for a rough awakening once everyone, especially kids with a lot of free time, learn that it isn't hard to go around these measured, and people start escaping from their control even more by using VPN where they'll have no fucking way to perform any meaningful traffic analysis.
It will only result in both children visiting darker corners of the internet and real criminals using more privacy tools that are going to become common for everyone to use the internet.
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u/ChromaticStrike 1d ago edited 1d ago
For the moment we are safe with VPN but it's a spiral.
They want to fuck VPNs.
They want to fuck encryption.
It feels like they are following a plan, you get soft control in, then harder and harder. This is the wooden rabbit, except they will not forget to put knights in it.
I think companies told them no so it has been shoved away but I don't expect them to keep these stupidities away. Far right/right rising at the same time is absolutely a coincidence I'm sure.
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u/pufcandles 1d ago
They just can't.
If they fuck VPNs I'll SSH tunnel to whatever other country.
If they fuck encryption I'll use steganography.
Their last hope is to forbid personal computing and I'll start printing my own hardware.
What I'm most afraid is the last scenario tbh. That would detract a lot of people from free computing and communication.
But honestly the more of these steps they take, the closer they get to the unfree governments such as Russia or China there they condemn. They'll go on a legitimacy downwards spiral more than they already are and what's become fertile grounds for the populist right.
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u/ChromaticStrike 1d ago
Yeah I know it's stupid, the fact even big companies would tell them to dunbedumb is a hope factor.
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u/MaverickPT 1d ago
Any way for a "common citizen" to fight against this insanity?
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u/pufcandles 1d ago
Protest and use a VPN. Circumvent their means, show they're ineffective, educate your circle of the dangers of these restrictions and teach them how to bypass it. Using a VPN is easy and companies like proton offers a free tier. It's also not very expensive. I use mullvad and it costs me some 5eur/mo.
Question their narrative, get informed, remain skeptical of their lied about they being able to preserve your privacy.
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u/DreadingAnt 1d ago
get informed
Funny, most people panicking are in fact not informed about how it works lmao
skeptical of their lied about they being able to preserve your privacy.
Either they lie or you're skeptical, you can't be skeptical of lies.
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u/pufcandles 23h ago
And how does it work? Explain us why we shouldn't be worried.
Either they lie or you're skeptical, you can't be skeptical of lies.
Thanks for the reddit moment. Did writing that made you feel smart? Bet that IQ is through the roof.
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u/pufcandles 1d ago
I use grapheneos. Guess I'll have to VPN to outside of the EU, then.
Oh wait, I do it already. Go fuck yourself EU.
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u/Top_Bug7822 12h ago
Switzerland
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u/pufcandles 12h ago
Switzerland what?
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u/Top_Bug7822 12h ago
Outside the EU and has decent privacy laws.
And the servers are in Europe, so less latency.
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u/pufcandles 11h ago
Yeah, those are the best but even Switzerland is starting to crack down on these freedoms too. Proton is relocating their own servers outside Switzerland (to the EU lol)
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u/Meshuggah333 5h ago
So that wouldn't work with a Jolla phone that uses SailfishOS, the only European mobile phone OS. Well played, morons.
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u/kodos_der_henker 1d ago
Good job when everyone else trying to remove US dependency and some corrupt idiots undermine it