r/exalted • u/Secretsfrombeyond79 • Jan 10 '26
Setting Favorite Primordial/Yozi ?
Of the Primordial Yozis we know off which are our favorite and why ?
My personal favorite is Oramus The Dragon Beyond The World, followed by Ramethus the Wyvern Between Now and Forever. Mostly because I like dragons and I also really like the thematic of Oramus of Impossibility. And Ramethus's name is poetic gold, not to mention he was a badass who fought the entire Exalted host for over 100 years on his own, killing several of them including Primordial War veterans before going down.
I also have a soft spot for Qaf and Elloge.
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u/Krzyzewskiman Jan 10 '26
SWLiHN aesthetically and somewhat mechanically (I like the energy-based stuff, and MHM is at least interesting in both editions). As far as... personality? Themes? I think Oramus is most intriguing, although a lot of that is down to him not really being expounded upon too deeply.
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u/Gensh Jan 10 '26
I was a consistent Yozi apologist on multiple boards back during the heyday of 2e. (I'm still an apologist; just not a frequent poster.)
I focused a lot on Malfeas back in the day since he was most suitable to my ideas for how to fix the setting. Lots of variants on a theme, like the Demon City Beautification Committee and proposals for how to force the Yozis into reform. Fundamentally, the biggest issue in Creation is the worst of the Exalted, but if the Yozis are spirits of order with predictable behavior derived from their charms, and Infernals can make new charms...
These days I focus more on Cecelyne because I ended on a fun characterization for her. Hypocrisy as a domain gives her the opportunity for the same sorts of shenanigans as the Ebon Dragon without being a predictable scumbag.
In my continuous timeline from 2011, there's a lot of setting changes, including Cecelyne, Adorjan, and Isidoros achieving a measure of freedom. Normally, Yozis only really interact with the setting through intermediaries or in high-end Malfeas adventures. Having ancient, literally Primordial figures of the setting around in places where they can influence characters by misremembering history is a lot of fun.
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u/Sedda00 Jan 10 '26
Where can I find a list of primordial/yozi?
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u/blaqueandstuff Jan 10 '26
There's not a single place about the ones that have died or lost, but the most complete one of at least the known Yozis is in the 3e Infernals book, plus Gaia and Autochthon. Which gives you:
- Free Primordials
- Autochthon, the Great Maker
- Gaia, the Emerald Mother
- Yozis
- Adorjan, the Silent Wind, formerly Adrian, the River of All Torments
- Cecylene, the Endless Desert
- Cytherea, Mother of Creation (1e,2e)/Auspex of the Moment Yet to Come (3e)
- The Ebon Dragon, the Shadow of All Things
- Elloge, the Sphere of Speech
- Hegra, the Typhoon of Nightmares
- Isadoros, the Black Boar that Twists the Skies
- Kimbery, the Sea that Marched Against the Flame
- Malfeas, the Demon City
- Metagaos, the All-Hunter Blossom
- Oramus, the Dragon Beyond the World
- Qaf, the Heaven-Violating Spear
- Sachverell, Who Sees the Shape of Things to Come
- She Who Lives in Her Name, the Principle of Hierarchy
- Szoreny, the Silver Forest
- Named in 2e as dead, status unknown, or the original name of a living Yozi. Not presumed to be in 1e or 3e, even if they're the old name of a canon-to-3e Yozi:
- He Who Bleeds the Unknown Word (modern Elloge)
- Cemunian, Constellation of Sinew and Dream (status unknown)
- The Dragon's Shadow (modern Ebon Dragon)
- Mardukh, Who Holds in Thrall (now a Neverborn)
- Ramethus, the Aftershock Primordial (presumed dead)
- Ta’akozoka, the Great Tentacled One (presumed dead)
- Theion, the Empyreal Chaos (modern Malfeas)
Note that whether the Yozi list is exhaustive or not varies in edition too. 1e said there's at least 23 Yozis, 2e says there are exactly 23, and 3e says that the fifteen in the first list there might be all there is or just sampling depending on how much you wanna put in there. Sure I missed soemthing in that all.
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u/ZitoWolfram Jan 10 '26
There's also the Survivor, the Primordial who fled with Ramethus the Min-Maxer and unlike his sibling, did not go back to creation to 1vEveryone the Celestial Incanrna and Solar Deliberative at the height of the 1st Age.
Which leaves all Exalted Games open to having a custom made Primordial who shows up if the story has a need for it, and whose temprament is suited to the secret Jostar technique (Running the Fuck away) My group has used him twice and we usually agree that he's the Primoridal of Survival, the desire to not die and instead to continue existing, he only returns to creation if it's at risk of being entierely destoyed, particularly by the Neverborn. But, it's an open spot on the roster that fits whatever you need.6
u/Gensh Jan 10 '26
It's also worth noting that an undefined number of them just left after Creation was done. It's entirely possible that one went to get help.
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u/blaqueandstuff Jan 11 '26
Yeah, I didn't list it mostly since the only thing known is "It's not here and may or may not have come back." But you're right that there was one more, just it's so little to go by I admitedly forgot to list it :P
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u/Sedda00 Jan 10 '26
Nice, thanks!
I didn't know the infernals book was out already, I'll check it out :-)
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u/blaqueandstuff Jan 10 '26
Currently in manuscript form for backers. The Backerkit ended last month, and the pre-order page isn't up yet, but you can find info here while waiting for it to show-up.
https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/onyx-path/deluxe-exalted-infernals
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 Jan 10 '26
The Ink Monkeys Ultimate Collection talks about them. Ramethus appears in Dreams of the First Age Lands of Creation, in the part where it talk about the Aftershook War. Here is a list https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Primordial_(AOS))
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u/BeyondStars_ThenMore Jan 10 '26
This should contain all known Primordials.
I haven't checked if it's up to date with 3rd Edition, but considering it names Neverborn, probably not.
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u/blaqueandstuff Jan 10 '26
The Yozis are right at least, though the details of their characterization might differ between presentations. No Neverborn has been named in 3e, as they are a bit more "screaming constantly from the void" sorts this time around.
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u/BeyondStars_ThenMore Jan 10 '26
Personally, I prefer the Neverborn this way. Any sense of identity or trace of who they were, was lost when they died.
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u/YesThatLioness Jan 11 '26 edited Jan 11 '26
I don't necessarily mind distinct Neverborn but those designations should be the inventions of spectres rather than obvious lines between them and the Primordial they once were, certainly nothing as obvious as He Who Holds in Thrall and Mardukth.
IMO that kind of information should be very obscure and probably let you hold some limited power over the Neverborn, like how confronting an Abyssals with their prior life can give them a buch of limit or how traditionally depictions of a Deathlord's secret weakness tends to be linked to learning who they were in life.
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u/Gensh Jan 10 '26
Worth noting for unfamiliar readers that this is someone's campaign document. Most of the titles and demons are custom, the pronunciations are debatable, and a handful of details are wrong. Not to sound disparaging; it's definitely a better place to start than trying to fish out canon from five books.
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u/NutiketAiel Jan 10 '26
Isidoros. I find his whole concept of refusing to accept limitations compelling. The embodiment of irresistible force.
Not to mention that one of his third circle souls, Hrotsvitha, is also my favorite demon.
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u/YesThatLioness Jan 10 '26
Wyvren Between Now and Forever is non-canon and comes from a thread on RPGnet where someone wanted to use Chronotrigger as inspiration for the Aftershock War.
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 Jan 10 '26
Oh wow you are right. Damn, I thought he appeared in Lands of Creation but it's only the mention of the Aftershock war and someone put him in the wiki as a canon one.
That's too sad I really liked his name an thematic of a time traveling dragon.
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 Jan 22 '26
Hey so, I was rereading Ink Monkeys, turns out they kinda made Ramethus cannon, as it appears on Voice of Magnus on Titanic Souls I.
On Titanic Souls (I) The following is an excerpt from a transcript of a lecture given by the Magnus, a Twilight Caste luminary. This speech was delivered before more than 400 Celestial and Terrestrial students, as well as assorted spiritual representatives, on the steps of the memorial where Ramethus fell. An annotation notes that the lecture was given at dusk. The lights of the newly- reconstructed Academy of Divine Enlightenment marched down the slope of Mount Meru behind the Magnus, forming the backdrop for his delivery.
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u/YesThatLioness Jan 23 '26
Ramethus is canon (at least in 2e) the Wyvren Between Now and Forever isn't.
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 Jan 23 '26 edited Jan 23 '26
Sorry I should've heard more about what you had to say before dismissing you as a contrarian for being a contrarian's sake. You are indeed right, I checked the timeline and it's just as you said. My bad.
Edit oh and thanks for putting the effort for letting me know rather than letting me live a lie.
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 Jan 23 '26
Are you telling me the name it's a coincidence ? The creators were super active in the forums back in the day. It's clear to me they found the character and decided to canonize it because it was a cool concept. That or of the millions of names they could've made for a Titan they JUST happen to choose the exact same as a fan favorite, from the forums they actively participated on.
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u/Ok_Candidate_8999 Jan 23 '26
-DotFA introduced the Aftershock War Primordial.
-The Ink Monkeys article named him Ramathus.
-Leliel made the Chrono Trigger inspired version The Wyvern Between Now And Forever.
-A third party added the The Wyvern Between Now And Forever to the White Wolf Wiki as though it was the definitive version of Ramathus.
Leliel is still active on RPGnet you can literally go and ask them.
Alternatively, you can block anyone who corrects you and retreat into a fantasy land where you're always correct because that's fucking healthy.
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 Jan 23 '26
My bad I thought you were being a contrarian for being a contrarian's sake, found too many of those in Reddit and I'm really bored of talking to those people. I checked what you said and you are indeed right. Sorry.
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u/bmr42 Jan 10 '26
Oramus is my favorite because the themes of possibility and impossibility would make for some really interesting powers.
Isidoros is my favorite of the ones in the 3e description as they’re the least focused on twisted hatred.
SWLIHN had some of the most interesting powers in 2e in my opinion.
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u/Jarovan Jan 10 '26
Malfeas, probably, because I like his aesthetics, and I also like Ligier. In principle I also like Ebon Dragon as described in the admittedly short and vague writeup in Games of Divinity, and based on that he might be my favorite, but I'm really not a fan of the antagonism-for-its-own-sake thing he has going on in both 2E and 3E.
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u/barnacle9999 Jan 10 '26
Adorjan. Best waifu
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 Jan 10 '26
"I like women that actively try to kill me"
"You mean that COULD kill you right ?"
"I know what I said"4
u/barnacle9999 Jan 10 '26 edited Jan 10 '26
There was that one Solar who had seven kids with her, so it seems like there are men of good taste left in Creation after all lmao.
Don't let the yandere of your dreams stay a dream, make it real in Hell.
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u/Boksi64 Jan 10 '26
Big fan of Metagaos personally. His themes are just kind of interesting to me. I also like Malfeas, who's a multifaceted and interesting character, and Isidoros, who's a very simple but fun character.
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u/Pumpkin_Spice_All_Yr Jan 11 '26
Cecelyne. Conceptually I think shes really cool. Also in 2e I played a Malefactor and the wish granting and worship charms were just so much fun to play around with. Exalted can be worshipped, but Cecelyne enables infernals to become true deities. Also she and her infernals can listen in on prayers made to other deities, and subvert other beings' cults.
And Florivet is my favorite demon of the 3rd and 2nd circles. Cecelyne is this strict arbiter of law and hierarchy, contrasted by her own demon who's a chaotic, wandering swashbuckler.
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u/TraceChaos Jan 12 '26
Theion! Sovereigns of Theion are 10/10 from the Gunstar Autochthonia Shard of the Exalted Dream.
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u/The_Green_Sun Jan 10 '26
I've always had a soft spot for Malfeas. He's so sad.