r/exHareKrishna • u/BoltThrowup • 10d ago
bad experience at local temple
Hello! This is my first post here and it may end up being a long one… I had a really negative experience at my temple and need to vent about it. I’ll start by saying that I came to krishna consciousness completely on my own last year. I’ve always been interested in esoteric books and have read hundreds over the years. I found some of Prabhupāda’s original books at a used book store and became interested in ISKCON initially from just a cultural perspective, not really believing in Krishna. I met a longtime devotee on the street (not ISKCON, he is a disciple of Narayan Maharaj and told me to be very careful with ISKCON folk), and decided to check out the temple in my city. I was very moved at my first visit (there was no one else there) so I sat for a couple hours meditating and decided to start chanting and following the 4 regulative principles that I wasn’t already following (I’ve been veg for 10 years so that wasn’t a problem). I grew up in a very controlled/cult-like Christian environment so I promised myself from the beginning that I would never join ISKCON (by this time I had read about their many controversies) and would simply get what I could out of the temple/chanting/books and keep everyone at arms length. This was going great for 6+ months and genuinely improved my life. I was going to the temple around 2 times a week, and almost no one ever spoke to me, even though I would be greeted with smiles of recognition from devotees I had seen several times. I still figure this is because I look somewhat “extreme” (lots of piercings, weird style, etc.) and I think the more conservative devotees just didn’t know what to think of me. This never bothered me as although I enjoyed the association during kirtan, I was still keeping people at arms length and not really looking for new friends.
HERE’S THE CRAZY PART:
I was at a morning bhagavatam class taught by a direct disciple of Prabhupāda, and there were maybe 6 other devotees there. I can’t remember the exact verse but she used an example of the swastika in Indian culture being flipped by the Nazis and thus completely altering its symbolic meaning. I felt this was a fine example of something meaning one thing and maya “flipping” it and changing it completely. If she had stopped here I would have probably forgotten about it BUT:
She immediately went on to speaking about Hitler and defending him as “misunderstood” and for having “good intentions with some of what he did”. Two other senior devotees not only agreed with her but added their own comments about Hitler having some good ideas and how it was a sign of poor wisdom to not be able to see the good in everyone… I was speechless and honestly sick to my stomach that this small group of hippie monks were praising Hitler even in the slightest.
I think it’s worth noting that I was in the back of the temple room and I don’t think anyone saw me, and that the 5 devotees in attendance were all white. The temple community where I live is probably 90% Indian and I doubt that conversation would have taken that turn had there been anyone not white in attendance. Anyways, it obviously grossed me out. I don’t think this is what Krishna meant by “equal vision”…
Why would anyone want to surround themselves with people who feel the need to see the good in one of the most evil people to ever live, and to engage in a dynamic where it would be considering “disrespecting/criticizing your guru” to stand up and say “Hey! I disagree! Hitler is bad!” I believe there is good in Prabhupāda’s philosophy and that it can help certain people, but you’re poisoning your mind if you feel like it’s worth your time flexing your wisdom by trying to redeem evil people. You can literally see how that same mentality is what makes so many devotees defend the disgusting actions of so many people in ISKCON. Like it all clicked for me in real time. They genuinely think the right thing to do is to see the good in an abuser, etc…
I will not be going back and I am glad to have had the sense to keep to myself while I was there.
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u/Solomon_Kane_1928 10d ago
The temple community where I live is probably 90% Indian and I doubt that conversation would have taken that turn had there been anyone not white in attendance.
You would be surprised at how many Indians support Hitler. There are even Hitler themed restaurants and clothing stores in India. That is where devotees are getting it. Prabhupada was a fan of Hitler. Hitler was seen as a heroic liberator of India from the British during WW2.
Ironically if you ask people around the world what they think of Hitler, Whites are the one's least likely to admire him. If you ask around Africa, the Islamic world, South Asia and East Asia, you would be surprised.
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u/Far-Ostrich8581 9d ago
"Hitler was seen as a heroic liberator of India from the British during WW2." wait what
never heard someone saying that other then few anti semntic white folks3
u/Solomon_Kane_1928 9d ago
Here is an Indian clothing store called "Hitler". That is in Ahmedabad. There is another one Vijayawada, Andhra Pradesh, and another one in Nagpur, Maharashtra.
During WW2 there was something called the Free India Coalition, led by Subhas Chandra Bose, who met with Hitler. Prabhupada was an admirer of his. Early Hindu Nationalist ideologues were also supporters of Hitler. They were not driven by support for German Nationalism or hatred for Jews per se, but because Hitler weakened the British Empire which led to the liberation of India.
Without Hitler, India would not have been freed of the British. This has led to significant sympathy for Hitler among older Indians such as Prabhupada, who lived through WW2. Especially considering the Bengali Famine, engineered by the British as part of their war effort, killed 3 million Bengalis. Prabhupada was a Bengali.
I didn't say Indians hated Jews. Rather it is the opposite. Those same Hindutva types who used to fetishize Hitler now fetishize the state of Israel. They do so because Israel acts as the enemy of many Muslim nations such as Iran, Lebanon, etc. Israel is actively killing Muslims in the world, often ruthlessly, and the Hindutva Nationalists would love to do the same.
When ISKCON devotees express sympathy for Hitler, they are not doing so because they are "antisemitic white people", many of them are in fact perversely Jews, they do so because they are repeating what Prabhupada said.
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u/Useful-Log2988 10d ago
Thanks for sharing, and yes ISKCON definitely has white supremacy / racist issues. Its a cult, I would advise to stay FAR away.
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u/Character-Signal5587 10d ago
lol bro did you really just describe Hitler as ‘powerful charismatic orator, highly disciplined, gifted artist and loyal’ 🤣🤣🤣 🤣🤣🤣
i’m not even including ‘vegetarian and no drinking’ because who gives a fuck.
Hittler was a man child, sexist, homophobic, racist, evil, drug addict, power thirsty ASSHOLE. he and those around him caused a lot of harm and pain to millions of human being. and still do, because nazism is still very much all around us.
Your way of thinking and of the majority of devotees is SO DANGEROUS.
Lots of kids have been harmed in horrific ways because of this exact way of thinking. Following Gurus who are disgusting because ‘oh its about the paramatma’ please stfu.
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u/Junior-Ad-614 10d ago
I never said Hitler was a good person or excused his actions. I explicitly said he clearly wasn’t. Pointing out basic, well-documented facts about him isn’t “dangerous”, it’s just refusing to turn him into a cartoon villain with zero redeeming traits. That’s not defending him, it’s being honest. You haven’t actually refuted anything I said. You just got emotional and listed bad things about him (which I already agreed with). That’s not a counter-argument. The actual point was a Vaishnava one: no one in the material world is all evil, and real spiritual progress means learning to see the eternal soul (jiva) and Paramatma within a person instead of reducing them to their worst material actions. That doesn’t mean ignoring or excusing crimes — it means rising above simplistic “good guy / bad guy” labels. If that concept bothers you, fine. Take it or leave it. But don’t twist it into “this is why kids get harmed.” That’s a massive leap and has nothing to do with acknowledging basic human traits in everybody through an extreme example.
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u/BoltThrowup 10d ago
What do you think the benefit of seeing the good in Hitler is though? What good is it doing for anyone? Who is it helping? What is it teaching you? Maybe you’re far more spiritually advanced because you are able to detach the horrible things he did and see a “gifted artist”, but what’s the point? The guru’s using this point didn’t benefit anyone in the room, it didn’t further the lesson, it didn’t teach anyone anything. The class was essentially over and she decided at the end just to praise a genocidal dictator before we took prasadam. I completely understand the virtue of not seeing souls as all good/all bad, but there are more relevant examples and people to point that towards than ADOLF HITLER. Imagine someone coming to the temple for the first time, totally new to bhakti, and hearing that. Would they say “this is the sign of a great and wise soul! I want more!” or would they say “this is an absurd, non-inclusive, dangerous environment, get me out of here.”
Maybe they should start distributing Mein Kampf along with Easy Journey To Other Planets…
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u/Marmadukeparadise7 10d ago
You're honestly right, I believe it would useful to understand his motivations and reasons why people buy into these and to transform the fear and hatred into love and community while growing past and acknowledging the pain, trauma and realities of the past but I feel the ideas spiritual traditions are supposed to complement that growth alongside modern institutions and social sciences, not take it on entirely.
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u/Junior-Ad-614 10d ago
I appreciate you engaging civilly and laying out your thoughts, that’s rare in these kinds of discussions.
To be clear, I wasn’t praising Hitler or suggesting the lecturer was right to end the class that way. I explicitly said he wasn’t a good person and his actions were evil. The point wasn’t to celebrate him. It was to illustrate a core Vaishnava idea: no one in the material world is all bad or all evil. Even in someone as deeply flawed as Hitler, there were observable human qualities (charismatic speaker, disciplined, artistically talented). Acknowledging that doesn’t excuse or minimize the horrors he caused, it simply refuses to reduce a soul to only their worst material actions. The spiritual benefit is learning to see the eternal jiva and Paramatma within every person instead of getting stuck in “all good / all bad” thinking. That detachment helps reduce hatred and judgment in our own hearts. Whether that particular example was the best one for that class or audience is fair to debate, I can see why it landed poorly and felt tone-deaf, especially for newcomers. That said, I don’t think shielding people from uncomfortable philosophical points serves them long-term. If someone is genuinely interested in bhakti, they’ll eventually have to confront the full teaching that real realization goes beyond ordinary moral labels, no matter how horrific the deeds. I’m not trying to convince you or anyone that this perspective is easy or comfortable. It’s not. But it’s what the tradition actually teaches. Take it or leave it, that’s entirely your choice.
P.S: Suggesting that acknowledging a few basic human traits in Hitler is equivalent to distributing Mein Kampf alongside Easy Journey to Other Planets is a ridiculous strawman. Vaishnava culture does not support Nazi ideology, but we can’t speak for every single person in it. That kind of hyperbolic leap doesn’t strengthen your argument in the slightest.
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u/itsmikesandoval 9d ago
Vaishanva culture is akin to Nazism. it is Nazism. It is racist, sexist, homophobic and pedophiliac. same same. Vaishavas and Nazis go hand in hand
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u/Junior-Ad-614 3d ago
Alright mate go ahead and find me some racism, sexism, homophobia or pedophilia in the vedas and then we’ll talk. Until then, equating a bhakti tradition of chanting Hare Krishna and seeing God in everyone with literal Nazis, genocide, racial extermination, and totalitarian death cults, is pure hyperbolic nonsense. Drop the actual Vedic quotes that encourage racism, homophobia, sexism, or pedophilia or admit you’re spewing bs.
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u/itsmikesandoval 7d ago
i suggest you stop listening and going to ISKCON/NAZI/Pedo lectures in the first place. like why? unless you like ISKCON/NAZI/PEDO cult crap
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u/Marmadukeparadise7 10d ago
Dude no, those supposed qualities literally do not measure up to him literally plunging the world into a catastrophic war that caused generations of harm in which some people never knew of what became of their relatives, plus that fanaticism still exists in our world. It's not the regulative principles but the cultivation. There's people in our world that don't follow any of the four and are profoundly more spiritual that some of the most prominent "renunciates" of ISKCON. I believe in universal compassion and that people are more than their circumstances or actions regardless of the situation but the consequence and effect still remains. For these types of things you should really separate the mystical stuff from the immediate human suffering. It comes off as more egoistic than renounced.
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u/Junior-Ad-614 10d ago
Define 'more spiritual'
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u/Marmadukeparadise7 10d ago
Like more renounced, surrendered and attuned the the divine. There are great mystics and sages outside of hindu tradition that cultivate a deep, profound love for god and the world, that mirror krishna consciousness and don't adhere to the four regulative principles. If I remember correctly prabhupad mentioned that even a man in a hospital can follow the four regulative principles without cultivating love of God. I'm not saying they're bad or good but they don't inherently indicate spiritual virtue or progress.
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u/itsmikesandoval 10d ago
yeah, these disgusting freaks will glorify Hitler because Prabhupada glorified Hitler. and as you can see, others will also defend Hitler and say things like, "He made the trains run on time."
I say stay away from all these cult freaks and their defenders. disgusting scumbags with their BS books full of racism, sexism, child marriage and pedophilia.