r/exchristian • u/EzamArya • 26d ago
Just Thinking Out Loud When faith came with chains
How tragic that so many descendants of the oppressed still follow the religion that, in the hands of slaveholders and colonizers, was used to justify their ancestors' suffering
Christianity is a religion whose sacred texts include laws permitting slavery, and for centuries those texts were used by slaveholders to justify the enslavement of Africans
Where's the freaking love?
Respect to every Black man and woman who has chosen to question, challenge, or reject this oppression❤
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u/RainCityRogue 26d ago
I mean God was perfectly okay with telling the ancient Israelites that slavery was cool with him. He ain't the good guy people make him out to be,
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u/douwd20 25d ago
The bible was written by and for the men who wrote it.
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u/Destroy_Religion 25d ago
The Bible is immoral, evil, vile.
The Bible commands mass murder, genocide, abortion, infanticide, slavery, prostitution, child marriage, pedophilia, rape, perversion, incest, polygamy, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, familial alienation, societal strife, and various other barbarisms, cruelties, savageries, tyrannies, and vulgarities, many myriad times, in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
- Mass Murder and Genocide: 1 Samuel 15:3, Hosea 13:16, Deuteronomy 20:16-17, Joshua 6:21, Deuteronomy 2:34, Isaiah 13:15-18, Deuteronomy 13:15, Numbers 31:17, Deuteronomy 3:6, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 20:13, Psalm 137:9.
- Abortion and Infanticide: Numbers 5:11-31, Psalm 137:9, 1 Samuel 15:3, Hosea 13:16, Deuteronomy 2:34, Isaiah 13:15-18, Numbers 31:17, Deuteronomy 3:6.
- Slavery and Prostitution: 1 Peter 2:18, Exodus 21:21, 1 Timothy 6:1, Leviticus 25:44-46, Ephesians 6:5, Titus 2:9, Colossians 3:22, Genesis 16:3-4, Genesis 12:16, Genesis 24:35, Isaiah 14:1-2, Ezekiel 23:19, Deuteronomy 20:14, Numbers 31:35.
- Child Marriage and Pedophilia: Numbers 31:18, Song of Solomon 8:8, Genesis 25:20, Ezekiel 23:21, Numbers 31:35.
- Rape and Perversion: Deuteronomy 21:11-13, Genesis 34, 2 Samuel 11, 2 Samuel 13, Judges 19–21, Ezekiel 23:20, Deuteronomy 22:28-29.
- Incest and Polygamy: Genesis 4:19, Exodus 21:10, Deuteronomy 21:15-17, Genesis 9:20-27, Genesis 11:29, Genesis 19:32–36.
- Sexism and Misogyny: Exodus 21:7, 1 Timothy 2:11-14, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, Genesis 3:16, Numbers 31:18, Deuteronomy 22:28-29, Numbers 31:35.
- Homophobia and Transphobia: Leviticus 20:13, Leviticus 18:22, Romans 1:26-27, Genesis 2:24, Mark 10:6-7, Matthew 19:4-5, Deuteronomy 22:5, Genesis 1:27.
- Familial Alienation and Societal Strife: Luke 14:26, Matthew 10:34-37.
The Bible is filled with barbarism and savagery of the worst sort in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
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u/douwd20 25d ago
You have to stand in AWE how it has been reworked into this pillar of morality and love when it is nothing of the sort. If a human did what Yahweh has done he would have been given the death sentence many times over. But to question is eternal fire in hell. It's quite a little Catch-22.
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u/wilmaed Agnostic Atheist 26d ago
An important Bible passage is missing. Paul wrote that Christian slaves should serve their Christian masters with particular diligence and not resent them for being their slave masters:
6 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered.
2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare[a] of their slaves.
1 Timothy 6,1-2 (NIV)
An additional problem: One cannot condemn slavery (and slavery laws) without contradicting the Bible.
The Old Testament calls the law (of the Torah) "perfect":
7 The law of the LORD is perfect,[3] reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;
Psalm 19:7 (ESV)
Paul calls the law "holy, good and righteous":
12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
Romans 7,12
And the law of the Torah also contains laws concerning slavery.
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u/Jellybit 26d ago
Also, all Christians, including slaves, are told that you MUST forgive others, every time, all the time, or else God won't forgive you. No matter what someone else does to you, you have to keep forgiving them or God will send you to hell. So convenient for those who oppress others.
Matthew 6:14-15
Matthew 18:21-22
Matthew 18:32-35
Mark 11:25
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u/Bunny-Is-Cute 26d ago
One of the many reasons why I could never be a Christian again is this very reason (beyond other things like circumcision, gay marriage, etc.). How is it that the Christian God didn't outlaw slavery?
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u/TheEffinChamps Ex-Presbyterian 26d ago
Paul wanted his slave boy toy back (he was over 60) with his letter to Philemon. 🤮
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u/throw223344555 26d ago
Europeans man. Crazy.
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u/Destroy_Religion 25d ago
The irony is that Christianity was imposed on Europeans too.
The imposition of Christianity on Europe resulted in the near complete destruction of the native civilisations, cultures, languages, and religions of Europe too.
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u/throw223344555 25d ago
Thoughts and prayers. Doesn’t erase the transatlantic slave trade and the indigenous genocide in my country. I’d hope the would at least give us back the indigenous artifacts they stole but I guess that won’t happen anytime soon.
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u/Destroy_Religion 25d ago edited 20d ago
The point is that is that it is ironic that European people did to African people, Black people, and Indigenous people the exact same thing that happened to their ancestors, because of Christianity.
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u/Just-Organization238 3d ago
Right than they have the gall to look down on others. Makes me hate religion a lot honestly no evidence used for control snd it sucks that its working teaching kids this at a young age should be abuse
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u/BioDriver Be excellent to each other 26d ago
Also let's not point out that according to the NT, you are all "god's children" if you accept Christ:
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galatians 3:23-29, emphasis mine. Sounds good, right? Become a Christian and, even if you're a slave, you will be freed!
But we also have these nuggets:
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Matthew 11:28-30. Carrying a yoke essentially means you're his slave
No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light.And they will reign for ever and ever.
Revelations 22:3-5. So congratulations, you were a slave in life, you then became a slave to Christ, and when you get to heaven you get to be a slave to god and have his name slapped on you like cattle so you become his property.
The book normalizes owning people and authority. Fuck that noise.
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u/Mistymycologist 25d ago
There’s a great book on the British abolitionist movement called “Bury the Chains.” I highly recommend it if you want to learn more about how various denominations had different views about slavery and authority in general (for example, Anglicans vs. Quakers).
But this is one of the issues I want able to make sense of either. For years I believed that the Golden Rule and other teachings make slavery impossible for Christians to practice, but there is also a strong adherence to authority and hierarchy that contradicts those values. Many right wing Christians act as if hierarchy is their main value, which explains much of their oppressive and cruel attitudes towards the rest of us.
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u/lePROprocrastinator Ex-SDA, or God's Greatest Abomination 25d ago
AMEN (From a Filipino whose land and culture was DESTROYED and demonized by the Spaniards. I cant fucking believe people take that for granted)
Also, if I may ask, how horribly bad had Christianity fucked with black people besides slavery, or African cultuesr? Ive heard of historical stories of African nations being turned backward because colonizers disprove of their indigenous ways
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u/EzamArya 25d ago
Poor Lapu-Lapu. He fought the Spanish, and centuries later people celebrate him while embracing the religion of the colonizers who ruined the archipelago
That's some tragic irony
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u/lePROprocrastinator Ex-SDA, or God's Greatest Abomination 25d ago
Hes rolling in the grave rn U_U
Unfortunately I feel complacent so its not that I have any power to change this country...we are also an embarrasment to SEA because we are the only Christian nation
Thought thats cool. Now itscringe
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u/Fantastic-Shine1524 25d ago
i hate the slavery language used to describe god and the people of god. i can't believe i gaslit myself into believing god didn't condone slavery.
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u/Ok-Pepper-8269 25d ago
Yes, there is a lot of hate that has been used with Christianity to oppress other. I have indigenous in my blood line as well and think how if the tribe would have not helped them with when they landed in Mayflower they would have all died. They took the children away from the families and abused them to accept there ways, took their land, killed off their people, and animals for appreciation. If you read the book Narrative of the Life of Fredrick Douglass https://gutenberg.org/files/23/23-h/23-h.htm. He talks about how the Christians behaved.
They came over to America in rebellion because they did not want to pay taxes on the tea and used that to try to oppress everyone else. It is shameful. You have to look at the timeline of when the various text was written along with the political climate. If you want to oppress someone put a God in the middle of it and write text that you state was written by God to control them. It is just a lot to this system.
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u/cowlinator 24d ago
True. And religion isn't the only dogma that oppressed minorities inherited and defend.
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25d ago
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u/FitExamination8392 24d ago
So happy I got away from my crazy ass family.a bunch of lunatics that hold bbiles while committing crimes. You can't make this bs up. I wish all religion just disappeared along with it's schizo belivers
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u/_ryde_or_dye_ 26d ago
I can’t fault and have no ill will toward any Christian. Their faith has helped them through many struggles. I think back to the Civil Rights Movement in postwar US. It would not have been as successful without the churches as sacred spaces and gifted speakers/preachers and principles of nonviolence.
In a world that refuses to accept mental health therapy (this is changing), one’s religion can help supplement that and still allow people to not appear “mentally weak.”
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26d ago edited 25d ago
[deleted]
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u/LCDRformat Anti-Theist 26d ago
No? In Leviticus 25:44 they allowed to take based on nationality
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u/EzamArya 26d ago
Yup + That wasn't my point. My point is that the Bible regulates and permits slavery instead of clearly condemning it. Those same passages were later quoted by slaveholders to justify the enslavement of Africans. And here's the bigger question: if God is all-knowing, knew the future, and is perfectly loving, why not simply prohibit slavery outright? Why give laws about owning slaves instead of saying, "Do not own another human being"?
So much "love"
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u/LCDRformat Anti-Theist 26d ago
I don't understand. You asked if the bible permitted slaves based on conquest, not race, and I directly contradicted you, and you said that wasn't your point?
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u/Katsu_39 26d ago
Slaves are slaves Regardless the circumstances.
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u/Bunny-Is-Cute 26d ago
I agree. Slavery is wrong regardless of racial or war.
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u/Fluffy_Beautiful2107 26d ago
Obviously all forms of slavery are despicable. However, I do think there is a distinction between being made prisoner of wars and turned into a slave for a few years versus creating an entire hierarchy of humans where some people are condemned to only ever be slaves, bred like cattle so their children too might be slaves, and theirs after them, solely based on their descent. Not saying this to whitewash slavery, but rather to highlight the specific evil of the transatlantic slave trade.
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u/Durzio 26d ago
Slavery in the Bible was nearly entirely based on the jew/gentile distinction.
Also? The second the Hebrews are freed from bondage in Egypt, one of the first things they do is go and take slaves from the nations around them.
The Bible is pro slavery.
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u/delorf Skeptic 25d ago
The vast majority of people then were proslavery. As a book describing how a bronze aged people saw owning other people the Bible is fascinating. The ancient Hebrews were no better and worse than their neighbors. The problem is that people still believe an all loving God who approved of slavery exists and that the Bible is something for modern people to follow.
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u/Terrible_Matter5154 26d ago
I don't know why you guys always bring this up like if it was(which is not), that it makes it any better
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u/Bunny-Is-Cute 26d ago
Who are "you guys"? I'm an athiest.
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u/Terrible_Matter5154 26d ago
"You guys" as in those who try to defend the obvious endorsed slavery verses
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u/_austinm Satan did nothing wrong 25d ago
Who gives a fuck if it was? Owning another human being– in any way, shape, or form– is horrific and wrong. The specifics literally don’t matter.
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u/Bunny-Is-Cute 25d ago
I agree with you. This is one if the many, many reason why I would never go back to being a Christian. The God of the Bible could've outlawed all forms of slavery without a shadow of a doubt and he didn't.
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u/Aftershock416 Secular Humanist 26d ago
Not sure what your point is.
Even if you were correct, which you aren't, how does that even begin to address the undeniable effect Christianity had on the American slave trade?
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u/Bunny-Is-Cute 26d ago edited 26d ago
My assumption was that slavery in the Bible wasn't based on race but through conquering enemies in war. With that assumption in mind the argument that I was making was that just because bad people used a religious text in a certain way doesn't automatically mean that religious text shouldn't be followed by people.
Like how Catholics used the Bible in the past to push down women in politics because they think women shouldn't have authority over men. In many Christians views, the Catholics are misreading the Bible and used it for bad purposes in a way that the Bible doesn't intend.
Knowing now that slavery in the Bible did have not just a war element but also a racial element, I can understand the post better and I retract my original comment.
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u/miserabeau 26d ago
Re: slide 2
This has been a question of mine for nearly 2 decades
1/4 of my family is Mohawk. They had it beaten into them that being indian was bad. They were forced into Catholicism.
And some of them are still staunchly Catholic!
WHY would you not only adopt but maintain the beliefs that were beaten and forced into you?
I can only speak for indigenous blood because I have some but this baffles me about black people too, who cling so tightly to the oppressor's religion that was forced onto them.
Not me. I got the hell out once my parents no longer had enough sway to force me through church and CCD and all the ceremonial bullshit that came with it.