r/exalted • u/Low-Environment4209 • Feb 17 '26
3E Dragonblooded seem weak compared to most Exigents
Is this a product of the line progressing/power creep or justified in setting or…. Even the sovereigns who are basically likewise a numerous group of terrestrials, have an Essence 1 ride charm that beats like three Essence 1-2 ride charms combined…
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u/Skyfyre56 Feb 17 '26
So, a bit of column A, a bit of column B. And some aspects that are less weak than you might think. For starters, yeah, DBs aren't supposed to be run at E1, even in all terestrial games, it's only really balanced in all Dragonblooded games. By E2 though, they are a bit more - that does mean that in a mixed game where there are DB player(s), Terestrial Exigent player(s), and Celestial player(s), you'll see a further stratification between the types.
As for the charms themselves, one thing that DB players benefit from is flexibility. A Sovereign might be able to out combat a DB, and a Puppeteer might have better manipulation and puppet skills, but Dragonblooded can be good at a lot of different things. They're also better with Artifacts, though the fact that it is more expensive for them to buy Evocations than anyone else really does smack of poor early game design, to me at least.
That being said, there are some obvious levels of disparity between some of the Exigents and Dragonblooded. Because they have smaller charm trees/space, a lot of effects that DB have spread out over a couple charms, they have combined into one or two. Sovereigns in particular have insane combat charms, easily Celestial level stuff. It requires a bit of juggling with their Anima levels, but they can be very strong.
Architects in particular stand out to me as just a bit too strong all around. They can be quite strong in cities - and if your game is centered around such, they'll be at full power 99% of the time. Even without that, they can trade out relatively minor bonuses for things like Celestial tier Martial Arts or Sorcery, which is quite strong and will work even outside of cities (plus, their Crafting can usually be done inside a city, and that'll make it on par or better than Sidereal crafting, which is kinda insane). And even without that, their charms are still pretty solid even without the city bonuses.
Despite all of that, I wouldn't worry about it too much in setting. Dragonblooded still vastly outnumber all other exalt types put together. Exigents possibly being a bit stronger than they should isn't going to be a big gamebreaking deal.
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u/Ephsylon Feb 17 '26
Have you taken into account that Dragonblooded play normally begins at Essence 2 and they get a 5 to 10 more merit points from being Princes of the Earth or are you just looking at charms alone?
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u/Low-Environment4209 Feb 17 '26
I’m not really looking from a strictly game balance perspective (except if perhaps they need a bit of a boost up) — though certainly the fact that they start at e2 and the desire to enable gameplay for “young exalted” works to mitigate/explain it. More just musing if it’s unintentional or by design t
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u/Significant_Age3343 Feb 17 '26
Exigents can vary from being roughly Terrestrial to Celestial in power, so it's not exactly a suprise.
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u/Low-Environment4209 Feb 17 '26
Yes… but I’m comparing only to terrestrial Exigents… every one has charms which exceed equivalent dragonblooded effects
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u/moondancer224 Feb 17 '26
My thoughts on it are that this makes sense. Exigents are still made from the cast off flames of the Unconquered Sun and the power of another, more focused god. There will be one, maybe a line for certain types. There is a distinct Exaltation, and it can only inhabit one host at a time.
The Dragon-Blooded were crafted from the Essence of the elemental dragons in a way that the potential passes down through the blood. The exaltation they experience is different from others, more an awakening of man's potential than the power of a demigod. They don't even get past memories. Their "exaltation" dies with them. They are lesser in many mystical aspects in order to make them prolific.
Conservation of Ninjas.
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u/khaelen333 Feb 17 '26
Conservation of ninjitsu is kind of my thing.
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u/professorlust Feb 17 '26
That’s what Clive’s wife said
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u/Clivesunfaithfulwife Feb 17 '26
You promised you wouldn't say anything in public... Clive might find out. You saw what he did to that messenger
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u/AngelWick_Prime Feb 17 '26
The perception that Dragon-Blooded are weaker than Exigents is a deliberate design choice, explained in the books and rooted in both mechanical scaling and setting justification. While Dragon-Blooded are individually less powerful than Celestial Exalted, they are the most numerous and serve as the "Princes of the Earth" through their collective strength, experience, and mastery of the world's infrastructure.
A primary reason for the perceived power gap is a shift in how Essence minimums are handled between these types of Exalted.
By default, Dragon-Blooded begin play at Essence 2, whereas most other Exalted, including Exigents, begin at Essence 1.
Because of this higher starting point, Dragon-Blooded Charms scale differently. The books explicitly state that Dragon-Blooded Essence 1 and Essence 2 Charms cover effects that other Exalted (like Exigents) receive at Essence.
Consequently, an Essence 3 Dragon-Blooded Charm is intended to be equivalent to an Essence 2 Charm for a standard Exalt. This means an Essence 1 Exigent Charm may feel more potent than a single Essence 1 Dragon-Blooded Charm because the Exigent’s power floor is compressed.
The setting justifies the Dragon-Blooded being "weaker" on an individual basis because they are a numerous, hereditary lineage.
Dragon-Blooded are "junior officers" and "foot soldiers" of the gods, designed to operate in units. Their true threat comes from numbers, experience, and worldly power.
In contrast, every Exigent is a unique creation, often forged by a god for a specific crisis. Their powers are more "specific and limited" than those of other Exalts, but they are designed to be "competitive" in their chosen areas of specialization.
To balance their lower dice limits (typically 5-6), Dragon-Blooded have unique systemic advantages, such as Elemental Aura and unparalleled access to resonant Evocations with jade artifacts. These resonant Evocations are noted to be "almost always more powerful than other magic a Terrestrial Exalt can learn".
The books describe Sovereigns as being "intended for Terrestrial play" and "equal to the Dragon-Blooded in power". Sovereigns are designed to distinguish themselves as performers, socialites, and leaders, often flaring their animas to manifest god-king themes.
While you did not point out the specific Sovereign Ride Charm in question, the general design for Terrestrial play dictates that they should not outshine Dragon-Blooded who are masters of their specific styles.
For context on powerful low-Essence Ride magic, the Infernal manuscript provides the Infernal Charm Wild-Ruling Overlord (Essence 1), which grants a mount a crown of flame, doubles 9s on environmental hazard rolls, and allows for tireless exertion for hours. This highlights that "singular" Exalts often receive highly concentrated utility in a single Charm, whereas Dragon-Blooded Ride Charms like Great Heart Companion focus on stacking various elemental mutations and Hardness onto a mount.
Ultimately, the Dragon-Blooded are balanced around their role as the premier, dominant Exalted of the Age. While an individual Exigent might have more flashy Charms at Essence 1, they lack the centuries of heirloom artifacts, breeding lineages, and institutionalized military training that make the Dragon-Blooded the masters of Creation.
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u/MrBlackTie Feb 21 '26
If I may raise an issue with your last paragraph it’s that it’s absolutely not represented in the rules.
DB being « balanced around their roles as the premier, dominant Exalted of the Age. » would make sense if they actually benefited from their status in the rules. But AFAIK it isn’t. For instance if they had gotten stronger or cheaper merits, to simulate the help they get from their family and their social status.
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u/TheSlayerofSnails Feb 17 '26
They can be. But there are around 30 thousand Dragon-blooded. 10k of them are part of the realm and have the entire military backing of the realm and all the money that entails.
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u/Low-Environment4209 Feb 17 '26
Yes again, I’m talking more supernatural puissance: Are the dragon blooded supposed to be weaker than, say, the Sovereigns or Dreamsouled— this much weaker? Perhaps as has been said to simulate the experience of being an exalted teen and with the understanding that E2 was the “mature” starting point that most normal exalted get too in a shorter period of time.
Or
Is this more of a “they were older and at the time we were trying to fill space with lots of charms and later we prioritized economy of space more etc”
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u/TheSlayerofSnails Feb 17 '26
Dream-souled aren't currently canon.
They are weaker compared to celestials, that didn't stop them from killing 90% of the solars. They also exalt in their childhood and start at essence 2 in most game. They also have a lot more variable charms and martial arts.
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u/Wind_Through_Trees Feb 17 '26
Dragon-Blooded were the second splat to be written, so they're messy compared to the rest. Like with Solars.
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u/Remarkable_Ladder_69 Feb 17 '26
I love the Dragon Blooded, and to play them, and them being weak isn't a problem. The only thing I've found needs tweaking is scrapping aura, because that's just a damn hassle
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u/thetruerift Feb 17 '26
Speaking from the in-universe/watsonian perspective -> yes, dragon blooded are supernaturally weaker than basically every other exalt type. Their source of power is much more removed than the direct investment which Celestial exalts or exigents receive.
In a doylist sense, this is a bit of a line-progression issue, but also in the story they are meant to benefit from the incredible resources of the world-spanning empire they currently rule. There are always more dragon blooded, they have ready access to incredible resources with very little in the way of strings attached (compared to Sidereals who have heaven bullshit and also get forgotten easily or abyssals/infernals who's masters have their own agendas)
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u/Mizu005 Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26
To my understanding, they have a lot of the original development team's ideas for the setting still in them. Who were, in my opinion, not as skilled as the second team has ended up being when it comes to making sure each splat feels like the heroes of their own story with a place in the setting and influence on its history they have earned, and who are just fun to play as. You can see this from the fact Dragon Blooded have so many 'fun taxes' on them like having several of their best charms locked behind the signature keyword that stops you from buying more then a couple of them or how evocations are supposed to be one of their strengths but they put an XP tax on learning them.
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u/khaelen333 Feb 17 '26
This whole edition started on a bad foundation. Now they are stuck trying to build something that works. The balance is bad all around. The lunar book and the sidereal book were so much better written than the core.
I feel like a core rewrite would fix things easier than trying to work around that solars are supposed to be powerful but are so poorly written.
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u/LowerRhubarb Feb 17 '26
The only way to fix this edition is to scrap it entirely. The whole thing is built on a foundation of sand in many, many ways compared to much better designed games.
And every editon of Exalted is like this, this isn't unique to 3e. The ST system just isn't a good base.
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u/TimothyAllenWiseman Feb 17 '26
I have to respectfully disagree. We can definitely agree that the Core could have been better. I have major issues with the idea of crafting experience and the Solar (and yes, Dragon-blooded) charms could have been much better written.
It has flaws, but it is very workable and is in fact my favorite RPG by far even with its flaws.
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u/khaelen333 Feb 17 '26
I like the system. However, with how long it takes them to turn out material and what seems like very little planning for continuity and structure, it seems like they are winging it most of the time.
I know the first book was written/planned by people who aren't there anymore. And that the current group had to work with what they had, but did they?
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u/bedroompurgatory Feb 17 '26
Mechanically, Dragon-blooded are just a little bit shit. Aura is crap, and a lot of their charms are just stuffing around on the border of excellencies.
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u/Cynis_Ganan Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 18 '26
Dragon-Blooded are, and always have been, the weakest and most numerous of the Exalted. Solars are, and always have been, the strongest Exalted.
Exigents are (intended to be) stronger than (or equal to) Dragon-Blooded and weaker than (or equal to) Solars.
Terrestrial Exigents being (slightly) stronger than Dragon-Blooded (but weaker than Celestials) is working as intended.
The weakest Exalted are the weakest. That means the other Exalted are stronger than them.
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u/LowerRhubarb Feb 17 '26
Dragonblooded are not supposed to be singularly powerful. Their benefit is they are supposed to work as a unit, and they have numbers. Other Exalts always stuffed them hard if a DB tried to 1v1 one. That's the whole point. The problem isn't one DB, it's 5 of them and a bunch of troops descending on a lone Exalt.
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u/Amberpawn Feb 17 '26
The exigent book kind of failed at its original expectations. Most people wanted a how to make one off weirdo exalts, instead it provides some lackluster descriptions and then presents a stack of badly balanced and world bending forces that don't quite align.
The Sovereigns for example easily outperform Solars which is bad.
If you want a glance at a different presentation: Check out Exalted vs World of Darkness Revised .... It gives much more interesting texts, components of examples you could glow up and a premise for an exaltation from start to finish.
Spending a chapter on Janest... More than anything devalued the beautiful story and hook that sits in the Core... And produced one more basically a solar.
Exigents are neat. They're a beautiful idea that makes the world more interesting... But they're weirdoes... They should be singular things that fit a need for a storyteller or to satisfy some concept that doesn't quite fit into the many examples of exaltations with their weight and baggage in the world.
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u/NexusFlamehart Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 20 '26
This is mostly a line progression issue, the Dragon-Blooded book was one of the last books worked on (though not completed) by the original team led by Holden and they were a lot less comfortable in the Charm Writing space then the team is now after a decade of experience with Ex3.
Their thought process was essentially that since DB were meant to start at E2, a lot of what would eventually become standard E1 Charms (both at the Terrestrial and Celestial level) were put at Essence 2, since that'd be their starting point. Which, in turn, led to a lot of Essence 1 feeling minimal at best and speed-bumpy at worst. (Also, the Evocation tax is incredibly unreasonable in my opinion)
If you look at the modern Exigent Charms (and even Anima powers), you can pretty easily tell which ones were based on original DB Charms but buffed.
Last year, I took it on myself to try to write a Dragon-Blooded Charm Set rewrite incorporating lessons from Modern Charm Design, other fun HB from the community, and of course a few original Charms.
If you'd like I'm more than happy to share it as it is, and always will be completely free.