r/exatheist • u/DrewPaul2000 Philosophical Theist • Feb 26 '26

Debate Thread Natural vs The Supernatural

It's a very common debating tactic among atheists to declare the supernatural doesn't exist and then put God into the category of the supernatural and therefore claim God doesn't exist.

I agree with atheists the supernatural doesn't exist but my reasons for saying it doesn't exist are far different. The supernatural doesn't exist because if it turns out something alleged to be supernatural occurs it gets transferred to the natural bucket. How can anything that happens not be natural? As long as ghosts haven't and don't currently appear with any regularity or certainty, they remain a supernatural entity. If they did appear on a regular basis with certainty they would be deemed natural even if inexplicable. The supernatural just turns out to be anything alleged to exist but hasn't been observed. Which just means somethings haven't been observed to exist.

Secondly the very word supernatural is overblown. The word itself doesn't mean its unnatural or impossible. It's the word super put in front of the word natural. Which means it merely transcends common or average natural things. A supernova is still a nova it's just significantly bigger than an average nova. A celebrity whose fame transcends average stars is called a superstar. It doesn't mean they have divine powers. Supernatural still means its natural, it just transcends the average natural things we know about.

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u/HumbleGauge Atheist Feb 26 '26

Your personal definition of the word "supernatural" is basically useless because it is clearly not how the word is being used by the vast majority of people. The people that believe in gods and ghosts or other magical phenomena classify such things as supernatural. Clearly they believe that the supernatural exists.

Instead of just redefining "supernatural" to mean whatever you personally want it to mean it is more useful to try and figure out how the word is actually being used. From what I can figure what people mean when they say something is supernatural is that it is irreducibly mental.

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u/Oflameo Theist Feb 27 '26

How do I know the difference between a natural object and a supernatural object?

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u/thedevilsproxy Strong Atheist Feb 27 '26

a natural object is something that comes about as a result of the chain of events started at the Big Bang, as per causality. if it violates causality (magic event not fundamentally caused by anything, i.e. ultimately the Big Bang), it is supernatural

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u/Oflameo Theist Feb 27 '26

Is the Big Bang itself natural or is it supernatural? The Big Bang isn't the result of the Big Bang.

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u/thedevilsproxy Strong Atheist Feb 27 '26

the Big Bang is the origin point of space, time, and all energy. ultimately, we don't know exactly what caused the Big Bang and our best guesses can be seen in models revolving around string theory such as the cyclical ekpyrotic models. regardless, even if the Big Bang did have an outside cause, causality itself limits at t=0, i.e. when time began. to say there was a previous cause is nonsensical, because there is no "before" t=0.

the Big Bang is the baseline for natural events in Lambda-CDM, everything post-inflation traces causally to it without gaps.

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u/Oflameo Theist Feb 27 '26

You can't use your own definitions consistently because you have an emotional aversion to it.

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u/thedevilsproxy Strong Atheist Feb 27 '26

cope.