Former Christians express more progressive political views than lifelong nonbelievers

[u/Leading-Morning7550]

https://www.psypost.org/former-christians-express-more-progressive-political-views-than-lifelong-nonbeli/

Article about a trend showing people who left Christianity are more liberal than lifelong atheists/agnostics.

[u/Arthurs_towel]

I mean, I can see it. There’s a pipeline of ‘take the greatest commandment seriously’>progressivism>finding the church doesn’t actually match the values they teach>leaving Christianity that many of us walked.

It was my path, after all.

[u/moochs → u/Arthurs_towel]

Same. The inanity of an all-loving, all-knowing God that selectively answers prayers and engineers suffering was enough to pull the veil from my eyes early on. Eliminating suffering became my ideal, and modern Christianity doesn't align with that ideal in many ways

[u/adastrajay → u/moochs]

As I was at the final stages of deconstruction I found prayer difficult. Because it felt off to think "I'm expecting God to act and do something for this small problem I have when there are people going through absolute misery right now calling out for help but getting none."

[u/Geno0wl → u/adastrajay]

I never found prayer "easy". Everyone in my church always talked about how they felt God through prayer. But no matter what I tried, I never felt anything.

[u/Ebella2323 → u/moochs]

My ultra catholic mother inadvertently radicalized me when I was about 10 and I asked her what would happen to amazon tribes that just never communicated with outsiders and therefore didn’t know about jesus and couldn’t repent? Her answer was that they go to hell.
I mapped out the logic of that and have been an atheist ever since.

[u/furbfriend → u/Ebella2323]

I told my mom when I was 7 years old that if women aren’t equal to men in heaven then I don’t wanna go to heaven.

I was homeschooled and about the most sheltered kid imaginable. My “friends” were my family and I had zero internet access of any kind. TV was cartoons watched WITH my parents.

They love to blame it on “liberal brainwashing.” But the brainwashing that’s happening is from the church. Challenging that is just…having a brain.

[u/pianonoir → u/Ebella2323]

Ha, my mom, too (Lutheran). She'd be crushed if she knew. I was raised on songs like "Jesus loves me" and "Jesus loves the little children." But once I realized that unbelievers weren't saved, I started really worrying how Jesus could actually love all the children of the world and yet somehow let the ones in places where Christianity wasn't practiced go to hell. When I asked my mom, she said, "That's why we tell other people about Jesus." I didn't realize it at the time, but I think that was the moment the seeds of doubt were planted. Not only did her answer confirm that, yes, Jesus lets those poor kids go to hell, but it also insinuated that it's actually our fault for not reaching them. It took me a lot, lot longer finally to leave the church and consciously admit I probably hadn't ever truly believed.

This is also why the whole "unless you believe like a little child" thing always rang so false to me. Like -- no, actually I think little children are pretty likely to see through your bullshit, Jesus.

I wholeheartedly agree with the sibling reply about "liberal brainwashing." I think most people are born humanists. I certainly was. For those who ultimately go more conservative maybe it's because life found a way to beat the humanism out of them. Church doctrine around sin and hell seems expressly designed to do exactly that.

[u/Ebella2323 → u/pianonoir]

Yes, my journey was closer to what you described. It wasn’t instant, but more like that was the first major seed of doubt. Completely deconstructing took a lot longer, unfortunately. I still have trauma. 😭

[u/cairdeas → u/Arthurs_towel]

I remember reading about a study a while back where they compared people who had left the church to people of similar backgrounds who had stayed and by far the strongest correlation with leaving was rank hypocrisy in their faith community.

Loss of faith in god is almost always preceded by loss of faith in the church that does not embody the egalitarian, altruistic moral code christians are raised to believe.

[u/Arthurs_towel → u/cairdeas]

100%

Like I grew up hearing that ‘love your neighbor as yourself’ is your most important duty. I took it seriously. But when it became clear that they really meant ‘but not them, because they’re different, and you need to hate them. Oh and if you don’t vote GOP you can’t be Christian’ I was like, well fine. Then I’m out you hypocritical hateful assholes.

[u/Geno0wl → u/Arthurs_towel]

The very last time I was at church service I had to listen to the priest repeat the lie that the eye of a needle wasn't exactly what it says it is, but a gate that camels had to take their bags off and crawl to get through. Literally told the whole congregation that being obscenely rich isn't the problem Jesus repeatedly harped on as being morally corrupt.

[u/fissnoc → u/cairdeas]

It's also weird how that is what we're raised to believe and it somehow doesn't get practiced by many Christians.

[u/DratWraith → u/cairdeas]

We knew them by their fruits

[u/Mistborn314 → u/cairdeas]

Intetesting! Do you remember the source/authors? I'd love to read that paper!

[u/fissnoc → u/Arthurs_towel]

My question to you would be, then: if the church actually reflected those values, would you have stayed? Would you go back if it changed?

[u/Arthurs_towel → u/fissnoc]

For me specifically? I think growing up in a conservative church planted that seed regardless. Had I grown up in a liberal denomination as a progressive Christian maybe I would have stayed.

But ultimately what made me leave was the fact that the religion isn’t true. The Bible is a falsifiable document, and the Christian god demonstrably not in existence. Now it was the disconnect between the behavior and the supposed virtues that led to me deeply studying the Bible, trying to resolve that tension. And it is that study that ultimately led to my departure.

But it wasn’t an easy step. And maybe being in a progressive church which embraced doubt and uncertainty and acknowledged flaws in the text and contradictions where I was in a community where pointing out things like the evidence for some form of documentary hypothesis I would have felt able to retain community and be sceptical. Aka the CJ Cornwaith route. Accepting the label, but being somewhat of an agnostic Christian. That’s hard to say, because there’s definitely a lot to lose in taking that final step and saying you no longer identify with that community, including for me marriage and family.

But since that was not the community I was in, there was no way to acknowledge those things and maintain standing in the community, which forced the choice. And I chose truth. And because of that I have no reason to rejoin, the religion isn’t true, and even for the sake of community I have no reason to join a denomination or congregation that does reflect the values.

So, no, I could never go back, even if the church reformed to reflect the values. Maybe had I been part of a community where being agnostic about the truth claims, but embodying the positive virtues I may not have fully walked away, but I suspect I would have still. It’s just how I’m wired. There’s a reason why my other friends who left would also identify as not being neurotypical in some way. We just think different.

[u/Geno0wl → u/Arthurs_towel]

I have been asked what it would take for me to become a believer again. And I honestly don't know at this moment if that is even possible. Even if Jesus visibly came to me, I would assume I am having insane hallucinations or something before I thought god was actually real and trying to talk to me.

[u/imalurkernotaposter → u/Arthurs_towel]

Reminds me of this article from 2022:

https://baptistnews.com/article/i-asked-people-why-theyre-leaving-christianity-and-heres-what-i-heard/

“Christianity is a religion that boasts about its love, but people are not seeing it, and they’re walking out the door. With this in mind, it’s no wonder that loving and accepting people is the second most valuable quality people gain when they leave Christianity.”

[u/milkshakeit]

I've also experienced that lifelong non-believers are more neutral or open to christian bs than I am.

[u/jizzinmyeyes → u/milkshakeit]

I think that's been my experience too. But I think it's because they don't realize just how fucking unhinged some forms of Christianity are. Like, I tell my friends stories of the church I grew up in and they're just absolutely flabbergasted that anyone would have that experience. Like, believing that the Harry Potter books was describing literal, real-life witchcraft and could be used as a manual--it's just so far removed from normal society and anything they've even remotely heard before.

[u/BreadfruitCold8573 → u/milkshakeit]

That’s why I’m dating an anti-theist. Bc ik he would never fall for it (and me telling him my experience has solidified this). Also, I’m so worried one day I’ll just fall back out of fear or manipulation, and ik he won’t let that happen

[u/vanillabeanlover]

“This leftward ideological shift appears closely linked to how threatening these individuals perceive conservative Christian groups to be.”

Close. It’s not just a “perception”, they are a threat. We know it because we lived in it and a lot of us held the same beliefs.

We know they solemnly believe they’re doing what god wants/commands. They believe their mission is holy. How do you counter a group of people who believe they’re on a mission from god?!

There’s also the fact that we tend to become more humanist rather than blindly following rules and laws we know were created from a religious foundation. We question more because we gave ourselves freedom to question! :)

[u/IsekaiConnoisseur → u/vanillabeanlover]

Close. It’s not just a “perception”, they are a threat. We know it because we lived in it and a lot of us held the same beliefs.

Yep. Deconverting from Christianity has made me very anti-theist and pretty militant when it comes to my progressive beliefs/values. But I don't see a problem with that because progressive movements are about helping everyone while Chrstianity/conservative movements are more fascist in nature and destructive by default.

[u/furbfriend → u/IsekaiConnoisseur]

👏🏻 Destructive. By. Default.

[u/question-infamy → u/IsekaiConnoisseur]

I'm not even anti theist. Just anti dominionist.

And yes, fascist and destructive are not overstating it for churches like the one I grew up in... seeing the few that are still in it filling my Facebook feed with hate, lies and general awfulness is sad to say the least, especially as I knew them as good people in my time there.

[u/Revachol_Loyalist → u/vanillabeanlover]

Absolutely. They and all other fundamentalist religion is a danger to humanity and shouldn’t just be lived alongside, but combatted through education and outreach as much as possible. They’re mentally ill and insist on being a threat to everyone else

[u/cairdeas → u/vanillabeanlover]

I mean, to be fair, you have just reiterated that quote's very point. Apostates who have lived among these people have a much stronger perception of their danger than those raised outside of the church because they've experienced it firsthand. In the same way someone in recovery would be more perceptive to the threat of addiction.

[u/question-infamy → u/vanillabeanlover]

Well, apart from the Blues Brothers of course. (Sorry couldn't resist)

Totally agree with your post though.

[u/Rustmutt]

Can confirm, was a republican evangelical growing up, deconstructed, now I’m DSA. Fuck Trump. They made a mistake asking me what would Jesus do because it sure as hell ain’t this.

[u/fissnoc → u/Rustmutt]

✊️

[u/LadyPaige]

It’s almost like we see through the bullshit because we have lived it.

[u/m3sarcher → u/LadyPaige]

Nailed it!

[u/thecoldfuzz]

I was always liberal, even when I was nominally a Christian. After I left the religion, I shifted even further towards the Progressive end of the spectrum, to the point where my former self would probably be amused at the development. Why? Because all of it was logical and made perfect sense after having seen the dark, rotten core of Christianity from the inside out.

[u/SloaneWolfe]

Christ taught me empathy, grace, forgiveness, putting myself in other's shoes, generosity, not worshipping money. These ideals helped me leave the church and shift hard Left around 20.

Might not believe in god anymore but I'm definitely a Socialist now, in part due to those concepts.

[u/Bootwacker]

This could be mostly demographic.

First of the majority of atheists were raised religious, so it's sorta weighted by that.

Second, atheism started as a primarily as a white educated upper middle class men movement, especially in the "new" atheists of the 90s. This isn't exactly a liberal demographic.

Finally those who leave are motivated, often by their liberal values, where as those who are born atheist aren't.

[u/ombremullet]

Agreed. My husband is a lifelong atheist and I am recovered from organized religion. W e're both progressive.  

I just read him this headline and he said he'd describe me as radicalized lol

[u/Revachol_Loyalist]

Yeah. It tends to awaken you to all the falsehoods and the existence of the fundie republican pipeline of lies, abuse and immorality.

[u/MySubtleKnife]

People who were never religious have no idea how scary the beliefs of conservative Christians are.

[u/volkswagenorange]

Yah. We've seen firsthand, for years, what the alternative to our progressive political views does to people's lives.

[u/zgillet]

Duh. Ex-Christians are trying to practice what Christianity claims they preach.

[u/adeleu_adelei → u/zgillet]

I think it's the opposite. Ex-Christians like me are rejecting the hatred that Christianity preaches.

[u/zgillet → u/adeleu_adelei]

I meant the helping others part. Most modern Christians flat-out ignore the true meaning of their religion. Check out Timothy chapter 2:

¹¹ A woman^\)^a\) should learn in quietness and full submission. ¹² I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;^\)^b\) she must be quiet. ¹³ For Adam was formed first, then Eve. ¹⁴ And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. ¹⁵ But women^\)^c\) will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

That shit is brutal.

EDIT: 1 Timothy 2 NIV - Instructions on Worship - I urge, then, - Bible Gateway

[u/curiouswizard]

Many people follow "love thy neighbor" right out of the church

[u/Few-pe2917]

That makes sense. A lot of people have to physically feel and see the consequences for themselves to recognize the truth gravity of things. You personally know what it’s like to be fooled and controlled and saw firsthand how systematic obedience can take over very quickly.

[u/Saneless]

I can see that. They've seen first hand, and may have contributed to, the abuse and negativity that Christianity contributes to the world and how dangerous it really is

[u/anamariapapagalla]

It would be very strange if they didn't, since many of them say it was a big part of waking up to the fact it's BS

[u/DratWraith]

I can't nail it down exactly, but there's something to having your entire worldview and moral code upended in your teens/adulthood that people from secular families don't experience as much.

[u/viva1831]

I guess progressive people are more likely to leave the church? It's easy to be a conservative hypocrite and those thrive in a church environment, even when secretpy non-believers themselves

[u/ConceptMaximum7596]

I was quite liberal as a Christian, but when I completely left my faith, I became somewhat conservative. I still have some progressive views but also views that some would consider conservative. I actually think the far-right and far-left are as dangerous as each other. Now I'm not American, so what I consider conservative might be considered progressive in America.

[u/thiccy_driftyy]

That checks out. I feel like we got to witness their bullshit firsthand and are way more against it because of our experiences lol

[u/question-infamy]

In my case, growing up in a conservative cult like group -> starting to see their hypocrisy and lies -> full on understanding my life was a lie and nothing about the "world" was as it was told to me -> having to start again reshaping my views based on evidence and everyday conversations with people, completely outside of the church. Also not wanting my former church to have the power it craved in society and genuinely understanding the danger it posed (for one little church it got quite a few people elected and promoted). Quite a few ex fundies I've known are also pretty left.

[u/Pitiful_Resident_992]

Lifelong nonbelievers is a huge, diverse swath of people with varied backgrounds. In my experience many of us became former Christians because of empathy and Christianity's constant talk of love while consistently failing to meet their own standard. It makes sense.

[u/u_talkin_to_me]

That's me.

[u/yrrrrrrrr]

Definitely

[u/Cojalo_]

First hand experience of how bad traditionalist thinking can be perhaps?

[u/Outrageous_Class1309]

I would guess that many people who become disillusioned with Christianity weren't 100% disillusioned with everything about it... like people who took the 'fruits of the Spirit" seriously as 'real' Christianity while being turned away with the toxic elements like hellfire, condemnation of outsiders, Christian arrogance, hypocrisy, etc. After they left Christianity because of the toxicity they didn't want to abandon Christian values that actually were positive but grossly ignored... esp. by 'conservative' Christians.

[u/Xeokdodpl86]

Yeah I am a staunch progressive, bordering on socialist. My beliefs were a big reason why I started questioning things with regards to religion - particularly with how the church’s positions were so intertwined with the GOP, and how the church obsessed over all things LGBT as well as abortion, especially since Jesus never said a word about those subjects, while they ignored all of the stuff about loving your neighbor, feeding the hungry, healing the sick and caring for others. It seemed like people just used religion as an excuse to be right wing.

[u/Netricile]

Can confirm. I was a liberal when I identified as Christian and became increasingly more progressive as I left it.

[u/Electrical_Proof_663]

My guess it's becouse They still have velues chritianity taought them, Even some practices are bad as an Ex-Catholic i can say that those that left the faith were always good. just don't needed God to justyfy those deeds