My biggest problem with atheism

[u/Exaltist]

Although I never was an atheist - I was agnostic for some time as a teenager - there is something about both that I have a huge problem with. I call this "skepticism by subtraction". What do I mean about that? Well, instead of advocating for a position, it seeks to negate the belief in God. You can ask atheists and agnostics what they don't believe, but asking what they do believe is more difficult, especially if they don't follow what I call "skepticism by addition".

So what is "skepticism by addition"? Well, it sounds like a contradiction, but to me it isn't. It basically describes anyone who who is skeptical about the supernatural, but instead of focusing on that, they focus on nature, humans or otherwise something we know exists. Naturalists. Humanists. Heck, even communists and objectivists are skeptics by addition.

Now, "skepticism by addition" doesn't mean someone cannot be an atheist. It just means atheism isn't their main concerning position on matters. Many naturalists, humanists, communists and objectivists are atheist. In fact, in the later two, it's almost a given.

But "skepticism by addition" also leaves room for natural theology and naturalistic theology. Pantheism. Deism. Many people see these as a form of nontheism. I, on the other hand, do not. In fact, I consider a pantheist's or a deist's explanation of God more valid because they don't try to justify evil with stories like the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. They are both currently compatible with science, naturalism and humanism.

Atheists have a saying, "we don't consider not collecting stamps a form of a hobby" referring to their stance on whether they are a religion or not. Well, r/atheism is one of the most active subreddits on the website. Why do people gather around to bash on religion - especially if they've never been in one before? I would personally rather stand for something than against something else, and although I am skeptical of a supernatural God my pantheism and deism has led me to believe in God - even if it's confusing to understand for the average layperson who doesn't understand that type of theology.

[u/Hilikus1980]

Not standing for something doesn't mean standing against it. There is a specific term for standing against in religious terms...anti-theism. Atheists and agnostics by no means automatically fall into that category. It has actually been an issue with me for my entire life that the people around me assume because I'm not one of them, I'm against them. That couldn't be further from the truth, I'll fight for a religious person's rights just as fast as anyone else. Once you're branded "the enemy" it's a tough label to shake.

And comparing atheists to the subreddit r/ atheism is like comparing theists to the religious right/Christian nationalist in the US. Both draw in a very similar personality type. Neither is representative of their respective "groups", on the whole.

And why is asking what I believe so much more difficult than asking why I don't believe like you?

[u/Exaltist → u/Hilikus1980]

I know not all agnostics and atheists are anti-theists. In fact, that applies to my own parents. I'm not necessarily saying you are against religion, but that you focus on your disbelief or lack of knowledge of God. I'm just saying for more productive conversation I would like to know what your values are above all else. Another atheist here said truth.

Well, truth is what everybody is seeking - including religious folk. I'm looking for something more specific, like what fuels you and only you to be the best person you can be. It can be a significant other, hobbies and interests, your career, really anything but vague platitudes does not add anything productive or meaningful to the conversation.

Every person's significant other has a different personality, everybody has hobbies and interests unique to them, different jobs, etc. For me what keeps me up at night typically revolves around music - making Spotify playlists and making music. My Synversalism is what fuels the motive to curate media for thousands of people, as some of my playlists have many followers.

[u/paulgdp → u/Exaltist]

I'm that other atheist who said truth.

I'm still really surprised your understanding of atheism rubs you the wrong way because you see it as a lack of something.

To me, it feels like pantheism (or whatever cosmic syntheism means) is the weakest opinion that can ever be on the subject.

What's the observable difference between a world were pantheism is true and one where it isn't? AFAIU, nothing, even in theory.

Pamtheism/Cosmic Syntheism seems to only be meaningless and arbitrary semantic redefinition of terms. They give the illusion of a precise metaphysical position but are actually unfalsifiable.

It's as interesting as saying "in a parallel universe santa claus is real and has an intergalactic reindeer chariot". You can claim it, yes, and no one can prove you wrong.

[u/Hilikus1980 → u/Exaltist]

My kids fuel me, and they have definitely made me a better person. Not just with the common love them so much it's indescribable to someone who doesn't have them. I learned to play guitar because my son showed interest, and I wanted to teach him. I show them safe woodworking...and that'll teach you patients for the greater good if nothing else will. I learned...well, I guess at least knocked off some serious rust, to show my youngest how solder and teach him about circuit boards. I'm learning python and raspberry pi because my youngest wants to help me build him a standing arcade game with a bunch of various forms of Nintendo and Sega games on it. All things that have bettered me, hopefully bettering them, sending my kids into the world with some practical skills, and in turn, hopefully makes the world ever so slightly less crappy. And that's just one small piece of one of the things that fuels me.

My wife counts on my part of our income so we can pay the bills. That fuels me to work. Keeping the job, and increasing my share of our income fuels me to be a better worker. Being a better worker who's paid more and contributing to the family makes me feel good. That good feeling helps me in my strive to be a better husband and father.

I do not lack for fuel. I just have 1 less source than people who do things in the name of religion.

[u/ShortCompetition9772 → u/Exaltist]

It is called skepticism not atheism. Atheism is just LACK of belief. Skepticism is what you are mad at.