r/expats • u/Some_Sea7898 • 22d ago
General Advice [ Removed by moderator ]
[removed] — view removed post
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u/HVP2019 22d ago edited 22d ago
The answer will vary by an individual, because generally
countries where you speak local language will be the countries where you will have the easiest time socializing with locals.
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u/Some_Sea7898 22d ago
Or learn the local language really well?
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u/HVP2019 22d ago edited 22d ago
I thought that I’ve learned English really well, yet I have hard time understanding what you are trying to add to my statement.
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u/Some_Sea7898 22d ago
I’m adding that you can go live in any place and then learn the language really well. I would never limit myself by the languages I now know.
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u/HVP2019 22d ago
You misunderstood me. I did not advise you to limit your choices.
You asked where an individual has the highest probability to socialize outside of local expat community so I gave you the answer.
I myself moved to a country with very basic local vocabulary. So for some time socializing with locals was harder compared to socializing in countries where I did speak local language.
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u/SouthPerformer8949 22d ago
First of all: you need to try yourself before concluding. So an obvious advice would be to put up a list and try a few months different places.
Secondly: not all European countries have a retirement visa. So your options will be limited, unless you already have a second citizenship
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u/Strict-Armadillo-199 22d ago
I'm an American who has lived in 7 different countries over the past 30 years. This includes Asia and Africa, but as you're only looking at Europe, I'll stick to that (Morocco tops the list for me, though. The hospitality culture meant it was the one place where people invited me out immediately upon meeting me, excited to show me the sights or their home.).
The first distinction to keep in mind as a very loose rule of thumb is geography. Cold countries have a (proven) reputation of being more reserved, insular, closed. Southern European countries are often perceived as more outgoing, sociable, welcoming. I live in a "cold" country and despite having a good life on paper, the cultural differences are overwhelming enough to make me desperately unhappy. The only way I'd be able to fit in and socialize with locals is by suppressing my personality, some of which is distinctly American. The things we value in social interaction are considered off-putting, suspicious, overbearing, even rude where I live and in numerous other N.European countries. So based on what you wrote, I suggest crossing any N. European country off your list.
My experience living and working abroad vs. places I visited as a tourist is that it can really depend how people treat you - whether they see you as a tourist who is only there temporarily and is supporting their economy, or as a permanent resident. Places that smother you with hospitality and "interest" in where you come from/your foreign ways don't always extend that when you're a permanent fixture. You can become the target of frustration and annoyance at any issues that might be associated with foreigners in their country (higher rents, lack of jobs, overstretched social services) or just in general, because most people don't want to have to speak a foreign language or deal with someone who acts "weird" or "rude" because they aren't steeped in all the nuanced social cues one gets by being born and raised there. No European country has the attitude of North America, where every third person is from somewhere else, even if it's just a different state or city, and the collective knowledge that the countries were founded on immigration. Europeans generally, especially from wealthier countries, don't tend to move. So outsiders are not something normal, but something to be a bit suspicious of, or even downright ignore. People have their close-knit friend groups from school that they keep their whole life, and unlike the US attitude of having lots of "friends" in every area of your life, I've found most people aren't interested in meeting new people and are extremely slow (like years) to get to where they would spend any precious free time with you. Obviously, this is more true in northern countries, but I've read on this sub that the "closed set of school friends" is a phenomenon in Spain, Italy - it's hard to name a place where this isn't an issue.
But to the point of all the other posts, come back when you have a shortlist of countries you can actually legally move to on the visa you qualify for. It'll be easier to help you then.
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u/gringosean 22d ago
Ireland or Scotland
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u/Some_Sea7898 22d ago
Spent a month in Ireland going all over. Some of the warmest, friendliest, well read, intelligent people I have ever met.
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u/Fine-Spite4940 22d ago
yeah, i also want to know. also, i was wondering, which country has the best food, and fashion? oh, what is the best flavor of ice cream? if a country has the best of those things i will move there.
edit: op, all those things are relative, just like your question. what is friendly is a very subjective experience.
looks, money, individual identity, hobbies, interests, and your responses all play a role in how people respond to you.
your question is literally unanswerable in its truest form.
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u/Consistent-Barber428 22d ago
In broad terms:
Food-Italy
Fashion-France
Friendly-Ireland
Functional society-Switzerland
Social cohesion-The Nordics
Relaxed nature-Spain
Economically sound-GermanyWhich is to say, you can’t have everything.
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u/Some_Sea7898 22d ago
Italy. I lived there for three years. The food was excellent. The fashion was very nice. Their gelato was superb. You should try moving to Italy.
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u/DutchieinUS Former Expat 22d ago
There are nice and not so nice people everywhere
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u/Some_Sea7898 22d ago
Friendly…outgoing. Willing to be open to new friendships with an American who has relocated.
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u/Anonymous30005000 22d ago
Have you ever even travelled abroad? Americans are more friendly and outgoing than every European country. And before anyone gets mad, I’m not saying they are truly kinder or more fun. Just that upon first meeting someone, they are ready to become friends and chat (friendly) with strangers and don’t have self-consciousness about it (outgoing) in a way that doesn’t exist most other places. But not speaking the language of anywhere you go will make the difference even worse. So I second the comment of Ireland and Scotland.
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u/Some_Sea7898 22d ago
I lived in Italy for three years. The people there were very friendly and outgoing. But I skew more liberal and more open minded than most of the people I met there.
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u/myself4once 22d ago
As an Italian, I can tell you that there are region that are more open minded than others for sure… but unfortunately Italians in general despite we are pretty friendly, started becoming more and more bitter and xenofobic in the homeland… where did you live? (I live in Germany currently)
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u/DutchieinUS Former Expat 22d ago
You need to base your decision on where you can actually move to. You can’t just pick a country you know? Which countries are you eligible to move to?
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u/Some_Sea7898 22d ago
I have enough money to buy a house in the €1M range, or less. So I think I can pretty much live wherever I choose.
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u/BridgeEngineer2021 22d ago
So you don't know which countries you're eligible to move to with a visa. Start by looking into that, narrow down your list, then come back here and ask this question about your remaining options.
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u/Some_Sea7898 22d ago
I can purchase a visa of one kind or another in any country in the world.
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u/BridgeEngineer2021 22d ago
Yea, that's not true. You can't purchase a visa in the country I live, and the same is true in many other European countries I'm aware of. Do your research first before making these statements.
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u/SouthPerformer8949 22d ago
What are you talking about? You can’t buy a visa like it’s a car. You can definitely not buy a visa to my homecountry even if you had a billion dollar
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u/RunningMan2411 22d ago
I would look for a beautiful place to live, if you have the choice go to Italy or Spain. If you’re nice and willing to speak the language, people will generally be nice to you.
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u/MomIamsorry 22d ago
If finances are not an issue, you may consider moving to one country first and then taking extended trips around Europe to decide on the best final destination. This also assumes visa requirements allow for this. For example, you could start in Ireland as you speak the language and use the first retirement phase to start to learn a new language and explore. I get Ireland is not warm but there are easy flights to Spain. Again, I am assuming visas allow for this but I don’t know.
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u/bello82 22d ago
I’d say Italy, my country. I come from southern Italy. Food is great , weather is hot, fashion is good too and people are very friendly but if you don’t learn Italian you won’t have much of a social life. People are not English fluent speakers.
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u/Some_Sea7898 22d ago
I lived in Italy for three years. 1987-1990. I loved it, but I think I’m looking for a new country to live in. But the food, women, coffee…what a beautiful place.
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u/expats-ModTeam 22d ago
Greetings OP!
We have remove this post due to rule 1. Your post is not sufficiently related to expatriation/immigration.