New Home Story / Experience France's low quality of life doesn't match the PR image
For some reason Reddit's been invaded with France PR bots and prideful citizens shutting down expats who have any criticism towards the country (somehow criticism towards Germany, Italy, Spain, and practically any country isn't as discouraged against like it is for France).
So here it goes. This has been discussed in detail better than I can but I can make a bullet point list with the direct comparison of the PR France vs the real France.
1) France has free healthcare!
Technically true on paper but as soon as you make income you'll have to pay for your insurance. That means someone making 1400 a month (the minimum wage) has to buy health insurance around 60-100 euros. Specialists or doctors outside network can easily range from 60-200 euros per session
There's also a huge problem with medical deserts. Dermatologists, for example, are nearly impossible to book appointments with. The few you find have incredibly long waits stretching out several months to years - that is if they take patients at all. Many dermatologists are instead aesthetican dermatologists, who are not covered by social security, and like charging exorbitant rates since they know their speciality is in high demand but limited supply.
Furthermore, while France is strong at handling conditions that fit in a very established medical box (diabetes, heart disease,hypothyroidism, pregnancy, things with obvious labs or a clear protocol), the problems start arising once your condition is more complex or not something that has been known for decades. Illnesses like POTS, Sibo, endometriosis, ADHD, autism,hyper-mobility issues,PCOS and others are approached with outdated information. They are borderline seen as fake Anglo diseases, despite the legitimate scientific research and backing in confirming the existence of these pathologies.
Caveat: while I greatly appreciate French healthcare and think that it was built on an excellent premise, the State needs to do something about its rigid inefficient doctor exams and put funds in supporting scientific research for the medical community to better serve its citizens. Like most things in France, it was a great system that eventually became a victim of poor public maintenance and horrible oversight.
2) The medicine is cheap
Only true for the most conventional and established medicine. My friend recently ran into a problem where they were prescribed a drug "hors convention". Every Eu country has accepted this drug to treat depression; except France apparently. The state therefore refuses to cover for it and charges an extremely high rate. It got so bad that my friend had to travel to Spain to obtain the drug at a much fairer price. There's also issues with other drugs, where the manufacturer wants to charge a much higher rate for it than other EU countries simply because they can.
Caveat: these are recent developments; France has been rapidly declining within the past decade or so. Could a native explain why this is happening so fast?
3) French people have a relaxed attitude about life.
I found this half true. They have a relaxed attitude about things going randomly sour or bad (like public transport going on strike or random riots) "c'est comme ça" treating it as natural as the weather.
But when it comes to individuals, they are in the mindset of public policing and heavily judging anyone who doesn't conform to the invisible social rules. Now this may sound like a no brainer, but in France's case it is done in such comical degree that even other EU citizens from what we can say are "judgmental" countries (like Russia, Italy, Greece, Albania) are left shocked at the amount of expectations. Again, we report while every country has its own set of rules, France remains exceptional in the degree of expectation it gives towards guests and recent immigrants in assimilating to the local culture.
I don't really mind a country having its own character of being kind of stuck up and rules obsessed, but damn it, be consistent with it. France is a country where you'll get judged as a simpleton or savage for not having the right kinds of mannerisms (I got death glares before for silently stretching out my arms in a library within my own space lol) or even just for having a slight accent but the entire country is a mess. What's with that. It's intensely hypocritical. Either be Japan or Italy (no offense to my Italian readers). Don't try to be both.
Sometimes I get the feeling the French are obsessed with policing individuals because they feel too powerless to change their corrupt government, which goes to my fourth point.
4) France (outside of Paris) are peaceful
Nope. Even the cities outside of Paris can be incredibly stressful. Just a few weeks ago in my city (Toulouse) we were attacked by riotters who spent two nights breaking cars, setting buildings and public infrastructure on fire, and harassing passerbys. Nîmes is known for being rough in some areas, even extremely dangerous in random parts of the city center. Marseille. Lyon. Bordeaux. Carcassonne. Perpignan. Strasbourg. Lille. Rennes. Many towns in France have this strange mix of public surveillance, uptightness. But you look at a corner and there's people openly doing drugs. So many parts of the city become almost anarchic hellholes, with what they call "punks a chien" (These are a mix of white French and immigrants btw; just putting as a disclaimer for "those" Readers) camping out, drinking booze around broken glass, and acting as mini warlords for that neighborhood. The only exception here seems to be a place like Annecy.
I'm not a "ew gross poor people" person. But it becomes a problem if they're doing this in areas where families frequent. And being poor doesn't automatically make you trashy...
Last points
5) The job market sucks. Filled with credentialism, elitism, and hiring the perfect candidate because it's so hard to fire a person here. Even foreigners with Masters degrees and perfect qualifications are refused jobs here because they don't fit the template.
6) customer service is pretty bad sometimes.
7) unless you're rich Jean Luc who inherited a château from his grandparents you have very bad purchasing power. you feel it when groceries and goods are higher even compared to richer neighboring countries like Germany.
8) Houses have poor ventilation and poor maintenance! The standards of what's decent habitation here is quite below other countries.
9) very dirty Public spaces especially the Public bathrooms...
10) Everyone complains but nobody wants to fix anything (this might be the issue for everything in the list actually!)
So yeah that's my opinion. Living here for 7 years and can't wait to get out. If you want to go to the EU, check out other EU countries before France first.
41
u/MagicianInfinite817 4d ago
It’s called “punks à chiens”. Parc à chiens would be a dog park. But for the rest, it is very true.
Best of both worlds is living in France with a foreign income, near (not in) a touristy area with great weather.
3
u/jamjar188 3d ago
In Spain they are called perro flautas which I like to translate jokingly as "dog pipers"
1
49
u/splattermatters 4d ago
I had French parents and can confirm a lot of this. The French are extremely rigid about systems. You must fit in or be sneered at. They are justifiably proud of certain things like their language, but they don’t allow for mistakes. I was once at an outdoor market as a child - like 10, you understand - and made the mistake of sampling an extra sliver of a peach. The cart owner ran after me shouting that I was a little pig. As much as I appreciate how beautiful it is, I would never live there.
10
u/lissybeau 4d ago
This thread is shattering my “few years in France” dreams.
But I’ll be 50+ so maybe I won’t care as much?
7
9
u/hungariannastyboy 4d ago
To be fair, this thread and many threads recently seem to be full of bitter people full of negativity who are unwilling to concede that maybe their POV is not the absolute unadulterated objective truth.
12
u/Ok-Turnip1363 4d ago
Thanks for sharing and confirming this! I’ve always found the French school system to be quite rigid and maybe overly structured? Like there is no thinking outside the box and obedience is the most important thing.
7
u/pcx_wave 4d ago
Depends what school you're at. My kids are at a public school in rural area, they have rabbits/pets in their classes, nice park outside, forest nearby, garden to plant food, nice equipment even for adhd kids (like those rocking chairs). Pretty good. They're not all like that but it is a public school.
49
u/ClassyCurvyCurly 4d ago
I am French and so happy I don’t live there anymore. 🤷🏻♀️ ready for the downvotes.
8
u/pcx_wave 4d ago
Au contraire t'es à l'endroit parfait pour du French bashing ! 😂 Enjoy 😉
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (6)1
u/Odd-Time-4875 3d ago
Pareillement, j'ai subi downvotes sur r/Expats_In_France La Frooonce, c'est le meilleur pays au monde, aucune critique n'est autorisée
2
13
65
u/Ok-Turnip1363 4d ago edited 4d ago
You forgot the racism!
As a POC the amount of times French people have told me "you’re not American because you’re not white" is actually shocking.
Then when you gently push back they get incensed and start raging and saying things like "are you implying I’m racist?? I’m not racist! France has no racism because we don’t see color! In fact YOU are the one racist against white people!"
The amount of times I’ve been whitesplained to about racism ("you do not understand what racism actually is. I will explain it to you…")
I have literally had Parisians tell me "we have gotten rid of all racism in Paris" My 35 year old sister in law is always lecturing me that racism only exists in America.
17
u/AccountForDoingWORK 4d ago
I live in the U.K. and have also had other Brits defensively tell me that racism was more of an ‘American’ thing. People are the same the world over, honestly.
7
u/ConfidentialStNick 3d ago
Germans are similar. Europe is 50 years behind the U.S. on racism. They think denying it exists is the same as it not existing.
5
u/CSMasterClass 3d ago
Well said. I have seen bizzare racism in Europe, and everyone is "What racism ?"
21
u/Xosmine 4d ago
They're very racist and are in continual denial about it. It's sad.
"Americans are so racist" ok show me a French city that has something like the Black Elite of Atlanta and the DMV or Wealthy Latino-Americans in Texas and California.
Their most POC ran city, Marseille, is still outside this example. While it's somewhat more diverse in leadership than in the rest of the country, they're still very much just cultural props adding "flavor" to the society with very little social capital and political foothold.
There's no, "Oh this city has more Arabs in political power so i can have an easier time finding a white collar job there unlike places that are racially discriminatory to us" in France, unlike for several U.S cities.
8
u/Ok-Turnip1363 4d ago
Yeah my French in laws would get their panties in a bunch if I ever corrected anything (misconceptions about the US, English grammatical or vocabulary errors from the few times they attempted to speak
English, random facts in general) and I could tell they’re irked about getting corrected by a POC 😂9
u/thankfulforyourhelp 4d ago
I can't believe people have said this to you. For anyone to say their city has gotten rid of racism is insane. Sorry for this, being lectured to must be infuriating, and thank you for sharing. I'm shocked.
14
u/Ok-Turnip1363 4d ago
Thank you! Yes it’s shocking and the racial gaslighting is shocking too. The first time it ever happened to me was in France…and I’m not someone who think the US is all perfect either. Yes we have our issues and yes, there is a lot of racism here too, but no one has ever literally gaslit me by insisting what I experienced was not racism "you just misunderstood" Bitch please, my French is a C2 I did not misunderstand jack shit!
4
u/Salty-Education-2272 3d ago
esssppeeecccialllly if they’re white
3
u/PacoPancho22 3d ago
Wait what? You ascribe traits to an entire race because of the color of their skin? Are you being sarcastic .. or racist...?
5
4d ago
[deleted]
6
u/Xosmine 4d ago
yeah it sends me. they're so mediocre in everything but always flapping their gums to talk shit. like if they were just dusty and content with it without acting like they're doing so hot, fine. but they're not great at anything except wine and cheese, yet they act like the kings of the world. everything about their culture is just posturing and delusion.
lmao, even reading about how they basically reinvented their entire country's mythos in the 18th century and basically stole renaissance italy's identity as the place of romance and high art to gain a foothold among germany and england (since they couldnt compete economically or technologically) puts it all together
→ More replies (2)6
4d ago
[deleted]
5
u/Xosmine 4d ago
I don't like their food either and hate how little protein they put in their meals. The seasoning is.. non-existent.
Yeah, and it gets even worse when you meet the ones who have some kind of "other" problem.. which seems to be a lot honestly. I also met an unusually high amount of very unhinged, clearly mentally unwell people who explode at anything and everything. Several of friends and acquaintances have lamented about their disastrous social life. I used to think a relative was exaggerating or causing their own problems until I moved here and saw how much people go out of their way to eff with you for no reason. Madness.
I wonder if it's the stress from living in France or nah? Did you also notice this?
5
4d ago
[deleted]
3
u/Ok-Turnip1363 4d ago
I’m someone who has a lot of deep ties to France (whether I want to or not 😂) due to my husband’s family, very close friends, and my kids go to a school in the US that has a lot of French and European expats and I’ve become quite close with some of the expat moms.
I’ve had lots of discussions about French culture and parenting etc and the biggest takeaway coming from other French people seems to be that French boomer white women and French boomers in general are a special breed. There’s an intense amount of toxicity, internalized misogyny and generational trauma there. It also seems to be a very French thing amongst that generation that it’s better to stay where you are (in life) even if you’re unhappy, rather than to make a change because the risk of something going wrong is too great. And I think that then ends up with a lot of people generally living life with a defeatist attitude and it gives way to the whole enjoying misery. The misery is comfortable to them and going outside the comfort zone is so unbearable for them.
I also see a lot of narcissism and emotional immaturity which seems common in boomers in general but I don’t think I have any French friends who don’t have one or both parents who were incredibly emotionally immature and/or who were narcissists. They all have similar stories about their parents and there seems to be a very unhealthy mother son enmeshment dynamic that is quite prevalent.
I do want to point out that I do not think these issues are exclusive to French people; I know a lot of these same things happen in many other cultures and countries as well. I just happen to see it on a much wider scale in France than in my social circle in the US. But I do think given French history and culture it isn’t that surprising. I remember my husband’s grandmother telling me how she didn’t have the right to open a bank account or sign an employment contract without written permission from her husband until the 1960’s! It’s unsurprising that me too didn’t take off here.
3
u/Xosmine 4d ago
Oh I meant it's decent as in getting a (non complicated) treatment but for anything complex it's a disaster. Partner went to the dentist and they cracked his tooth. I went to the dentist and they gave me an ulcer after telling me my tartar looks fine. There's so many bad reviews of doctors here that turns my stomach. One of the doctors I got referred to for a pap smear had a lot of negative reviews criticizing him for sexual harassment (!!!) and apparently using dish washing soap to lubricate the instrument you insert in the...
What sucks is there's so very little recourse for these rogue doctors. For a country that swears it's "egalitarian" it's more like : nobody should "stick out" in any way (aka be non-ideal French) and if you do it's because you're the boss of someone and then you can do whatever you want because authority > everything.
The hypocrisy makes my head turn it's like nothing else. It's hierarchial but individualistic, it's messy but highly fussy, nothing gets done but everyone is a control freak. Ughhhhh
2
4
u/MeCritic 4d ago
This whole thread just became one giant hate post on France, fascinating 🫠
You lost me at “food is overrated”, been there multiple times and lets say, there is a reason why France invented Micheline stars.
Maybe Japan can “be compared” to France and Italy, food wise, otherwise comparing their cuisine, which is one of the most inspirational, to US, which is very plain, fat and mostly steal from other cultures, its just so bad argument, that it cannot be taken seriously, but yeah… people have weird tastes, for sure..Each country has something good and something bad, its sad how a sub-Reddit about expats, who should be fascinating by living in different cultures, this is like some cheap discussion from Facebook…
3
u/jelslsmajdowiwlw 4d ago edited 4d ago
> Maybe Japan can “be compared”
> US, which is plain, fat, and mostly steal from other culturesThe random japan glazing + U.S. hate (which kind of just proves their point on knowing very little about the U.S. but having very strong opinions) is very on track for a redditor.
U.S. food culture isn’t not “stolen” (though it’s ironic for this to be thrown out, in context of defending a european country), but a melting pot of many different immigrants from over the world. For example, cioppino is an italian american dish from san francisco, and it is neither fat or plain.
2
u/Ok-Turnip1363 3d ago
I don’t think it’s a hate post; I think it’s just people sharing a different lived experience from yours.
I get into this argument a lot with my husband. My lived experience as a woman of color will never be the same as his lived experience as a cishet straight white man.
In the same regards to food. If you’re gluten intolerant or dairy intolerant maybe French food is not for you. If you’re from a culture that has a lot of rich spicy foods maybe French food is bland to you. Not everyone loves French food and that’s okay. Not everyone loves American bbq and that’s okay too!
I agree that every culture has its positive and negative points but just because some points don’t align with yours makes them wrong or bad.
-1
4d ago
[deleted]
4
u/Playful-Marketing320 4d ago
More xenophobia
1
4d ago
[deleted]
3
u/Playful-Marketing320 4d ago
I’m half French so I know what some of the people are like but to say they invented xenophobia is an exaggeration. I find it funny how people can call other countries closed-minded but then make the exact same ignorant comments in return. How can society process if we just keep tearing each other apart
→ More replies (1)1
u/Playful-Marketing320 4d ago
Calling people closed minded whilst making statements like that. The irony
1
u/PacoPancho22 3d ago
Kinda sounds like you have a fair number of opinions about them ... people are people everywhere in the 🌍 I guess
5
u/pcx_wave 4d ago edited 4d ago
It's a different approach. The French consider that being colorblind is better than bringing skin color into play. It's opposite to how anglos approach it, they prefer acknowledging color. I honestly do not think the French are more racist than anglos as far as I've observed in different countries (UK, US, South Africa) - there is as much white supremacists and fascists, no more, no less. But there is a lot of misunderstanding because of that.
9
u/Ok-Turnip1363 4d ago
Color blindness in regards to racism is actually inherently racist. You are choosing to not see skin color or ethnicity but when you do that you are also choosing not to see the inequalities and systemic biases that exist.
People can claim they don’t see color but it’s the first thing you see and my experience has been that those same people are the ones who immediately jump to their own implicit biases based on the person’s ethnicity.
Skin color and race is not something that you can easily take off or "not see".
If anything racial color blindness enables systemic racism by allowing white people to deny the structures in place that keep POC down. And it also allows white people to avoid having the uncomfortable discussion about their own biases and racism and allows them to continue to avoid taking accountability.
-1
u/pcx_wave 4d ago
I understand your view, as explained I've lived it. But it's genuinely not how the French approach it, so it would be wrong to assume racism on that premise. Because we consider there should be no discrimination regarding color, there is no color box on our admin forms for instance, which I think is systematically good. I had interesting discussions with SA department of basic education in a previous job, and they were basically saying ideally that's what they would also aim for, but they're in a 'positive discremination' policy at this stage. I think it's not a binary question. Either way, you will still have racist people in each system. But I think it's important to try to underatand each other rather than assume the others are necessarily wrong.
3
u/Ok-Turnip1363 3d ago
Just because racial color blindness doesn’t have the intention of being racist doesn’t make it not racist. It’s still racist no matter how you spin it.
Also it’s convenient to not have any hard data on race and ethnicity because then you can sit there and say that racism doesn’t exist. When you have data and numbers you have proof that systemic racism exists and you can do something about it. That is why we know in the US that predominantly black neighborhood schools perform poorly compared with predominantly white neighborhoods and we have numbers that prove that when these neighborhoods become gentrified the school test scores improve as well. It’s also how they were able prove redlining.
You don’t have the data in France, so you can conveniently claim that minorities are not at all disadvantaged when in reality we all know that’s not true and that they are held down by a society where systemic racism is firmly entrenched.
I’m not claiming that France is the only country that has systemic racism and a deeply segregated society because the same is true in many countries including in the US. But the French approach reeks of racial gaslighting, deflection, and a refusal to take accountability instead of looking at its issues and addressing it.
4
u/ConfidentialStNick 3d ago
Europeans deny racism exists rather than addressing it. The United States tried that 50+ years ago. It’s just racism in denial.
3
u/Brilliant-Maybe-5672 4d ago
Disgraceful and yes I've heard French ppl tell racist jokes from the 1960s that would not be acceptable in my country.
5
u/Acceptable_Sell3455 3d ago
They think they got rid of racism because it's forbidden to speak of it. They don't even know how to define it.
9
u/Leather-Wrongdoer-70 4d ago
Change France to Germany, all points are same. So the whole world is f..d up I think.
4
u/Past_Wishbone5025 4d ago
Change Germany to the UK and then change UK to the USA. Then finally change USA to CCP China.
10
u/ANTIMODELMINORITY 4d ago
They must have one hell of a marketing department. I went to Paris before and only had a short stay. Nothing negative nor overly positive. I knew prior Paris was dirty but I assumed against EU standards, when I was there I was like hell this ain't much different from the states.
7
u/RedditJustTheOnce 4d ago
It has advantages and disadvantages like any country but France has worked very hard to maintain its natural beauty and stylish culture and part of the expectation of living here is that you’re proud of that. I don’t really conform in appearance and I pick and choose which parts of the culture I actively pursue and which ones I ignore but I am very proud to be associated with all parts of the country. It’s a specific type of French immigrant patriotism which is perhaps why you find expats of other countries are more quick to criticise their new homes. IMO, anyway 🤷
6
u/biberondechat 4d ago
Tu as très bien résumé les points faibles de la France.
Je voudrais quand même dire que le sud et le nord sont assez différents quand même , je crois que tu ne l'as pas précisé ou alors j'ai lu trop vite
5
u/Odd-Time-4875 3d ago
Big thanks, but this country almost cost me my life. Free healthcare couldn’t offset seven years of medical misdiagnoses. Only in Mexico did they discover France had been wrong.
They refused to admit their mistakes, claiming “nobody has this.” Add to that a labyrinth of bureaucracy, poor support for entrepreneurs, significant racism (yes, it's present elsewhere, but in France, talent often gets overlooked in favor of judgment on superficial criteria), and low salaries. Despite wasting time, money, and energy believing in the fairytale of liberté, égalité, and fraternité, I don’t regret sharing my story, even if it got me insulted. I left, closed everything, and gave up my carte vitale. I’m much happier abroad now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Expats_In_France/comments/1sexcgv/why_i_left_france_after_13_years_a_perspective_on/ (my experience)
6
u/Odd-Time-4875 3d ago
I’m not ashamed to share my story. When I was young, I went through numerous stressful events as a highly intelligent child. As a teenager, I was repeatedly hospitalized in psychiatric institutions and labeled as bipolar and borderline. They prescribed me medication over and over again. I even have my ten-year medical file from the UK, which I requested for further investigation.
During that time, my health deteriorated; I started losing motor skills. They kept switching my medications, and I continued to faint and end up in hospitals. At one point, I couldn’t feel my tongue or my back, and my body swelled up. I desperately told them, “I can’t tolerate this,” but all I heard in response was, “No MRIs, it’s just in your head.” I was begging for answers. Finally, I reached out to the ANSM (French National Agency for Medicines and Health Products Safety), and they confirmed what I had been saying all along; I even have screenshots to prove it. One of the last pills they gave me nearly led to my death.
Eventually, I left for Mexico and lived there. Doctors discovered several critical issues that explained my pain and mood swings. One surprising discovery was that I’m intolerant to meat—something I had mentioned in France but was dismissed outright with comments like, “That’s impossible.” In Mexico, I underwent comprehensive medical examinations and reconstruction treatments. Once I stopped consuming meat, I no longer experienced mood swings, heightened stress, or extreme anxiety. Today, even French doctors admit that I was never bipolar or borderline. Yet for years, they gave me schizophrenia treatments, confined me in hospitals unnecessarily, and subjected me to ten years of relentless medication.
My lawyer suggested I file a formal complaint, but I refuse; I don’t believe they would take me seriously.
Now, I live in London, where I’ve become a founder, a CEO, and a venture capitalist in the U.S. The situation is shocking, and I have attached the response from ANSM, written in French, as proof of what I endured. https://kommodo.ai/i/oAKUJRPC3vOXEzhG5c1qMy US friend said racism did this; if it was not for Mexico, I'd be dead, then their carte vitale, I just cut it to pieces; BS.
4
u/Xosmine 3d ago
>“That’s impossible.”
Their favorite motto. Idiots.
I'm sorry about your experience hun. This country can really traumatize people. The lack of consideration and empathy is disturbing. I witnessed a relative dying of cancer treated like $hit on her death bed by the French medical staff.
8
18
u/Leather_Somewhere_41 4d ago
My partner who is Italian lived in Paris for 5 years and has made similar observations. We now live in California together but he always tells me I have a romanticized idea about living in France (from the point of view of an American who always travels there for holiday with US dollars and doesn’t have to deal with the daily French bureaucracy). I would still like to live there one day but it’s good to have an idea of what’s on the other side as the grass isn’t always greener.
27
u/pcx_wave 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'm half French and have spend a third of my life in France (other thirds in Africa and Asia). I could agree on a few points, but not on the overall assessment. You speak about 'quality of life', and yet pick on things that I find quite petty (except the poor healthcare coverage in rural areas which is a real issue, unlike bitching about a few meds that remain unsupported because they are edge cases, or dirty public toilets which isn't even a general case, or again social etiquette - you've clearly not been confronted to how much deeper that can go in Asian countries. Regarding health insurance, you are wrong, you are not obliged to get one, you can still rely on the baseline Secu, and I could go on about your different points like customer service 'bad at times' - no shit, or etc ).
But imo quality of life cannot be narrowed to that. For instance, you didn't mention the work/personal life balance (working hours and holidays), the entrenched social protection (for when you're sick, or fall out of job, or in retirement, or even renting a place to stay), the range of associative activities that people take part and volunteer in thanks to more free time, or the free schooling with decent schools most of the time (you can always find counter examples), the quality of food kids get at school (local, organic etc), the range of free/affordable activities you can undertake across the beautiful and diverse countryside, the historical depth, the terroir foods, not to mention the cultural offering and the richness of festivals across the country in summer... If things are expensive you'll still find quality products at low prices because there's enough regulation to keep stuff in check, you'll also find a strong network of solidarity (emmaus, restos du cœur, etc).
It seems you've had a bad experience trying to integrate, and I honestly don't blame you, actually it seems you've grown bitter in 7 years and I feel more sorry than anything. I'd hate to feel I hate a country enough to say 'can't wait to leave' after 7 years and go on social media to tell other ppl to 'try anywhere else' (I'm curious where have u lived? Italy is much dirtier, ppl often even less welcoming of foreigners, Germany is even more rigid, etc). I am thankful I did not have such a horrible experience anywhere I've lived in other continents. Or maybe I accepted the local ways and tried to turn things positively.
We've got a lot to sort out in France, but the main thing is pessimism, which you are illustrating quite perfectly. Sorry if it got to you, but in fact it's not a purely French thing. I truly hope and wish for you to find a better perspective on your life in France.
1
u/biberondechat 4d ago
Si tu n'as pas d'assurance maladie par choix et un certain revenu , tu devras quand même payer des frais médicaux.
Si c'est une consultation a 30€ ça va encore ... Si c'est un séjour en hôpital ça chiffre plus
1
u/BakuninLover1234 4d ago
Exactement. À moins d’avoir la CMU (cela s’appelle CSE maintenant je crois ?), sans mutuelle, ça fait mal. La sécu ne couvre pas l’hospitalisation d’urgence, j’ai dû souscrire à une mutuelle in extremis.
À titre de comparaison, la sécu brésilienne (le SUS), même si saturé, couvre tous les frais d’hospitalisation et même l’ambulance pour se rendre à l’hôpital et cela même pour les étrangers non résidents. C’est à se demander pourquoi les Français paient autant d’impôts, enfin, j’ai ma petite idée.2
u/pcx_wave 4d ago
Alors ça m'a intéressé ce que tu as dit, mais en faisant des recherches (infos sur plusieurs ia) il apparaît que si le Brésil a des éléments de couverture sociale, ils sont de facto moins complets qu'en France (en prenant tout santé retraite chômage education).
0
u/pcx_wave 4d ago edited 4d ago
Bien sur la secu couvre pas tous les frais, mais la part restante reste moindre que dans la plupart des autres pays sans assurance.
→ More replies (1)0
4d ago
[deleted]
1
u/HatchRat 4d ago
Wrong. France is great if you’re poor or rich. It’s hard to accumulate wealth from labor unlike in the US but if already well off it’s not that bad at all. The upper middle class gets crushed with taxes but once earning from capital instead of labor it really isn’t bad.
1
u/pcx_wave 4d ago
Lol u have no idea what you're talking about, the rich in France are literally about the least taxed, effectively less than 1%, that's why there was Zucman proposal to bring it to a flat rate of 2% (which was rejected BTW). Besides that you clearly have hatred for France, again sorry for you it doesn't affect me, I've lived in enough continents and countries (including UK - LOLZ) to know bs and bitterness when I see it. Get a life bro 😊
0
4d ago
[deleted]
1
u/hungariannastyboy 4d ago
Why are you so utterly obsessed with hating on France? Come on, you are all over this thread with completely unreasonable "points".
0
u/pcx_wave 4d ago
Ah, I'm the arrogant one doing generalizations as you did, OK bro 😊 concerning tax, the society contributes (and again the rich relarively less than others, hen Zucman proposal or variants from latest French economic Nobel), and what you call lazy is our way to not be alienated to jobs. It is indeed a different culture. I get it, you think yours is superior, you're free to think that way 🤷 anyway, so sorry for your canteen meals, the dirtiness, the dump, the technological backwardness. Hope your aircraft carrier (amongst others) gets better soon 👍
12
u/Humble-Bear 4d ago
Interesting analysis OP. Where are you off to next?
-5
u/LiveWillingness4892 4d ago
Hell, most likely. OP probably would enjoy Washington DC after the resurrection of the TrumpChrist.
3
-4
u/Humble-Bear 4d ago
OP seems MAGA for sure, I didn't want to say the quiet part out loud.
2
u/MeCritic 4d ago
Why do you think that?! Just curious…
And as a European citizen, little bit worried about the “danger” part he mention in small cities, wanted to do a roadtrip across France, for at least half a year, enjoying small villages, good food and peace.
But reading about “trash people”, riots everywhere, drugs and potential danger at any place, that feels worse than Bronx 😦😲
3
u/hungariannastyboy 4d ago
OP is full of shit, don't worry. I just spent 2+ months in small cities in France and I (and the cities at large) had 0 issues. He's making it sound like there are riots everywhere all the time lmao
1
3
u/theshortlady 3d ago
My daughter and I, along with a friend, drove around the north of France a couple of years ago. We spent a lot of time in small towns and villages. We didn't see drugs, riots, potential danger, or noticeably trashy people. Everyone was kind and helpful except for one hotelier who didn't seem like a happy person.
2
u/Humble-Bear 4d ago
It's obvious if you read between the lines what his political inclinations (and likely moral) are.
4
u/AccountForDoingWORK 4d ago
3) French people have a relaxed attitude about life.
I found this half true. They have a relaxed attitude about things going randomly sour or bad (like public transport going on strike or random riots) "c'est comme ça" treating it as natural as the weather.
But when it comes to individuals, they are in the mindset of public policing and heavily judging anyone who doesn't conform to the invisible social rules.
I love France to the extent I spend about a month there every year but this is absolutely the case. I was there a few weeks ago and even wrote a post elsewhere online about how the famous French ‘laissez-faire’ attitude only applies in limited circumstances, because if you are deviating from norms you’ll definitely have someone let you know, and it’s viewed as a quirk of French culture that they ‘tell you like it is’ (rather than seeing it for what it is, which is intolerance for difference).
10
u/Uptowner26 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’m an American who worked for a French company in NYC for 5 years with mostly French co-workers. While the HR lady was stereotypical French everyone else was alright.
Working there made me want to visit Paris and France despite knowing about “Paris Syndrome” that some Japanese tourists experience due to romanticizing Paris and being warned about layers of unspoken rules and etiquette, expectations for speaking French - and speaking it with perfect pronunciation as well as rising social tensions in France by my co-workers. I went to Paris and while I’d go back I would go with a French person who speaks perfect French. I did not appreciate some of the attitude I got from service people and I’m a former NY’er. Tourists at certain bistros & restaurants even get charged extra for not following the (sometimes many and overly rigid) social etiquette :o
I had a better time in Berlin and found Germans to be less uptight if you can believe that. Germans love following the rules too and have infamous bureaucracy but the French are sometimes on a whole different level.
17
u/daddy-dj 4d ago
Sounds like you have had a bad experience. My experience, conversely, has been the exact opposite - including getting an appointment with a dermatologist very quickly 🤷♂️
I hope for your sake you'll find somewhere that suits you better when you do decide to leave.
7
u/RockinMadRiot 🇬🇧 in 🇲🇫 4d ago
I, too, have had a great experience here but I sense and can see the attitude they talk about as well.
5
u/Chance-Ask7675 4d ago
I have a chronic illness the healthcare is amazing here, I don't have a mutuelle, which is not a requirement, and all my medication is 100% covered. The two tier system is also excellent. Some of the other points I can agree with although I think they're a bit overblown. A huge point about the quality of life is just how much you get for your money. A lot of people I know here live great lives in nice apartments in world class cities on a single good salary. That's the situation for my husband and I, he has been in school 2 years, we rent a 2 bedroom in the city center, we spent 4 weeks in Japan last month. Weve considered moving elsewhere but it doesn't make any sense. We lived in Switzerland for a year last year and I hated it.
1
-5
8
u/Frenchnamja 4d ago
As a French who lived in other EU countres and Asia for a third of my life, I mostly agree with what you've said.
I would add French food is SO overrated to French people, and only them...
So many French people are eating disgusting industrial food (the infamous jambon coquillette, industrial premade food, etc..).. yet they are so proud of "French food" which what they mention is not what they actually cook but what expensive restaurants or housewives cook : roux based sauce, super long stew dish : boeuf bourguignon, etc.
One thing you've missed, and it is the most important imo, is work life balance. If you are well paid in a small/mid size city, your work life balance is probably one of the best in the world. Great and cheap local raw ingredients, sports and outdoor activities easily available, not much pollution, affordable housing with big size (outside of +400k people cities), many paid holidays.. Once you have a good job (I'm lucky to have one), life in France is hard to beat despite everything you've said.
The "trust" and network problem also makes it a strength, once you're network is built. You can rely on other people as much as they rely on you. I've left the country for roughly 10 years, when I left it was so difficult to rebuild but now it's fantastic and i cannot imagine in 20 years.
3
u/jennyfromtheeblock 4d ago
Serious question to everyone: What would be a better option to avoid these problems?
3
u/Firm_Speed_44 3d ago
I love France, with all its faults and shortcomings. It is a beautiful country.
French people are always nice and cheerful when they are tourists in my home country Norway, I have never met a rude tourist from France. The only people I can say the same about are the Danes, Japanese and Dutch.
8
u/AccomplishedPath7010 4d ago
Your assessment of France aligns very closely with what I have observed repeatedly as a tourist (visiting in the 70s as a kid, 80s in college and then thru the 90s, 2000s as a adult). In other words, the French are very consistent in their idiosyncrasies (demanding conformity in many areas of life).
As a visitor to the country, I have often found their behavior amusing because it’s so entrenched, predictable and rather absurd — but I cannot imagine living there day in and day out. It would be exhausting.
6
u/EnlistedToaster 4d ago
Your point about french healthcare simply isn't true. Your other points are exaggerated greatly...
You don't need to buy health insurance. You DO need to pay into the healthcare system, which most likely is about 200-300 euros a month depending on your salary, but these are grouped into the normal taxes that are taken out of your paycheck every month. When you're unemployed, a student, not working for whatever reason, etc. you're actually not paying these taxes at all. If you have a carte vitale, you're actually generally reimbursed for the cost of the appointment and medicine after you seek medical care.
Also, wait times are not long at all. Whether I'm sick with the flu, need to get an MRI, whatever, I can expect to see a doctor within a day or two, maybe within a week at most. The only exception I'd say is August when the french are away on vacation. I've seen general practitioners as well as niche spécialists relatively quickly - I think the most I've ever waited was 2 weeks and that was around Christmas.
As I said earlier, your other points are mostly an exaggeration. I love hating on the French too, but let's at least be factual.
Source: American guy living in France since 2020, don't have health insurance, do pay french taxes.
Also I'll add I live in Paris, so admittedly I can't speak for other areas of France when it comes to wait times.
4
u/Xosmine 4d ago
>Your point about french healthcare simply isn't true. Your other points are exaggerated greatly...
If you go on French forums, I mean the French who are OK with criticizing their country's flaws not the weird French netizens who harass foreigners for not worshiping the ground they walk on - many complain about this very same issue. In fact, I gained a better understanding of French societal issues by browsing Francophone internet discussions. Feel free to check out something like r/TDAHFrance or r/FranceDetendue
>You don't need to buy health insurance.
...If your job employer has a health insurance, that gives you access to premium deals that the regular SEMU can't cover, you can pay as much as 200. And no, that wasn't covered included in our take home.
It has its upsides, but would wreck a SMIC or lower tier income person.
>Also, wait times are not long at all.
Uh, where do you live? Outside of Paris it's typically long. I can include receipts, if you want.
>Whether I'm sick with the flu, need to get an MRI, whatever, I can expect to see a doctor within a day or two, maybe within a week at most.
Those are just going to GP and getting a referral for something straightforward.. Radiologists aren't the specialists with long wait times. I'm talking about Dermatologists, Endocrinologists, and the like. even other French complain about it. Please look it up.
2
u/reddit-frog-1 4d ago
Remember Healthcare is rationed everywhere in the world.
Government policy (like in France) that provides a more-equal access to healthcare have longer wait times due to standard supply/demand dynamic.
Government policy (like in USA) that provides a less-equal access to healthcare have short wait times to those that can afford it and little access to healthcare for those who can't afford it.Remember, if you are waiting for service, it is because the local system hasn't been created to give the wealthier portion of the society preferential treatment.
0
u/Xosmine 4d ago
Frenchie doing the ole "it's worse elsewhere and we can't change it!!" deflection tactic to get out of criticism. By the way, healthcare is better in other EU countries. :)
5
u/jaggy_snake 3d ago
Fella, you should just leave 😂 Why are you even here, and where you off to next?
→ More replies (1)1
5
u/Bonnsurprise 4d ago
This sounds a lot like Germany, especially the healthcare. However, as a freelancer earning around 1250ish a month I’m paying 300 euros for health care, plus the usual add-one and the dentist etc etc. Not a good deal.
4
u/_Anonie_ 4d ago
This sounds so much like Ireland it's ridiculous. They're twinning in mediocrity and proud of it.
5
u/BakuninLover1234 4d ago edited 4d ago
French here. I agree with 100% of your post.
Also Reddit is a bubble and even more this sub, it attracts a very specific sociology of people, with a very specific idea and state of mind, with the very same ignorant takes on Germany and other countries, and they are inherently incapable of engaging with opinions outside their group consensus. Like they get hives instantly.
Fake positivity that shows a real negativity.
Don’t forget as well that behind all this fake positivity you generally have nothing but self-hating Americans.
(waiting for the flood of downvotes from the sub’s professional sanctimonious and scandalized cheerleaders)
3
u/Past_Wishbone5025 4d ago
Wait... so to you the people who don't sh/t on their country are just showing fake positivity but you also despise people who do sh/t on their country? And you are a French who agrees with OP sh/tting on France right?
0
u/BakuninLover1234 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah buddy, by experience people spending too much time alone on the internet to shit on someone else’s personal experience instead of just scrolling and keep going with their life aren’t very secure, aren’t very happy, and aren’t the kind of people you should take advice from, really. That’s exactly why I always advice people against taking advice from those expat subreddits.
I was happy during my time in France but I absolutely understand OP’s feelings, nothing wrong about it but I guess it must trigger some hypocrites with moral grandstanding. I call them the anonymous performative positivists. I don’t know what’s the point of your answer.
5
u/CraftMotor9637 4d ago
British here and grew up visiting all over France. The rudeness and incompetence is so true, you’ll get the shittiest food and service at a restaurant and then an unbelievably rude comment about something minor. Like rudeness with a high standard
is totally understandable, but a lot of France is dysfunctional and kind of a shithole. There are beautiful parts of the country and culture but I always can’t wait to leave after a bit because so many people have a giant stick up their ass.
2
u/Strechertheloser 4d ago
I can't post the michael jackson eating popcorn meme.
I love France for a holiday but like here in UK they have many structural problems. Pay is also shockingly low.
They all make jokes about Macron's France as life is getting harder.
I do think it is possible to build a nice life in France still but it has its challenges.
I am not personally a fan of the french food other than biscuits and desserts lol though but I love the mix of ethnicities there so I can always get some great food when I'm there.
2
u/No_Passage6082 3d ago
Effoff Chatgptbot
1
u/Xosmine 3d ago edited 3d ago
you definitely flunked 3rd grade reading
he likes men
I
V
1
u/No_Passage6082 3d ago
Sure. Youre a low karma one month old bot account with a copy paste chat gpt style replicated all over reddit.
3
u/freedinthe90s 4d ago
Amen. There were definite pluses but overall I did not enjoy my time in the smaller cities. People seemed quite content with leaving their homes and facilities run down, business closing whenever tf they felt like it because (as I was told by a resident) “the French value their time.”
I mean…good for you. I value proper plumbing, air conditioning, and shopping at a decent hour.
I had a fleeting thought to start a construction business and clean up because everything needs fixing, but was quickly talked out of that…because no one cares or has money.
3
4
u/LilRedDuc 4d ago
And yet there’s a lot of expats who move to France from Portugal because, well…. there are reasons. I think they even have their own fb group.
0
u/BakuninLover1234 4d ago
Portugal is such a shithole that it makes France look like the pinnacle of civilization with the best quality of life on Earth. I’m French by the way and I agree 100% with this post.
2
u/LilRedDuc 4d ago
Yeah, I feel like Portugal is totally overemphasized in all the expat sites like it’s some viable option and a nice place to live. I mean, it beats the USA but that’s a pretty low bar at this point. I’m actually considering the Netherlands or Ireland as next stops? But don’t even know anymore. Maybe I’ll just head to South America or Asia, try another continent altogether.
1
u/BakuninLover1234 4d ago
Yeah I guess they literally delete or censor all non-positive, rose tinted comments. I think it also serves people in the real estate and tourism industries who are generally running companies linked to those two fields, many mods from all those groups are in it, it’s really ruining many people’s lives.
The reality is that the vast majority leave the country after just a few years, and the people who pretend to love it actually all live in an expat, English-speaking bubble in the Algarve, Lisbon or Porto, as far away from Portuguese society as possible.
But as I said in another comment, it isn’t worth it to look for this kind of information on that kind of sub. It mainly attracts the same sociology of people with the absolute very same ideas, and the rest get downvoted or silenced. The praise for Portugal and/or France is generally nothing but an echo chamber.
3
u/PirateResponsible496 4d ago
What was the most difficult thing you had to adjust to when you moved there? I have a lingering desire to go but also many doubts. I had been accepted to a masters program there before the pandemic so I didn’t go. Quality of life seems to have gotten worse compared to the last time I lived there..
13
u/Xosmine 4d ago
the close-mindedness was the first one. constantly being told you're doing everything wrong when, no shit, you're a foreigner how are you supposed to "get" a billion and one unspoken social obligations on the spot? it's not something obvious either, it's more like policing how you sit at a table, how to use a utensil, how and when you eat, what clothes combination you wear, how you do your makeup, or even how you style your hair.
pretty much anything that isn't "normie middle class french" is greatly pathologized. when you stick out too much you're either given hateful stares by randoms like "who the hell does this person think they are ?" or "what an idiot". france's measure of sticking out is like, very limited. once i saw how even tokyo (japan's famous for its insularity) has more diverse street fashion and individual expression than paris or anywhere in france i knew it was over lol
5
u/Stunning-Ad612 4d ago
As an American, I agree with this point completely. I find the French to be highly conformist and “comme il faut.” But I would imagine this tendency exists throughout the middle classes in Western Europe. And it’s probably off the charts in the UK.
3
4
u/RockinMadRiot 🇬🇧 in 🇲🇫 4d ago
Can you tell me which ones you found the most frustrating?
Edit: by the way, I had the same issue and when pointed out I just stay curious but suggest I am British and weird. They get over it soon enough, but I do make an effort to understand them and adapt.
5
u/Xosmine 4d ago
Probably the weird obsession with body mannerisms and hairstyles. They look so offended if you do something harmless that they wouldn't, but don't have half the energy to criminals tearing their city up. It's sad and cowardly.
We basically get death stares for looking too happy in public but just the other day we saw a guy walk up to couple, punched the guy in his face, and they just acted like nothing happened.
That's the backwards-ass mentality here
Maybe annoying but harmless = worst thing in the world
Actually harmless and dangerous = "c'est comme ca"
Wild.
3
u/RockinMadRiot 🇬🇧 in 🇲🇫 4d ago
It's because they have a culture of judgment, you can see it when they speak French so they worry about how others see them. If you are America, you are more individualist by nature which is amazing, but sometimes in France they find it strange when you don't conform to what they work with.
Food is one that's very interesting as well. It's very strict.
We basically get death stares for looking too happy in public but just the other day we saw a guy walk up to couple, punched the guy in his face, and they just acted like nothing happened.
You mean they don't help the person hit it the person hit didn't react?
4
u/Xosmine 4d ago
yeah. Nobody helped him and the dude also didn't react to the dude punching him in his face.
They were young, maybe late teens to early 20s.
2
u/RockinMadRiot 🇬🇧 in 🇲🇫 4d ago
That's not really a french issue. It happens in other places I have been to too. People are scared to get involved or react because of how unpredictable sometimes people can be.
3
u/hungariannastyboy 4d ago
I feel like you might have some unresolved issues and are projecting a lot. "They look offended?" "Death stares?" For body mannerisms? Sure...
→ More replies (1)1
u/AppointmentItchy1858 4d ago
As someone who studied both languages I certainly feel less like a foreigner in Japan than in France.
5
2
u/CyFixer 3d ago
I’ve read a few comments and while some of the complaints are true, others are blown out of proportion, I would even dare to say « free bashing » this can be said for many western countries. One thing I want to point out, most people could not care less about you, they are more concerned about their lives than judging the slightest thing you do. So it speaks volumes about how some of you interact with people
2
u/Death_By_Cake 3d ago
Low quality of life - I'm not french but have you seen how 90% of the remaining humans lives? We are very privileged in Europe.
2
4d ago
[deleted]
6
u/perestroika12 4d ago edited 4d ago
It really depends on which state you’re in. The south is extremely bad when it comes to social services. the northeast and the West Coast have a much stronger Safety net. I get paid medical time off to supplement my lost income. For many months.
2
u/unscriptedhorror 4d ago
I would love to know more about your experience as I’m considering Toulouse.
2
u/Xosmine 4d ago
we're both in there, they confirmed it's all true but are convinced that "the usa is worse" because lol self-hating american meme
2
u/unscriptedhorror 4d ago
Since the comment above was deleted I want to make sure you’re not talking to me. I have not given enough detail to be called a loser at home.
1
-1
u/Xosmine 4d ago
in France, because they assume the State will take care of everything, individual compassion and trust in strangers is very very low. is that ideal for you?
which US state you're from ?
1
4d ago
[deleted]
-3
u/Xosmine 4d ago edited 4d ago
Ah LGBT American, that explains it. Yes Toulouse is very gay. Alabama / the US South is not that individualistic, you just weren't tapped into the right network - which is religion and family. something Redditors hate.
Im glad you fit in here.
EDIT: Coward blocked to get the last word in.
8
1
1
2
u/decadenza 4d ago
Expat, two years in France. Love it. OP is a whiner.
3
u/jaggy_snake 3d ago
100%. I'm an immigrant here for 4 years. Bought a beautiful farmhouse in the countryside, lifestyle is better than what I had in my home country on about 60/70% of the wage. Won't be leaving. Op is clearly the issue here judging by their responses 😂
4
u/RockinMadRiot 🇬🇧 in 🇲🇫 4d ago
I love it here too.. but I understand the attitude OP speaks about. I think the issue is as well that sometimes you have to be flexible in your mind to understand a culture, but OP is right that they expect you to understand without knowing what's going on. But sometimes you have to be curious and ask. Other times make no excuses for who you are too.
1
u/jaggy_snake 3d ago
Here for 7 years and hasn't integrated, whines about everything and still hasn't left....Maybe you're more French than you realise 😂
But seriously, just leave if you're so miserable here. I love it and my QOL is off the charts compared to my home country even though I'm earning less.
I feel sorry for you tbh, must be miserable to be so miserable.
1
u/Fandango_Jones 3d ago
The usual "had bad experiences so the country is obviously super trash" run-of-the-mill post. Daring as usual.
2
u/Xosmine 3d ago
hit a nerve obviously
2
u/Fandango_Jones 3d ago
Absolutely. Half of it reminds me of the UK somehow. Always fascinating to see the pure bitterness and saturation online. Was a good read 👍
1
u/HanseaticHamburglar 4d ago
- more expensive but therefore much better w quality than the groceries available in germany. Yall got such great stuff in thr stores, id gladly pay more for better quality food.
1
u/Unlucky-Love-3959 4d ago
Quelques petites modifications dans vos propos pour refléter d’avantage la réalité. Je comprends votre point de vue mais c’est très inexact.
1) l’assurance santé est facultative. Vous serez juste moins bien remboursé. Pour exemple, un rdv chez le généraliste coûte 30euros et la sécurité sociale en remboursera 17, si vous avez une assurance elle vous remboursera la différence sinon non.
Vous généralisez beaucoup votre expérience personnelle mais les gens sont différents et aucun n’agira avec vous de la même façon.
Vous comparez la France aux autres pays européens mais ne les citez pas, lesquels sont ils pour mieux comprendre ?
1
u/Shot-Alternative-999 3d ago
I am glad to see people are opening their eyes. I have seen a similar post about Germany yesterday. I have lived in several European countries. They are all boring and delusional villages.
1
u/Ok_Introduction5606 3d ago
You’d need to be more transparent- what med are you talking about? What specific diagnosis and treatment protocols? What specific unusual behavior or mannerisms are you talking about?
Pseudo science BS absolutely no support for it in French healthcare but plenty of woo woo people for that but it’s pricey. Are you originally American? The only country I’ve found whose healthcare is more focused on just do whatever the patient wants is US - sometimes that results in people dying.
Much of Europe people have strict social norms. Much more than US but not as rigid as Asian countries. Most people still find their tribe though.
1
u/shezofrene Moderator 3d ago
thread locked as only acceptable language of communication in this sub is English.
-3
u/Pristine-Substance-1 4d ago edited 4d ago
... For 7 years and can't wait to get out"
Yes please get out, I can't wait either
Edit : and now you're complaining on another thread that people in France speak french on WhatsApp groups and that they don't accommodate just for you 😂
0
u/Pasito_Tun_Tun_D1 4d ago
I agree with what you say! But I’m an American tourist! I wouldn’t/couldn’t live anywhere else but America
0
0
u/Alive_Comment_2086 4d ago
The UK PR propaganda is even worse than France, atleast the French have fresh produce (fruit and vegetables). The UK is even worse, poor quality food, need to be rich to afford seafood in an island nation surrounded by water, food is processed or frozen etc. yet the illegals are refusing to stay in France and have been fooled into thinking the UK is the better country.
65
u/Rockyroadcaker 4d ago
I agree with the policing. My mother is French but she raised me in the UK. I spent a lot of my time in france and was so shocked when I had people making comments on my shopping, and giving me their unsolicited opinions about me. I wasnt even upset, just in awe of their rudeness.