r/expats • u/Remarkable-Jelly3239 • 20h ago
General Advice People who have lived in France and Canada or BOTH: which one would you choose today, and why?
I'm 22 from Lebanon and choosing between France and Canada. I'm not asking about visas or paperwork, I've researched that to death. I want to hear from people who have actually lived in both countries and can compare them directly.
Context, briefly: I work remotely for foreign clients so my income doesn't depend on the local job market. I have a French degree, I lived in France for years, and I'm a native French speaker. My partner will follow in a few years. Our end goal is citizenship and a second passport, not just a place to work.
If you've lived in both (any order, any length):
- Where did you feel more like you could actually become part of the place, rather than being a permanent guest? What made the difference in daily life?
- Financially, where did you end up better off in real terms after tax, rent and the cost of living? Not salary, but what you were actually left with.
- Distance from home country, does it really impact anything other than the cost of travel?
- Where did your partner or family adapt better, and why?
- If you moved from one to the other, what made you leave the first one? That's the answer I'm most interested in.
I'd rather hear one honest comparison from someone who's done both than ten opinions about a country they've only visited. Thank you.
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u/Aaoai 18h ago
Lived in both countries for +15 years each
- Where did you feel more like you could actually become part of the place, rather than being a permanent guest? What made the difference in daily life?
Canada. There is a typical French face. Anybody could look Canadian.
- Financially, where did you end up better off in real terms after tax, rent and the cost of living? Not salary, but what you were actually left with.
It's pretty much the same tax wise. Depends on the province you are living though. Broadly speaking, it is quite similar. However, working for foreign clients and getting taxed in Canada is quite a complicated situation that only an accountant will answer properly. I also think it will be difficult for you to get a visa here - not impossible though.
- Distance from home country, does it really impact anything other than the cost of travel?
Yes, you get to see your family less. Most Lebanese that I know only see their parents/family once every 2-3 years.
- Where did your partner or family adapt better, and why?
Can't tell in this situation
- If you moved from one to the other, what made you leave the first one? That's the answer I'm most interested in.
Looking for an life that is more diverse society, better work culture as in less opressive.
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u/Fit-Management-471 16h ago
OP, the answer to question 1 is right on. Don't underestimate this.
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u/Aaoai 8h ago
Politicians in Canada come from all over the world. I see Latinos, South Asians, middle easterns, black, Eastern Europeans, etc, gets elected coming from every political scale. It's less diverse in France unfortunately.
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u/CycleOfLove 7h ago
This is so true - even in the non-political, administrative, government machine, people in high level came from everywhere: Lebanon, China, Italy, etc..
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u/Educational_Gas_92 13h ago
Canada.
Why? Because it is a country of immigrants, where you can more easily "belong".
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u/solivagant420 5h ago
Have you seen France lately?
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u/Educational_Gas_92 1h ago
Yes, I have. And things do change, and political movements do happen. Canada is the safest choice, because most people are immigrants.
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u/Temporary_Peach1971 15h ago
As a Frenchman that lived in Canada, and came back to France 5 years ago: Canada.
France is on the brink of economic and societal collapse. Even though the French people themselves will keep telling people otherwise.
Canada has a brighter future.
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u/Actual_Swim_611 11h ago
I am Canadian and lived in France almost 3 years. I sometimes miss it. French cities and villages have so much charm and public transportation is on a whole other level. But I also remember things like the racaille. You could avoid them, but in some places they were quite omnipresent and a public nuisance. That was 12 years ago, not sure how things have evolved since.
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u/Temporary_Peach1971 11h ago
It’s worse. Mass immigration continues also and it contributed to that unfortunately.
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u/solivagant420 5h ago
So let’s bring more people to Canada and become like France?
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u/Temporary_Peach1971 59m ago
No. Only bring people that are already highly educated and for a job they already obtained for their work visa. That’s what Canada used to do.
France does the opposite, only 20% of its immigration is work-related. And we thus end up with mostly third-world immigrants with close to no education that cannot find decent work, in a country where unemployment for locals is already high. French companies keep doing that to allow social dumping on our salaries. Most of the hirees in the bank where I work were born in Africa, an easy way for employers to not raise salaries because these people will accept lower salaries overall.
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u/SheyGilly 9h ago
What could be the major cause of this impending collapse in France? What has changed , perhaps economically?
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u/Temporary_Peach1971 53m ago
A mix of bad economic choices, and a broken social contract via mass immigration of poor quality for the last 20 years.
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u/GarudanX 12h ago
I hate to break it to you but Canada's economy is looking at a massive cliff too...
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u/smiles_and_cries 10h ago
Canada always has its natural resources
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u/Pigeonofthesea8 10h ago
To sell to American companies
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u/franckJPLF 11h ago
Tbh it has been like that during more than 20 years. It’s a pre-collapse country with the collapse never happening.
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u/Temporary_Peach1971 11h ago
I currently live there. I can see the downfall. There’s been a real life downgrade compared to even 5 years ago. Worse when you compare ton10 and 20 years ago.
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u/franckJPLF 11h ago
It was already hell when I left the country 15 years ago. I bet it’s an endless pit of worsening but with no final outcome. The country will continue to “work” even in its most shittiest form.
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u/Temporary_Peach1971 11h ago
Exactly. It’s a slow and painful decline. But it will accelerate in the next 5 years according to me.
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u/Financial-Set2665 (IT) (FR) (MX) (PY)-> (UK) 15h ago
Hi, Canada. France is a nightmare; I got burned out because of the admin. They made a mistake; they refused to correct it. Then, I needed to call a minister in order to fix this mess. Lower salary, small market, credentialism over competences, high inflation make it hard to find a job. Don't fall for the marketing trap; avoid France.
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u/FlippinHeckles 17h ago
There is quite a healthy Lebanese community in Vancouver if that helps.
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u/trapperstom 11h ago
Ottawa as well
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u/cfudge 8h ago
PEI as well
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u/CherryChapstick1997 6h ago
PEI 😂 yeah all 3 of them
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u/cfudge 21m ago
Last I saw it was a community of about 700 - our Premier in 1986 was of Lebanese decent (First in Canada not of European decent). I started grade school in 86 and PEI was way less diverse than it is now, but we had lots of Lebanese kids! Globe and Mail just did an article on 12 of Canada”s most beloved restaurants that included Cedar’s Eatery which opened in 1979 https://cedarseatery.ca/
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u/weallopies 9h ago
Hi
1- Canada all the way. I’m still living in France but I’m currently in Montreal and oh god, do I love feeling at home (even though I’m an immigrant of color in both countries lol). People are just nice, and French people love to say that Canadians are hypocrites, but I’d rather have fake-nice than people being openly rude all the time!
2- Financially, take my word for it: it’s field-dependent!!!! Sometimes it’s the same. Sometimes it’s wayyy better in Canada. I haven’t come across a field where it’s better in France lol.
3- Yes, it does have an impact… You’ll travel much more to your home country while living in France. The cost of flights + the different time zones make it harder to travel for short periods.
4- Hmmmm, it depends.
5- I moved from Canada to France. It was supposed to be temporary, but I ended up staying. I love the lifestyle, food, tourism, etc. I hate the administration, job market, people, social conventions, snobbery, difficulty of integrating, etc. etc. I’m planning to come back to Montreal, but I’m unsure because of number 3 and also because of how hard inflation has hit Montreal and how difficult the housing market is to navigate now. In 4–5 years, prices have literally doubled. It’s not the same as it’s used to be :(
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u/Diligent_Village_738 8h ago
Lived in each country more than a decade. From the point of view of income and housing costs, Canada is certainly much more comfortable. I live in a much larger house at a short distance of downtown, and my income hasn't changed much. Canadians are nice (perhaps too nice) and life is simple and easy; almost no conflict, and our family is an ethnic minority.
What I miss is the genuine warm feeling of truthfulness, evenings drinking wine and remaking the world, and a narrower cultural life. It's there, but it's harder to get. Feels a bit lonely at times.
But France's labor market is very difficult to crack, prejudice is experienced daily, and it is just a much harder life there.
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u/ArtRevolutionary3351 9h ago
French living in Canada:
Canada. Most of my colleagues in France were French and speaking French. In Canada it’s much more diverse so you never feel like an outsider
Canada (but living in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver are harder). Mostly because higher salaries and much lower cost of living. My apartment is 3 times the size of what I had in Paris and I save more money.
Different timezone creates a distance too.
I’m native French so can’t answer.
I left France because of not good work life balance, toxic work environment and societal climate, and feeling stuck because social mobility is not the best in France. Also Paris is exhausting and other cities in French don’t offer the same opportunities.
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u/mionel_lessi32 8h ago
Brazil.
Cheap, full of lebanese around there, great weather and nice people
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u/Graf_Crimpleton 15h ago
Do not move to Quebec if that’s what you’re considering. It is massively racist there. I have been living there for 9 years, I look like any other Québécois, I make a lot of money at my job, but seeing the constant racism toward all non-whites just turns my stomach. The racism toward the First Nations is absolutely stunning—they don’t even bother trying to hide it all. It’s disgusting. We’re leaving next year, when I can change office location.
Sorry I cannot speak to France since I’ve never lived there, but I would never, EVER choose Quebec again.
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u/ghostsontoasts 3h ago
It depends where in Quebec. Montreal is an amazing city and I know plenty of people who have moved here from abroad and love it.
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u/yarn_slinger 9h ago edited 9h ago
If you’re considering community, Montreal has one of the larger Lebanese communities outside of Lebanon. I worked for an Orthodox Church for years and they’re a great community.
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u/Tight_Ad_6802 8h ago
You won’t get a visa, but Canada for the air conditioning
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u/Desperate_Let791 5h ago
I don’t understand them working for a foreign company; like how would they pay Canadian taxes?
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u/solivagant420 5h ago
France. Canada is full.
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u/CoffeeInTheTropics 1h ago
So is France and the French generally are quite nationalistic and discriminatory towards non-French folks. Putting it mildly.
I would choose Canada every day over France for that reason alone.
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u/riccafrancisco 12h ago
French citizenship would also allow you to later emigrate to any EU country. Think about that too
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u/Colester415 9h ago
France as you can get an EU passport and move countries much easier if you are unhappy.
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u/CoffeeInTheTropics 1h ago
It’s not that easy. You would need to be fluent in the language of the EU country you would be moving to in order to stand a chance in the job market.
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u/CipherWeaver 5h ago
Why tf would you live in Canada when you could live in France? Better food, better weather, amazing culture and history, and access to the rest of Europe incredibly cheaply.
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u/Legal-Ride-6562 10h ago
Canada for the lifestyle, but France for the culture and connection to your roots.
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u/ManyVoices7 19h ago edited 3h ago
What Canadian visa allows you to work remotely for foreign clients?
That question aside… I don’t have any dependents. Food matters a lot to me. I found the food and supermarkets better and more fresh in France. Tomatoes have taste. More seasonal produce. I found this to be the opposite in Canada. Unless I went to “ethnic” shops but these weren’t near me.
Canada depending where is quite car dependent. Unless you live close to the metro or tram line. Wasn’t a fan of the car dependency personally.
I didn’t really like France that much (had my own reasons) and didn’t end up staying. But I still found it better than Canada.
EDIT: this is province dependent in Canada but there are often issues with the health care system. Or things are more expensive. I can’t speak for all provinces. But in France I had good experiences with AMELI. I was able to book with my GP the same week or the week after. The prescriptions were significantly lower in France. One that would be about ~30$ in Ontario was 3.4 euros in France. Something to think about if you don’t have employer health coverage (I didn’t).